Star Trek: Picard

[Ben Kirkham]

I loved the first episode! So far, everything I hoped it would be. It’s gorgeous, nostalgic yet very fresh and new. And Stewart is as stunning as ever.

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

The RLM review did a great job of going into how modern Star Trek spits in the face of old Star Trek, turning the Federation into a bunch of anti-alien space xenophobes, despite being shown on multiple occasions to have a non-human president, etc. They have a lot of very valid points criticising the whole thing, even if their overall tone is a jokey one where they basically set out to make fun of it. They liked The Mandalorian, which at least goes to show that they don’t just hate everything new for being new, though. They also cover how Picard and Data were never really friends, until the end of First Contact and again at the end of Nemesis, and how Picard actually lost faith in Data several times. Also the old Picard from The Drumhead et al would have never cracked during that interview from that xenophobic lady.

Also the general plot of a star suddenly going supernova and the Romulans not having already evacuated themselves by the point it eventually did is ridiculous, but that’s more of a critique of Star Trek 2009, and you can’t really blame Picard for having to follow on from that. But again, the idea that the Federation from the TOS/TNG era wouldn’t help relocate the Romulans after their fucking sun exploded is ridiculous, and it’s clearly supposed to be a commentary on modern American politics, etc.

[Ben Saunders]

I saw somebody comment the other day that Picard actually appears to be older than Patrick Stewart is in real life, you watch Stewart in interviews and stuff and he seems fine, but in Picard he genuinely seems like a frail geriatric who is one hip-breaking fall in his living room away from having to go to hospital and never leaving.

[Dave]

I think it’s called ‘acting’.

[Dave]

Anyway, watched ‘Datalore’ today and… well, it’s not great is it. It’s like Star Trek’s version of Beyond A Joke.

[Ben Saunders]

You can make him a frail geriatric or you can make him dodge laser blasts and get thrown 20 feet by an explosion

[Veni]

Maybe it’s the higher definition cameras capturing his facial fatigue. That, and Stewart does have a beard in most interviews I’ve seen and beards legitimately age you down.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Me with any facial hair and I look my age.

Me clean shaven and honestly I have to hide from paedophiles

[Veni]

It’s more so for older people such as those 40+, though I doubt you’re blending into Gen Z crowds with your This is England looks lol

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I feel like I’ve just watched 45mins of nothing happening.

[Dave]

Cheeky fucker.

[Dave]

The “__ days without an assimilation” sign made me laugh, and felt like something out of Red Dwarf.

[Veni]

Lol what’s the context for that

[Dave]

It’s a sign on board an old dead Borg cube that has been overtaken by non-Borg people who are experimenting on/performing autopsies on old dead Borgified people.

[Ben Saunders]

God this is so DULL.
I don’t even want to complain about it because it bores me so much. Next.

[Ben Saunders]

NOTHING HAPPENED
JUST EMPTY MYSTERIOUS DIALOGUE

>There’s an enemy within Starfleet
Wow I’m sooooooooooo surprised

[Ben Saunders]

Gratuitous sex and swearing on TV hasn’t been edgy since Torchwood, it was embarrassing back then as well

[Ridley]

I thought the swearing usefully illustrated the outrage to Picard’s request tee bee haytch.

[Dave]

The early swearing was a bit silly though.

[Ben Saunders]

That’s an extremely cheap way to illustrate that, there’s this thing called “acting” that some people can do which is typically used to convey emotion in a scene.

For real though it does feel really cheap and a bit “ooh look at us, this ain’t your dad’s Trek, it’s serious!”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I actually think the “fuck” we get from the admiral was warranted, she is actually seething with anger and it was used in the right context.

The feck from the Romulan was a bit pointless.

I don’t mind swearing in Trek, granted it is more gratuitous now and it does feel like its done deliberately to stand out … but its also got the benefit of not being on at 6pm on a weekday evening so it can be a bit more sweary.

It also shows these people as being a bit more human and relatable, which is something that has gradually crept in as the different series have progressed. The TNG crew were all very prim and proper, almost austere. Only liking Shakespeare and opera and jazz and stuf. I liked that when we got to DS9 O’Brien and Bashir are show to go out on the piss and have fun in the holodecks and stuff, then with Voyager Paris is shown to have an interest in old black and white sci-fi shows.

