BFI Screening Report & Red Dwarf Prequel news! Features Posted by evilmorwen on 5th November 2023, 20:52 Brace yourself for a bit of shock. G&T regular evilmorwen went along to the BFI screening of Backwards, complete with commentary and Q&A from Rob Grant, Ed Bye and Paul Jackson. They were kind enough to provide a full report, containing news that blew our minds. Rob Grant has been busy. Read on… As previously reported, the BFI Southbank saw, on Sunday, as part of a time travel strand, a screening of the episode Backwards, along with the first episode of ITV2’s time travel comedy Timewasters. Your correspondent had not previously seen Timewasters – a sitcom which posits the question “What if Goodnight Sweetheart except Nicholas Lyndhurst was a jazz quartet, and they’d gone back to the 1920s?” The answer is: quite good, and your correspondent will be watching more of it on Prime later. But I wasn’t there for that, and neither are you. We’re here for Red Dwarf. Rob Grant, Paul Jackson and Ed Bye – the old Quarantine Commentary team – were there to provide reactions, which they did sitting on the second row of the screen, providing a sort of MST3K-like silhouette. The commentary itself was rather restrained. It, as they pointed out, not being not possible for the audience to mix the audio, they largely sat back, pointed out favourite bits; occasional details about which bits were reversed, dubbed, and such, with the sort of joking familiarity we’ve seen before. Following the screening was a short discussion with critic Anna Smith. A new-to-me anecdote was told, in that apparently the schoolmate called Rimmer that the character is named for got in contact with them around 1991. He was a fighter pilot in the Gulf War – a real Ace Rimmer. After the episode of Timewasters and a similar discussion – this time with Smith and series creator and star Daniel Lawrence Taylor, they were joined by Rob, Paul and Ed for a short Q&A session. After this came the real surprise, when we were cautioned to definitely turn off any naughtily left-on recording devices – a short sizzle reel was screened, for a project to be called Red Dwarf: Titan, written by Rob Grant and Andrew Marshall – Rob’s recent writing partner on Quanderhorn and The Nether Regions. This would be a prequel to Red Dwarf, apparently featuring Young Rimmer and Young Lister, named for Saturn’s moon of Titan. It felt like it would occupy a similar space of the first section of Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers while perhaps being a little more adventure-focused. No further information was provided. It’s not even clear whether it would be a TV series or perhaps a radio thing. It could even be a book or a comic. In itself this isn’t News news. Sizzle reels are made in a very early stage of development, to drum up interest – a pilot script may not exist, it’s unlikely any big money is behind it, and certainly there is not yet a commission. But now we know a little bit more about what Rob Grant wants to do with Red Dwarf. And I’m there for it.
Hmmmm, not something I would have expected but also not immediately terrible-sounding. Not sure whether stories about a pre-accident Red Dwarf would have the same feel but it’d be interesting to see how they try to make it work.
There’s such a heavy consensus about the pre-accident stuff in Infinity being strong, I wonder if that influenced the idea at all. I’m immediately split on whether it’s the sort of thing that I want. Pre-accident, it could offer a lot of potential for character stuff, but it could also have the same issue as some Big Finish stuff, by putting too much emphasis on a period we previously believed short. I don’t get a feeling, from the TV series, that Lister and Rimmer had any lengthy contact before being put together as bunk mates. I can’t think of another example, although my mind is telling me that there are loads, but it made me think of the Tomb Raider trilogy from the ‘00s, where Crystal Dynamics remade the original game and tied in the big bad, Natla, to Lara’s family history. And I much, much preferred the simplicity of the first game where she was just someone Lara met. My gut reaction is the same here: Lister and Rimmer having a lengthy history other than Z Shift doesn’t feel quite right. I mean yeah, Red Dwarf, continuity, blah blah. It’s whether it’s good that matters, and I have my fingers crossed there. But the concept I’m not currently sold on. Obviously time will tell whether I’m overreacting. Maybe it’ll be a mini-series set during a week’s shore leave on Titan, a couple of months before The End. Interesting that he’ll be doing it with Andrew Marshall. Obviously they have a good working relationship, so that’s a positive. It seems a very different approach to Doug’s, though, which felt more like bringing in some guests to help at first, before taking over himself.
