What do you prefer to Red Dwarf?

[Anonymous]

As heretic as it may be…we’re all Red Dwarf fans, but are there any comedies that you actually prefer?

I’ll start the ball rolling and say that I think Alan Partridge and the Office are better.

And Arrested Development.

*awaits stoning*

Topic

[ChrisM]

I did submit my answers, but I found it difficult to choose. For example I’m into The Sarah Connor Chronicles at the moment. I’m enjoying it, but since we’re only 3 episodes in so far it didn’t seem fair to include it.

There are also other shows like Galactica and Lost which are favourite shows of mine, but I didn’t want to include them as I can find quite major faults in them too. Ironically the faults don’t mean I necesarily like them less though… if that make sense. (I guess what I’m saying is, do I judge purely on my emotional reaction to the show, or how techically well it’s been constructed?)

Anyway I forget now all the shows I chose, but I definitely chose Red Dwarf, Buffy and Firefly, not necesarily in that order. I think I chose Babylon 5 as well, although my feelings for that show waver depending on episode. Overall I think it’s a good un but I find some of the script and characters a bit cheesy. (Mainly theh human characters.) I loved the main story arcs with the Shadow War, Psi corp uprising, etc though. And the darker alien character were wonderful.

I haven’t picked up the new Babylon 5 DVDs yet.

[Ian Symes]

What a stupid poll. Top five TV programmes? That’s like asking for your top five socks. How ludicrously vague.

[Anonymous]

Gah, it’s stupid.

I went for

1. Battlestar Galactica (new seres)

2. The Simpsons

3. Star Trek Enterprise

4. Doctor Who

5. Red Dwarf

But what about Arrested Development, South Park, the other Star Treks? Spaced? The X-Files?

And they’re not the top 5 greatest, they’re just what I like most at the moment.

Piss and biscuits. It’s daft.

[Pete Part Three]

1. I’m Alan Partridge
2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
3. The Office
4. Red Dwarf
5. Blackadder

My problem with this is that TV Programmes are far less “constant” than films. I could list 5 of my favourite films, but TV shows have off-days or jump the shark (to use an annoying phrase).

Polling individual episodes would be better as it’s preferable to putting brackets after shows with the words “(Except for Series VII and VIII!)” or “(But not the first series as that was crap!)”.

Here’s mine;

1. I’m Alan Partridge – Basic Alan
2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer – The Zeppo
3. Doctor Who – Blink
4. Red Dwarf – Back to Reality
5. South Park – Kenny Dies

See, Doctor Who wouldn’t make my top 10 (or even top 15) of shows, but Blink was SOOO good.

[penny]

>Buffy the Vampire Slayer – The Zeppo

The Zeppo is good, but The Pack is better…totally my fav.

[Anonymous]

> 1. I?m Alan Partridge – Basic Alan

Interesting…I would have gone for Alan Attraction meself.

[John Hoare]

I’d put all of Knowing Me, Knowing You above IAP, to be honest – as much as I love IAP.

Come to think of it, I’d probably put any episode of The Day Today above it, as well…

[Anonymous]

Interesting. I do love KNKYWAP, but compared to I’m Alan Partirdge, the humour is much broader.

Different strokes for different folks.

[pfm]

> I?d put all of Knowing Me, Knowing You above IAP, to be honest

*sigh*

[John Hoare]

Bear in mind that I really do love IAP! Even the second series, which has vastly grown on me since first broadcast.

But KMKY makes me laugh a lot more. I’ve always found Alan at his most amusing when put in a broadcasting context – most of my favourite bits of IAP are in the radio studio. His personal life is interesting and funny and well-written and everything, and I could read articles like this all day – but I laugh far more at him looking down at a group of dirty French mime artists and saying “You’re a disgrace.”

[Seb Patrick]

>Even the second series, which has vastly grown on me since first broadcast

Word. And it continues to do so, as well. And I think I find myself quoting series two far more than series one, which is strange. I don’t think it’s better, it’s just… different. And it was hard to appreciate that first time out.

>But KMKY makes me laugh a lot more.

I personally think this is the finest Partridge moment/sequence. Although I love the stuff with Alan Ford, as well. “That was a couple of ponces mincing about talking rubbish”…

[Anonymous]

IAP series 2 has always been my favourite. Don’t think I’ve ever loved any comedy show so immediately on first viewing.

Alan’s Dantes Fires presentation is possibly my favouritest comedy moment ever.

[Andrew]

> IAP series 2 has always been my favourite. Don?t think I?ve ever loved any comedy show so immediately on first viewing.

I was gutted on first broadcast, really disappointed. It’s grown on me a lot, I enjoy it now, but I remember wondering just what had gone wrong…

I’m with John, though – the ‘presenter mode’ Partridge is where a lot of the gold is. That extra level, masking your own personality (unsuccessfully) until you can no longer contain it, makes for some rich comedy. And I don’t think it’s ‘broader’ at all.

[Anonymous]

He just seems a shallower character, though. Maybe it’s the more obvious audience reaction…or Coogan “playing up” to it…but he never feels as “real” in Knowing Me Knowing You.