With this new round of Trek, it’s showing that, whilst humanity has progressed, they’re still fundamentally human and they swear when they’re angry or excited. They’re not so enlightened that they’re unrelatable. And besides, even Picard swore in French occasionally.

[Dave]

I just finished watching I, Borg as part of my crash-course in TNG to help me better appreciate Picard.

II quite enjoyed it – most of the TNG episodes recommended for this exercise have been pretty good, and I’m becoming a fan of the show, although I guess that’s the advantage of having other people pick out the highlights from seven seasons’ worth of episodes.

One thing that did make me chuckle though is the name Hugh, which will only ever remind me of The Armando Iannucci Shows.

[Veni]

As a non-viewer who only saw the clip of the “fuck”, I can safely say it’s laughably bad lol

[Ben Saunders]

It’s not great, is it. It’s acted so poorly as well, the way she stresses the word fuck so much. We get it, you’re swearing, you’re edgy. People are having sex, that’s edgy. It all feels a bit Torchwood trying to set itself apart as an “adult” show, and just making everybody cringe in the process.

[Ben Saunders]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Given we only have 10 episodes, this series has been really slow to start. We needed these 3 episodes to be condensed into 1 feature length pilot episode that had Picard getting into space by the end of it. A lot of nothing happened again this week and I was legit nodding off by the end of it.

One thing I noticed I’ve been missing, and the show has been missing, is the side of Picard that is confident, in control and commanding. He’s spent the last couple of episodes flittering about earth practically begging people and not even coming up with good arguments for why they should help. He gave up on argument asking for a ship from Star Fleet way too easily and he has just generally not been himself.

Hopefully that might change now they’ve got into space and he has a crew and such, but I’m starting to really not be all that bothered to find out.

[Dave]

Just watched the third episode and, well, at least it’s getting going now. I was starting to get frustrated with the dragging pace too.

This definitely seems to be one of those occasions where they’ve treated the series as the proverbial “ten hour movie”, which I think works better when you use the Netflix ‘dump’ model and make all the episodes available at once, but not so well for shows that are parcelled out weekly like this.

[Dave]

And yes, the lawyers line made me laugh for Dwarf-related reasons too.

[Dave]

I also watched Star Trek: Nemesis last night (as part of my ongoing ‘background reading’ for this show), and it fits right into that cliché description of just feeling like an extended episode of the TV show.

It felt like it was all building to something bigger than you actually get with that slightly limp climax, although I guess for longtime viewers Data’s sacrifice probably had more resonance.

(Plus, all that smug cosy stuff at the wedding at the beginning is a terrible way to open a movie.)

At least TNG got one decent movie with First Contact.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

At least TNG got one decent movie with First Contact

Generations isn’t that bad. Neither is Insurrection really, it just doesn’t do any more than the TV show would have done.

[Dave]

I’ve seen bits of both and each time I’ve struggled to watch the whole thing.

[Ben Saunders]

First Contact > Generations > Insurrection > Nemesis imo. Nemesis is the only one that’s shit in my books. Insurrection feels like a really long episode of the TV show which suddenly turns into Die Hard at the end, but all the movies have nice little Trek moments in them at least. Nemesis, as I said before, is just deeply unpleasant and seedy and dark and not “Star Trek” to me in a lot of places.

[Offline]

I really wish current Star Trek would stop doing these fucking arcs. There isn’t enough plot to patch up the episodes so the writers have to wank all over the place with action scenes and extended dialogue scenes which go on and on but really say nothing other than to show how basic and unwelcoming half the characters are once you start writing anything more than exposition for them.

Why is Picard fannying about with those malcontents? Every plot element in the show is just too convienent, too neatly in step with the last to drive Picard from A to B to C. Why is he suddenly emotional to the point of nausea? It’s a load of nonsense.

Look at the TNG two parters, most are blinders that really needed the whole 90 minutes, now look at Discovery and Picard, same amount of plot, stretched out like nobody’s business.

God I miss episodic sci-fi. 45 minutes, get in, set it all up, drive the story along, wrap it all up, you’re done, lovely.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Look at the TNG two parters, most are blinders that really needed the whole 90 minutes

Best of Both Worlds had about 15mins of interesting story the rest is unnecessary. Granted that’s in hindsight. The Riker will he won’t he leave and the annoying possible replacement commander … throw all that out as it is mostly irrelevant to this story.

Picard is capture, assimilated, Riker orders fire, Picard is rescued and unassimilated. That’s the episode in 4 scenes. The rest can go in the bin.

