Star Trek: Picard

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  • #257239

    Ben Kirkham

    I loved the first episode! So far, everything I hoped it would be. It’s gorgeous, nostalgic yet very fresh and new. And Stewart is as stunning as ever.

    #257251

    Katydid

    I have very mixed feelings about the first episode. But I’m not quite sure what they are.

    #257255

    Dave

    I watched episode one and quite enjoyed it, although I feel like some of the historical/backstory references were lost on me as someone who doesn’t know a huge amount about Star Trek.

    The basic story seems solid and it’s well-made and obviously wants to engage with some quite contemporary ideas. I’ll definitely keep watching for now.

    #257256

    quinn_drummer

    I have very mixed feelings about the first episode. But I’m not quite sure what they are. </

    I’m feeling the same. I really enjoyed it, it looks great, it feels like a really great story is unfolding, Stewart was brilliant and the themes it is touching on are really interesting.

    I’m just about able to keep up with the back story and references. But I’ve also come out of it feeling a little confused and I’m not sure why.

    They threw a lot at us in a short space of time there, perhaps maybe covering too much ground in just 45mins. Is this the first time a series premier of Trek has only been a single episode length? Discovery gave us episodes 1 and 2 at the same time didn’t they? All the TNG era first eps were double length.

    Really looking forward to more of this and seeing where it goes.

    #257257

    quinn_drummer

    Oh well that formatting is fucked

    #257259

    Ben Saunders

    Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: an orphaned early-20s white girl with a tragic backstory and a mysterious secret who is some sort of chosen one beats up an entire room full of highly trained henchmen and then cries about something

    #257260

    Ben Saunders

    Real talk, that was alright, not much more than serviceable, Patrick Stewart is a doddering old man, but he did have one very good scene, where he was talking to that boring girl about how special she is, a reminiscing about Data. The whole thing absolutely reeks of being made in 2020, though, from the very typical music, the high contrast lighting, the washed out colours, some of the tropes etc etc. TNG is very 80s, obviously, but the 80s were a lot nicer to look at.



    Pictured is the Starfleet archives from Picard, the Jedi archives from Attack of the Clones, and the library upon which the Jedi archives were based, in Trinity College, London. I don’t know if Picard is deliberately referencing Attack of the Clones or if they just ended up in the same place from the same idea.

    #257261

    Dave

    Yeah, I immediately thought of the Jedi archive too.

    #257262

    Ben Saunders

    The Cage: 1h3min
    Where No Man Has Gone Before: 55m
    Encounter at Farpoint: 1h32m
    Emmisary: 1h30m
    The Caretaker: 1h30m
    Broken Bow: 1h30m

    Dunno if Discovery “aired” as a two-or-more-part pilot or if they dropped the whole series or what, but The Vulcan Hello is 44 minutes

    #257264

    Veni

    It being a library I’d imagine it’d see use mainly as a library for productions.

    #257265

    Ridley

    I don’t know if Picard is deliberately referencing Attack of the Clones or if they just ended up in the same place from the same idea.

    Considering the amount of crossover talent, I’d be surprised if it was a coincidence.

    Someone write an essay about the ads using the TNG Star Trek logo but the episode using Discovery’s.

    #257266

    (deleted)

    I really enjoyed it, and am enthused to see the rest. Being a quisling turncoat I do rather wish they’d plopped all four online at once to enjoy as a big film but hey.

    I have no comments or criticisms really, I just was in a very happy place as a viewer. It was enough like Star Trek to feel like Star Trek, but didn’t feel like a tired pastiche either. This hasn’t been achieved in quite a while.

    #257267

    Dave

    Being a quisling turncoat I do rather wish they’d plopped all four online at once to enjoy as a big film but hey.

    It’s a ten-episode season isn’t it?

    #257268

    (deleted)

    THIS I DID NOT KNOW.

    I didn’t know it had been recommissioned either.

    Be still my ruined trousers.

    #257269

    Dave

    Yep, bodes well that it’s already been renewed.

    I think advance reviewers have seen four episodes as a preview, which may be where that number came from.

    #257270

    Ridley

    TNG Star Trek logo

    Or do I mean TOS logo?

    #257271

    Dave

    As part of getting morr familiar with the backstory for watching Picard, some friends have recommended a few TNG episodes for me to dip into (I’ve only seen a handful over the years). I’ve started with The Measure Of A Man, which I really enjoyed.

    #257272

    (deleted)

    At a push you could do it on that one, The Best Of Both Worlds, Family, and the films First Contact and Nemesis. It’s difficult to know what might pop up in upcoming shows though.

    #257273

    Ben Saunders

    I, Borg is important too. And Descent.

    #257274

    Dave

    Thanks both – those chime with recommendations I’ve had so I’ll try and work through them.

    (I’ve seen “The Offspring” suggested too. And do I need to go back to “Datalore”?)

    On the movie side I’ve seen First Contact and Insurrection but not Nemesis, so I’ll see if I can fit that in at some point.

    #257275

    (deleted)

    Forgot Hugh was a part of it. Just realised you’ll need some Voyagers as well to contextualise the Seven/Borg stuff. Scorpion, Drone and Dark Frontier at a bare minimum. Don’t think you’ll need further Romulan grounding as it’s fairly straightforward and Nemesis goes over it anyway.

    But it’s definitely a prep heavy show as it’s specifically aimed at avid fans from the 90s/early 2000s. Enterprise, the Abrams films and Discovery were all designed to swerve the immediate needs of the diehards (and all fractured, factioned and made very febrile the Trek fandom in turned), so the self-indulgent back referencing of Picard is earned three times over. This show is a peace mission for people who spent a lot of money on VHS releases in 1998 and have felt a bit fucked-without-a-kiss since Nemesis came out.

    #257276

    (deleted)

    Just seen your signoff – The Offspring wouldn’t hurt, but it’s a resonance/character thing rather than a continuity element. I would avoid Lore episodes unless you have to – they’re hugely enjoyable bits of Star Trek but they might overcomplicate things for you at this juncture.

    #257277

    Dave

    To be honest I thought the first episode did a decent job of catering for people like me (explaining enough along the way that I’m not completely lost) while obviously including a lot of deeper stuff and callbacks for the well-versed longtime fans. That’s not an easy balancing act but it did fine.

    (The only time I was really confused was initially thinking the Romulan attackers were Vulcans.)

    #257278

    Dave

    Just seen your signoff – The Offspring wouldn’t hurt, but it’s a resonance/character thing rather than a continuity element. I would avoid Lore episodes unless you have to – they’re hugely enjoyable bits of Star Trek but they might overcomplicate things for you at this juncture.

    Ok great, thanks.

    #257279

    (deleted)

    Happy to hear it all kind of makes sense at this stage. When you’re very deep in it all, it becomes impossible to tell.

    It does look though like it’s explicitly trying to tie several unconnected loose ends together from various Berman-era shows/films continuity, so if it does commit to going down that route the revision may become more essential as we go on (or it might not!). For example, the ‘B-4’ scene in episode 1 addresses and begins to resolve a story left open for 18 years (kind of Trek’s equivalent of the end of Only The Good).

    #257280

    Dave

    Yeah, it may be that I come back for more episode recommendations as the show goes on, depending on what happens with the story.

