Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum The official The End of Time thread (will contain pre-broadcast spoilers/speculation and post-broadcast spoilers)

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  • #6082
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Here you go then, folks. Get your Who fix here for now, and we’ll do a new thread for Moffat-era spoilers when appropriate. But the old thread is still unlocked in case anyone finds some nice new pictures of Karen Gillan, and it’s here: http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2009/10/doctor-who-in-an-exciting-adventure-with-the-spoilers

    Remember, if you want to talk spoiler-free, or simply discuss anything that’s already been shown (whether Old Who or Old New Who), you can go here : http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2009/10/doctor-who-and-the-lack-of-fatal-spoilers

    #106762
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Apart from the first filming pictures we saw, has anyone seen a picture with Karen NOT in a short skirt? You horny old toad, Moff…

    #106766

    Between you and me I hear Tennant is leaving.

    #106767
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Pfft, I think he’ll stay for the Moffat era.

    #106770

    My pizza just arrived and the delivery boy knocked four times. That is not good.

    #106773
    Michael Warren
    Participant

    Date and time confirmed – http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/2009/wk51/bbc_one.shtml#bbc_one_doctorwho

    Doctor Who ? The End Of Time, Part One
    Friday 25 December
    6.00-7.00pm BBC ONE

    Doctor Who ? The End Of Time, Part Two
    Friday 1 January
    6.40-7.55pm BBC ONE

    #106774

    Bah! Christmas presents from family and friends?? You can’t top this one from the BBC and I’m going to tell everyone who gets me one.

    #106775
    JamesTC
    Participant

    The cast list has been revealed, notable mentions –
    Roger Bailey (Time Lord)
    Penelope Wilton (Harriet Jones)

    Well not that much notable actually, those are for part 2. Matt Smith is also in the cast list but we all knew he was in part 2.
    Sourse -http://www.denofgeek.com/television/373632/doctor_who_the_end_of_time_cast_list_confirmed_with_surprises_in_store.html

    Though really it is from IMDB which hardly is the most reliable of sources.

    #106776

    >Roger Bailey (Time Lord)

    Ooooooh!

    >Penelope Wilton (Harriet Jones)

    Who, no doubt, turns out to be the Rani.

    Ha! Seriously though, that would be shit :-)

    #106778
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Hadn’t realised Part 2 was 75 minutes long.

    Parts 1 and 2 together then are 135 mins. Which is (when you take into account the lack of duplicate opening titles and recaps, and the fact that old Who was a shade under 25 minutes anyway) the equivalent of a full old-style six-parter!

    #106780
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Penelope Wilton (Harriet Jones)

    Off-screen deaths. They never take.

    #106782
    JamesTC
    Participant

    It is Doctor Who, on-screen deaths never take.

    #106784

    Between-screen deaths. They’re the only ones you can trust.

    #106786
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Off-screen deaths. They never take.

    IMDB also used to say something interesting about Norman Lovett.

    #106788
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    There better be a bloody good reason for Russell Tovey being in this aside from RTD clearly fancying the arse of him. I’d say the same about Jessica Hynes but, no matter how shoe-horned her presence seems as well, a) she at least had a memorable, important, character and, um, b) she’s a lady.

    #106789
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >There better be a bloody good reason for Russell Tovey being in this aside from RTD clearly fancying the arse of him.

    A bad pun to do with his characters name.

    #106792
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant
    #106793
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Hmm.

    #106794
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Beats ‘Time and the Rani’.

    #106796
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Good idea.

    *beats ‘Time and the Rani’*

    #106797
    Somebody
    Participant

    > http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2009/12/bbc-chrsitmas-ident.html

    Ah, this would be the thing that RTD apparently demanded on the 2nd of January this year after seeing Wallace & Gromit get last year’s Xmas idents, followed by 16m viewers + a 7m+ viewer repeat…

    #106798
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    To be fair, Who does need a bit of a help with ratings.

    Anyone care to hazard a guess by exactly how much TEoT is going to smash previous ratings records?

