Star Trek: Picard

[Ben Kirkham]

I loved the first episode! So far, everything I hoped it would be. It’s gorgeous, nostalgic yet very fresh and new. And Stewart is as stunning as ever.

Topic

[Moonlight]

I have very mixed feelings about the first episode. But I’m not quite sure what they are.

[Dave]

I watched episode one and quite enjoyed it, although I feel like some of the historical/backstory references were lost on me as someone who doesn’t know a huge amount about Star Trek.

The basic story seems solid and it’s well-made and obviously wants to engage with some quite contemporary ideas. I’ll definitely keep watching for now.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I have very mixed feelings about the first episode. But I’m not quite sure what they are. </

I’m feeling the same. I really enjoyed it, it looks great, it feels like a really great story is unfolding, Stewart was brilliant and the themes it is touching on are really interesting.

I’m just about able to keep up with the back story and references. But I’ve also come out of it feeling a little confused and I’m not sure why.

They threw a lot at us in a short space of time there, perhaps maybe covering too much ground in just 45mins. Is this the first time a series premier of Trek has only been a single episode length? Discovery gave us episodes 1 and 2 at the same time didn’t they? All the TNG era first eps were double length.

Really looking forward to more of this and seeing where it goes.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Oh well that formatting is fucked

[Ben Saunders]

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: an orphaned early-20s white girl with a tragic backstory and a mysterious secret who is some sort of chosen one beats up an entire room full of highly trained henchmen and then cries about something

[Ben Saunders]

Real talk, that was alright, not much more than serviceable, Patrick Stewart is a doddering old man, but he did have one very good scene, where he was talking to that boring girl about how special she is, a reminiscing about Data. The whole thing absolutely reeks of being made in 2020, though, from the very typical music, the high contrast lighting, the washed out colours, some of the tropes etc etc. TNG is very 80s, obviously, but the 80s were a lot nicer to look at.

Pictured is the Starfleet archives from Picard, the Jedi archives from Attack of the Clones, and the library upon which the Jedi archives were based, in Trinity College, London. I don’t know if Picard is deliberately referencing Attack of the Clones or if they just ended up in the same place from the same idea.

[Dave]

Yeah, I immediately thought of the Jedi archive too.

[Ben Saunders]

The Cage: 1h3min
Where No Man Has Gone Before: 55m
Encounter at Farpoint: 1h32m
Emmisary: 1h30m
The Caretaker: 1h30m
Broken Bow: 1h30m

Dunno if Discovery “aired” as a two-or-more-part pilot or if they dropped the whole series or what, but The Vulcan Hello is 44 minutes

[Veni]

It being a library I’d imagine it’d see use mainly as a library for productions.

[Ridley]

I don’t know if Picard is deliberately referencing Attack of the Clones or if they just ended up in the same place from the same idea.

Considering the amount of crossover talent, I’d be surprised if it was a coincidence.

Someone write an essay about the ads using the TNG Star Trek logo but the episode using Discovery’s.

[(deleted)]

I really enjoyed it, and am enthused to see the rest. Being a quisling turncoat I do rather wish they’d plopped all four online at once to enjoy as a big film but hey.

I have no comments or criticisms really, I just was in a very happy place as a viewer. It was enough like Star Trek to feel like Star Trek, but didn’t feel like a tired pastiche either. This hasn’t been achieved in quite a while.

[Dave]

Being a quisling turncoat I do rather wish they’d plopped all four online at once to enjoy as a big film but hey.

It’s a ten-episode season isn’t it?

[(deleted)]

THIS I DID NOT KNOW.

I didn’t know it had been recommissioned either.

Be still my ruined trousers.

[Dave]

Yep, bodes well that it’s already been renewed.

I think advance reviewers have seen four episodes as a preview, which may be where that number came from.

[Ridley]

TNG Star Trek logo

Or do I mean TOS logo?

[Dave]

As part of getting morr familiar with the backstory for watching Picard, some friends have recommended a few TNG episodes for me to dip into (I’ve only seen a handful over the years). I’ve started with The Measure Of A Man, which I really enjoyed.

[(deleted)]

At a push you could do it on that one, The Best Of Both Worlds, Family, and the films First Contact and Nemesis. It’s difficult to know what might pop up in upcoming shows though.

[Ben Saunders]

I, Borg is important too. And Descent.

[Dave]

Thanks both – those chime with recommendations I’ve had so I’ll try and work through them.

(I’ve seen “The Offspring” suggested too. And do I need to go back to “Datalore”?)

On the movie side I’ve seen First Contact and Insurrection but not Nemesis, so I’ll see if I can fit that in at some point.