    #257281

    quinn_drummer

    The only time I was really confused was initially thinking the Romulan attackers were Vulcans

    Romulans are like distant cousins to Vulcans, but have spent several centuries apart. They don’t go in for all the logic and emotionless life Vulcans do, and have been Cold War enemies of the Federation for basically as long as the show has been running.

    #257283

    Dave

    Thanks. I’ve seen some stuff involving Romulans before but have never really grasped who they are in the grand scheme of things.

    #257284

    Ben Saunders

    I feel like people are overplaying just how much you “need” to watch before seeing Picard – there are a couple visual references and I guess there’s the B4 thing, but most everything is explained in the episode itself anyway. I’m interested to hear what people were confused by or thought was unclear. Some of it is brand new backstory invented just for Picard. And stuff like “the Romulan sun blew up” is converted very plainly in the episode.

    It’s funny, I only watched all of TNG from January – July 2019, so I am completely unphased and unaffected by any and all of the nostalgia bait that litters Picard. Oh, the Enterprise D is back? I last saw that in Generations in November. Oh look, it’s Data, who was in Nemesis, which I watched last month. Oh CV a bat’leth, which was in DS9, which I finished in September. None of this is impressive to me, I haven’t been away from these things for any length of time, and thus it’s impossible for me to have the reactions to the episode that Darrel et al have had, and I just think it was a serviceable, if somewhat cliche first episode of yet another Star Trek series.

    #257285

    (deleted)

    I wouldn’t even call it nostalgia bait, it’s more just the reactivation of a machine that was rolling relentlessly from 1987-2002 and then – as near as damn it – was turned off ever since.

    To me it *is* very much assuming the viewer is a veteran of the Berman era and can carry on where it was left off. And however much they’re trying to bring newcomers in gently, it’s unashamedly fanwanky in ideology. Hugh hasn’t been seen for over 25 years, for instance, and Seven for nearly 20. Picard is the Five Doctors of Star Trek and should be embraced as such.

    #257286

    Dave

    And I think it’s fine to do that fan-service as long as it’s not absolutely impenetrable for more casual viewers. The first episode managed to serve both sides, so let’s hope it continues in that spirit.

    #257287

    Ben Saunders

    The Five Doctors is shit outside of all the fanwank, though, is that what you’re saying? The ending is really really horrible as well, in a way that I kind of like.

    #257289

    (deleted)

    I love The Five Doctors, it is 90 minutes of solid joy and probably my most rewatched DW story of all time. I wasn’t aware there was much dissent tbh. What miserable sods are saying otherwise?

    #257290

    (deleted)

    I would also like to point out that the distance between Hugh’s last appearance in ‘Descent’, and the Picard show, is longer than the distance between An Unearthly Child and Survival.

    #257292

    Ben Saunders

    Production values through the floor, plodding story, embarassing scenes include the one where The Master and the Cybermen have to stand on the correct bits of floor, the one where Sarah Jane falls off of the littlest hill anybody has ever seen and sprains her ankle, and most of anything involving Richard Hurdnall, especially him telling Tegan to make him tea. Special shoutouts to that scene where the Cybermen surround that TARDIS and Turlough just accepts death. The speech at the end is nice, but the whole Game of Rassilon thing, and the cameos where no one does anything, it’s all just very dull. Terrance Dicks (who I like) plugging shape A into slot B, or whatever the saying is.

    Also: no, not the m-mind… probe

    #257297

    (deleted)

    I think you might be too young to fully understand the old religion of Light Entertainment, so I don’t blame you, but it’s pretty much one of LE’s Sacred Texts.

    #257299

    Ben Saunders

    I’ll take Caves of Androzani over Noel’s House Party any day

    #257300

    JamesTC

    If you want a crash course in the Star Trek episodes that are likely to be relevant in Picard then I’d recommend the following:
    TNG:
    Datalore
    The Measure of a Man
    Q Who
    The Best of Both Worlds
    Family
    Brothers
    I, Borg
    Descent
    All Good Things…
    Star Trek VII: Generations
    Star Trek VIII: First Contact
    Star Trek IX: Insurrection
    Star Trek X: Nemesis

    Voyager:
    Scorpion
    The Gift
    The Raven
    Dark Frontier
    Collective
    Author, Author
    Endgame

    Essentially a crash course in Seven of Nine, Picard, Hugh, Data and the Borg. Thrown in Author, Author too as it is relevant for the “synthetic rights”. Insurrection I added as it has similarities to Picard (synthetic losing control and Picard rebelling against Starfleet).

    #257301

    Ben Saunders

    Why Generations and Insurrection?

    #257302

    Ben Saunders

    They aren’t awful, but I wonder what relevance you think they have

    #257309

    Dave

    Cheers. Might be slightly too long a list for me but I’ll work through as much as I can. Halfway through Best Of Both Worlds at this very moment.

    #257312

    quinn_drummer

    Fucking hell. Dave watching Best of Both Worlds immediately after this weeks Doctor Who! That’s going to be too much excitement for one evening.

    #257316

    Dave

    It is turning into a pretty good evening of TV sci-fi, yes.

    #257324

    Plastic Percy

    I loved it, and it was a perfect opening. Patrick Stewart steps effortlessly back into playing Jean-Luc Picard, but also does an admirable job of showing that he has changed in some respects in the twenty odd years since we last him. He still has the sharp intellect, compassion and morals he’s always had, but its nice that he’s a bit less rigid and informal. Arguing with his dog about him not understanding French was a particular highlight.

    Naturally, the ‘old school’ fans I know didn’t like it and have whinged the creators have ruined it by making it too “liberal” and making Picard an “SJW”. Griping that yet again they’ve “forced politics into Star Trek”.

    #257326

    quinn_drummer

    What were those “old school fans” even watching in the 90s because it certainly wasn’t Star Trek!

    #257329

    JamesTC

    >Why Generations and Insurrection?

    I explained Insurrection. To add to that, it is the story when Riker/Troi get back together. Generations is an important chapter in Picard’s story in terms of his family.

    #257333

    Pete Part Three

    Picard’s family dies in a fire.

    Just saved 2 hours.

    #257336

    Veni

    Watched the RLM review; they pretty much hammered it, though I can’t say i had any particular interest in this myself. I don’t see the benefit of stretching this out over more than a series, Stewart’s 78 and there comes a point it’ll take a lot out of him. Though, I doubt the writers would be able to write a strong limited series one.

    #257338

    (deleted)

    You make it sound like he’s bedridden.

    Lots of low-level ageism around these parts lately. We’re not in Logan’s Run.

    #257339

    quinn_drummer

    Depending on the sort of show Picard turns out to be, it could be fairly easy for him.

    He is a very fit guy for his age, he has looked after himself, so I don’t think he’ll stuggle there. i.e. he is still capable of making several hours of TV. But also, films aside, Picard isn’t the running around action hero type. He’ll likely have mostly dialogue scenes and be able to continue for years yet.

    Though I did note that I’m sure when we saw him and the girl running away at one point, it was from behind and I couldn’t help but notice it might have been a double. Which is fine if that’s what they need to do. Anything more strenuous than that and they’d have a double anyway, even if he was 25!

