DwarfCast 148 – Blackadder the Third: Nob and Nobility – Commentary DwarfCasts Posted by Jonathan Capps on 2nd February 2022, 13:14 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes Carrotists assemble, for it is time to travel back to the time of violent revolution, flamboyant trousers, Le Pimpernel Scarlet and *very* suspicious sausages as DwarfCasts continue its series of ‘Dwarf adjacent commentaries’ with the classic episode of Blackadder the Third, Nob and Nobility. We also take the opportunity to talk at length about our love for the show while answering your Bladder specific waffles. DwarfCast 148 – Blackadder the Third: Nob and Nobility – Commentary (94.6MB) While we figure out what to do for our next commentary we’ll be putting out our third Wafflemen special after Issue #2 of the Smegazine rack, so please use the comments section to get your non-specific Waffles logged before we record this weekend. Show notes Behind the scenes footage of the Blackadder Goes Forth rehearsals. Red Dwarf finished 18th in the BBC’s 2004 Britain’s Best Sitcom poll. Tom Blades performed the guitar solo for Red Dwarf’s opening titles, but Howard Goodall can’t remember if it was him or Ian Lawes on Blackadder. The opening credits to The Flashing Blade – a possible inspiration for The Black Adder.
I love the fact that I knew Red Dwarf was at 18 in that poll as well. One of those bizarre bits of trivia that’s always stuck with me. I was convinced it was going to be in the top ten because everybody I knew liked it. Enjoyed that immensely, anyway, thanks chaps. As a kid it was always my second show behind Dwarf so it’s a joy to hear all the love and discussion. Would happily listen to a full series of commentaries.
Yeah, cracking commentary. Lots of great points and interesting discussion. Particularly enjoyed the parts that touched on the role class plays in Blackadder. Red Dwarf obviously spends a lot of time dealing with class too, but I feel like it gives a broader picture, whereas Blackadder feels a bit more narrowly focused on the upper/middle classes – even Baldrick as a lower-class representative is often just a punchline for that reason. Fantastic Wafflemen song too. And on the subject of favourite series, it’s between series 2 and 3 and Christmas Carol for me. But am I right in thinking that Blackadder was similar to Red Dwarf in that the first series was unrepeated (or at least less repeated than the others) and wasn’t available on VHS until after the other, later series had come out? I have memories of growing up on Blackadder II and Blackadder The Third on VHS and wearing those out (as well as watching Blackadder Goes Forth as it was broadcast), and only after that going back and discovering The Black Adder once it came out on VHS. (Between Blackadder, Fawlty Towers and Red Dwarf I watched a huge amount of BBC sitcom VHSs as a child.)
I have memories of growing up on Blackadder II and Blackadder The Third on VHS and wearing those out (as well as watching Blackadder Goes Forth as it was broadcast), and only after that going back and discovering The Black Adder once it came out on VHS. Checking the dates for the home releases, it looks like this experience might have been condensed into a relatively short space of time. Apparently the VHS releases of II and Third both happened in the same year as Goes Forth aired – 1989 – and then the VHS of The Black Adder followed in 1990.
Waffle Q: You find yourself in a Yesterday situation where you are the only one who knows about Red Dwarf. What does your version of Dwarf look like with full creative control in 2022.
As far as The Black Adder, according to the Genome it got a repeat run in 1984, the year after it came out, but not again until 1990, by which point all the other series been made. So I guess the jury’s still out on whether there was a moratorium on repeating it, but given the sequel took three years to come out, I’d learn towards not.
But am I right in thinking that Blackadder was similar to Red Dwarf in that the first series was unrepeated (or at least less repeated than the others) There’s the same sense of the creators’ (former) dissatisfaction in the first series being ignored by Christmas Carol. Series 3 feeling like the underdog/’connoisseur’ series seems to be based on the notion that people are less familiar with its (typically historically inaccurate) setting, as if that should be a barrier. Or maybe it’s the smaller ensemble that makes it less memorable (Mrs Miggins being separate and not feeling like a Nursie/Melchett equivalent). Or maybe the politics of the first episode followed by the excessive wordplay of the second are off-putting to some, before it gets to the sillier ones. I can’t pick a favourite series, but Bells & Head is definitely the strongest opening volley.