God I miss episodic sci-fi. 45 minutes, get in, set it all up, drive the story along, wrap it all up, you’re done, lovely.

I know what you mean though. But its something we’re unlike to see again. Most TV is, for better or worse, driven by season long story arcs now. And I think part of Stewart agreeing to return was that is was an epic story, and not just him being a great captain for 10 episodes.

It’s been a long start, but I’m hopefully the rest of the series settles in and gets better now he is off into space.

[Dave]

I thought the Riker subplot in Best Of Both Worlds was some of the best stuff in the story. Plus I think you need it to set him up as replacement captain (with a new Number One) and create a genuine sense of jeopardy that Picard might not come back.

[Pete Part Three]

What Dave said.

That Riker subplot is character stuff, which is what always elevated TNG.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I guess it works on first viewing, but in hindsight, when you know the outcome, it all feels rather unnecessary

[Ben Saunders]

That applies to literally all of fiction, though. Once you know what happens, you know what happens. That’s why spoilers are so annoying. I watched Best of Both Worlds last year though, fully aware that everything would be fine again by the end of the story, and still found it to be an amazingly gripping, tense piece of storytelling. Part one, at least. Part two is… perfunctory. It does its job, narratively, but it really feels like they’re just going through the motions of getting Picard back and getting rid of the Borg, etc.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Yeah I know, I am being a little facetious. The stuff with the commander woman is interesting, and I like how it affects Riker, with her getting right on his tits.

It is the second ep thats a bit of a bore, for a first episode of a series too, not a lot happens. As you say, it just functions to get Picard back. Then you get the next episode which is just him swanning around his vineyard. Its a slow start to the series which, at that point in the shows run, had just started to find its feet.

[Offline]

Ironically it’s the second episode I enjoyed the most as there was a natural unfolding of the expositional elements as the scenes progressed but new Trek can’t seem to get the blend quite right. Episodes either stutter to a deathly stillness, or there’s a horrendous amount of exposition in amongst the action scenes which are far more prevalent now as compared to the ’87 to ’00 era. There’s no simmering of the pot, no unfolding, more here it is, have at it, this is what you wanted right? Discovery S2 is a war criminal when it comes to padding up action scenes with exposition to make them not look like brainless distractions. God I fucking hate Discovery. Love Pike and Saru, everyone else can fuck off.

Anyway, it’s ok, I mean, I like it, it’s clearly got a story to tell, anyway, we always have about 6433 episodes of Trek on Netflix to watch.

Although saying that, I’m only watching Discovery S3 to see what the bloody hell the ships and aliens look like in the 32nd century. I mean, if the Enterprise-J is from the 25th century, what the hell will they have by the 4th millenium?

[Ben Saunders]

>Then you get the next episode which is just him swanning around his vineyard
I hope you’re being facetious here too

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I mean, if the Enterprise-J is from the 25th century, what the hell will they have by the 4th millenium

They’ll have started to use emojis. Enterprise – Monkey See No Evil Emjoi. Enterprise – Girl Dancing in Red Frock Emoji.

[Offline]

I bet ten dollarpounds that there will be a clunky bit of hand-waving about how some great temporal or dimensional war in the 26th century brought on by too much fannying about with forces that cannot be comprehended effectively took the galaxy back to the dark ages in terms of technological advancement because by the 32nd century, even the most basic of shuttlecraft should be able to take apart a starship from the 24th century with comparitive ease. Starships shouldn’t exist apart then from the extra-galactic expeditions that the 1701-J was enjoying. Time travel is heavily sanctioned and used only in official capacities by the Federation and restricted by the temporal prime directive. Dimensional travel is easy enough but doesn’t seem to affect dimensions on a macro level. The galaxy is able to be traversed in mere moments as seen by Braxton in his shuttle of all things.

It’s like Batman v. Superman, when it first announced, my first question was how do you stunt Superman enough to be manhandled by ol’ Bruce Wayne? You can put the Batman in a mech-suit as he was but it only brings his overall strength up by 10x or so whereas if Superman was inclined, he could turn Batman into atoms in an instant. The correct route was to have Bruce bring Superman down to human level with a good whiff of kryptonite. So what will be the kryptonite of the 32nd century?