Maybe it’ll be a mini-series set during a week’s shore leave on Titan, a couple of months before The End A similar thought crossed my mind. It could be Frankenstein’s origin story.
Whilst I don’t think there’s anything in the series to suggestion Rimmer and Lister didn’t know each other before Lister joined Red Dwarf, I feel like it’s sort of taken that they first met on Red Dwarf so whilst it might not be a ret-con, if the series is both young Lister and Rimmer interacting on a pre-Lister joining Red Dwarf Titan then that would sort of change their relationship a bit I think If they don’t meet and they just both happen to be on Titan then doesn’t that basically break what’s great about Red Dwarf which is these two characters interacting?
Intriguing… thank you evilmorwen for bringing these tidings! I fear prequelitis as much as the next guy, but as with everything it all depends on execution. IWCD does seem like the obvious reference for a Red Dwarf prequel, but then why isn’t it called Red Dwarf: Mimas? Maybe it is a more immediate prequel in that case. Though obviously the best case scenario is that Lister and Rimmer are somehow both 3 years old at the same time and attending the same nursery school on Titan.
Though obviously the best case scenario is that Lister and Rimmer are somehow both 3 years old at the same time and attending the same nursery school on Titan. Smeghead Babies?
Similar misgivings. “Adventure-focused” doesn’t sound like it would feel of a piece with the early series. Exciting news all the same. When are tickets available?
I think you mean Jim Henson’s Smeghead Babies. With Kryten as Nanny. He’s three million years old so this would make perfect sense.
Hi, first post and all, but I was there as well and regarding all the I feel like it’s sort of taken that they first met on Red Dwarf type comments – the occasional text that popped up along with the title and “THREE MILLION AND THIRTY SEVEN YEARS AGO” also had something like (can’t remember the exact wording) “IN A UNIVERSE SLIGHTLY OFF TO THE SIDE”. Reading probably far too much into what’s just a very very initial stage of development, it’d seem like they’re saying “yep, we’re well aware this doesn’t fit with any established continuity, but who cares, let’s have some fun with versions of the characters anyway”. Given that this is coming from a writing team I trust to make me laugh, I love this development – and hell, even if it is awful, we can agree to collectively forget it ever happened, right?
so whilst it might not be a ret-con, if the series is both young Lister and Rimmer interacting on a pre-Lister joining Red Dwarf Titan then that would sort of change their relationship a bit I think It’s Mimas that Lister’s on before joining Dwarf. Titan is where he goes on shore leave and picks up Frankenstein, at some point before the events of The End. So a series on Titan would have Lister and Rimmer as bunkmates already.
It’s Mimas that Lister’s on before joining Dwarf. Titan is where he goes on shore leave and picks up Frankenstein, at some point before the events of The End. So a series on Titan would have Lister and Rimmer as bunkmates already. On the other hand, maybe Rob finally watched Ouroboros, saw that Doug changed Frankenstein’s moon of origin to Mimas, and so decided to change Lister’s MOO to Titan. Swapsies.
Pretty cool and exciting, I don’t think as Red Dwarf fans we can cling too tightly to continuity, and I’ll at least wait and find out what it actually is before deciding how much I like the idea. Let’s hope whatever it is, it gets confirmed.
I’d assume this would be a radio project. Seems about right really. I think doing an on screen prequel would be very risky considering it would need a recast and that would be weird as hell. Continuity Wise, yeah it’s gonna contradict Doug’s work but that’s what you get with them both doing their own thing really,
Ok so i believe i found the reel online on Vimeo and I’m fairly certain this was what was shown. This is not recorded, i believe this was the person who put the reel together. It was uploaded 3 months ago.
Well now I’m even more pissed that nobody at BBC Radio would hear my pitch for RED DWARF: CLITORIS. Looking forward to Doug’s Red Dwarf: Ganymede. Will we have to get both to complete the dex?
Ok so i believe i found the reel online on Vimeo and I’m fairly certain this was what was shown. This is not recorded, i believe this was the person who put the reel together. It was uploaded 3 months ago. That’s a lot of Dave era shots for a guy who hasn’t watched new Red Dwarf.
“oh yeah don’t secretly record it”, when it’s just on the internet for anyone for anyone to see. it was the second one btw, or close enough.