    #106799
    Andrew
    Participant

    I’d just like to say: I like that ident.

    #106800
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Hmm.

    What does “Hmm” mean? It’s awesome.

    #106801
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > What does ?Hmm? mean? It?s awesome.

    It means I’m not convinced.

    #106802
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It’s cheesey, it’s overblown,

    It’s Christmas.

    #106803
    Andrew
    Participant

    I have a slight issue with the way the shot of the Doc sat on the TARDIS crosses the line when cut with the rest of the footage. Other than that, it’s lovely. Cartoony, but as Pete says: Christmas.

    #106810
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Can we just stop for a moment to consider how fucking INCREDIBLE the notion that BBC ONE’S CHRISTMAS IDENTS are themed around DOCTOR FUCKING WHO is?

    I was flicking through the issue of DWM from the 35th anniversary recently (the one with that bloody brilliant Roger Langridge-drawn story in it), and aside from being amused by merchandise adverts, the main feeling was one of wanting to shout at all the people writing for it “YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT’S COMING IN LESS THAN A DECADE, HANG IN THERE FOLKS!”

    #106811
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Also, I think the ident’s brilliant, so there.

    #106812
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Also, speaking of anniversaries… there’s a pretty decent likelihood that Moffat’s still going to be in charge at the time of the 50th, isn’t there? At least, if he does the job for as long as Russell. Just think on THAT one for a moment.

    #106813
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Somebody get me a towel.

    #106817
    steven87gill
    Participant

    >Off-screen deaths. They never take.

    True. I have an odd image (probably miles off) of the Doctor turning up in harriet jones’ flat and saving her after the screen goes fuzzy.

    I’m sure CE’s Doctor made a comment about HJ leading britain into a golden age, that implied that he’d seen it and was .possibly. a fixed point in time that Doc 10 altered.

    #106818
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2009/12/end-of-time-bbc-preview.html

    looks interesting. at 1st look the questions i ask are what will this gate be and why is the master wearing a collar. i hope this all lives up to expectations.

    #106819
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Can’t say I’m particularly enamoured with The Master shooting laser bolts from his hand.

    #106820
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >Can?t say I?m particularly enamoured with The Master shooting laser bolts from his hand.

    He’s a robot/cyborg.

    I don’t understand why he is wearing a dog leash near the end of the clip.

    #106821
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >He?s a robot/cyborg.

    Can?t say I?m particularly enamoured with The Master being a robot/cyborg.

    He’s a Time Lord, why do they need to resort to this to explain his return?

    #106822
    Alex
    Participant

    We don’t know that they’ve resorted to anything. Let’s be honest, we haven’t got a clue whats going on really.

    #106823
    Andrew
    Participant

    > He?s a robot/cyborg.

    This is an assumption not a fact, though, surely? Based on a misinterpretation of the skeletal effect in the teaser clips?

    The Master gaining Emperor-type powers makes sense to me. If I was gleefully evil, I’d want ’em.

    #106824
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Assumptions make the world go round. Plus it isn’t a misinterpretation, it looks like a metal endoskelaton type structure, it is repeated in the latest clips, he is clearly not normal inside.
    That is unless it is just really shit CGI, if that is true though they wouldn’t repeat it so much in clips.

    Also note the a Gallifrey type logo thing behind the Master when he is at the computer, similar to the one Dalton was wearing in that picture from a while back.

    #106825
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant
    #106826
    ChrisM
    Participant
    #106827
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Part of me will really miss RTD Era Who. Another part of me see’s rubbish looking creations like

    > Achoo! Achoo!

    and is glad it’s ending soon.

    #106828
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Plus it isn?t a misinterpretation

    You don’t know that. Regardless, it’s certainly not a fact. There’s a world between “not normal” and “robot” – not the least of which is the bizarre conclusion-jump from a blue-hued human skeleton to definitive robot. I suggest the resurrection looks significantly more complex than you’ve decided, and stating ‘cyborg’ like it’s been definitvely established isn’t any way to convince otherwise.

