Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Sex, Drugs and Rock n’ Chips

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  • #4964
    Carlito
    Participant

    Arguably the greatest British sitcom of all time is about to join its American counterpart (Seinfeld) in adding a new chapter to its canon:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8290293.stm

    Unfortunately unlike Seinfeld, which is returning within the storyline of the superb Curb Your Enthusiasm, I have much lower expectations for the latest addition to the Only Fools and Horses story… pretty much based on the fact that John Sullivan hasn’t written anything truly great since 1996, and (in my view) hasn’t produced anything of high quality outside of Fools for nearly 30 years… Okay, some people will say they liked Just Good Friends or Dear John… hell, some would even argue the merits of Roger Roger, but since the end of Citizen Smith, the only Sullivan show that has entertained me is the all-time classic Fools.

    So I’m worried. I’m a bit worried about the casting too. I just cannot see James Buckley pulling off Del Boy (I hope I’m wrong) and that fucking awful actor Phil Daniels playing Grandad?? Ergh.

    #104044
    si
    Participant

    I was never that big a fan of OFAH – it went on too long, for a start, and should have ended when they became millionaires – but when I heard about this show a few weeks ago, the title alone was enough to put me off.

    No thanks.

    #104049
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    My, what a fucked up idea.

    #104058
    si
    Participant

    >Arguably the greatest British sitcom of all time

    He says on a fansite of a British sitcom.

    #104060
    redhead85
    Participant

    >Arguably the greatest British sitcom of all time

    >He says on a fansite of a British sitcom

    Thin ice, my friend, thin ice

    Apparantly Nicholas Lyndhurst will play Rodney’s father

    #104072
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I actually like the idea, although I’m not convinced it will do that well. The Green Green Grass isn’t all that good, although it’s not too bad either. It’s watchable, just far from the heights of Only Fools. (Yes I even liked the newer stuff although I have mixed feelings concerning the reset after they came into their fortune. I like the way it ended though.)

    #104073
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I’m yet to be convinced that it’s a good idea.

    But, my god, they must have offered Nick Lyndhurst some ????!

    #104080
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >The Green Green Grass isn?t all that good

    And Hermann Goering was a bit dodgy.

    #104085
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > But, my god, they must have offered Nick Lyndhurst some ????!

    Think. Given the standard of the last sitcom he worked on I bet he was more than happy to go back to Sullivan scripts.

    #104087
    redhead85
    Participant

    When You’re Gone. Hopefully soon.

    #104090
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Worst. Title. Ever.

    #104096
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >The Green Green Grass isn?t all that good

    And Hermann Goering was a bit dodgy

    Heh. Point taken. I’ve noticed people tend to express opinion on things in absolutes “I love it!” “I hate it.” (Or is that just exaggeration? People do that a lot too.)

    While some things for me fall on each end of the scale most things for me are just spread out in between. If I dislike something (and there’s much I do dislike, including soap operas, rudeness and dates. The sticky fruit kind, I don’t have much experience with the other,) I rarely express it vehemently like most ‘web vocalists*’ seem to.

    Although I’ll admit Hermann Goering was a very naughty boy.

    As I said, I didn’t mind The Green Green Grass, but the daft caricature country folk employees (likeable enough though they were) got old quickly in a way Del boy and Rodney’s mates (Trigger, Denzil, and yes Boycie) never did.

    *Two contradicting words if you take that literally. Or not if we’re talking video files.

    #104099
    Jo
    Participant

    Nooooooooooooooo!

    That is all.

    #104098
    Carlito
    Participant

    >>Arguably the greatest British sitcom of all time

    >He says on a fansite of a British sitcom.

    Hey, I said “arguably”, didn’t I? It depends how you measure greatness. Quality? Success? Both? Other?

    If we’re talking a balance of both, whilst neither are slouches, Only Fools and Horses has to edge out Red Dwarf. Phenomenally successful and hilarious vs very successful and hilarious.