You never get to explore his dark undercurrents in the same way as in IAP.

Similar difference as with Darkplace / Man to Man With Dean Learner.

But I definitely think it’s broader comedy… Keith Hunt, Tony LeMesmer, Forbes McAllister… they’re just massively larger than life characatures and I think the same goes for Partridge in KMKYWAP.

Compare them to characters like Michael and Lynne and Alan’s interactions with them. Just feels deeper and (whilst still rather larger than life) more real…which I prefer.

That’s not to say I don’t love Knowing Me Knowing You… it’s still one of the bestest things ever.

[Andrew]

> but he never feels as ?real? in Knowing Me Knowing You.

Well, sure, but that’s the formatting – if you follow Parkinson home with a hidden camera, he’ll show more facets than if you just watch his chat show. I like that the dark undercurrents, the dreadful attitudes, have to be hidden, I like that knowing you’re on TV, being watched, forces you to bury that stuff. In a comedy, I like seeing what that does to a person.

I think you’re stating a general preference for ‘realist-sitcom’ over ‘parody chatshow’, which is a totally reasonable preference, but doesn’t make one better (or more substantial) than the other. They have different aims, they’re not trying to do the same job.

> Compare them to characters like Michael and Lynne and Alan?s interactions with them.

As opposed to the fat suit, Toblerone addiction and the Ukrainian girlfriend? :-)

How could KMKYWAP have avoided ‘big’ characters, when the entire format IS a chat-and-variety show? When you’re talking about celebrities and performers, a certain archetype is part of the game. (And away from celebs, there’s nothing overly ‘broad’ or cartoonish about the ‘other’ Alan Partridges, or Tony Hayers.) An Alan-and-Lynne conversation in the middle of a broadcast chat show would have been totally wrong for the format.

IAP uses its own fairly typical sitcom archetypes – people for Alan to bully, and ‘normal’ people who roll their eyes at his behavior – after all. Reflecting a genre forces your to incorporate some its nature, but that doesn’t automatically render you less. Had there been a show about Alan talking to those guests backstage, there’s no doubt it would have been handled as per IAP. But with an audience, as part of a broadcast show, it’s done just right.

[Andrew]

Reading that rant back, I guess I should also say that I don’t think I’d like anything more than to see the sometimes-muttered full half-hour of Alan’s game show, Skirmish.

Which is to say, for example, if there were to be a Partridge Christmas special this year, I’d rather it be set in front of the cameras. An IAP one-off would be great, but, for me, Skirmish would be greater.

[John Hoare]

I feel that IAP2 is the broadest of the Partridge shows – just from the way Coogan plays Partridge, as much as anything else. Which isn’t bad, or wrong, mind, even though it’s still my least favourite Partridge series. (I think one of the main problems with IAP2 is that the general plot for the series goes pretty much nowhere, which gives the show a really odd feeling. It’s all a huge anti-climax, wheras it felt like they were building to something.)

Incidentally, Armando Iannucci says on the commentary for The Armando Iannuci Shows that when he watched an episode of IAP2 recently, he thought it was terrible. I don’t agree with him in the slightest – but it’s interesting that the series obviously didn’t turn out as he wanted it to. And he did have a nervous breakdown halfway through shooting…

[John Hoare]

Reading that rant back, I guess I should also say that I don?t think I?d like anything more than to see the sometimes-muttered full half-hour of Alan?s game show, Skirmish.

Oh YES. I remember saying this at the time – in fact, a lot of people did. And it seems like such an odd omission, as well. Maybe they thought it would be funnier not seeing it – maybe to fit in with the idea that NOBODY sees it? – but if so, they were wrong.

IAP2 is an odd series, though. You really have to adjust your mind to it, in a way you didn’t with previous series, and – for me at least, forgive quite a few weird things with the production. The last scene with the headmaster in the first episode is a case in point – it’s funny… but it also feels a really clumsy and awkward way to end the plot. It’s too short as much as anything else, and very weirdly edited. At times, the whole series feels like it was hacked together in the edit suite.

And yet… forgive all that, and there’s SO much to enjoy. “I disagree, he’d go to Legoland. Bye.”

[Anonymous]

My whole point was that I preferred the style of IAP, not that it was better. Never said that.

I would however argue that Alan with an obese eating disorded-riddled Alan or his eccentric Ukranian girlfriend aren’t as broad as characters like Keith Hunt, Tony LeMesmer and Forbes McAllister. I would have preferred it if the guests were toned down slightly. Look at his interactions in IAP with the Chris Morris farmer or the tranquiliser-addicted radio guest. They’re low key. I reckon Alan is a big enough character and he doesn’t need larger than life foils. Over-eggs the pudding a bit.

[Pete Part Three]

^ Agreed.

Have always loved this from KMKYWAP though…

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5g2Jksk8WVE

[John Hoare]

But if you didn’t have the slightly larger-than-life characters, then you haven’t got a parody/satire/whatever of light entertainment any more. Which would render the whole thing slightly pointless. IAP’s guests on Radio Norwich work because they’re also exactly the kind of guests you’d get on a local radio show.

