Series 8

[Asclepius]

I watched Series 8 back in 1999. Unlike Series 1-7 (watched at home), I watched Series 8 largely in other places. A computer lab one night, when we tuned the CCTV in to actual TV, presumably some friends’ rooms that were affluent enough to have TV, etc. I can’t remember the details, sadly.

Series 1-6 I’d watched repeatedly, repeatedly on video. I’d then taped them to audio and listened to them almost compulsively. I made my own little tape covers using MS Publisher.

I’ve really enjoyed the cast commentaries on them in recent months. I’ve been listening to them on youtube while I do other things (walking places, driving…) and as I can remember the episodes so well, it works without the visuals.

Series 7 mostly worked for me, too. I’d seen it and remembered it well enough. I may have re-watched some.

And then the Series 8 commentaries came and they didn’t work for me – I couldn’t remember the stories and scenes well at all, so I started watching them again, consoling myself that I do remember Cassandra being good, at least.

But jay-hey-sus christ, this is awful, awful TV. The first three in particular. It’s an awful combination of the plots being both weak and convoluted and the jokes being signposted from about a mile beforehand.

I think if I were to create an example, it’d be like taking Cat’s

“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head”

into

“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head. It’s my pubic hair” or something.

And the denouement of Back into the Red III is Rimmer about to get r@ped in jail.

And suddenly we’re meant to also be getting our laughs out of women who are either a bit chubby, or a bit old and very much of colour. What the f’s that about?

I’ve made it through, though. I’ve made it to Cassandra. This one does work. Its plot works, there are some big smiles (if not laughs). But I do remember from 25 years ago, Krytie and Pete both being absolute cringe. I’ll persevere, but….wow…what happened…

it makes the resurgence since Back to Earth even more miraculous. I like BtE despite its limitations, and the Dave era has continued to be pretty good overall…

Topic

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

They’ve only been dead for centuries!

Really? You’re gonna trust Rimmer to do the maths? Rimmer?

[Flap Jack]

I never got the impression that was terror, I thought…

[Ian Symes]

I have managed to turn a thread complaining about Series VIII away from that topic.
Have I won G&T?

The inverse of Symes’s Law.

[Dave]

I’m trying to think of the first time we see Rimmer be a complete coward and I’m not sure I can think of a solid example in the earlier series. Even in Polymorph he kinda adopts a karate pose to fruitlessly appear threatening. The Last Day is the first one that comes to mind and in his defense he just insulted someone he didn’t realize could kill him.

I do wonder whether this is just a function of the earlier series having fewer external threats to deal with, compared to the monsters and enemies that only really begin with Polymorph and The Last Day and then become more commonplace from IV onwards. 

There just isn’t that much for him to run away from in series 1 and 2.

[Warbodog]

[Dave]

Yeah, I thought of Queeg but I don’t think he falls into that bracket as Rimmer initially welcomes him as an improved version of Holly before realising he’s so strict.

[Asclepius]

Chose to carry on with Krytie TV today.

Couldn’t continue with it. Where Lister and Rimmer realise they’re watching Kochanski in the shower, and settling in to see everything…

Just too grim. I didn’t think it would be less watchable than Timewave, but I absolutely hated this. Morally worthless.

[Asclepius]

It makes me think back to Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers where Lister talks about Cat picking up the fundamentals of driving the ore transport truck pretty quickly, and soon after being able to pull off all sorts of stunts in it. 

The difference bring that, in the book, Cat is at the controls making that happen. In the TV series, he is dancing and the machine appears to be following him. And then all of the machined follow him. As do the teeth.

[Flap Jack]

As the Blue Midget dance takes place in a simulation which really behaves more like a shared dream, you could argue that Cat making all of the shuttles dance is equivalent to him mastering the ore transport vehicle… kind of. It’s like he knows on a subconscious level that they’re actually in a simulation which is driven by their own expectations and understandings, so he is able to bend reality to his whim through sheer willpower and self-belief. He fully believes that he’s cool enough to make the Blue Midgets dance, and so he does.