The first reel says “a sitcom by a Rob Grant and Andrew Marshall” and the 2nd one says “prequel by Rob Grant and Andrew Marshall”. Maybe nothing to read into though.
Ok so i believe i found the reel online on Vimeo and I’m fairly certain this was what was shown. This is not recorded, i believe this was the person who put the reel together. It was uploaded 3 months ago. That’s a lot of Dave era shots for a guy who hasn’t watched new Red Dwarf. I really admire Rob’s ability to not say “that was the other guy” when someone (I think Paul?) casually mentioned Tikka.
In that first version, I feel like they should have invested in captions I don’t have to squint at to read. So am I to gather that this is more like…an alternate universe version of the show where they don’t join Red Dwarf? Doing the kinds of stories you might get in regular Red Dwarf but set in a populated settlement? That could be interesting.
Didn’t think to add this in time to edit my last post but I really like seeing the Series I/II music over the Dave era ship and I kinda wish we could have done a version of that opening for Series X. It’s like the only time you could reasonably have used it again. But also you would have needed motion control of the bigature built for XI/XII to pull it off so maybe it’s best they didn’t try.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but, ooh. Interesting! Thanks for the write-up, as well! Would have loved to have gone but I had a prior commitment in the week and I can’t do two things within a few days of each other.
so whilst it might not be a ret-con, if the series is both young Lister and Rimmer interacting on a pre-Lister joining Red Dwarf Titan then that would sort of change their relationship a bit I think It’s Mimas that Lister’s on before joining Dwarf. Titan is where he goes on shore leave and picks up Frankenstein, at some point before the events of The End. So a series on Titan would have Lister and Rimmer as bunkmates already. I’d read “young” as much younger than a few weeks before the show starts as otherwise you’d not leave yourself much time. But as TimJ points out, continuity be damned basically. And that video does basically suggest a show that otherwise couldn’t exist if it were to try and keep to continuity in anyway. A sitcom set on a spaceport with droids and weird alien like things looks pretty cool. But there is absolutely no reason that would need to be Red Dwarf is there.
A sitcom set on a spaceport with droids and weird alien like things looks pretty cool. But there is absolutely no reason that would need to be Red Dwarf is there. It’ll come down to how true and fundamental the characterisation is to make it worthy of the IP (aside from obvious retcons needed for Cat and Kryten to be in it). We know our Rob can do that, or at least could.
It’ll come down to how true and fundamental the characterisation is to make it worthy of the IP (aside from obvious retcons needed for Cat and Kryten to be in it). We know our Rob can do that, or at least could. OK, I know this is purely a pitch at this point so we can’t know, but are we really expecting Cat and Kryten to be in it? Contriving a reason to include characters who are only meant to be around 3 million years in the future would surely go against the point of making a prequel series. Add new setting-appropriate characters please. (Or give the spotlight to established crewmates like Kochanski or Petersen or something.) If it is a radio series or a cartoon and they keep Craig and Chris playing the younger versions of their characters, I’m sure they could make roles for Danny and Bobby. They just don’t need to be Cat and Kryten. In fact, Bobby could potentially play an earlier generation mechanoid, if they’re determined to typecast him.
I am intrigued and interested, but not excited and I’ll keep it that way for now. We’ve been let down many times before
The video said something like “one universe over” so I think it’s safe to assume this is an AU and not a literal prequel to the TV series. Which is frankly the smart way to do it.
The “four” they’re referring to are clearly Lister, Rimmer, Hollister and Louis Pemberton. Louis Pemberton could have a budding friendship with Dwayne Dibbley.
Well now I’m even more pissed that nobody at BBC Radio would hear my pitch for RED DWARF: CLITORIS. Ah yes, a series about Lister’s music career: “Can Lister, Ignoble Technician, Offer Remarkable Interesting Sounds?” Or perhaps it’s set in a timeline where Arnold has been promoted, and Cat annoys him with tall tales: “Cat Lies Incessantly, Telling Officer Rimmer Incessant Stories” Or where Cassandra gives someone on the ship an advanced warning about the danger of an incorrect drive plate repair: “Computer Lady Informs Todhunter Of Rimmer’s Incompetent Structure”
Louis Pemberton could have a budding friendship with Dwayne Dibbley. It’s very much ‘The Odd Couple’ on Titan.