[(deleted)]

Forgot Hugh was a part of it. Just realised you’ll need some Voyagers as well to contextualise the Seven/Borg stuff. Scorpion, Drone and Dark Frontier at a bare minimum. Don’t think you’ll need further Romulan grounding as it’s fairly straightforward and Nemesis goes over it anyway.

But it’s definitely a prep heavy show as it’s specifically aimed at avid fans from the 90s/early 2000s. Enterprise, the Abrams films and Discovery were all designed to swerve the immediate needs of the diehards (and all fractured, factioned and made very febrile the Trek fandom in turned), so the self-indulgent back referencing of Picard is earned three times over. This show is a peace mission for people who spent a lot of money on VHS releases in 1998 and have felt a bit fucked-without-a-kiss since Nemesis came out.

[(deleted)]

Just seen your signoff – The Offspring wouldn’t hurt, but it’s a resonance/character thing rather than a continuity element. I would avoid Lore episodes unless you have to – they’re hugely enjoyable bits of Star Trek but they might overcomplicate things for you at this juncture.

[Dave]

To be honest I thought the first episode did a decent job of catering for people like me (explaining enough along the way that I’m not completely lost) while obviously including a lot of deeper stuff and callbacks for the well-versed longtime fans. That’s not an easy balancing act but it did fine.

(The only time I was really confused was initially thinking the Romulan attackers were Vulcans.)

[Dave]

Just seen your signoff – The Offspring wouldn’t hurt, but it’s a resonance/character thing rather than a continuity element. I would avoid Lore episodes unless you have to – they’re hugely enjoyable bits of Star Trek but they might overcomplicate things for you at this juncture.

Ok great, thanks.

[(deleted)]

Happy to hear it all kind of makes sense at this stage. When you’re very deep in it all, it becomes impossible to tell.

It does look though like it’s explicitly trying to tie several unconnected loose ends together from various Berman-era shows/films continuity, so if it does commit to going down that route the revision may become more essential as we go on (or it might not!). For example, the ‘B-4’ scene in episode 1 addresses and begins to resolve a story left open for 18 years (kind of Trek’s equivalent of the end of Only The Good).

[Dave]

Yeah, it may be that I come back for more episode recommendations as the show goes on, depending on what happens with the story.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The only time I was really confused was initially thinking the Romulan attackers were Vulcans

Romulans are like distant cousins to Vulcans, but have spent several centuries apart. They don’t go in for all the logic and emotionless life Vulcans do, and have been Cold War enemies of the Federation for basically as long as the show has been running.

[Dave]

Thanks. I’ve seen some stuff involving Romulans before but have never really grasped who they are in the grand scheme of things.

[Ben Saunders]

I feel like people are overplaying just how much you “need” to watch before seeing Picard – there are a couple visual references and I guess there’s the B4 thing, but most everything is explained in the episode itself anyway. I’m interested to hear what people were confused by or thought was unclear. Some of it is brand new backstory invented just for Picard. And stuff like “the Romulan sun blew up” is converted very plainly in the episode.

It’s funny, I only watched all of TNG from January – July 2019, so I am completely unphased and unaffected by any and all of the nostalgia bait that litters Picard. Oh, the Enterprise D is back? I last saw that in Generations in November. Oh look, it’s Data, who was in Nemesis, which I watched last month. Oh CV a bat’leth, which was in DS9, which I finished in September. None of this is impressive to me, I haven’t been away from these things for any length of time, and thus it’s impossible for me to have the reactions to the episode that Darrel et al have had, and I just think it was a serviceable, if somewhat cliche first episode of yet another Star Trek series.

[(deleted)]

I wouldn’t even call it nostalgia bait, it’s more just the reactivation of a machine that was rolling relentlessly from 1987-2002 and then – as near as damn it – was turned off ever since.

To me it *is* very much assuming the viewer is a veteran of the Berman era and can carry on where it was left off. And however much they’re trying to bring newcomers in gently, it’s unashamedly fanwanky in ideology. Hugh hasn’t been seen for over 25 years, for instance, and Seven for nearly 20. Picard is the Five Doctors of Star Trek and should be embraced as such.

[Dave]

And I think it’s fine to do that fan-service as long as it’s not absolutely impenetrable for more casual viewers. The first episode managed to serve both sides, so let’s hope it continues in that spirit.

[Ben Saunders]

The Five Doctors is shit outside of all the fanwank, though, is that what you’re saying? The ending is really really horrible as well, in a way that I kind of like.