    #257340

    Dave

    Yeah, I don’t see Stewart’s age being a problem for this show.

    (I did also notice the double for that scene though, a bit glaring.)

    #257349

    Ben Saunders

    The RLM review did a great job of going into how modern Star Trek spits in the face of old Star Trek, turning the Federation into a bunch of anti-alien space xenophobes, despite being shown on multiple occasions to have a non-human president, etc. They have a lot of very valid points criticising the whole thing, even if their overall tone is a jokey one where they basically set out to make fun of it. They liked The Mandalorian, which at least goes to show that they don’t just hate everything new for being new, though. They also cover how Picard and Data were never really friends, until the end of First Contact and again at the end of Nemesis, and how Picard actually lost faith in Data several times. Also the old Picard from The Drumhead et al would have never cracked during that interview from that xenophobic lady.

    Also the general plot of a star suddenly going supernova and the Romulans not having already evacuated themselves by the point it eventually did is ridiculous, but that’s more of a critique of Star Trek 2009, and you can’t really blame Picard for having to follow on from that. But again, the idea that the Federation from the TOS/TNG era wouldn’t help relocate the Romulans after their fucking sun exploded is ridiculous, and it’s clearly supposed to be a commentary on modern American politics, etc.

    #257350

    Ben Saunders

    I saw somebody comment the other day that Picard actually appears to be older than Patrick Stewart is in real life, you watch Stewart in interviews and stuff and he seems fine, but in Picard he genuinely seems like a frail geriatric who is one hip-breaking fall in his living room away from having to go to hospital and never leaving.

    #257352

    Dave

    I think it’s called ‘acting’.

    #257353

    Dave

    Anyway, watched ‘Datalore’ today and… well, it’s not great is it. It’s like Star Trek’s version of Beyond A Joke.

    #257354

    Ben Saunders

    You can make him a frail geriatric or you can make him dodge laser blasts and get thrown 20 feet by an explosion

    #257355

    Veni

    Maybe it’s the higher definition cameras capturing his facial fatigue. That, and Stewart does have a beard in most interviews I’ve seen and beards legitimately age you down.

    #257356

    quinn_drummer

    Me with any facial hair and I look my age.

    Me clean shaven and honestly I have to hide from paedophiles

    #257357

    Veni

    It’s more so for older people such as those 40+, though I doubt you’re blending into Gen Z crowds with your This is England looks lol

    #257432

    quinn_drummer

    I feel like I’ve just watched 45mins of nothing happening.

    #257434

    Dave

    Cheeky fucker.

    #257435

    Dave

    The “__ days without an assimilation” sign made me laugh, and felt like something out of Red Dwarf.

    #257436

    Veni

    Lol what’s the context for that

    #257437

    Dave

    It’s a sign on board an old dead Borg cube that has been overtaken by non-Borg people who are experimenting on/performing autopsies on old dead Borgified people.

    #257438

    Ben Saunders

    God this is so DULL.
    I don’t even want to complain about it because it bores me so much. Next.

    #257439

    Ben Saunders

    NOTHING HAPPENED
    JUST EMPTY MYSTERIOUS DIALOGUE

    >There’s an enemy within Starfleet
    Wow I’m sooooooooooo surprised

    #257440

    Ben Saunders

    Gratuitous sex and swearing on TV hasn’t been edgy since Torchwood, it was embarrassing back then as well

    #257442

    Ridley

    I thought the swearing usefully illustrated the outrage to Picard’s request tee bee haytch.

    #257443

    Dave

    The early swearing was a bit silly though.

    #257445

    Ben Saunders

    That’s an extremely cheap way to illustrate that, there’s this thing called “acting” that some people can do which is typically used to convey emotion in a scene.

    For real though it does feel really cheap and a bit “ooh look at us, this ain’t your dad’s Trek, it’s serious!”

    #257447

    quinn_drummer

    I actually think the “fuck” we get from the admiral was warranted, she is actually seething with anger and it was used in the right context.

    The feck from the Romulan was a bit pointless.

    I don’t mind swearing in Trek, granted it is more gratuitous now and it does feel like its done deliberately to stand out … but its also got the benefit of not being on at 6pm on a weekday evening so it can be a bit more sweary.

    It also shows these people as being a bit more human and relatable, which is something that has gradually crept in as the different series have progressed. The TNG crew were all very prim and proper, almost austere. Only liking Shakespeare and opera and jazz and stuf. I liked that when we got to DS9 O’Brien and Bashir are show to go out on the piss and have fun in the holodecks and stuff, then with Voyager Paris is shown to have an interest in old black and white sci-fi shows.

    With this new round of Trek, it’s showing that, whilst humanity has progressed, they’re still fundamentally human and they swear when they’re angry or excited. They’re not so enlightened that they’re unrelatable. And besides, even Picard swore in French occasionally.

    #257491

    Dave

    I just finished watching I, Borg as part of my crash-course in TNG to help me better appreciate Picard.

    II quite enjoyed it – most of the TNG episodes recommended for this exercise have been pretty good, and I’m becoming a fan of the show, although I guess that’s the advantage of having other people pick out the highlights from seven seasons’ worth of episodes.

    One thing that did make me chuckle though is the name Hugh, which will only ever remind me of The Armando Iannucci Shows.

    #257492

    Veni

    As a non-viewer who only saw the clip of the “fuck”, I can safely say it’s laughably bad lol

    #257493

    Ben Saunders

    It’s not great, is it. It’s acted so poorly as well, the way she stresses the word fuck so much. We get it, you’re swearing, you’re edgy. People are having sex, that’s edgy. It all feels a bit Torchwood trying to set itself apart as an “adult” show, and just making everybody cringe in the process.

    #257511

    Ben Saunders

    #257520

    quinn_drummer

    Given we only have 10 episodes, this series has been really slow to start. We needed these 3 episodes to be condensed into 1 feature length pilot episode that had Picard getting into space by the end of it. A lot of nothing happened again this week and I was legit nodding off by the end of it.

    One thing I noticed I’ve been missing, and the show has been missing, is the side of Picard that is confident, in control and commanding. He’s spent the last couple of episodes flittering about earth practically begging people and not even coming up with good arguments for why they should help. He gave up on argument asking for a ship from Star Fleet way too easily and he has just generally not been himself.

    Hopefully that might change now they’ve got into space and he has a crew and such, but I’m starting to really not be all that bothered to find out.

    #257558

    Dave

    Just watched the third episode and, well, at least it’s getting going now. I was starting to get frustrated with the dragging pace too.

    This definitely seems to be one of those occasions where they’ve treated the series as the proverbial “ten hour movie”, which I think works better when you use the Netflix ‘dump’ model and make all the episodes available at once, but not so well for shows that are parcelled out weekly like this.

    #257559

    Dave

    And yes, the lawyers line made me laugh for Dwarf-related reasons too.

    #257560

    Dave

    I also watched Star Trek: Nemesis last night (as part of my ongoing ‘background reading’ for this show), and it fits right into that cliché description of just feeling like an extended episode of the TV show.

    It felt like it was all building to something bigger than you actually get with that slightly limp climax, although I guess for longtime viewers Data’s sacrifice probably had more resonance.

    (Plus, all that smug cosy stuff at the wedding at the beginning is a terrible way to open a movie.)