I suppose that’s true about the Christmas Carol, but I always put it down the characters being so wildly different to what was later established, not to mention most of the supporting cast of TBA not being in Carol, Tim McInnerny included, and none of the Fry/Laurie/Richardson crew having a role in TBA. I suppose they could have always used Queen Victoria and Prince Albert as the Spanish Infanta and her translator again, or King Richard IV’s messenger. Might have had to do a bit of recasting if Princess Leia had come back, mind. P.S. I’ve not had chance to listen yet in case this gets a mention, but for more Dwarf-adjacent Blackadder, the pilot episode has Todhunter in it as Edmund’s brother.
I don’t tend to listen to these (*shame mode* I just find listening to new things quite difficult) but will certainly try to give this one a listen! Nice excuse to have to watch Blackadder again too. If you need Dwarf-adjacent inspiration, there’s always Brittas … ! 7 series, plenty to be going on with ;D Edit: The Thin Blue Line is also adjacent, with Howard Goodall in common – additionally I seem to recall reading somewhere that Chris Barrie was considered for the role of Inspector.
Well, one of you can sing and I want to hear more of it!! Bravo! Thanks, that’s me. I also recorded the music myself.
Great podcast, I was all ready to disagree that The Blackadder has anything worth watching in it, but actually Peter Cook’s ”…Not that you’ve been seeing much of me anyway…’ as he disappears always sticks in my mind as funny. Dislike the Queen of Spain’s Beard because of the rape gag, but Jim Broadbant is great, yeah. Blackadder 5 surely would’ve had Geoffrey Palmer in it as a main character since he was the guest star in Goodbyeeee. Amy and Amiability’s thumbnail on britbox is currently from Blackadder II’s Beer. Now, I’m not saying this is your fault, G&T, but if it’s not fixed by the time I wake up, I’ll be very cross indeed.
When I was a kid, my favourite was easily The Black Adder, and I’ve never really been sure why. I remember being genuine shocked when Britain’s Best Sitcom was on and I found out that it wasn’t held in particularly high regard, though I’ve since come to terms with that being down to how tonally different it is, the lack of rapid fire knob gags, similes and silly names, and the established characters being so different and “unfamiliar” for people who saw any other series first. That, and it being objectively “less good” than the other series, rather than it being “bad”, so it was nice to hear it being defended here. Blackadder the Third was always my least favourite, and again I’ve never been quite sure why. The lack of Percy? The lack of Melchett, even though I knew he came back later? Blackadder being even more subservient? To me, it was always the one I watched because it was part of the run, or because I’d watched the others too many times, but never one that was a go-to, never one that I was “in the mood” for. And yet, I probably cite it as my favourite one now. Maybe a greater understand of politics? Maybe a greater understanding of the class divide? Perhaps the fact it has been my least-viewed series has kept it fresher than the contents of Baldrick’s trousers? All that said, Blackadder Goes Forth is objectively the best one. Most of the recognisable regulars, most of the recognisable guest cast (Flashheart! Bob!), terrific wordplay, sharp lines (“God, it’s like Crufts in here”), double entendres (“I want to glaze you in honey, Darling!”), toilet humour (“Have you ever felt the wind rushing through your hair? *FART* He has!”), immensely quotable (“No, I’ve just put my elbow in a blob of ice cream”, “Here’s looking at you from all the boys in the firing squad!”), and the revelation some years earlier that Stephen Fry had opted to play Melchett as having piles. I never picked up on that as a kid, but I crack up every time he groans when he sits down because he hasn’t been wiping his arse properly. Also, “BAAAAA!” Also, the fact that there were people who lived World War I still alive during our lifetimes drove home how much more real