Something has to give, a 23rd century starship in the 32nd century, knowing that the 1701-J is travelling to other galaxies in the 26th century, and timeships are able to go anywhere and anywhen by the 31st century. Either Discovery is quickly scrapped or for whatever reason it is on par with an extremely stunted galaxy.

Or as with Discovery in terms of writing, they’ll ignore all that and Michael Burnham will give another horribly vacuous speech about emotion and pride and love and how our ability to bring the ideals of the Federation into the future will ensure their survival.

God, I need a drink.

[Dave]

Or episode one of the new season will start with them returning to their own time and saying “wow, the 32nd century was CRAZY wasn’t it?!” without giving further details.

[Dax101]

Discovery wasn’t very good. Series 1 and 2 are abit of a mess really.

I am enjoying Picard though. its slower pace and sense of groundedness is a breath of fresh air in some ways.

The only things that stand out as a negative is the swearing and maybe some modern lingo thats very of the time. other than that. i seen worse Star Trek in the original 1960s to 2004 run.

[Offline]

Yes compared to the campness of TOS, a few swears and contemporary references isn’t so bad but they feel much more for us the audience than natural elements of late 24th century Earth. Star Trek revolved around a naval ship and staff in the midst of their mission but not even Riker took the odd puff of a vape? Geordi never cursed the engineering deck blind when the core wasn’t doing what he wanted it to do? I suppose when you have a holodeck and near a limitless ability to be wherever you want and whatever you want to be, our vices look utterly tame by comparison.

I like Picard, I do, and I do hope now that we’re off on the main mission it’ll start to feel more comfortable with itself but I’m poisoned by Discovery. Discovery is the utter nadir of Star Trek, a testement to modern TV writing that when it even begins to take its eye off strong story, strong characterisations and strong motive, it crumbles into itself and shows how lazy the writers can be. Emotion, action and mysterious, vague nothings is not story. Story is story, everything else is decoration.

Give us a Picard Marooned, go on, strong writing, character moments and plot driven by the surroundings, oh it’d be a real corker. All shows could do with a Marooned.

We are spoilt, perhaps I shouldn’t complain, but Star Trek and Red Dwarf gave us such wonderful insights into the human condition through the use of setting and ensemble characters. I don’t like to see it all go to waste.

And don’t get fucking started about Doctor Who.

[tombow]

there’s a reviewer on youtube who hates First Contact because of the way it messes with the Borg mythos and makes them less faceless, giving them a queen etc. I can see his point, but it’s still 100X more entertaining than the other TNG films IMO. I love First Contact and I’ve never managed to even remember what happens in Insurrection despite seeing it 2 or 3 times over the years. I remember something about a baddie with peeling skin and the characters having to do some long walk over hills with a group of people. But thats it.

[Dax101]

First Contact is seen as one of the better Star Trek movies, and rightly so really. but If First Contact was released today, it would be seen as the creative team ruining Star Trek. alot of the decisions would stir the fanbase crazy. fans would hate that there was a Borg Queen and see it as bad writing. fans would hate Picards desire for revenge seeing it as out of character.

But since it was released in 1996 among what was a fairly Star Trek busy era with Voyager and DS9. it was just seen as expanding. while today, after the long hiatus, it would be seen as replacing.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

A lot of fans do point to First Contact as the start of ruining the Borg, and really hate the idea of Borg Queen’s and such.

Picard wanting revenge gets a pass because it’s addressed quite well. It shows he still haven’t fully processed what happened to him and he has some bloody big and well warranted to issues to work through. Which is part of what the film, for him, is about.

It’s telling that no-one had posted about this week’s Picard yet … myself included.

It was pretty shit wasn’t it?

Yet another episode devoted to setting things up and putting a team together. Picard starts a bar crawl and a sword happy Romulan refugee saves him. Picard, the great diplomat specifically went looking for someone capable of slicing the head clean off a Romulan.

And then finish on a space battle so that you can dangle Seven of Nine in front of us to tempt us back next week because you know the show hasn’t moved anywhere since it started.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Bar brawl not bar crawl, ffs!!

If he has started a bar crawl that might have been more interesting

[Dax101]

>A lot of fans do point to First Contact as the start of ruining the Borg, and really hate the idea of Borg Queen’s and such.

It did not stop them continuing the idea in Voyager. except with First contact the Borg were sorta treated like zombies, once they are beaten they are better off dead. at least according to Picard… while Voyager showed that Borg could be recovered… oopsy Picard.

[Author]

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