    At least TNG got one decent movie with First Contact.

    #257561

    quinn_drummer

    At least TNG got one decent movie with First Contact

    Generations isn’t that bad. Neither is Insurrection really, it just doesn’t do any more than the TV show would have done.

    #257562

    Dave

    I’ve seen bits of both and each time I’ve struggled to watch the whole thing.

    #257563

    Ben Saunders

    First Contact > Generations > Insurrection > Nemesis imo. Nemesis is the only one that’s shit in my books. Insurrection feels like a really long episode of the TV show which suddenly turns into Die Hard at the end, but all the movies have nice little Trek moments in them at least. Nemesis, as I said before, is just deeply unpleasant and seedy and dark and not “Star Trek” to me in a lot of places.

    #257564

    Offline

    I really wish current Star Trek would stop doing these fucking arcs. There isn’t enough plot to patch up the episodes so the writers have to wank all over the place with action scenes and extended dialogue scenes which go on and on but really say nothing other than to show how basic and unwelcoming half the characters are once you start writing anything more than exposition for them.

    Why is Picard fannying about with those malcontents? Every plot element in the show is just too convienent, too neatly in step with the last to drive Picard from A to B to C. Why is he suddenly emotional to the point of nausea? It’s a load of nonsense.

    Look at the TNG two parters, most are blinders that really needed the whole 90 minutes, now look at Discovery and Picard, same amount of plot, stretched out like nobody’s business.

    God I miss episodic sci-fi. 45 minutes, get in, set it all up, drive the story along, wrap it all up, you’re done, lovely.

    #257573

    quinn_drummer

    Look at the TNG two parters, most are blinders that really needed the whole 90 minutes

    Best of Both Worlds had about 15mins of interesting story the rest is unnecessary. Granted that’s in hindsight. The Riker will he won’t he leave and the annoying possible replacement commander … throw all that out as it is mostly irrelevant to this story.

    Picard is capture, assimilated, Riker orders fire, Picard is rescued and unassimilated. That’s the episode in 4 scenes. The rest can go in the bin.

    God I miss episodic sci-fi. 45 minutes, get in, set it all up, drive the story along, wrap it all up, you’re done, lovely.

    I know what you mean though. But its something we’re unlike to see again. Most TV is, for better or worse, driven by season long story arcs now. And I think part of Stewart agreeing to return was that is was an epic story, and not just him being a great captain for 10 episodes.

    It’s been a long start, but I’m hopefully the rest of the series settles in and gets better now he is off into space.

    #257580

    Dave

    I thought the Riker subplot in Best Of Both Worlds was some of the best stuff in the story. Plus I think you need it to set him up as replacement captain (with a new Number One) and create a genuine sense of jeopardy that Picard might not come back.

    #257581

    Pete Part Three

    What Dave said.

    That Riker subplot is character stuff, which is what always elevated TNG.

    #257582

    quinn_drummer

    I guess it works on first viewing, but in hindsight, when you know the outcome, it all feels rather unnecessary

    #257584

    Ben Saunders

    That applies to literally all of fiction, though. Once you know what happens, you know what happens. That’s why spoilers are so annoying. I watched Best of Both Worlds last year though, fully aware that everything would be fine again by the end of the story, and still found it to be an amazingly gripping, tense piece of storytelling. Part one, at least. Part two is… perfunctory. It does its job, narratively, but it really feels like they’re just going through the motions of getting Picard back and getting rid of the Borg, etc.

    #257589

    quinn_drummer

    Yeah I know, I am being a little facetious. The stuff with the commander woman is interesting, and I like how it affects Riker, with her getting right on his tits.

    It is the second ep thats a bit of a bore, for a first episode of a series too, not a lot happens. As you say, it just functions to get Picard back. Then you get the next episode which is just him swanning around his vineyard. Its a slow start to the series which, at that point in the shows run, had just started to find its feet.

    #257590

    Offline

    Ironically it’s the second episode I enjoyed the most as there was a natural unfolding of the expositional elements as the scenes progressed but new Trek can’t seem to get the blend quite right. Episodes either stutter to a deathly stillness, or there’s a horrendous amount of exposition in amongst the action scenes which are far more prevalent now as compared to the ’87 to ’00 era. There’s no simmering of the pot, no unfolding, more here it is, have at it, this is what you wanted right? Discovery S2 is a war criminal when it comes to padding up action scenes with exposition to make them not look like brainless distractions. God I fucking hate Discovery. Love Pike and Saru, everyone else can fuck off.

    Anyway, it’s ok, I mean, I like it, it’s clearly got a story to tell, anyway, we always have about 6433 episodes of Trek on Netflix to watch.

    Although saying that, I’m only watching Discovery S3 to see what the bloody hell the ships and aliens look like in the 32nd century. I mean, if the Enterprise-J is from the 25th century, what the hell will they have by the 4th millenium?

    #257591

    Ben Saunders

    >Then you get the next episode which is just him swanning around his vineyard
    I hope you’re being facetious here too

    #257592

    quinn_drummer

    I mean, if the Enterprise-J is from the 25th century, what the hell will they have by the 4th millenium

    They’ll have started to use emojis. Enterprise – Monkey See No Evil Emjoi. Enterprise – Girl Dancing in Red Frock Emoji.

    #257595

    Offline

    I bet ten dollarpounds that there will be a clunky bit of hand-waving about how some great temporal or dimensional war in the 26th century brought on by too much fannying about with forces that cannot be comprehended effectively took the galaxy back to the dark ages in terms of technological advancement because by the 32nd century, even the most basic of shuttlecraft should be able to take apart a starship from the 24th century with comparitive ease. Starships shouldn’t exist apart then from the extra-galactic expeditions that the 1701-J was enjoying. Time travel is heavily sanctioned and used only in official capacities by the Federation and restricted by the temporal prime directive. Dimensional travel is easy enough but doesn’t seem to affect dimensions on a macro level. The galaxy is able to be traversed in mere moments as seen by Braxton in his shuttle of all things.

    It’s like Batman v. Superman, when it first announced, my first question was how do you stunt Superman enough to be manhandled by ol’ Bruce Wayne? You can put the Batman in a mech-suit as he was but it only brings his overall strength up by 10x or so whereas if Superman was inclined, he could turn Batman into atoms in an instant. The correct route was to have Bruce bring Superman down to human level with a good whiff of kryptonite. So what will be the kryptonite of the 32nd century?

    Something has to give, a 23rd century starship in the 32nd century, knowing that the 1701-J is travelling to other galaxies in the 26th century, and timeships are able to go anywhere and anywhen by the 31st century. Either Discovery is quickly scrapped or for whatever reason it is on par with an extremely stunted galaxy.

    Or as with Discovery in terms of writing, they’ll ignore all that and Michael Burnham will give another horribly vacuous speech about emotion and pride and love and how our ability to bring the ideals of the Federation into the future will ensure their survival.

    God, I need a drink.

    #257596

    Dave

    Or episode one of the new season will start with them returning to their own time and saying “wow, the 32nd century was CRAZY wasn’t it?!” without giving further details.

    #257597

    Dax101

    Discovery wasn’t very good. Series 1 and 2 are abit of a mess really.