it all felt. Oh, and the ending, yes. Darling’s announcement that they lived through The Great War, 1914-1917 is utterly heartbreaking, as is Blackadder telling Baldrick his cunning plan will have to wait, and how his own plan to pretend to mad was never going to work considering the state of everyone else. Also, a really great joke that gets trampled under the gravity of the situation, with Baldrick complaining “There’s a nasty splinter on that ladder, Sir. A bloke could hurt himself on that!” as they’re about to go over the top and face German machine gun fire. See also: “I hope you’ve got your stick, lieutenant.” Honestly, it’s not hipsterish to say Goes Forth is the best one. It might be a cliché, but clichés usually become clichés for a reason, and that reason is often because there’s some level of truth to it. It would probably be more hipsterish to claim The Black Adder is the best one and The Third is rubbish, unless of course, you were just a naïve young child who didn’t know any better at the time…
as is Blackadder telling Baldrick his cunning plan will have to wait … Also, a really great joke that gets trampled under the gravity of the situation, with Baldrick complaining “There’s a nasty splinter on that ladder, Sir. A bloke could hurt himself on that!” These two are linked though, right? It’s never explicitly stated, but I’ve always assumed the implication is that Baldrick’s plan is to pretend to hurt himself on the ladder and not go over the top, justifying it as being due to the injury. We don’t clearly see Baldrick in that final slo-mo montage and I always wondered whether we’re meant to think he avoided it and that one of his cunning plans finally worked.
The Black Adder has The Black Seal, which to me is genuinely up there with later series in terms of quality. It’s the episode where Edmund finally has enough and becomes a bit of a cunt, it’s so much faster in pace, generally a lot dafter, has a Rik cameo, and ends with everyone dying, so all-round much closer in style. It’s utterly brilliant.
I agree – weirdly it feels like the show finds itself in that final episode of the first series. It makes the rest of The Black Adder feel almost like an extended prologue.
The Black Adder has The Black Seal, which to me is genuinely up there with later series in terms of quality. It’s the episode where Edmund finally has enough and becomes a bit of a cunt This great line always stands out to me as being much more like the insults of the later series than anything else in TBA: Edmund (to Percy): You ride a horse rather less well than another horse would, your brain would make a grain of sand look large and ungainly, and the part of you that can’t be mentioned, I am reliably informed by women around the Court, wouldn’t be worth mentioning even if it could be.
I also think the whole blue eyes/Stone of Galveston conversation is a great bit of proto-Blackadder II silliness between Edmund and Percy.
as is Blackadder telling Baldrick his cunning plan will have to wait … Also, a really great joke that gets trampled under the gravity of the situation, with Baldrick complaining “There’s a nasty splinter on that ladder, Sir. A bloke could hurt himself on that!” These two are linked though, right? It’s never explicitly stated, but I’ve always assumed the implication is that Baldrick’s plan is to pretend to hurt himself on the ladder and not go over the top, justifying it as being due to the injury. We don’t clearly see Baldrick in that final slo-mo montage and I always wondered whether we’re meant to think he avoided it and that one of his cunning plans finally worked. Oh I like that. Speaking of Baldrick’s catchphrase, Tony Robinson claims to have added “cunning” to “I have a plan”, but Philip Fox says it in the pilot, so chinny reckon. Could still be true I suppose. IIRC it appears sans “cunning” more than once in II and doesn’t really become a catchphrase til the Third.
I also think the whole blue eyes/Stone of Galveston conversation is a great bit of proto-Blackadder II silliness between Edmund and Percy. That’s better than “purest green”, imo.