    Then again, Dwarf was more daring and unconventional… but Fools takes the longevity… Dwarf takes the international appeal… I’m genuinely stuck on this.

    I think I do seriously hold Dwarf and Fools in the same esteem despite their stark differences. Certainly no other British show comes close to receiving the same level of fanatical adoration from me as those two, despite plentiful brilliant contenders.

    #104101

    > Unfortunately unlike Seinfeld, which is returning within the storyline of the superb Curb Your Enthusiasm

    Did you see the latest episode of Curb?? I got goosebumps seeing Jerry’s apartment set recreated in Larry’s visions. It’s exactly the same! (maybe NBC had the set in storage or as part of a tour??) The cast are still great too. Julia is hot to this day. Michael Richards as weird as ever and Jason Alexander absolutely brilliant. I loved the scene with him and Larry having the meal.

    The best line was Jerry saying to Larry ‘you told the head of NBC to go fuck himself??’

    Oh and OFAH prequel and all that… Really stupid idea from the moment John Sullivan mentioned it years ago. Does he seriously think OFAH fans want this? He already messed up the show with the episodes after Buster Merryfield died. They were so pointless, only made because they were guaranteed top viewers. Nicholas Lyndhurst has sold himself out a bit with After You’ve Gone and now this. The title is so crap. Even the original title of Once Upon A Time In Peckham is better.

    #104109
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I have a feeling they wanted to call it Sex, Chips and Rock ‘n’ Roll, but discovered that was already taken.

    Besides which, they’ve got the phrasing wrong anyway. The song title, as printed on the record sleeve, is “Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll”. There’s no “and” or “‘n'” in there. They’ve taken something that was originally poetic in rhythm (if in an ironic way, but it’s still a piece of trochaic tetrameter) and turned it into a lumbering, awkward mess of a phrase. WELL DONE.

    #104126
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    So Kellie Bright (Joan) is 33, and James Buckley (Del) is 22. Yeah, I know there’s something called “acting” and another thing called “make up”…and I know that Sean played Harrison’s dad, despite only being 12 years older…I know all of this…but The Last Crusade was already a great idea on paper, long before it got to screen.

    There is nothing redeemable about this AWFUL idea.

    Jonn Sullivan; fuck off until you’ve thought of something new. You’ve already dragged your legacy through the mud with an unnecessary revival and an embarrassing sequel series…

    #104138
    Phil
    Participant

    >The song title, as printed on the record sleeve, is ?Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll?. There?s no ?and? or ??n?? in there.

    You’d know better than me, but are they specifically trying to reference the Ian Dury song? The phrase “sex, drugs and rock n’ roll” dates back as far as the 1960s and is often associated with the Woodstock culture (for…um…obvious enough reasons). Perhaps that’s what they’re referencing.

    #104140
    Dave
    Participant

    The Trotters are a bit more Ian Dury than Woodstock, but it’s a fair point.

    #104154
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Did you see the latest episode of Curb?? I got goosebumps seeing Jerry?s apartment set recreated in Larry?s visions. It?s exactly the same! (maybe NBC had the set in storage or as part of a tour??)

    Fantastic episode. Just love that show. There’s a great 10 min behind-the-scenes vid floating around the net that includes the story of how they dragged the old Seinfeld set out of a storage warehouse, minus the front door (because Jerry had stolen it in 1998!) and how they had updated it to make it modern. It will be featured more in upcoming episodes. In fact, I think they should have left the first reveal of the old set for a later episode, giving it more of a “goosebump moment” rather than simply “ah, there it is” in a dream sequence.

    EDIT: here’s the behind-the-scenes vid. Probably contains minor spoilers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZhJIpJItA

    > I have a feeling they wanted to call it Sex, Chips and Rock ?n? Roll, but discovered that was already taken. Besides which, they?ve got the phrasing wrong anyway. The song title, as printed on the record sleeve, is ?Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll?

