Thoughts on the Series XII Flipside Cover?

[Renegade Rob]

Over this past weekend, I’ve been processing the reveal of the Series XII flipside cover. As someone who likes consistency but also wants each series to have their own identity, I’ve been trying to figure out how I feel about the color. The pale red bunkroom and pale blue Starbug cockpit made perfect sense for X and XI, but the fact that the Science Room for XII, despite being an obvious choice, still nags at me a bit, so I’ve created this post more as a sounding board to help me work out how I come down on this very important issue.

I really want each series to feel like it’s own distinct entity with its own identity, and up until now, they have. But let’s face it: the military blue Science Room XII cover is a little close to the ocean blue of the Starbug cockpit XI cover, so that’s 2 pale-blues in a row. Granted, they’re slightly different shades, with XII having more than a dash of light purple. But it’s the equivalent of making Series IV the officers Bunkroom and Series V the old III-V Science Room: same color scheme because of similar production design. If they had made XII yellow with the new Science Room at Yellow Alert, that would’ve been great. Or they could have, as I thought they might do, made XII pale-green with the Starbug 19 interior and echo the pattern of the original 6, so that a Series XIII cover would be even paler beige and so on.
As it is, two light blues in a row, leaves me a little cold.

But then I did some more thinking about the cover (What better way is there to spend a Sarurday night?), and the thought occurred that part of XII’s identity is the fact that it’s of a pair with XI. Thet were commissioned together, written together, share sets and even moved scenes, and were basically filmed together. This sort of was one long series split over two, more than possible any pair of series before. Now true, XII is, give or take a Timewave, way better than XI overall, as almost certainly it built off the momentum established by XI to be more bold and confident.

In that light, it makes some deal of sense to have XI and XII be similar colors, because much of their identity is the fact that they’re intrinsically linked. Like those weird quasi-two-parters from Series 9 of Doctor Who. So I think I’m coming down on the side of “I get it and can live with it” but would have preferred something a little more distinct.

Thoughts?

Topic

[flanl3]

In the US, we never got reversible covers on the new ones, but at least as consolation we don’t have to have that ugly straight-up-and-down massive season number on the side.

[flanl3]

Well, except for X.

[International Debris]

I seem to be the only one leaving X and XI with their original covers.

[International Debris]

Despite the odd issue with the reversible covers, I’m really glad they’re doing them though. They didn’t have to, but it’s a really nice thing to do for fans who’ll appreciate them.

The only one better is the Doctor Who team, who started doing reversible covers as soon as the BBC logo changed and their classic range spines looked ever so slightly different to the earlier ones. The difference wasn’t dramatic, but they did them anyway, knowing that the show has a fanbase that would appreciate the whole collection being correctly aligned.

Compare that with almost any other TV show, with which the DVD sleeve designs are all over the place.

[Lily]

Even on the original 8 it bugs me how they made 4 unique spines, then clearly went ‘fuck it’ and copy/pasted the spine in appropriate colours for the rest.

Shame the Dave ones can’t even line up the main logos though.

[International Debris]

Yeah, the shape of the paint markings on VII and VIII have always looked bloody awful.

[Lily]

It’s the same paint mark on 5 & 6, the edge is just hidden behind the logo.

[International Debris]

Yeah, I think that they’re hidden means I can look at them fine. But that repeating jagged shape is so glaringly obvious.

[si]

I seem to be the only one leaving X and XI with their original covers.

That’s why I both both the BluRay and the DVD. Original Bluray covers, reverse the DVD sleeves.
Also, I like to have things. Hence the two additional RDX Steelbooks.

[si]

Although I haven’t got the XI steelbook yet, have I? Or the BtE bluray. Tch.

[GlenTokyo]

BtE isn’t series IX in the same way that the Star Wars Holiday Special isn’t Star Wars Episode V.

A stand alone, basically a pilot for Dave that we also got to see, it served a purpose but it’s not IX, it’s not even a series really. It’s meant to be one episode. You could call it a mini series I suppose but anyway, being called Back To Earth shows you that it’s not IX, otherwise it’d be called IX wouldn’t it?

[Dave]

BtE isn’t series IX in the same way that the Star Wars Holiday Special isn’t Star Wars Episode V.

That analogy would make more sense if The Empire Strikes Back had been billed as Episode VI when it came out.

[GlenTokyo]

But Series IX is a thing in canon isn’t it? (as much as you can take Red Dwarf canon as reliable), it’s just we haven’t seen it, we know that it’s a transition series between VIII and the Dave era, maybe one day we’ll get a novel about it if not a series.