Of course it makes no fucking sense whatsoever that the simulation would work that way, that it would make so many nonsensical things happen aside from that, and that anyone other than The Cat would believe that the Blue Midget dance could actually happen. But that’s not a condemnation of the sequence in isolation. If everything else about the simulation had been fully realistic, and it was the Blue Midget dance that made everyone realise they’re in a simulation (maybe the hallucination drug worked, but didn’t account for the uniqueness of felis sapiens, that a cat person’s loose and egotistical understanding of the world would screw with the simulation program), then the episode would be better for it.

[International Debris]

Not only that, but it goes on for fucking ages. It’s difficult to ignore how pleased with itself the show feels during that entire sequence. If it lasted 30 seconds, it’d be much easier to see past, but its way, way too long.

[Dax101]

The Blue Midget dance is visually impressive. At least for the time it was made. I’ts kinda fun.

I remember its surrealness did bug me a bit at the time, but its all a simulation so its got that going for it.

[Dave]

Again, in the VIII book Doug talks about this and how heartbreaking it was that so many people put so much time and effort into something that the audience mostly thought was pretty shit and only there to pad out the episode.

But for me, the fact that it was all so intentional – that they deliberately wanted a long Blue Midget dance interlude, and that they didn’t realise how shit it all was – makes it even more baffling. You could kind of understand it if it was desperate filler, but no, this was the Red Dwarf that Doug wanted to make.

[Moonlight]

The real question is whether dancing Blue Midgets are even supposed to be a flight of fancy in the world of Series VIII or something that can just actually happen, because I would not be shocked by the latter.

[Dave]

Here’s the relevant page from the book.

[Flap Jack]

It’s amazing what being inside the production bubble can do to your brain. He made a 2 minute dance sequence that had nothing to do with the plot and was virtually joke free (aside from the absurdity of the core concept), yet he is aghast that someone could be so ignorant as to call it padding – in a 3-parter that was famously meant to be 2 parts until very late in the day, no less.

Best case scenario is he was hoping that Blue Midget Dance would become the new Tongue Tied, but even in that case, no matter how much production effort has been clearly poured into it, in terms of plot someone describing Tongue Tied as padding is pretty understandable. And Tongue Tied actually had funny lyrics, a Howard Goodall arrangement, 3 main characters all singing and dancing etc.

[Ridley]

Use a coaster, Dave, jeez.

[Unrumble]

Doug: Yeah 

Fans: No

[Nick R]

[Moonlight]

I have made tons of video editing work for myself in the past committing to extra details that nobody would notice not being there but would bug me personally if they weren’t, so I have immense sympathy for Doug putting preposterous amounts of effort into something that isn’t strictly necessary but he thinks would make the episode more fun. 

The dance still doesn’t need to exist.

[Ben Saunders]

I liked it when I was nine.

[Warbodog]

The real question is whether dancing Blue Midgets are even supposed to be a flight of fancy in the world of Series VIII or something that can just actually happen, because I would not be shocked by the latter.

I think there’s a bit in Remastered where a Blue Midget scratches the ground like a chicken before running or taking off, or something like that, so when I first watched VIII I figured they were supposed to be “alive” in a way Starbug wasn’t, for whatever reason. Nowadays, Cat’s line about “nothing makes any sense no matter where we are” goes some way towards excusing the whole nonsense as a punchline, much as that irks you!

[International Debris]

Lister suggesting Cat “do another smegging dance” later in the episode, where they believe they’re in reality, is the sinker really.

[Dave]

[Flap Jack]

Brilliant.

[Renegade Rob]

It was the chattering teeth that did it for me. I can just about get behind the Cat being such a good pilot that the buttons he presses before exiting the cockpit somehow account for both the dancing Midget and the other ships following along. It’s stupid but there’s an explanation. (In RDRPG terms, the GM let him substitute his Dance or Seduction skill for Pilot or Computer Ops.). 