    I mean, to me it looks like an attempt at resurrection that don’t wholly work and so was augmented, in the outer appearace, by a hologram. But I’m not stating that as a fact, despite it maybe gelling with the quotes in the Radio Times, since other theories could work equally well.

    #106829
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/09/49/550w_doctor_who_s5_filming_1.jpg

    Cappsy’s theory (theorem?) about Moffat being a randy old goat appears to be holding. Another outfit, another mini-skirt.

    Oh there’s a pic of 11 too.

    http://images.digitalspy.co.uk/09/49/550w_doctor_who_s5_filming_2.jpg

    #106830
    JamesTC
    Participant

    http://s368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/SoundableObject/?action=view&current=Master.jpg

    >There?s a world between ?not normal? and ?robot? – not the least of which is the bizarre conclusion-jump from a blue-hued human skeleton to definitive robot

    At which point did I say he was a definite robot, from the evidence I think he is a cyborg, I never said he was definatly one, it may have been better to say “he might be”, I have already elaborated that it is not a normal skeleton and we can both see that from the above picture, unless it is bad CGI work.

    #106831
    JamesTC
    Participant

    The Master is Kamelion.

    #106832
    Andrew
    Participant

    > At which point did I say he was a definite robot, from the evidence I think he is a cyborg, I never said he was definatly one

    “He?s a robot/cyborg.”

    In case you’re unaware, the apostrophe condenses the phrase “he is” – rather than, say, “I think he might be but it’s wholly conjecture based on a couple of CG shots which could end up being any number of things.”

    #106833
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >it may have been better to say ?he might be?

    #106837
    Andrew
    Participant

    So we agree – stated as fact, shouldn’t have done, that’s that.

    So, short skirts, eh?

    #106838
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    As long as he isn’t a “droid”. George Lucas owns the rights to the use of the word “droid”. Wouldn’t want to be unnecessarily lining his pockets any more than!!

    #106841
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >So, short skirts, eh?

    Something for the dads.

    #106843
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >George Lucas owns the rights to the use of the word ?droid?.

    Really?

    As for the Master, his head actually looks a bit crispy to me under that image, suggesting a hologram disguise.

    #106844
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    >Really?

    That is actually true…Lucas owns the rights to the word “droid”.
    http://www.geeksugar.com/6051336

    #106845
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    So whenevr it’s uttered in Dwarf, George Lucas is owed money?

    #106846
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    Not sure how it works. I know there was a game a few years back that had the word Droid in it’s title that had to change it or be sued…however, I believe they have been a bit more relaxed in recent years

    #106868
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2009/12/end-of-time-anthony-hopkins-involved.html

    there has also been some more pic updates including a new pic of the sneeze creatures … great

    #106870
    Alex
    Participant

    And on their homepage there’s a new clip wiith Wilf in the Tardis too. Loooks interesting.

    #106871

    There’s no way that guy is Anthony Hopkins. For a start I think he’s Asian, and, with him being outside there, it’s just an impossibility that no inkling of this would have gotten out before now, even if it was just a cameo.

    The only big name we didn’t know was Brian Cox and that’s because he only did ADR for the elder Ood. If he had been on set it would have at least appeared as a rumour. If a past Doctor DOES make an appearance it wouldn’t be a bolt out of the blue because past Doctors are constantly rumoured. They could have slipped in a past Doctor fairly easily without it getting out. Only McGann and/or Eccleston would have any relevance plot-wise so if there IS a past Doctor it better be either of those, otherwise it really will be 100% fanwankery and little else!

    They need to save the fanwankery for the 2013 anniversary. EVERY Doctor should be involved then, even the incarnations no longer with us. An animated episode featuring all 11 (perhaps 12 by then!) Doctors! That would be fantastic. With voice actors doing Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee. You know it makes sense. The Twelve Doctors!!!