[bloodteller]

i’d rather not see anything connected to VIII ever again

[Ben Paddon]

Series IX and X are technically things “in canon”, but that has exactly zero bearing on the real world. You’ll note nobody has shot Cliff Richard as of yet.

BTE is the ninth-produced series of episodes of Red Dwarf. It is followed by a series referred to by Series X, and itself follows Series VIII. Though we may not call it IX, it is the ninth series, and we need to just let that ghost lie. We’ve long since moved past debating whether there are raisins or chocolate chips and are arguing over whether or not the thing is a fucking cookie or not.

[si]

You’ll note nobody has shot Cliff Richard as of yet.

My sister hasn’t got a gun.

[GlenTokyo]

Can 1 episode be a series? As written and as best presented it’s just the one, what would we do then? Advertising is the problem.

I don’t see why it needs to be referred to as anything but Back to Earth to be honest, it’s only 3 syllables.

[flanl3]

I don’t see why it needs to be referred to as anything but Back to Earth to be honest, it’s only 3 syllables.

Same as “Red Dwarf Ix,” and more verifiably accurate.

[bloodteller]

Back To Earth is Back To Earth though

[Ben Paddon]

I agree, Back to Earth is absolutely Back to Earth. It’s not Series IX. But it is the ninth series of Red Dwarf, in the same way that there isn’t technically a series I and II, but we do have a first and second series of the show.

[Dave]

Exactly.

[Seb Patrick]

Why isn’t there technically a Series I and II?

[bloodteller]

i think there is a Series I and II, isn’t there? it’s on my shelf, im sure of it

[Dave]

That technically isn’t your shelf.

[Richietee]

I love seeing how everyone displays thier DVD collection in an odd way!
Here’s a pre-XI/XII photo of my Red Dwarf shelf

I used the custom “Series IX” cover just for uniformity and the rest are customs

[Richietee]

Also there is not a single bonus feature on the USA bootleg let alone 3 hours! I just wanted to put some “Bonus Material” text on the cover

[Seb Patrick]

I’d have called the main pilot the feature and the promo the Bonus Feature, to get around that.

[Seb Patrick]

>i think there is a Series I and II, isn’t there? it’s on my shelf, im sure of it

Basically, there’s a long-running G&T argument that the first two series aren’t referred to by Roman numerals, because that way of naming the show only came in with Series III. As such, they’ve always been pedantically referred to around here as “Series 1” and “Series 2”.

I have never agreed with this, because Roman numerals have been used for the first two series ever since the VHS releases. And the DVD spines refer to them as “Series I” and “Series II”. Whereas I’ve never seen “Series 1” and “Series 2” used in any official context, anywhere.

[Ben Saunders]

Fucking hell, that’s right up there with the pillocks who refuse to refer to the original Star Wars as “a new hope” or “episode IV” despite not even being born before Return of the Jedi.

Like people will rank them “Empire > Star Wars > Jedi”

[Ben Saunders]

The tone of that post makes it seem like every time I see someone refer to Episode IV as Star Wars I break out in a cold sweat and grind my teeth but it’s not that extreme

[Dave]

Also, John Hurt’s War Doctor means that all subsequent Doctors must now be referred to by different numbers than they were previously known as.

[Dave]

Anyway, I think the easiest way to solve the Back To Earth dilemma is to acknowledge that there are some undisputed facts about the name of the series, but that what you call it really comes down to personal choice.

So:

– It is the ninth series of episodes of Red Dwarf.
– It has never been referred to officially as Series IX or Series 9.
– The two series either side of it are series VIII and series X.
– The official name of the series is Back To Earth.

Given that we should all be able to agree on those things, who really cares whether we refer to it as Series IX or BTE or whatever in casual conversation or on homemade DVD labels. We all know what we’re talking about.

Like the numbering of the Doctors, it only becomes an issue if overly-pedantic fans decide to make it one.

[Richietee]

>I’d have called the main pilot the feature and the promo the Bonus Feature, to get around that.

Bah! that’s a great idea really wish I’d done that now! :)

[bloodteller]

>Fucking hell, that’s right up there with the pillocks who refuse to refer to the original Star Wars as “a new hope” or “episode IV” despite not even being born before Return of the Jedi.
Like people will rank them “Empire > Star Wars > Jedi”

this just makes me think of that old joke from back when the Phantom Menace came out about how the Empire Strikes Back was now the fifth of the four Star Wars films

[International Debris]

– It has never been referred to officially as Series IX or Series 9.

Shall I bring up the French DVD again?

[Dave]

By all means. I think you’ll find that refers to it as ‘Saison IX’, so the statement is accurate.

[Ben Saunders]

>Also, John Hurt’s War Doctor means that all subsequent Doctors must now be referred to by different numbers than they were previously known as.