But the chattering dentures? Nope. Not even in a world of Talkie Toilets and baby Skutters. Even explained away by the simulated AR of it all, it’s a stretch. 

[Dave]

I think there’s a bit in Remastered where a Blue Midget scratches the ground like a chicken before running or taking off, or something like that, so when I first watched VIII I figured they were supposed to be “alive” in a way Starbug wasn’t, for whatever reason.

I guess it’s the TV version of the hoppers from the novels, only with (presumably) some kind of AI copilot thing that can also… dance?

For me I think it’s a shame that the VIII+ design overshadows the old series 2 look, as I think the original model is one of the best in the show and has a pleasing Gerry Anderson quality to it.

Having said that, the modern design does look good in X, especially when it’s a physical model rather than CGI.

[Flap Jack]

[clem]

The Series 2 Blue Midget model always looks great to me and is easily the better design. Ed Bye criticised it for looking like a van but doesn’t that make sense if it’s for ferrying ore or whatever? Anyway the remastered version has never been in anything as cool as the Bodyswap chase sequence.

I think there’s a bit in Remastered where a Blue Midget scratches the ground like a chicken before running or taking off, or something like that, so when I first watched VIII I figured they were supposed to be “alive” in a way Starbug wasn’t, for whatever reason.

There’s also the bit in TFTM Remastered where it stumbles around drunkenly after the party. Obviously that’s because the crew are drunk but it’s the same kind of thing I suppose.

[Dave]

I LOLed.

[Dave]

The Series 2 Blue Midget model always looks great to me and is easily the better design. Ed Bye criticised it for looking like a van

I always think it looks more like a big military helicopter but without rotor blades.

[Dave]

Anyway, while making the Blue Midget dance edit above, I chanced on this looping gif, which amused me.

Now we just need to edit it as a sprite into a Sonic game.

[clem]

I always think it looks more like a big military helicopter but without rotor blades.

Yeah like a chinook

[Nick R]

Now we just need to edit it as a sprite into a Sonic game.

A rotoscoped version would fit in nicely with these: 

https://www.tumblr.com/dumbrunningsonic

[Flap Jack]

Has anyone ever made an edit of the Blue Midget dance scene that removes the music? Because the music never felt like it was meant to be diegetic, so a music free edit would be a more accurate representation of what the first, hornier ground controller was convinced by.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Anyway, while making the Blue Midget dance edit above, I chanced on this looping gif, which amused me.

You can see the shadow stop where Chris stopped animating it as soon as it was out of frame. So not a perfect loop.

[Ridley]

Chaos control.

[Dave]

[Nick R]

[Dave]

INTO THE LOOP

By Rob Grant

[Unrumble]

[Dave]

Clearly Rimmer does the best looping gifs.

https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/your-red-dwarrf-memes-for-safe-and-courteous-disposal-out-the-nearest-airlock/page/21/#post-273492

https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/mundane-observation-dome/page/59/#post-297870

[Unrumble]

[Unrumble]

[Dax101]

Compared to the CGI Rat the blue midget dance is quality CGI.
You know Red Dwarf became a parody of itself when you realise the Rat was originally envisioned as a CGI Cat aka frankenstein. 

[Renegade Rob]

Contrast that with the super-realistic CGI rat in Skipper, and it’s like night and day. Technology’s come a long way in two decades. 

[Dave]

[clem]

Compared to the CGI Rat the blue midget dance is quality CGI.
You know Red Dwarf became a parody of itself when you realise the Rat was originally envisioned as a CGI Cat aka frankenstein. 

Granted that would have looked even worse but at least we’d have been spared the “rat-arsed” gag.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I quite like the rat arsed gag. 

[Dave]

I quite like the rat arsed gag. 

I mean, compared to the rest of VIII it’s Legion’s lightswitch.

[Ben Saunders]

Love the rat-arsed gag, and how pleased Holly is with himself for saying it. I explained it to a friend recently who very graciously allowed me to tediously set it up and he said (half-sarcastically) “now THAT’S a joke.”

[Author]

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