    I am enjoying Picard though. its slower pace and sense of groundedness is a breath of fresh air in some ways.

    The only things that stand out as a negative is the swearing and maybe some modern lingo thats very of the time. other than that. i seen worse Star Trek in the original 1960s to 2004 run.

    #257598

    Offline

    Yes compared to the campness of TOS, a few swears and contemporary references isn’t so bad but they feel much more for us the audience than natural elements of late 24th century Earth. Star Trek revolved around a naval ship and staff in the midst of their mission but not even Riker took the odd puff of a vape? Geordi never cursed the engineering deck blind when the core wasn’t doing what he wanted it to do? I suppose when you have a holodeck and near a limitless ability to be wherever you want and whatever you want to be, our vices look utterly tame by comparison.

    I like Picard, I do, and I do hope now that we’re off on the main mission it’ll start to feel more comfortable with itself but I’m poisoned by Discovery. Discovery is the utter nadir of Star Trek, a testement to modern TV writing that when it even begins to take its eye off strong story, strong characterisations and strong motive, it crumbles into itself and shows how lazy the writers can be. Emotion, action and mysterious, vague nothings is not story. Story is story, everything else is decoration.

    Give us a Picard Marooned, go on, strong writing, character moments and plot driven by the surroundings, oh it’d be a real corker. All shows could do with a Marooned.

    We are spoilt, perhaps I shouldn’t complain, but Star Trek and Red Dwarf gave us such wonderful insights into the human condition through the use of setting and ensemble characters. I don’t like to see it all go to waste.

    And don’t get fucking started about Doctor Who.

    #257648

    tombow

    there’s a reviewer on youtube who hates First Contact because of the way it messes with the Borg mythos and makes them less faceless, giving them a queen etc. I can see his point, but it’s still 100X more entertaining than the other TNG films IMO. I love First Contact and I’ve never managed to even remember what happens in Insurrection despite seeing it 2 or 3 times over the years. I remember something about a baddie with peeling skin and the characters having to do some long walk over hills with a group of people. But thats it.

    #257651

    Dax101

    First Contact is seen as one of the better Star Trek movies, and rightly so really. but If First Contact was released today, it would be seen as the creative team ruining Star Trek. alot of the decisions would stir the fanbase crazy. fans would hate that there was a Borg Queen and see it as bad writing. fans would hate Picards desire for revenge seeing it as out of character.

    But since it was released in 1996 among what was a fairly Star Trek busy era with Voyager and DS9. it was just seen as expanding. while today, after the long hiatus, it would be seen as replacing.

    #257663

    quinn_drummer

    A lot of fans do point to First Contact as the start of ruining the Borg, and really hate the idea of Borg Queen’s and such.

    Picard wanting revenge gets a pass because it’s addressed quite well. It shows he still haven’t fully processed what happened to him and he has some bloody big and well warranted to issues to work through. Which is part of what the film, for him, is about.

    It’s telling that no-one had posted about this week’s Picard yet … myself included.

    It was pretty shit wasn’t it?

    Yet another episode devoted to setting things up and putting a team together. Picard starts a bar crawl and a sword happy Romulan refugee saves him. Picard, the great diplomat specifically went looking for someone capable of slicing the head clean off a Romulan.

    And then finish on a space battle so that you can dangle Seven of Nine in front of us to tempt us back next week because you know the show hasn’t moved anywhere since it started.

    #257664

    quinn_drummer

    Bar brawl not bar crawl, ffs!!

    If he has started a bar crawl that might have been more interesting

    #257672

    Dax101

    >A lot of fans do point to First Contact as the start of ruining the Borg, and really hate the idea of Borg Queen’s and such.

    It did not stop them continuing the idea in Voyager. except with First contact the Borg were sorta treated like zombies, once they are beaten they are better off dead. at least according to Picard… while Voyager showed that Borg could be recovered… oopsy Picard.

    #257673

    Dave

    Disappointed by this week’s episode. Just as it seemed like we were building some forward momentum at the end of last week, this episode killed all that.

    I really would rather it had been about a bar crawl. That might have at least been entertaining.

    Again, I think this wouldn’t be so bad if it had been released as a Netflix style ‘dump’ of all the episodes at once, as you could have raced through these first four episodes in an evening. But as a weekly show it’s really dragging.

    #257676

    Ben Saunders

    There are plenty of people who dislike First Contact and how it handles the Borg and Picard, and there are even more people who dislike what Voyager did with the Borg, turning them into a relatively easily defeatable recurring enemy, whereas in their first appearance they were nigh unstoppable. Giving the Borg a queen is arguably necessary to do an entire movie about them, and I thought Picard’s rage was pretty well done, and is (relatively) true to how ptsd works.

    Fuck Picard (the show), I didn’t bother watching the latest episode. Let me know when literally anything happens.

    #257678

    tombow

    I’ve just remembered that the fantasy nexus or whatever it was in Generations seemed really similar to Better than Life to me. In fact on first viewing I was reaching for the phone to call Rob and Doug’s lawyers when something happened to make my cry, and it was certainty not something that would have happened on the classic 60s show. I think soon I had “got” what TNG films were and I was soon crying all the time.

    #257690

    Ben Saunders

    An interesting note with Generations being canon – that means that Picard went back to the vineyard in which his family fucking burned to death horribly to live out his retirement. And he dreams about Data, instead of his brother dying horribly in the house he doubtless had to have repaired and the charred corpses of his family taken away.

    #257713

    Nick R

    So far I’ve been enjoying the bits of this focused on Picard; less so the Borg Cube sections; least of all the SECRET BADDIES CONSPIRACY stuff.

    But as Dave says above, episode 4 killed a lot of the momentum. Hopefully Space Legolas’s resemblance to, er, Legolas will become less distracting as the series goes on.

    #257729

    Plastic Percy

    I kinda understand the need for the Borg Queen in the film. You need a villain to explain their plans, set up their motivation and provide a climax to the film. Its a bit like how one of the criticisms for ‘The Motion Picture’ is that there’s no real villain – V’Ger is just sort of there with its own agenda that isn’t really explained in any great detail until the last ten minutes of the film. Even the Ilia duplicate is fairly vague about what V’Ger actually wants.

    I think it might have been interesting to watch ‘The Best of Both Worlds, Part I’ in context. As I understand it, there was a popular rumour that Patrick Stewart wasn’t going to return for the fourth season due to his initial three year contract being up. Picard would have died, Riker would assume command and Commander Shelby would step in as first officer.

    Its also quite interesting that the initial plan for Picard’s time as Locutus would leave a physical mark. His arm would have been amputated to accomodate Locutus’ cybernetic claw, and there was an idea to suggest he’d received an artificial limb in the form of makeup. This can be seen best in Rick Sternbach’s concept art here: http://i.imgur.com/rt3SzQj.jpg.

    #257734

    Ben Saunders

    Episode five is a bit better, particularly towards the end, slight spoilers ensue:

    1) It’s really weird to have a recast Maddox mingling with all these actors reprising their roles from 30 years ago

    2) There is on VERY Star Trek scene in this episode, which I loved, with a lovely little musical sting… which is kind of ruined by the following scene reminding you that this isn’t actually Your Dad’s Trek

    3) I called what happens at the end of this episode about three weeks ago. Very obvious

    #257735

    Dave

    Oh, that’s a shame that Maddox has been recast. I watched his previous appearance recently and was expecting the same actor to return.