    I’d assume “Rock n’ chips” refers to rock salmon and chips, a popular dish in the 50s/60s for the less affluent. You’d go to a chip shop and order “rock n’ chips”.

    > The phrase ?sex, drugs and rock n? roll? dates back as far as the 1960s

    Yeah, so its basically a pun based on the expression – invoking the 60s aspect.

    #104155
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    That’s as may be, but it doesn’t stop it sounding rubbish – a good title shouldn’t just be an “Oh ho ho aren’t we clever” pun, it needs to SOUND good.

    #104156
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Yeah, it’s clunky and shit and I hate the idea and I’m really angry and I have to go and lie down.

    #104161
    hummingbird
    Participant

    ^ what Seb and Pete said

    #104162
    Phil
    Participant

    Believe me, I’m not arguing that it’s a good title.

    #104163
    Carlito
    Participant

    I’m sure 30 years ago a lot of people were thinking “Only Fools and what? What kind of a title is that?”(The BBC certainly hated it and wanted to call it ‘Readies’).

    I’m indifferent to it. I couldn’t give two shiny shites about the title, its the end product that scares me.

    #104168
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > trochaic tetrameter

    Rasputin bring forth…etc.

    #104170
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    See, if you go by the aesthetic criteria I was talking about earlier, “Only Fools and Horses” DOES work nicely – it’s trochaic trimeter. ONly/ FOOLS and/ HORses.

    Incidentally, I sort of brushed it off a bit before, which was rude, but I genuinely didn’t know about the “rock ‘n’ chips” thing, so that was useful to learn!

    #104176
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Yeah, me neither.

    Still shit though.

    #104180
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    it?s trochaic trimeter.

    I think i’ve got a cream for that…

    *epic laughter*

    #104188

    > EDIT: here?s the behind-the-scenes vid. Probably contains minor spoilers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZhJIpJItA

    Fantastic! Seeing that makes me want them to do a full new series. It IS like they never left! I wonder if what they shot could be put together like a real episode? Maybe they didn’t do it that way. I doubt they did anything other than on those two sets.

    It makes you realise that Larry’s doing a similar thing to what Gervais did on Extras with When The Whistle Blows. Obviously the show-within-a-show has been around longer than that with Larry Sanders and all, and with Seinfeld being a real show it makes it that much more special, but perhaps what Gervais did influenced Larry. It’s possible.

    #104193
    Carlito
    Participant

    Seinfeld itself dabbled in (maybe even popularised?) the show-within-a-show concept long before Extras: in season four, Jerry and George (Larry David’s surrogate self character) successfully pitched their own pilot, a “show about nothing” called ‘Jerry’, to NBC in a season-long story arc designed to mirror/parody the creation of the genuine show. So if anything, it’s more likely that Larry and co inspired Gervais, rather than the other way round. (Just like Larry Sanders and, dare I say it, Operation Good Guys – although they’ve never admitted it – inspired The Office)

    In that respect, this season of Curb is a little like retreading old ground… but twenty years later, when the landscape looks completely different.

    #104204
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The Show-within-a-show has been a thousand times over across various different mediums. It’s hardly a new idea. To say Person x is borrowing from/inspired by/ripping off Person y is fucking mental and I wish people would stop doing it.

    Now if you don’t mind I have a clearly original and not at all derivative webcomic to write.

    #104210
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Anyone realised how similar BTE is to the Leage of Gentlemen film? Pretty unoriginal.

    #104212
    Carlito
    Participant

    Not sure if you’re responding to me or PerformingMonkey there, but just to clarify I wasn’t suggesting Gervais ripped off Larry David (or the opposite), but in this particular instance:

    > To say Person x is borrowing from/inspired by/ripping off Person y is fucking mental and I wish people would stop doing it.

    Gervais is a self-confessed fan of Larry David and Seinfeld. How is it mental to suggest the possibility that Gervais, in embracing the show-within-a-show format, wasn’t at least partly inspired by another show he has espoused the virtues of?