    #106872
    Somebody
    Participant

    There’s some rumour we might see a child-Doctor scene (in the way we had the child-Master scene in Sound of Drums), but I don’t know whether to grant it any credence…

    #106873

    I don’t want to see a child-Doctor. I know it doesn’t really affect anything at all, but I like as much mystery to be kept about the Doctor as possible. I didn’t even like the revealing of the staring into the vortex as children in the third series. I thought the Master was insane because he found himself at the back of two lines for Starbucks at once, but no, they had to go and ruin that theory for me.

    My brother told me that its “obviously” Matt Smith’s Doctor who will knock four times. Anyone with him on that?

    #106874

    Oh yes and my thoughts on previous Doctors reappearing… it’s not going to happen. I just don’t believe it and if DOES happen I’ll willingly drink cranberry juice. THAT’S how certain I am that it’s not happening, and Moffat won’t do it either, which is a bit obvious so I probably don’t need to say it. I think it’s just a bit TOO fanwankish.

    #106881
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >and Moffat won?t do it either, which is a bit obvious so I probably don?t need to say it.

    Why is it obvious, he is the guy bringing back the Daleks and the Silurians and possibly the Cybermen in his first year and he has written a multi-Doctor story in the past.

    #106883
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I think calling time Crash a story might be overstating it a little bit. It was, primarily, for fun.

    #106884

    I’ve just eaten ALOT of food, so much that I’m unable to think at present. So I’m just going to retract my previous statement and agree with whoever is expressing an opinion at this time.

    #106888
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >I think calling time Crash a story might be overstating it a little bit. It was, primarily, for fun.

    I guess scene or mini-episode would be a better epithet though you are being pedantic, arn’t all Doctor Who stories for fun, by which which I mean to entertain.

    #106889
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > I guess scene or mini-episode would be a better epithet though you are being pedantic, arn?t all Doctor Who stories for fun, by which which I mean to entertain.

    DOCTOR WHO IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

    I know we’re getting dangerously close to discussing ‘canon’ here, and while Time Crash is considered to be part of it, it’s something that was created without anywhere near the normal consideration that would go into a main episode. It was free reign for Moffat to write some fanwank without consequence, and the main series isn’t.

    #106890
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >and the main series isn?t.

    ‘The Five Doctors’.

    #106891

    Moffat wrote The Five Doctors??? WOAH!

    #106892
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I said he written it? I was giving an example of a piece of fanwank in the main series.

    Another couple of fanwanks –
    ‘Attack of the Cybermen’
    ‘Journeys End’

    #106894
    Andrew
    Participant

    > it?s something that was created without anywhere near the normal consideration that would go into a main episode. It was free reign for Moffat to write some fanwank without consequence, and the main series isn?t.

    I disagree slightly, in as much as there’s no debate that the previous specially-made mini-ep – Tennant’s introduction – was done to be absolutely part of the main, ‘real’ story. To ‘count’. And I think Time Crash is afforded the same consideration.

    Blink, arguably, is more or less without consequence to the main series arc; Fireplace, too. And Silence in the Library doesn’t affect RTD’s run, since River’s being saved for later. All three, essentially, put the toys back where they found them. Moffat gets to write drafts that go un-re-written by the showrunner, and with that partly in mind, he plays in a slight bubble. So Time Crash isn’t that far from the regular working method.

    Since the debate was originally ‘can you call it a story’ as opposed to ‘a bit of fun’ – I don’t think one precludes the other. It’s very, very hard to tell a story in that time, yet Moffat IS careful to include a full narrative along with the gags. Arguably, indeed, it has a more conventional Doctor Who start-to-finish story than the previous CiN special.

    It’s story enough to be a story, canon enough to be canon, indulgent enough to be fanwank, fun as all hell, and written with clear series consideration.

    Using Time Crash as evidence that Moffat may do full, in-series multi-Doctor story again is nonsense. But so’s dismissing Time Crash as irrelevant non-story fanwank.

    #106896
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Right enough of this Who-vavu. Two things:

    Ahead of the specials I’m introducing my flatmate to new Who. Well all Who infact, but we’re starting with the modern series.