    #257749

    quinn_drummer

    That was a much more interesting episode than anything that came before it. Actually felt like it had a purpose and progressed the stroy along.

    Love seeing Jeri Ryan back in the role of Seven, and seeing how 20 years back from the Delta Quadrant has changed her. All of Seven and Picard’s interaction were really nice, especially at the end when they have a brief moment discussing their humanity post Borg.

    It is interesting how the rest of Picard’s “crew” think of him as having used to have been Borg, like he was a Borg for several years and not just a couple of days.

    Really sad to see Seven have to kill Icheb, wish we’d got just a little more time with them two before it happened.

    Love Picard pretending to be a one eyed French criminal/priate/trader. That was fun. Sort of showed a mellowing out of Picard post Star Fleet.

    I do not give a fuck about Raffi and her son. That scene felt like it was reaching for an emotional reaction that it just hadn’t earned yet.

    Interesting also that we’ve had the “Anges is a planet” reveal already. Didn’t expect that until later on. And to dispense with Maddox so quickly, considering they’ve spent 5 episodes setting up finding him, kinda felt he’d be more integeral to the overal plot and resolve.

    No scenes on the Borg cube either, which is good because if they’d tried to squeeze them into this episode it would have been to its detriment.

    Reference to Quark’s on Free Cloud which is cool. Though as Ben pointed out to me last night, would have been nice to see some Ferengi working for Vajazzle or whatever he name is, Bejazel? Seemed a perfect opportunity for them.

    Few janky bits here and there. Vajazzle/Bejazel really felt like they wanted to hire a naked Lady Gaga and couldn’t. Some awkward editing choices which meant the flashback and return to present day wasn’t clear. And Vazazzle knowing “the famous Admiral Picard” but not fucking recognising him because he is wearing an eye patch is some Lois Lane level stupidity there.

    More of this sort of thing please. I wish we’d gotten this sooner so we hadn’t had to sit through 4 hours of tedious nothingness.

    #257756

    Ben Saunders

    Agnes is a planet? Now that’s a twist.

    #257758

    Dave

    Yep, the latest episode was the best episode yet, for me. Lots of fun, a proper story and not afraid to be a bit silly and hammy for the sake of a good yarn.

    Although I did end up wishing the show was following the guest character rather than the regular cast, which maybe isn’t the best.

    #257830

    Ben Saunders

    Watching episode six.
    Why is there so much SEX in this show? Why do we see so many FEET? We even see the feet of a little girl. Why?

    #257831

    Ben Saunders

    These fucking incestuous romulans are some of the most uninteresting characters in anything
    All of their interactions are the same!
    Why does she get shocked when she hits her? He’s done it 11 times!

    #257832

    Ben Saunders

    spoilers

    1) Why would you gas an android, just use a disruptor bro. To avoid exactly what happens in this episode.
    2) What the fuck did Elrond or whatever his name mean by “I won’t need a few minutes”. That doesn’t make any sense in context, the writer’s just thought it sounded cool.

    #257833

    Ben Saunders

    also

    The only reason hot Romulan boy gased Shoji instead of shooting her with a disruptor is explicitly so that she doesn’t die immediately and can escape. Stupid.

    #257834

    Dax101

    >Why is there so much SEX in this show? Why do we see so many FEET? We even see the feet of a little girl. Why?

    There is less then there was in Star Trek: Enterprise. They spent alot of time oiling each other in that show..

    Then again this is Star Trek. you seen some of the outfits in the 60s show? DS9 was fairly open to alot of cleavage and whatever.

    #257835

    Ben Saunders

    You can’t defend something new by pointing to something old that was specifically heavily criticised for the exact thing you’re attempting to say was the norm/ok back then. The sexual shit in Enterprise was always obviously a ratings ploy (which didn’t work), and nobody liked it back then. DS9 had Dabo Girls but they were just window dressing, TOS was made in the 60s so of course women looked feminine and sexy, but again it was mostly window dressing. Here we have entire scenes of attractive young people whispering into each other’s ears and getting all horny, and we have those incestuous Romulans getting all touchy-feely and BDMS-y. It just makes my skin crawl. The sexualisation of women in older material is an unfortunate by-product of the times the shows were made in, but for the most part it was just background stuff and we had absolutely nothing like what we get in Picard now. You could argue that it’s because of old timey censorship laws preventing them from doing this stuff, but that’s a dishonest argument because it assumes that they would have had constant steamy sex scenes on TNG if the network execs would have just let them, which I don’t believe is something you can just go ahead and say.

    #257865

    Dave

    I didn’t find this week’s quite as entertaining as last week, but at least stuff happened. Some nice little scenes and once Picard got on the cube it felt like things really got going. Bit of a flat ending though.

    #257866

    Ben Saunders

    Literally as soon as you saw that the guy was trying to gas Soji rather than just shooting her or stabbing her, you knew how the rest of the scene was going to play out, so there was no real reason to extend it for as long as they did. But that’s Picard in a nutshell – there’s no need to extend it as much as they are.

    #257867

    Dax101

    I assume he didn’t shoot her because he knew she had to die, but he didn’t actually want to be the one to kill her. he did not look particularly pleased with himself after he shut her inside.

    #257868

    Ben Saunders

    That’s classic Obi-Wan/Anakin shit – you don’t want to kill them, so you stand there and watch them burn horrifically for several minutes while feeling bad about yourself, because the plot requires you can’t actually kill them.

    #257985

    Ridley

    “First, take this.”
    *noms*
    “It’s a suppository.”

    #257987

    quinn_drummer

    I kinda really enjoyed this weeks episode, for somewhat obvious reasons.

    It basically stopped the entire story in its tracks and didn’t move forward any at all, but it was really really nice to see the old gang back together. Seeing Picard, Riker and Troi back together and interacting and just having conversations was so good. And really, it sort of highlights what’s wrong with this series over all. Picard on his own with a bunch of mavricks flying from one plot point to another, from one action sequence to another, isn’t what I want to see week in week out.

    Seeing Picard sit down with people he trusts and talk through the situation he is in, be offered good sensible advice and all that stuff, that’s what this series should have been about.

    And this episodes proves they can do it, they just absolutely chose not to.

    Frakes and Sirtis haven’t lost it at all. I immediately felt Riker and Troi in their performances. You wouldn’t think it had been nearly 20 years since they last properly portrayed these characters (end of Enterprise aside). The dialogue felt true to them too. Especially Troi who gets her counselling on.

    I’m glad too that we got a lot of their history and what they’ve been up to the last 2 decades. Having a kid who grew up on a starship but unfortunately died. Having another kid who seems absolutely super cool and awesome (though perhaps knows way to much about Data having never actually met him).

    I love how their house is this nice idillic cabin in the woods, but then RIker is right at home on the bridge shouting shield commands at the computer and to scan for vessels etc. That’s something we’ve never really seen in Star Trek before. Starship tech used in domestic households and it totally makes sense for a top of the line security system point of view.