STOP GETTING PARTRIDGE WRONG.

One of my favourite bits from KMKY, anyway:

[Seb Patrick]

Pete, in the Abba medley, the bit that makes it for me is where he tries to go too high, and has to drop back down.

And yeah, I think the point of KMKYWAP is that the characters are parodies of existing people – Chris Evans, David Copperfield and so on. The show is about Alan in that environment. IAP (series one) is about Alan attempting to adapt to life in the real world, because all he’s really known is the telly world of KMKYWAP. And IAP series two is about him going steadily more insane in a fantasy world of his own creation…

[John Hoare]

And IAP series two is about him going steadily more insane in a fantasy world of his own creation?

It would have been interesting if they’d gone even further down that road.

Mind you, I’m the kind of sadist that thinks it would have been interesting to have set the series a couple of years earlier, during his breakdown. But I understand why that might not have been deemed hilarious telly!

[pfm]

> I was gutted on first broadcast, really disappointed. It?s grown on me a lot, I enjoy it now, but I remember wondering just what had gone wrong?

Well let’s be honest, the first episode is crap and the second not much better. It’s really saved by the ‘Dan’ episode and Never Say Alan Again (they’re the only ones that seem planned in any way, the others are so random). The series is all over the place in terms of comedy. John’s right in saying it doesn’t go anywhere. They should have had Alan really losing it again at the end of the series. I thought that was what it was building up to. There were moments of madness in the earlier episodes (the airbag going off, his foot on the spike etc.) which I thought were leading to something.

One thing I thought they did wrong was to actually show him when he was fat. It should have just been implied with little details being thrown in each episode about what happened.

[John Hoare]

They should have had Alan really losing it again at the end of the series. I thought that was what it was building up to.

Yes, this is EXACTLY it.

The scene where his book’s being pulped just isn’t enough.

[Ridley]

Anyone know how the Partridge movie is doing?

[si]

I’ve never got round to reading this thread – don’t know why – and still haven’t, to tell the truth – it’s too long, and the library only gives me an hour. However, anybody who prefers The Office to my beloved Red Dwarf deserves to be killed to death.

Hyperdrive on the other hand…

(Joke. Dead pan mode.)

I notice that people keep bringing up Partridge, but I was never that big a fan – I thought it was funny, but never went out of my way to watch it.

There’s plenty that I adore, comedy wise – Spaced, Python, League of Gentlemen, but do I prefer it to Red Dwarf? Never.

[Rushy]

I don’t think there’s any comedy I prefer to Red Dwarf, although I do love the first two seasons of Two and a Half Men. 
There’s also some episodes of Blake’s 7 which are fantastically funny. “Gambit” and “Orbit” by Robert Holmes are such delights. “The Harvest of Kairos” by Ben Steed is pony in all the best ways. 

[Technopeasant]

I read this as “How do you prefer to Red Dwarf?” which is a different topic.

The short answer is nothing. Red Dwarf is my favorite television show of all time.

[Warbodog]

My child, I suppose.

The universe and existence generally. It has its bad patches, but there’s also Red Dwarf VIII.

[Warbodog]

Just seen that people were choosing their top 5 TV shows. That’s what existence is about!

Red Dwarf

This Morning with Richard Not Judy

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Farscape

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

maybe.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Red Dwarf

London’s Burning

The West Wing

Battlestar Galactica 

then a string of others fighting for 5th place just based on regular rewatches

Community, Parks and Rec, Doctor Who probably, Band of Brother’s 

[Warbodog]

Loads for my fifth place too. BSG, League of Gentlemen, lots of comedies, “Derren Brown” if I can pretend he’s all one show.

But when rewatching various old favourites in the last decade, Buffy had the right mix of drama and levity that I could always be in the mood for and I zoomed through it, however dumb it got. Like how any time I consider trying out some era of Doctor Who, I just want to go back to Matt Smith for the eleventh time instead, I know I’ll have a good time..

[Moonlight]

I love Red Dwarf to death but classic-era Simpsons will always be my all-time favorite show.

[Technopeasant]

* sigh*

Americans…

(It is definitely in the running though, especially since I got into RealJims)

[Moonlight]

One was on in the house all the time since I was a baby and the other I discovered when I was 11 and nobody else in my family was into it the way I was.

[Technopeasant]

I’m honestly not sure which I saw first.

[Technopeasant]

Also worth noting, nearly 20 years later and The Simpsons is still on…

Also Red Dwarf came back.

[International Debris]

Red Dwarf is my favourite show. There are comedies I think are better written – Seinfeld, pre-zombie Simpsons, One Foot in the Grave, Porridge – but RD has a place in my heart that comes from a mix of nostalgia, nerdy fandom and the sci-fi element. 

I’d probably struggle to do a top 20 shows these days, there are so many. 

[Technopeasant]

[RunawayTrain]

Cabin Pressure, probably.  And Taskmaster, but I don’t think that really counts because it’s a completely different genre of comedy.  There’s not a huge gap though, Red Dwarf is very close behind them.

[Author]

Replies