    He actually watched and enjoyed Waters of Mars with me when it aired and so I figured I’d try and get him a bit more into Who ahead of Tennant’s final eps.

    Rose has been watched, but I’m now a bit stuck. We don’t have time to watch all four series between now and Xmas so which ones would people pick out as the essential shows. Toss like ‘Fear Her’ and the one with Maureen Lipman in can easily be jettisoned, but what else? I guess as Andrew says above the Moffat eps don’t really have much consequence to the overall series, although I’m tempted to show him all of those simply as examples of how utterly Doctor Who can and will be.

    Okay second thing. Behind Dwarf, It’s probably safe to assume Who is the second most popular show amongst us here. Which has given me a bit of an idea. How about a G&T RTD-era Who survey just between us? I’ll be happy to tot up all the votes, and then I was thinking the results could be announced on New Year’s Day ahead of the last RTD ep.

    Off the top of my head I’m thinking for catergories things like; Favourite Companion, Favourite Returning Villain, Fav. New Monster, Best Opening Ep, Best Finale, Best Epic Two-Parter, Best Bottle Ep etc.

    Thoughts?

    #106897
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >Off the top of my head I?m thinking for catergories things like; Favourite >Companion, Favourite Returning Villain, Fav. New Monster, Best Opening Ep, Best >Finale, Best Epic Two-Parter, Best Bottle Ep etc.
    >Thoughts?

    I think it is a nice idea, though has there really been more than one bottle episode of the new series? Apart from the CIN specials all I can think of is the wonderful ‘Midnight’.

    FYI, Donna/Wilf, Davros, Ood, Parters in Crime, Journeys End, The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, Midnight.

    #106898
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Wilf (probably), Daleks (despite the overkill), Weeping Angels, Smith and Jones, Journey’s End, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink

    #106900
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Well if we’re going to do it, don’t give away your votes now. I’ll do a proper ballot thing in secret. For now if people would like to say ‘Yes do it’ and perhaps provide some suggestions.

    Also any ideas for the Speedy New Who Catch-Up would be appreciated too.

    #106901
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >Also any ideas for the Speedy New Who Catch-Up would be appreciated too.

    Go for the big episodes first, the popular ones, the ones which a neccesary to tell the story.
    I suggest atleast regardless of what I think of them –
    ‘Dalek’
    ‘The Empty Child’/’The Doctor Dances’
    ‘Bad Wolf’/’Parting of the Ways’
    ‘The Christmas Invasion’ (New Doctor)
    ‘School Reunion’ (As an introduction to SJS)
    ‘The Girl in the Fireplace’ (Because it is a classic)
    ‘Rise of the Cybermen’/’The Age of Steel’ (For the Big Bad of the year)
    ‘The Impossible Planet’/’The Satan Pit’ (For the Ood)
    ‘Army of Ghosts’/’Doomsday’ (As an explanation for Rose going and her return and all that)
    ‘The Runaway Bride’ (As an introduction to Donna)
    ‘Smith and Jones’ (For Martha)
    ‘Daleks in Manhattan’/’Evolution of the Daleks’ (For the Caan! storyline)
    ‘Human Nature’/’The Family of Blood’ (Because it is a classic)
    ‘Blink’ (Second place in poll and all)
    ‘Utopia’/’The Sound of Drums’/’Last of the Time Lords’ (for the Master who is back, and ‘Utopia’ which is great)
    ‘Partners in Crime’ (An reintroduction to Donna)
    ‘Turn Left’/’The Stolen Earth’/’Journey’s End’ (To explain crazy Donna)
    That is two episodes a night.

    Those I think are the necessary ones, maybe ‘The Fires of Pompeii’/’Planet of the Ood’ too for all the DoctorDonna stuff.

    I missed off ‘Silence in The Library’/’Rivers Run’ because those can be watched at a later time after the christmas specials I’d say, they are needed for the Moffat era though.

    #106902
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’d agree with that except for Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks. Spending 5 minutes explaining who Caan is has got to be preferable to spending 90 minutes watching this shit.