I’m all for the Red Dwarf Cyberpunk era and will be on to the Duke of Manchester to see how many millions he is prepared to put towards developing it (and the subsequent documentary on how they wasted 90% of it digitally de-aging Norman Lovett).
The first section of Infinity is my favourite Red Dwarf and I am one hundred percent here for this – even if it’s awful, which it will be, because anyone apart from CC and CB
I feel like Rob’s always enjoyed building a world beyond the TV series so this feels like a natural fit for him. I’m excited for it, in whatever format it eventually manifests – to be honest it’s just nice to know that the show isn’t completely dead and there’s something down the line to look forward to. Thanks for the update!
The first section of Infinity is my favourite Red Dwarf and I am one hundred percent here for this – even if it’s awful, which it will be, because anyone apart from CC and CB Anyone apart from CC and CB what? DON’T LEAVE ME HANGING.
Interesting that the Red Dwarf model shots were Dave era. Also every time a post series 6 concept was mentioned like Jesus or Kennedy I winced slightly on Rob’s behalf. Paul Jackson mentioned Kennedy twice.
The Radio Times caught up with Rob exclusively, and got him to say two sentences which didn’t actually need to be said. https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/red-dwarf-new-prequel-teased-exclusive-newsupdate/?fbclid=IwAR3FOLNNC6HsubXaIR7xrVULSY9LsP9vswFDsRghu6RV1sCK7XXuymT88pg
The Radio Times caught up with Rob exclusively, and got him to say two sentences which didn’t actually need to be said. https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/red-dwarf-new-prequel-teased-exclusive-newsupdate/ I’m guessing this exclusive catch up was a passing conversation whilst they happened to be using the urinals at the same time as him or something.
G&T mentioned on Chortle, what a time to be alive: https://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2023/11/06/54450/red_dwarf_prequel_in_the_pipeline
I’ve just remembered a nice moment. When Lister and Cat point to the address on the poster and say ‘can you drop us offski’ Rob said the caption should be ‘sure, this is the pub I just picked you up at’.
I’ve just remembered a nice moment. When Lister and Cat point to the address on the poster and say ‘can you drop us offski’ Rob said the caption should be ‘sure, this is the pub I just picked you up at’. but also really what should happen is that they are surprisingly bundled into the van.
The reel said something like Join a young Rimmer and Lister as they navigate a spaceport on Titan. Meet old friends they haven’t met yet and deal with rogue droids, martial arts apes, space spores, space pirates and food that tries to eat them.
Martial arts apes? I never expected that Rob would be the one to write a spiritual successor to Last Human.
File “martial arts gorillas” on the list of things making me suspect this is meant to be an animated series and not a radio program (and the setting feels too expensive to be live action TV). Do note that the only case in which a recast would be genuinely necessary would be a live action show. I’m not saying they wouldn’t cast new actors in the other two cases, but I am saying they could feasibly use Chris and Craig as voice actors for their characters. Make of that what you will.
It could still be a radio play. The Big Finish plays make you use your imagination for this stuff all the time for action scenes and whatever. Sadly i don’t know if anyone would fund an animated series for Red Dwarf, while a radio play would be cheap as hell. Id prefer it was Chris and Craig. But then Craig sounds much older than he did. but maybe that doesn’t matter.
Do radio plays still exist? I’m sure you’d make more money with a YouTube script reading rather than the radio
Well yeah Big Finish does audio plays. Loads of Doctor Who audios. I have heard a few but they take a good imagination to understand what’s going on as you don’t have a narrator and just sound effects. But big finish have been going since 2000 so they are clearly selling. Apparently they tried to get permission to do Red Dwarf ones but couldn’t.
Given that Rob and Andrew’s previous work together has all been for Radio 4, I think it’s fair to say radio plays still exist.
Rob made some kind of comment in the G&T interview that a novel version would be released in tandem with a radio/TV project, like happened with Quanderhorn, so we can speculate about multiple versions.
But big finish have been going since 2000 so they are clearly selling. Apparently they tried to get permission to do Red Dwarf ones but couldn’t. Big Finish have been going since 1996. They were already well established before starting the Who audios.