The counterfeit relics scene from The Archbishop stood out as the first really funny bit of the series the last time I watched through, with the Sacred Appendage Compendium Party Pack et al. It’s just odd when watched out of context for Baldrick being a completely different character.
of Mr. Elton’s later television work: -Thin Blue Line – i don’t have very clear or very fond memories of -The Wright Way – not only literally the worst television programme that existed but the worst television programme that could exist -Upstart Crow – a watchable pastiche of classic sitcoms. not bad, considering
I think that Thin Blue Line was often quite good, but wasn’t a classic and wasn’t greatly loved as it wasn’t at the same level as much of Atkinson’s previous stuff. Although that’s a tall order. Great stuff from David Haig though. Upstart Crow I think is generally not bad. It might be fairly broad but there are some good performances and I think the writing works for what it is. It’s maybe the closest modern counterpart of Blackadder. (Not to mention it potentially being able to be considered as part of the Blackadder Extended Universe given Bob’s appearance in that one episode.)
I quite like Upstart Crow. It doesn’t always work, but it’s far, far better than it should be. Blessed was poor, and Get a Grip was absolutely fucking dire. Astonishing to think he was doing “the difference between men and women” type observational comedy in 2007.
It’s maybe the closest modern counterpart of Blackadder (Not to mention it potentially being able to be considered as part of the Blackadder Extended Universe given Bob’s appearance in that one episode.) Interesting! I didn’t know about that!
This Dwarfcast has encouraged me to go and dig out The Cavalier Years, which I’ve somehow never watched in full, despite having seen clips here and there over the years. Turns out it’s on my Blackadder DVD set on the same disc as Back And Forth (I wonder why I’d never discovered that before – it’s almost as if the disc is being used for the first time). Anyway, it’s great isn’t it? A proper full-on mini-episode that’s had some real effort put into it, and with some excellent gags. A bona fide worthy part of Blackadder in its own right. Imagine if we’d got something like this for Red Dwarf. Also, I don’t know if it’s just my perception, but it feels like Comic Relief has done fewer of these proper mini-episodes over the years in favour of shorter sketch stuff. I imagine it’s quite a lot of effort to make something like this as a one-off.
Great podcast as always, for one thing it made me realise that I’ve been pronouncing Tim McInnerny’s surname wrong all these years! I’ve only ever properly watched The Blackadder from start to finish once in the mid-90s and my perspective on it would have been very clouded by the prevailing opinion that it was “the shit one that cost way too much to make” as such my view on it was pretty lukewarm at that time. I really should give it another watch (I’m guessing it’s all on BritBox? I might have to actually sign up to that if so!) 2 – 4 is just such a good run of comedy when you think about it, there are of course sections that are stronger than others, and plenty of legitimate reasons can be given for why any individual series is best or at least your personal favourite, but whatever way you cut it you’re looking at a solid run of exceptional TV. I quite like The Thin Blue Line, but admittedly haven’t rewatched any of it since the late 90s. It was never in danger of troubling Blackadder in terms of quality but there are some great jokes and performances in there. Upstart Crow has never really won me over – I watched half of the first series about 5 years ago but that was it. It all felt a bit too contrived, a bit like some alternate reality world where we’re getting to see the product of a little David Mitchell appearing on Jim’ll Fix It and asking if Jim can fix it for him to appear in a shit version of Blackadder. I did like Mark Heap in it though to be fair.
My first big Blackadder ‘rewatch’ was reading the script book from cover to cover on an uneventful family holiday around 1999 (and maybe before/after). A lovely book, but I guess people don’t do that sort of thing any more now you can just take TV with you. Still, I wonder why they never published the complete Red Dwarf scripts (up to whatever cut-off point) back then. Even Bottom had a complete script book, though Bottom and Blackadder both had fewer series (and Blackadder’s was hefty even omitting the specials). Maybe it was just a case of being a series or two too long by the time they got around to it, hence the best-of Soups (if that was the case, they could have published Volume 1 and Volume 2 like Just the Shows, since they ended up publishing two books anyway, even before the VIII book). Or maybe because those other series had fairly definitively concluded and Red Dwarf hadn’t (didn’t stop them publishing the Companion and things though). I wouldn’t care about it now, but a mid-to-late-90s release would have helped to bridge that gap where you couldn’t even buy some of the series and I could have had two great holiday books.