    #106903
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Toss like… the one with Maureen Lipman

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    #106904
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    >the one with Maureen Lipman

    worst new who ep there has been.

    #106905
    John Hoare
    Participant

    It bloody, bloody isn’t. It was great. If only for the evocation of 50s Britain, and the sheer cheek of the climax with the Betamax casssette.

    #106906
    Andrew
    Participant

    Sod ?The Christmas Invasion? – do the CiN special and movie on. ?The Runaway Bride?, ?Smith and Jones?, ?School Reunion? don’t especially matter, either. Go for good stories, not continuity stories: who the hell cares who Martha is?

    ?Rise of the Cybermen?/?The Age of Steel? is wank. ?Daleks in Manhattan?/?Evolution of the Daleks? is a bucket of wank in a big wank tank. And seriously, fuck ?Partners in Crime? until it dies.

    Chuck in ‘Midnight’, ‘Pompeii’, ‘Library/Forest’.

    #106907
    John Hoare
    Participant

    And seriously, fuck ?Partners in Crime? until it dies.

    THAT’S the worst ep of New Who there’s been!

    I’d still stick up for the Dalek two-parter, but nowhere near enough to put it on a introduction-to-Who list, obviously.

    I have an extremely large soft spot for Father’s Day. That’s a great standalone episode to show someone.

    #106908
    JamesTC
    Participant

    If you are chucking episodes because they are shit I wouldn’t include alot of them. ‘Gollum goes the Curcus’ and ‘Hoover of the Daleks’ would be the first to go for me. I included stories to make the viewer understand the later stories better and in the end ‘The End of Time’, remember they have all of time to watch every story but if they’d rather watch ‘The End of Time’ when it airs with a better understanding then it is best to watch continuity heavy stories (not in an ‘Attack of the Cybermen’ way).
    Dropping ‘The Runaway Bride’ and ‘Partners in Crime’ would be just stupid, drop one but not both, missing out such an important companions opening story as well as the Wilf stuff in ‘Partners in Crime’ would make it a little harder to understand when just explained. As an aside I liked both of those stories, crap villain both stories but Tate more than made up for it.
    I do think all the Cybusmen stories are utter rubbish (‘The Next Doctor’ was great but the Cybusmen were the low point, the Lake stuff was one of the best new series tales) and I would drop ’em if it were a measure of quality but it isn’t, regardless of quality they have a big part in Series 2 and directly link to Series 4.

    #106909
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >>And seriously, fuck ?Partners in Crime? until it dies.

    >THAT?S the worst ep of New Who there?s been!

    It is cute, funny and has a crap main villain but some cute ickle aliens (who are unintentionally the bad guy). It is by no means a classic but it was entertaining tele. RTD knows how to write the opener, atleast how I think they should be, just light hearted romps, ‘Smith and Jones’ is in the same style. One cringe worthy scene (which is down to effects) is the bit with Donna and the Doctor waving to Wilf from the TARDIS, I never knew the TARDIS had the power to turn 2D.

    #106910
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I think, though, that if you’re introducing someone to Who, you need to go for the *best* stories – not the ones “needed” for continuity. Anything else would be a disservice to the show. The heart of Who isn’t really in the arc, I’d argue.

    If that means they won’t get some elements of The End of Time… then fine. (But I reckon that they’ll be able to fill in the gaps – as long as it doesn’t reach Journey’s End levels. And I REALLY hope it doesn’t.)

    #106911
    JamesTC
    Participant

    > as long as it doesn?t reach Journey?s End levels. And I REALLY hope it doesn?t.

    Russel Tovay, Billie Piper, John Barrowman, Judoon, Ood, Time Lords, Camille Coduri, Jessica Hynes, Tommy Knight, Elisabeth Sladen and of course John Simm.

    Harriet Jones was rumoured but who knows, she isn’t on any official cast lists so I guess she is dead.