    I know this is something of an issue with episodic tv, and the episode did deal with this, but Soji has literally, only minutes ago, found out she is a Synth, and yet seems quite happy to go along with this idea. There’s very little denial. She just accepts it, whilst being extremely skeptical of everyone else around her … but also not! She has a heart to heart with Troi about how she can’t trust anyone, even Troi. Struck me as a bit of because it seemed like the sort of conversation one would only have with people they trust.

    What’s telling so far is that I haven’t mentioned any of the Borg Cube or Rios/Raffi/Agnes stuff. And that’s because I could not care about it one bit. Of course they fucking killed Hugh. No character in this show is safe. Icheb, Maddox, Hugh, Doji … there is just a trail of dead bodied and everywhere Picard goes.

    I’m still really not seeing the point of Elron. He is very much a character only in the show to do some sword fighting. Getting left behind almost as soon as he got picked up.

    When did writers forget how to and stop writing interesting reveals as part of story telling, and just start dumping expositional scenes and flash backs onto us? That opening flashback told us little more than we already knew anyway, and only served to the writers catching us up with something they knew we needed to know now, but hadn’t already explained earlier because … why I don’t know.

    One bit that did genuinely make me laugh, was the EMH. “Please explain the nature of the medical emer…oh bloody hell”

    So yeah, really good episode mostly because it does everything the other episodes don’t. Nice respite from a tedious series so far and I know we’ll be back to that shit for the last 3 episodes.

    At least for whatever reason I want to go back and watch it each week despite not liking it much. I actually gave up on Discovery 3 or 4 episodes into a season 1 and only watched through it all just before season 2 started. And I still think (Mirror Universe storyline aside) that season is the worst thing Star Trek has every produced.

    #258042

    Plastic Percy

    Soji’s denial of reality – everything around her is an illusion or a trick – sits fine with me. Nobody can predict how any one individual will respond to learning in the space of a few hours that they’re not Human, their past is a lie, their boyfriend is their executioner, their sister is dead and they’re an outlawed form of life considered obscene in the eyes of most civilisations.

    #258066

    Dave

    I just caught up with the last couple of episodes. It really is two hours of plot squeezed into ten, isn’t it? So slow and long-winded.

    And yet I’m still watching for some reason – partly sunk cost at this point, but I am still genuinely interested to see how the story plays out.

    #258067

    Ben Saunders

    I was on holiday so I’m two episodes behind now and not sure I’m ever going to bother catching up.

    #258068

    quinn_drummer

    theres just enjoy vaguely interesting things happening each week to keep me watching, even if overall I think it’s all a bit crap.

    I’m enjoying things like Seven of Nine and Riker and Troi etc to see what they have in store next.

    The fact there are those things still keeping me going, and I haven’t given up yet, tells me I at least think this is better than series 1 of Discovery, which I quickly gave up on and then had to catch up with (at great pain) before series 2.

    Hopefully, as with Discovery, series 2 will be infinitely better. Which would be true of a lot of Star Trek. Poor start but better once it finds its feet.

    What I do worry about however, is where the series goes once this synth story is done. Discovery, being a ship and a crew could do anything it wanted. Picard, a lone character, being dragged into yet another mystery he alone has to solve could be too much. One thing that does worry me is that it becomes a Picard and Data buddy show (much like how the films did) as I fully expect a human synth Data to be found at the end of all this.

    #258069

    Dave

    It does feel like a Data of some sort is coming, doesn’t it.

    #258070

    quinn_drummer

    Yeah, there’s two things that lead me to think that.

    1. we see a flash of him in the end of the world/universe scenes the Romulan’s see.

    2. why would these two synth sisters, Doji and Soji, be modelled after Data’s painting? Why would Maddox do that? It much more likely, if he has access to a part of Data, that’d he’d bring Data back to life. And then in time, Data – having always wanted his own children – would build the two girls based off of his painting.

    #258071

    Dave

    I also feel like the show wouldn’t go to the trouble of bringing him back just for the brief earlier cameos we saw.

    #258074

    quinn_drummer

    yeah 100%. Patrick said he’d only return to Picard for the right story. I can imagine that story being “Picard goes on a mission and ends up finding his friend Data alive and well”

    Also, given Seven has come back for a second episode, I can’t help but think Riker at least will make a second appearance. Probably called into reserves as part of the fleet that being sent to help Picard.

    #258075

    Dave

    Is it me or did Riker look like a giant next to Picard? Maybe it’s just the relative frailty of Patrick Stewart now, but it was almost Hagrid-level.

    #258120

    quinn_drummer

    Frakes has been a big man for years now. Certainly end of Enterprise he was growing outwards.

    No-one would have guessed it was Dr Song’s son they would find, because no-one would have ever said Soong would have a son!!

    #258163

    Dave

    At this rate I’m half expecting the final episode to see the cast turning to camera and explicitly telling the viewer “I’m sorry you wasted ten hours of you life on this, I promise the next season will be better.”

    #258165

    Ben Saunders

    And then it won’t be.

    #258171

    Plastic Percy

    I don’t think the story has been about saving Data, more about preserving his legacy.

    #258181

    quinn_drummer

    The series has been about a phat pay cheque for Stewart et al

    #258184

    Ridley

    #258185

    Ben Saunders

    Episodes 7-9 of Picard are much better than the earlier shit – I have nothing better to do in light of this virus bullshit so I thought I’d skip through them. I still maintain that you could easily chop 4 episodes’ worth of runtime from this whole thing and not actually lose anything. The whole thing with the synth planet feels really bizarre and a little confusing, as well. For anybody else who has abandoned this show – you can just start the entire show at episode 7 since they recap everything that’s happened thus far several times. But I’m not even sure I’d recommend doing that, unless you’re just morbidly curious like I am.

    #258186

    Ben Saunders

    >That’s something we’ve never really seen in Star Trek before. Starship tech used in domestic households
    I’m almost certain there’s an episode of DS9 with something like that

    #258188

    Pete Part Three

    i stalled on this for weeks and then resumed on hearing about the Riker and Troi stuff. I found that relatively wathchable but then it was just back to the same old plodding shite. I switch it on and then struggle to take any kind of interest in these awful characters and glacial plotting. Then there’s a cliff-hanger that’s moderately interesting and I’m back for the next episode. Buh.

    #258189

    Dave

    Plodding shite with moderately interesting cliffhangers sums up the show perfectly.

    I often find myself literally falling asleep during the back half of the episodes and having to force myself to watch to the end.

    #258263

    Ben Saunders

    Just finished the series.

    What the fuck was that shite?

    #258264

    Ben Saunders

    Why did Kurtzman and company think anybody would want to see that?

    #258267

    quinn_drummer

    I fucking hate this show. I fucking hate I watched all of it.

    10 hours of self fulfilling prophecy and all it takes is one brief Skype chat between Picard and Soji where he basically says “don’t do it” to resolve the entire situation. And then like that the ban on synths is lifted to no fanfare.

    Absolutely fuck off and do one. URGH!!!

    #258268

    Ben Saunders

    Star Trek — dead
    Doctor Who — dead
    Star Wars — dead

    Me — still watching this SHITE

    #258295

    Ridley

    And then like that the ban on synths is lifted to no fanfare.

    It’s not like Picard now being one could be conductive to drama or anything.