Getting a name drop made me smile on my morning walk into the office today, and I’m proud of you all for not saying “Smegley”. I’ve only watched The Black Adder once and that was when I first bought the complete DVD boxset and I’ve never felt the need to rewatch it since. Maybe if I’d seen it before the other 3 series I’d look on it more fondly. Blackadder’s Christmas Carol is by far the superior ‘special’ to Back & Forth and is one of the things I make sure I rewatch every December.
Getting a name drop made me smile on my morning walk into the office today, and I’m proud of you all for not saying “Smegley”. Damn it, what a missed opportunity!
Back and Forth is pretty rubbish, but it’s better than Red Dwarf’s lowest point. I do recall it being the best bit of going to the “dome” in 2000. Actually, scratch that. It’s the *only* thing I recall of going to the dome in 2000. Blackadder the Third is my favourite series, (although I think Nob and Nobility might actually be my least favourite of the 6 episodes). I like the dynamic of BlackAdder being in a position of supposedly little power, but constantly manipulating George. One of my favourite moments is the end of Amy and Amiability where with one line (“How about a game of cards, sir?”) we know Edmund’s won again.
Back and Forth is pretty rubbish, but it’s better than Red Dwarf’s lowest point. What’s worse, every thread being full of Smega-Drive memes or every thread being one comment away from another Series VIII discussion.
What’s worse, every thread being full of Smega-Drive memes or every thread being one comment away from another Series VIII discussion.
What’s worse, every thread being full of Smega-Drive memes or every thread being one comment away from another Series VIII discussion. The meme thread having turned into a Sonic thread.
I don’t quite understand the hate for Back and Forth, I really enjoy it. Though granted I’ve not seen it for a while, and I’m current on Goes Forth on a rewatch inspired by this Dwarfcast, so my opinion my change now I’m a bit older. But I generally like a bit of a light hearted meta romp, and that’s all Back and Forth is. I don’t remember it being bad on comedy or anything. Though possibly I have special memories of it as I saw it at the Dome when I would have been 12 maybe and just found it utterly hilarious. But that hasn’t changed on re-watches over the years.
What’s worse, every thread being full of Smega-Drive memes or every thread being one comment away from another Series VIII discussion. I should have said Back and Forth was better than Timewave, but I’m old school.
I love Back and Forth – watch it every year as an NYE tradition. It’s genuinely hilarious (melchitt’s skirt, ‘greatest genius who ever lived’, garlic pudding etc) and we get a ton of new Blackadders into the bargain. Although a part of me will always want more Blackadder, I think if there ever was going to be a final one to wrap it all up, this is a pretty perfect way to do it. All the old favourites are present and correct, and Edmund finally becomes king (again?) In the same way – I don’t ever want Red Dwarf to end, but if they did do a ‘final episode’ I think they could do worse than follow Blackadder’s example. I used to think the same about Doctor Who, that if they just did one great corker to finish it all off I’d be satisfied, but I don’t think it would be possible to end Doctor Who now, there’s just so much of it going on at any one time. Anyway thoughts
I preferred Back and Forth over some of the first series, but don’t feel the same pressure to have to watch it again. Another very flimsy Red Dwarf connection is the failed sitcom pilot 1775, considered to be an underhanded attempt to make a kind of Blackadder USA in 1992. Featuring Jeffrey Tambor and Adam West as George Washington, I found it less worse than Red Dwarf USA, so another glowing endorsement.
I think there are maybe three jokes in Back and Forth that I like. Generally a joy-free dirge of a ‘comedy’ though. The version on iPlayer with the laugh track is tellingly very quiet for the most part, as if the audience are waiting for actual jokes to come along. Which they probably are, I suppose.