Nah because he wasn’t the Doctor, except he was, but no one called him that, except when they did, because he was a horrible person, except he wasn’t, who did terrible things, until he didn’t. Clear?

[flanl3]

– It is the ninth series of episodes of Red Dwarf.

No, it’s one episode that was split up into three parts for the broadcast, wasn’t it?

[Dave]

No, it’s one part that was split into three episodes.

[Ben Saunders]

Well, is Back in the Red one episode? Is Pete? Was BtE really just split into three episodes seemingly at random, or was consideration given to structure and breaks, etc? I think it was the latter, given the delete bunk scene originally intended for part three. Therefore, it was made into three episodes and broadcast as such, with the director’s cut coming later.

It is both one episode and three episodes.

[flanl3]

The idea with Back to Earth was that it was meant to be continuous with the director’s cut to be the definitive version, whereas with Back in the Red and Pete the plan with those, upon broadcast, was to leave those as the definitive versions, and they only combined three parts into the one for the DVD, if I’m not mistaken about all of this. Which I very well could be.

[International Debris]

Anyway, as per my Frost link above, some shows have ‘series’ that consist of one episode. Given that BtE was broadcast and released on DVD as three separate episodes, it’s a bloody series. Given that it came between VIII and X, and no other material has been called series IX, it’s the ninth series. Given that all the other series are generally referred to by Roman numerals, and some people like continuity in what they say and write, it’s not an absurd leap to call it series IX.

Anybody who genuinely thinks that is an issue needs a smack.

[pfm]

I remember Doug or one of the cast mentioning ‘series nine’ so that’s good enough for me. :p

Also it IS ‘1’ and ‘2’ because they never had an official title, as opposed to the proceeding series’ which were actually known as ‘Red Dwarf III’ etc. technically all of them are ‘3’ ‘4’ etc. but people use the numerals for III onwards cause it was the actual title. Video releases MAY retcon that but whatever it’s still….a bone of contention (i.e. WRONG :p).

New Doctor Who is officially classed as a different show to the classic series (granted, this is probably solely due to boring stuff like rights renegotiations etc.), so it is and always will be wrong to call it ‘season 27’ and on, despite the fact people continue to do so.

fuck anyone in the face three times who disagrees bellend pricks suck

[Dave]

Scoff all you want, but I’m greatly enjoying series 1,693 of Eastenders this week.

[Seb Patrick]

Also it IS ‘1’ and ‘2’ because they never had an official title, as opposed to the proceeding series’ which were actually known as ‘Red Dwarf III’ etc. technically all of them are ‘3’ ‘4’ etc. but people use the numerals for III onwards cause it was the actual title.

Wellllll only Series III uses “Red Dwarf III” onscreen – none of Series IV, V or VI do so. So is “Red Dwarf IV” any more correct than “Red Dwarf I”? Only if you give the Radio Times listing more authority than the onscreen title card.

And even if you are going by the Radio Times argument, the “Red Dwarf [Numeral]” discussion is entirely separate from the “Series [Numeral]” discussion. I can understand doing this:

Red Dwarf (series 1)
Red Dwarf (series 2)
Red Dwarf III
Red Dwarf IV
Red Dwarf V
… etc

… although I wouldn’t do it myself. But I can’t see any justifiable basis for this:

Red Dwarf Series 1
Red Dwarf Series 2
Red Dwarf Series III
Red Dwarf Series IV
Red Dwarf Series V
… etc

… since, unless anyone wants to correct me, the first time “Series [Numeral]” was officially used to designate the series was on the DVD releases. And in that instance, they all used numerals.

[Ben Saunders]

Now this is the kind of anality I signed up to this site for

[Dave]

since, unless anyone wants to correct me, the first time “Series [Numeral]” was officially used to designate the series was on the DVD releases.

Interestingly (no, really), the Red Dwarf Remastered VHS release of all three series refers to ‘Series I-III’, and predates the DVDs.

The individual Remastered VHS releases refer to ‘Series One’, ‘Series Two’ and ‘Series Three’ though, without numerals.

[Dave]

Oh, and the VHS releases of the original unremastered series are labelled ‘Red Dwarf I’ etc., although not ‘Red Dwarf Series I’.

[cwickham]

Apart from “Backwards” using “Series III” in the Star Wars crawl, the only other series to have the Roman numeral onscreen are the ones from after Rob left. I wonder if this was something Doug was particularly keen on? I wonder what the impetus for marketing the first series in over three years with a giant “VII” was?

[Ian Symes]

Why did Doug combine three episodes of Back To Earth into one Directors Cut, though?

[Author]

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