    I don’t have much invested in this franchise so meh. I did like the Data stuff but an episode or so ago I realised I’d rather the show mostly revolved around Rios and a crew of himself for story around a ban on artificial people.

    #258297

    Dave

    Yeah, this was a poor ending. Obviously they wanted their big Picard/Data scene, and that’s fine (other than Data now looking like something out of a horror movie for some reason – the eyes!) but then everything else seemed to be resolved with a handwave.

    The entire plot gets sorted out with a quick chat and the big nasty threat goes away somehow, the ban on synths is suddenly lifted with no explanation because there are only minutes left in the episode, and Picard is now in a robot-Picard body that everyone just shrugs off as though nothing has really changed. Oh, and Riker is suddenly captaining a spaceship again.

    Nothing really feels like it mattered for this whole season. It’s just a bunch of stuff that happened.

    #258299

    Ben Saunders

    I did have my little boomer fan moment of sheer ecstasy seeing Riker turn up commanding a starship, to be honest — before I realised I hated the bridge design, and something about the way it was shot/visual fidelity made it look like a fan film

    #258300

    Dave

    For boomers the big fan moment would have been seeing Kirk turn up.

    I look forward to him turning up next season in a robot body too, and him and Picard referring to themselves as The Good Robot Us -es.

    #258301

    Ridley

    THE TREK TO SPACE

    Seven: This is for Hugh.

    Brydon: Oh. Wow. Gosh. I-I-I–

    #258304

    quinn_drummer

    Star Trek seems to have as much trouble killing characters off as Moffat did in Doctor Who.

    Spock dies, is resurrected in the next film, and then dies off screen 34 years later.

    Shatner’s Kirk dies twice in the same film (yeah for all intents and purposes, getting pulled into the Nexus after a hole is ripped in the side of your ship is death)

    Pine’s Kirk died and was resurrected in the same film.

    Data died 20 years ago, is resurrected in a Matrix and is then killed again.

    Picard dies, and is resurrected in the same episode.

    Seven of Nine died and Janeway travels back in time to change the past to ensure she doesn’t.

    Harry Kim died and then they pulled another version of him from a different timeline.

    There’s probably others dotted around the series but those are the main ones I can think of.

    #258305

    JamesTC

    You could throw loads of deaths and resurrections in. The whole crew of the Enterprise D and Voyager in Cause and Effect and Timeless respectively. Add Year of Hell and Yesterday’s Enterprise too. Plus the episode Twilight and E Squared for the NX-01 crew.

    Most of the deaths and resurrections are part of particular plots rather than a character being killed off and then coming back much later so I would say they don’t really count. When it is set up by the plot in a purposeful way then it is fine by me. Tasha Yar and Daniels come to mind as the exceptions although Tasha Yar was only resurrected as part of a specific plot.

    #258306

    performingmonkey

    I did have my little boomer fan moment of sheer ecstasy seeing Riker turn up commanding a starship, to be honest — before I realised I hated the bridge design, and something about the way it was shot/visual fidelity made it look like a fan film

    Apparently, as some people have pointed out, it was shot on the Discovery bridge (with a few things moved around), while Frakes was directing a season 3 episode, which is why it looks a little odd.

    Tbh I think they really blew the finale. The fact it made me not even care about Picard dying, or, indeed, the Harry/Dumbledore-esque scene between him and Data, when both of those moments should have been huge, just goes to show how poorly executed and thought out it all was.

    Way too many characters, way too many factions and plotlines. No true bad guy or good guy. You even feel what happened offscreen was 10x more interesting than the action they showed. A 2 hour movie with half the number of players may well have worked a LOT better.

    #258307

    quinn_drummer

    A 2 hour movie with half the number of players may well have worked a LOT better.

    My idea for this is to basically cut episodes 2-9.

    Don’t kill off Dahj, have come to Picard saying they need to go find her sister, he sets off with her and basically go direct to the planet the synths are on. Have them meet Soji there. Cut out all the crap with the Borg Cube which was just a destination that spent 5 episodes getting to and then used for a cool crash sequence a couple of episodes later. Soji provides Dahj the vision of the synth destruction or whatever it is that the Romulan’s are keeping secret. Dahj flips, sets about bringing the other synths from all over the universe to kill all organic life. Picard has to deal with this in a hopefully better way than a 30second Skype call, and ultimately saves the day.

    He doesn’t die, he doesn’t meet Data and euthanise him, it’s just a story about Picard trying to stop synths killing everyone and justifying the ban they’ve been placed under.

    A nice, 90mins of story telling, cutting out all the crap in the middle.

    #258308

    Hamish

    I have not seen any of this, but Picard being resurrected in a robot body sounds awfully Shatnerverse. It sure does not help this seem like any less of a vanity project.

    #258309

    Ridley

    […] it’s just a story about Picard trying to stop synths killing everyone and justifying the ban they’ve been placed under.

    Tad genocidey.

    #258316

    NoFro

    My partner and I watched this. Not a Trekkie/Trekker so wasn’t that interested in watching it but started off thinking the first episode was fine enough and then very quickly lost interest. The new characters were not at all engaging. As someone who hasn’t made it through a full Star Trek episode before this, even I found that the energy went up massively whenever the returning cast were on screen together.

    #258324

    Offline

    My end of season review –

    A load of fucking nonsense. The tale of a bunch of mentally ill sociopathic sad sacks and druggies who push an old man around when he clearly needs a lie down and a cup of earl grey and there’s some fleshy androids who look like cast-offs at a local Trek-con and a shit end boss and they even pulled the ol’ soap trope of introducing a new family member even though there was zero mention or even glimpse of them over 33 years of TNG canon.

    Oh and Seven is a lesbian now.

    And they killed Data again. And I love him. And I don’t want him to go.

    Well, see you all for Discovery YEAR 3000 LIMITED EDITION DLC.

    Cunts.

    #258354

    Pete Part Three

    This show seemed to want address the events of Nemesis. One of the biggest missteps in that movie was them killing off Data, but then hedging their bets with B4.

    This show starts with them doing the same thing with the twin girls. And then ends with them doing the same thing again…twice. (Spiner can pop up endlessly as Soong, just as much as Stewart can in his golem body).

    And this bullshit comes after after a genuinely wonderful scene about “mortality being finite to give lives meaning”. Could the writers not have read that scene back to themselves and realised that, by the same logic, this backpedaling of what should be finite choices makes *storytelling* pretty empty?

    If you want a Season 2, don’t give Picard an illness. Not fucking complicated.

    Done with this bollocks.

    #258363

    Ridley

    If you want a Season 2, don’t give Picard an illness. Not fucking complicated.

    Or make him immortal as the cost of cheating death.

    #258368

    Offline

    Picard seemed happy enough being dead, he should’ve just stayed with Data and faded into the ether.

    But fuck consistent, meaningful character arcs, CBS needs that sweet streaming lucre.

    Season 2 is going to be about some fucking shit like an alternate universe Picard and not even Q can help because fuck shit wank cunt piss arse knob dick.

    I hope Michael Burnham dies in Discovery and Saru ingests her whole as is tradition in his culture.

    Then shits her out and Spock pees on the poo and then flings it at the Enterprise hull.

    Shittyprise.

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