    #106912
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Oh, did anyone watch ‘Dreamland’, the first clips didn’t look to good, the animation seemed to be trying something that it couldn’t reach but once you get a couple of minutes in you just don’t think about it, it was actually really very good, certainly better than ‘The Infinite Quest’, I will be picking up the DVD in February.

    #106913
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Dropping ?The Runaway Bride? and ?Partners in Crime? would be just stupid,

    No. It would be a judgment call. What does it matter HOW the Doctor picked a companion up? Donna’s a rounded character, she comes across clearly in every episode she’s in. How she ended up on the TARDIS – twice – is wholly secondary to what she does when she’s there. Silence/Forest does Donna justice without fussing over the mechanics of arrival.

    #106914
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    >Russel Tovay, Billie Piper, John Barrowman, Judoon, Ood, Time Lords, Camille Coduri, Jessica Hynes, Tommy Knight, Elisabeth Sladen and of course John Simm.

    >Harriet Jones was rumoured but who knows, she isn?t on any official cast lists so I guess she is dead.

    A list of guest stars is not a plot summary.

    #106915
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >A list of guest stars is not a plot summary.

    It was for alot of ‘Journeys End’. Plus the cast list with so many past names means it will be continuity heavy.

    #106916

    Rose
    Dalek
    Father’s Day
    TEC/TDD
    BW/TPOTW
    Fireplace
    TIP/TSP
    Runaway Bride
    Smith & Jones
    Human Nature/FoB
    Blink
    Utopia/Sound of Drums (not TLOTTL)
    Pompeii
    Library 2-parter
    Midnight
    Turn Left
    Waters of Mars

    EVERY SINGLE OTHER EPISODE CAN SMASH INTO THE SEA IN A BIG BALL OF FLAMES FOR ALL I CARE. Apart from The End of the World and The Unquiet Dead and a couple of others…Tooth & Claw, Gridlock, Shakespeare…but that’s besides the blummin point. That point being that –

    NEW WHO IS CRAP APART FROM THE ABOVE.

    #106917
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I don’t have time to provide a full list as I’m on my phone, but to respond to a few opinions above, since I’ve been watching everything through from the start and have just finished series 2:

    Christmas Invasion is fucking brilliant
    The Idiot’s Lantern is not the worst but it’s a massive letdown
    Fear Her is the worst episode of New Who. It’s not just for the Olympics bit, either – the whole thing is almost entirely unwatchable.

    #106919
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Thanks guys. I was in two minds about a lot of Series One, I was thinking End of the World because it’s the first time we/Rose go(es) off to the future, but then Unquiet Dead is our first dose of history and I decided that TEC/DD could cover that. I think we’ll go for Dalek next as that’s another re-introduction story.

    #106923
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    > Fear Her is the worst episode of New Who. It?s not just for the Olympics bit, either – the whole thing is almost entirely unwatchable.

    oh yeah i had forgotten that one.with good reason

    #106924
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I enjoyed Fear Her when it was on. Not seen it since, but I certainly didn’t feel the same sinking feeling as I did during Partners In Crime. (Or Voyage of the Damned.) I remember really loving the drawings coming to life… and the opening TARDIS gag. And I found the abusive father stuff interesting.

    I really need to buy Series 2, 3 and 4 on DVD. Can’t believe I’ve not got them yet.

    #106925

    I liked Partners in Crime, that’s all there is to be said on the matter.

    NO TAG BACKS!

    #106926
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I remember really loving the drawings coming to life?

    #106931
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Okay for arguements sake, should we go for best Doctor-Lite ep or best Bottle episode? Where’s the divide?

    Also I’m sure we used to talk about each series subscribing to a bit of a pattern. Something like Opener, Fun Two-Parter, Bottle Ep, Epic Two-Parter, Finale. Not quite those descriptions, but something similar. Would anyone like to neaten that up a bit and I’ll use those as catergories. Then throw in a more for good measure.

    #106946
    JamesTC
    Participant
    #106949
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzEeRLbdnHc

    >Oh.

    “oh” sums it up pretty much spot on to be honest.

    #106950
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    You miserable fuckers have no heart.

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