    A blind statement with no citation would be annoying, sure… like the endless League of Gentlemen: Apocalypse comparisons following Back To Earth, simply because both featured meta elements… but if Doug Naylor had previously gone on record to publicly state that he absolutely loved Apocalypse and then later conjured up Back To Earth, it would be more than fair to just assume he took some inspiration from it.

    I’m not having a pop, I realise you may have simply been setting up the self-depracating reference to Jump Leads’ own inspirations, with tongue firmly in-cheek, but I’m just sayin’. ‘When The Whistle Blows’ was pretty likely to have taken a little inspiration from ‘Jerry’.

    #104218

    I can’t remember whether they showed them actually shooting the Pilot in Seinfeld. It’s ages since I’ve seen season 4. Gervais was definitely more influenced by Larry Sanders than anything else, and Curb too for Extras.

    > To say Person x is borrowing from/inspired by/ripping off Person y is fucking mental and I wish people would stop doing it.

    Everyone rips off everything. This post, for instance, is just a blatant ripoff of several others posted earlier. Anyone who you think is original isn’t, you’re just not too familiar with who or what they’ve ripped off.

    #104219
    Carlito
    Participant

    Yeah, the season four finale was a double episode, and strongly featured the shooting/televising of the pilot (and its instant cancellation).

    I’m guessing the Curb finale will be the shooting of the reunion episode, and we’re bound to see elements of it, but unlikely to be a full ‘Seinfeld’ show… could be wrong though; if the Curb finale is an hour, we may get to see a large section a la The Producers in Curb season 4.

    #104243
    si
    Participant

    Hmm. Shaun Dingwall (aka Pete ‘Rose’s Dad’ Tyler) plays Reg ‘Del’s Dad’ Trotter in this. Still looks shite though. Plus I can’t stand Kellie Bright.

    #104177
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I liked it when David and Maddie realised thier love for each other, and David kept talking to the camera. Then it nearly ruined the Moonlighting Detective Agency when they started falling out and Maddie turned into a witch and David turned into a plastercine frog!

    #104291
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Plus I can?t stand Kellie Bright.

    Grrr.

    #104293
    Carlito
    Participant

    Is that “me Julie”?

    #104296

    Give it a shave ’cause I wanna be in ya.

    #104303
    si
    Participant

    > Plus I can?t stand Kellie Bright.

    >>Grrr.

    It’s a ‘T-Bag’ thing.

    #104304
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Sex, Drugs and Fish n’ Chips would be a better title, it would still be bad but it wouldn’t be as bad.

    #104305
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Sex, drugs, tired plotlines n’ hysterical studio audiences.

    #104306
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Is all we really need.

    #104307
    Carlito
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s going to have a studio audience. I believe it’s a comedy-drama.

    Good way to excuse the fact John Sullivan can no longer write satisfactory straight-up comedy, I guess.

    #104309
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Not that old chestnut.

    #104310
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Only Fools and Horses has tailed from straight up comedy into comedy drama tonnes of times.

    #104311
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I’m going to watch it and see what I think.

    I really do like the idea, I just hope it’s executed ok.
    Anyone remember “Start of the Summer wine?” Dear me.

    I saw a couple of pictures in the Sun today*. A surly Nicholas Lyndhurst as Freddie the Frog and a not very Delboy looking, erm, Delboy in a leather jacket. I didn’t place
    James Buckley, but then I found out it’s the loud-mouthed kid from The Inbetweeners.

    Oh well, different character. We’ll see.

    *It was on a desk in the jobsearch place in which I attend. I didn’t buy it. Honest.

    #104312
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Only Fools and Horses has tailed from straight up comedy into comedy drama tonnes of times

    Usually only for isolated scenes, bookended by the usual sitcom fare. And the Fools episodes with a more dramatic overall tone throughout didn’t have studio audiences or laugh tracks anyway… until the BBC fucking ruined the DVD releases by chopping them to shreds and including laugh tracks where there weren’t any.

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