[(deleted)]

I love The Five Doctors, it is 90 minutes of solid joy and probably my most rewatched DW story of all time. I wasn’t aware there was much dissent tbh. What miserable sods are saying otherwise?

[(deleted)]

I would also like to point out that the distance between Hugh’s last appearance in ‘Descent’, and the Picard show, is longer than the distance between An Unearthly Child and Survival.

[Ben Saunders]

Production values through the floor, plodding story, embarassing scenes include the one where The Master and the Cybermen have to stand on the correct bits of floor, the one where Sarah Jane falls off of the littlest hill anybody has ever seen and sprains her ankle, and most of anything involving Richard Hurdnall, especially him telling Tegan to make him tea. Special shoutouts to that scene where the Cybermen surround that TARDIS and Turlough just accepts death. The speech at the end is nice, but the whole Game of Rassilon thing, and the cameos where no one does anything, it’s all just very dull. Terrance Dicks (who I like) plugging shape A into slot B, or whatever the saying is.

Also: no, not the m-mind… probe

[(deleted)]

I think you might be too young to fully understand the old religion of Light Entertainment, so I don’t blame you, but it’s pretty much one of LE’s Sacred Texts.

[Ben Saunders]

I’ll take Caves of Androzani over Noel’s House Party any day

[JamesTC]

If you want a crash course in the Star Trek episodes that are likely to be relevant in Picard then I’d recommend the following:
TNG:
Datalore
The Measure of a Man
Q Who
The Best of Both Worlds
Family
Brothers
I, Borg
Descent
All Good Things…
Star Trek VII: Generations
Star Trek VIII: First Contact
Star Trek IX: Insurrection
Star Trek X: Nemesis

Voyager:
Scorpion
The Gift
The Raven
Dark Frontier
Collective
Author, Author
Endgame

Essentially a crash course in Seven of Nine, Picard, Hugh, Data and the Borg. Thrown in Author, Author too as it is relevant for the “synthetic rights”. Insurrection I added as it has similarities to Picard (synthetic losing control and Picard rebelling against Starfleet).

[Ben Saunders]

Why Generations and Insurrection?

[Ben Saunders]

They aren’t awful, but I wonder what relevance you think they have

[Dave]

Cheers. Might be slightly too long a list for me but I’ll work through as much as I can. Halfway through Best Of Both Worlds at this very moment.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Fucking hell. Dave watching Best of Both Worlds immediately after this weeks Doctor Who! That’s going to be too much excitement for one evening.

[Dave]

It is turning into a pretty good evening of TV sci-fi, yes.

[Plastic Percy]

I loved it, and it was a perfect opening. Patrick Stewart steps effortlessly back into playing Jean-Luc Picard, but also does an admirable job of showing that he has changed in some respects in the twenty odd years since we last him. He still has the sharp intellect, compassion and morals he’s always had, but its nice that he’s a bit less rigid and informal. Arguing with his dog about him not understanding French was a particular highlight.

Naturally, the ‘old school’ fans I know didn’t like it and have whinged the creators have ruined it by making it too “liberal” and making Picard an “SJW”. Griping that yet again they’ve “forced politics into Star Trek”.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

What were those “old school fans” even watching in the 90s because it certainly wasn’t Star Trek!

[JamesTC]

>Why Generations and Insurrection?

I explained Insurrection. To add to that, it is the story when Riker/Troi get back together. Generations is an important chapter in Picard’s story in terms of his family.

[Pete Part Three]

Picard’s family dies in a fire.

Just saved 2 hours.

[Veni]

Watched the RLM review; they pretty much hammered it, though I can’t say i had any particular interest in this myself. I don’t see the benefit of stretching this out over more than a series, Stewart’s 78 and there comes a point it’ll take a lot out of him. Though, I doubt the writers would be able to write a strong limited series one.

[(deleted)]

You make it sound like he’s bedridden.

Lots of low-level ageism around these parts lately. We’re not in Logan’s Run.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Depending on the sort of show Picard turns out to be, it could be fairly easy for him.

He is a very fit guy for his age, he has looked after himself, so I don’t think he’ll stuggle there. i.e. he is still capable of making several hours of TV. But also, films aside, Picard isn’t the running around action hero type. He’ll likely have mostly dialogue scenes and be able to continue for years yet.

Though I did note that I’m sure when we saw him and the girl running away at one point, it was from behind and I couldn’t help but notice it might have been a double. Which is fine if that’s what they need to do. Anything more strenuous than that and they’d have a double anyway, even if he was 25!

[Dave]

Yeah, I don’t see Stewart’s age being a problem for this show.

(I did also notice the double for that scene though, a bit glaring.)

[Author]

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