I’ve never actually watched Back and Forth properly. I’ve seen snippets here and there but had heard enough “it’s a bit shit really” comments to put me off ever bothering to seek it out to watch in its entirety
For what it’s worth, having watched Back and Forth again now the other night, whilst I still enjoy it I can see why people don’t. It’s isn’t being clever, and it isn’t taking a look at class, or society or mocking history. It’s only looking at and referring Blackadder. I still think there’s some great stuff in there. Things like Shakespeare and Robinhood, and it’s great as a one off meta look at the show to bring it to a close.
I can’t remember the last time I watched Back and Forth – I did see it at the Millennium Dome and I know I’ve watched it as a young adult when it made a bit more sense after having actually seen a couple of series, but I don’t even recall watching it when I got the box set – I didn’t even realise it was on there, yet I watched all the other special features. So maybe I did and have just completely forgotten? Rather confusing (and I’m away at the moment so can’t get it out and watch).
I actually quite like Back & Forth. I always smile at the “King Lear, very funny” dig, and Rowan Atkinson’s little cringing action afterwards.
Does anyone have any delicious waffles for us to sample? We need a state of the board discussion about the amount of Sonic and Mario jokes slowly taking over.
Does anyone have any delicious waffles for us to sample? That’s a no, then is it? This was supposed to be a joke on the fact that Warbodog didn’t write anything after the blockquote. Arsicles.
Hello, back here after quite a while, and lots to catch up on. Very pleased to see the link to the Behind the Scenes footage – I think it’s on YouTube several times. Credit where it’s due: to my Mum. She just happened to have a day off work the afternoon this programme was broadcast, and said she’d record it for me if I left her a videotape for this purpose (I was at school). Many years later, after House MD began broadcasting but before YouTube was a thing, I extracted it and converted it to send to a friend who hosted a (now long-defunct) Hugh Laurie fansite. It subsequently got downloaded and reshared on YouTube several times over the years. I recognise the ‘A-TR’ auto-tracking that our video recorder was particularly fond of inflicting on the first few seconds of so many of our taped items. So, thanks to my Mum, even though she wasn’t particularly a Blackadder fan, regarding it as “rather coarse”.
I’m really quite impressed with the quality considering it must’ve been re-encoded so many times! Yes, I had lots of these types of clips, and chatshow appearances, taped between the late 1980s and mid-1990s. I’m pleased to say the majority survived well enough to make it to YouTube either the short or long way round. I always tried to figure out what made a good (ie long-lasting and well-preserved) recording, whether it was the machine, the videotape brand, but it was always beyond me. The era of rescuing stuff from VHS is now over but I can’t help but mourn the few notable items which were never in a good enough condition to transfer and have never been seen elsewhere – Craig Charles’ appearance on Star Test being a notable example.
Here’s a funny thing re the BTS footage – there’s a short – three and a half minutes – clip of it popped up on the BBC Archive YouTube channel this morning. The vid description also tells us that it was originally transmitted 16th October 1989.https://youtu.be/Wj6SIoTJn6U
Just nobody invite Frank Jackson – either the American basketball player or the Australian philosopher – or it will create a singularity that will consume the Earth.
Some moderately interesting Blackadder news: https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/7301/blackadder-pilot-to-be-broadcast/
Yeah, looking forward to seeing it. Aside from a few brief clips I’ve never watched it (am I misremembering, or have some poor-quality copies done the rounds over the years, Red Dwarf USA-style?).
Looking forward to seeing the pilot. The documentary I’m slightly less bothered about, given that we had one not that long ago and the title is bloody awful. I’ll still watch it, of course.
I always thought the pilot was really good, and fascinating in how it already feels closer to Blackadder II than the first series in some ways that would later be reverted. Obviously a worse Baldrick (not that he’s really memorable in series one anyway), but I prefer [Red Dwarf connection spoiler]’s more oblivious Prince Harry. Mainly disappointed that this update wasn’t a new Blackadder DwarfCast!