Slightly misleading – the company formed in 1996 (originally for a video project that never got off the ground), but their first release was in 1998 and was Bernice Summerfield (a companion from the Seventh Doctor novels) – they’d applied for the Who license and been denied so went for the next best thing. The first series of Benny was strong enough to get the BBC to reconsider and the next thing they did was Who.
I’m quite excited by the idea, though a radio play would be bottom of my list of what I’d want it to be. A TV or animated series would obviously be grand, but I’d be equally happy with a comic or a book.
Given how low everything seemed post TPL with the lawsuit etc. I’m just happy at the prospect of their being something tangible being worked on again, and by no less than Rob Grant. It might turn out to be a bit shit and fail to capture the vibes that we want from the show, but I’ll take an attempted reboot/retcon/prequel/alternate universe over nothing at all!
I think the current main 5 cast (as of the promised land) are focussed mostly on the idea of the next Doug Dwarf and other projects. Rob gets to write his originally created characters of Lister and Rimmer in a slightly differing young iteration with new young actors. That’s not to say that the cast of any actors from the original 36 episodes of red dwarf frp, Chris and Craig to Lee corns etc or anyone Rob’s worked with like Kevin Eldon etc would not show up as new characters in a one episode style. just my speculation. cat and kryten arent part of this era.
It did say “the feckless foursome are back” on the reel, though I don’t know how much stock you’d put in that at this point even “with a twist” and “one universe to the side”.
Slightly misleading – the company formed in 1996 (originally for a video project that never got off the ground), but their first release was in 1998 and was Bernice Summerfield (a companion from the Seventh Doctor novels) – they’d applied for the Who license and been denied so went for the next best thing. Fair enough. I just knew they didn’t begin with the Who audios, because I’ve got a release or two from around ’98.
I think the current main 5 cast (as of the promised land) are focussed mostly on the idea of the next Doug Dwarf and other projects. Rob gets to write his originally created characters of Lister and Rimmer in a slightly differing young iteration with new young actors. That’s not to say that the cast of any actors from the original 36 episodes of red dwarf frp, Chris and Craig to Lee corns etc or anyone Rob’s worked with like Kevin Eldon etc would not show up as new characters in a one episode style. just my speculation. cat and kryten arent part of this era. Considering how much time the non-red dwarf spare time the cast have had since TPL in 2020 I’d say they could work on the Rob Grant thing in as little as a week or 2. thats obviously if it’s just voice work.
I don’t think it’s necessarily just an issue of time commitment. There could also be a sense of loyalty to the person you’ve been making Red Dwarf with for the past 30 years.
If there are rival Red Dwarf projects in the works simultaneously, I could imagine it being awkward for the cast to be involved in both. Or maybe not and it could all be sorted out amicably, who knows.
It’s all vague speculation. Doug could very easily have phoned them up and said “Rob’s going to write some Dwarf, you absolutely have my blessing to get involved,” or they might decide that after 25 years, Doug Dwarf is the version they’re happy sticking with. Rob might not even be considering the original cast at all – they are younger and probably alternate versions of the characters, after all.
It’s all vague speculation Yes, nobody really knows anything at this point. All I’m saying is that the original cast’s involvement may not hinge on simply whether they have the time to do it.
I feel like you’re projecting things onto the actors here. Rob and Doug made that joint statement about them both intending to make their own Red Dwarf projects in the future. I don’t see why any of the cast would need or want to pick one creator and forsake the other, or why Doug would take offense to them working on a Rob project.
I’m not projecting anything, just saying that scheduling is not the only factor when it comes to whether they’d take a job on Rob’s version. The idea of loyalty to Doug was just an example, there could also be other factors to consider, contractual restrictions on their involvement that we aren’t privy to, pay negotiations, Rob’s creative wishes – anything really. Ever since the first announcement of the resolution and the parallel Rob/Doug projects, there’s been speculation over whether the cast would be (or would want to be) involved in both – on that front we still don’t know any more now than we did then really.
Also, I think we have to be realistic and acknowledge that there is inevitably going to be some degree of creative tension between Rob and Doug’s parallel universes – they’re both going to be working on different Red Dwarf projects that share some common ideas and are rooted in the work of a now-defunct creative partnership but are very much separate – so I’m not sure we should consider that the same cast working on both should be assumed or even likely.
For the cast, it would be incredibly awkward to be working with both Rob and Doug independently. The idea of working with Rob must be quite weird since he basically left the show and hasn’t wanted to be involved for over 20 years. He then forces some legal shit for the right to make his own version, and then approaches you to be in once he wins. The whole situation is unusual, I definitely don’t think it’s a stretch or a projection or anything to suggest the cast might not immediately jump at the idea of doing it, or that they would have a loyalty to Doug. Why wouldn’t they? He’s been keeping the show alive all this time. Imagine your boss leaves the company and then decades later turns back up with another company and offers you to do the same job for him on the side.
Well, I’m not saying that I think Craig, Chris, Danny and Bobby (and Norman/Hattie and Chloe) are guaranteed to be in it, if it even happens. I understand there are plenty of reasons they might not be. I’m just doubting that there being both a Rob Dwarf and a Red Doug track will be the key factor in whether they are or aren’t. Robert was very almost at this event, being with Rob as he teased this new project. So while I’m not discounting the possibility that there might be some awkwardness related to the Grant/Naylor split or the recent legal battle, the idea that the regular cast might keep themselves away from Grant projects over it just doesn’t ring true to me. If it was an either/or situation between Doug and Rob, then sure, but not as it stands. I do agree on the creative tension point, but as long as that tension resolves with them both using some or all of the same characters (and we already know that Titan will, unless it’s completely reworked), then it follows that they could also use some or all of the same cast.
Yeah it’s definitely a possibility, and the concept for Titan would seem to allow for at least Craig and Chris to return if it’s anything other than live action. I just couldn’t guess at how likely that is at this point. We maybe also shouldn’t necessarily assume that Rob would even want that, he may have other plans in mind.
Out of interest, why did Robert not attend this BFI thing in the end? Schedule conflicts or something? Rob was on set for the recording of the AA adverts a few years back wasn’t he? Feel like that would have all been a bit more tense if there were deep issues between him and the cast. Admittedly someone hanging around whilst you film an advert is a lot different from them coming back to try and get you to work on an alternate reality version of the show they abandoned decades previously for “reasons”
Out of interest, why did Robert not attend this BFI thing in the end? Schedule conflicts or something? Change of schedule for some filming commitments, I heard.
Change of schedule for some filming commitments, I heard. Doug probably needed him to film a “We hate Rob Grant” short
Out of interest, why did Robert not attend this BFI thing in the end? Schedule conflicts or something? Rob was on set for the recording of the AA adverts a few years back wasn’t he? Feel like that would have all been a bit more tense if there were deep issues between him and the cast. Admittedly someone hanging around whilst you film an advert is a lot different from them coming back to try and get you to work on an alternate reality version of the show they abandoned decades previously for “reasons” Id say its fairly clear there are no issues between him and the cast. Chris, Robert and Norman all did the quarantine commentaries with Rob, Ed and Paul. And he has been pictured with the cast many times over the years. There is really no reason for the cast to have any issues with Rob. He is still co-creator of this show and worked with them for 6 of those series.
Doug gets Craig, Norman, Robert and Chloe, Rob gets Chris, Danny, Hattie and Mac. Doug sets about writing Polymorph IV, in response Rob writes Polymorph III. Problem solved.
Doug gets Craig, Norman, Robert and Chloe, Rob gets Chris, Danny, Hattie and Mac. Doug sets about writing Polymorph IV, in response Rob writes Polymorph III. Problem solved. Doug already wrote Polymorph III though, Can of Worms. (Or was that the point and it whooshed right over my head?)
(Or was that the point and it whooshed right over my head?) Yeah, I’m pretty sure Cpt. Bollocks was talking about how Rob does not acknowledge solo Doug era canon, therefore a new Rob Polymorph episode would be competing with Can of Worms not a sequel to it.
Well if Psirens counts as a Polymorph episode, then so does Camille, which means Emohawk is Polymorph IV.
Maybe Robert Llewellyn’s Kryten has been a Polymorph all along and David Ross will turn up again at some point to take great offence at such a shoddy imitation.
Butler’s a polymath. Lemons features a holymorph: Jesus starts off as Christianity’s Messiah, and then transforms (from the audience’s POV) into just some bloke who happens to share the more famous one’s name.
