Did you spoil Buffy the Vampire Slayer? – Watchers!

I’m watching Buffy properly for the first time at the moment (two-thirds the way through the very-underrated Season 4) and… I think it might just be my favourite programme ever. It’s just too good at everything it turns its hand to… and it turns its hand to a hell of a lot of things. As much as anything else, it manages to be funnier than most sitcoms.

And I usually get a bit icky about expressions of love in drama, but Tara’s “I am you know… yours” in Who Are You makes me well up.

> I watched it from the start and just? wasn?t? thrilled.

Get. Out.

A list of Whedon’s episodes alone read like a collection of perfect TV moments – The Body, Hush, Once More With Feeling, Primeval, Innocence, The Gift, Lie to Me, Who Are You, Chosen. Full, rounded entertainment, each with individual AND overriding theses (how many shows can say THAT?) well-drawn characters, good jokes and big-impact drama.

Me and John are going to hold off watching The Body for a few months because my own mum died in March. We think it’s probably a *bit* too soon yet!

I’ve only ever really liked season three of Buffy – and the odd episode here and there – but I’m trying to get into it more. We’re working through season two at the moment – just got to “Halloween”, which was ace.

Angel, I feel, lacks the quirkiness of Buffy. Season 5, where they tweaked the format, is by far the best.

And then they cancelled it.

Makes sense.

I fucking hate all that Connor shit, though. And Angel acting in a really uncomfortably out of character way for what seems like only shock value. Trying to smother Wesley? C’mon… not Angel.

> For his child? The closest he?ll get to humanity, for the perceived betrayal of that? I buy it. I completely buy it.

But attempting to kill one of his closest friends and allies? When if he thought about it for a split second he’d be able to see exactly WHY Wesley did what he did? I dunno – not matter WHAT the situation. I’d buy him completely cutting Wesley off, but smothering him when he’s completely helpless, recovering from a slit throat? Nah, that’s not Angel at all.

And I think that’s why Connor is so loathed by certain people – his arrival (both as a baby and later as a HELL CHILD) triggers the complete destruction of a group people we’ve grown to love, often with out-of-character and major actions. It’s awfully hard to watch and show eat itself like that.

Very brave, but so awful at the same time.

> Nah, that?s not Angel at all.

I think this underestimates how drastically some people can feel about their offspring. As I say, worked for me.

Is there much of a consensus on this among the fanbase? I thought these were two of the best-regarded series. Don’t think things ‘often’ go out of character, either.

>Cute-Southern-girl turned-blue-demon.

Fred

Fred? Cute? What?

I know who she is. :p

> I think this underestimates how drastically some people can feel about their offspring. As I say, worked for me.

Fair enough. I guess I’m just a bit of a wuss with some shows, and I hate to see such extreme conflict between characters I love so much.

Amber Benson > Alyson Hannigan > Eliza Dushku > Amy Acker > Charisma Carpenter > Sarah Michelle-Gellar > Emma Caulfield

Hmm. Good one.

Sarah Michelle Gellar (season 1-3) > Eliza Dushku > Amy Acker > Charisma Carpenter > Alyson Hannigan > Emma Caulfield > Amber Benson

SMG lost too much weight around season 4 and dropped off my radar.

Amber Benson > Alyson Hannigan > Eliza Dushku > Amy Acker > Charisma Carpenter > Sarah Michelle-Gellar > Emma Caulfield

Feminist subtext? What’s that again?

Where to start…

Well, I guess the first thing is the ‘be her or do her’ thing. Sure, Buffy has an aspirational quality, but ‘the clothes’ aren’t any part of that. The show uses the language of teen TV and twists it. Buffy’s not written as especially hot – in fact she’s heavily placed as an outsider and outcast from the start.

Now, sure, it’s American TV – so nobody gets to be ugly. Apart from the bad guys. That’s just the way TV goes. The Doctor isn’t written as hot, but Tennant clearly is. But there’s nothing in ‘the point of the show’ that’s built on the idea that the core four are sexy. Xander and Willow are outsiders in high school, too weird and different to fit in – and damn, if you can’t relate to that, what school were you at.

Of course, the show is famous for having a problematic title. People dismiss it as a ‘hot chicks kick ass and look sexy’ show, because it wears a few of the clothes to get under the radar. (And how ghastly that shows like Charmed got better ratings because they thought the gloss WAS the content.) It’s easily done. It’s also easy to steer away from a show with such a large popular and cultural impact. I have a friend who HATED the way the show seemed to be, and the constant praise it got from friends. For years she avoided it, until I showed her a random episode (from the fifth series). It made her laugh so hard that she insisted on seeing more.

Put Buffy Quotes into Google. It means half as much without the characters to back it up, but that’s still good writing. Funny writing. The show’s kind famous for having its own twisted language – a version of teen-speak that nobody ever actually uses, but wishes they could.

At it’s funniest – episodes like Band Candy, Superstar, Triangle and Life Serial – it’s stronger than almost any comedy on regular TV. Gorgeous, simple situations, played to the hilt with sassy lines and reactions that are constantly rooted in good characterisation.

At it’s most dramatic, meanwhile – episodes like the aforementioned The Body, Innocence or The Gift – it has a gut-punch kick that Russell T. Davies (himself a full-confessed fan who’s using much of what Buffy did to inform his take on Doctor Who) wishes he could reach. Melodrama is tossed around as a negative term these days, but it’s a genre that relies on great skill, on immaculate timing, on strong performances.

And the politics, the subtext? This is every bit the intellectual equal of Dennis Potter, Jimmy McGovern or Aaron Sorkin. While the first series (and to a much lesser extent the second) made things simple at first, the show soon grew in confidence. You’ll never find a better example of “I slept with my boyfriend and then he changed” than in Buffy. You’ll never see empowerment more smartly articulated. The fantasy isn’t just fantasy, it’s an exploration of our everyday concerns writ large.

Since you mention Once More With Feeling, let’s take a look at that.

On the surface it’s a novelty episode. And certainly, it can be enjoyed on that level – it’s got a clear understanding of a particular genre, doing so much more in the writing and mise en scene than simply ‘doing a singing episode’. The songs are decent, and the lyrics are particular strong in delivering both emotional truth and, again, some really nice gags. (Two of the funniest characters, Anya and Xander, get a lovely retro-number in which to inadvertently confess the pre-wedding jitters…and selfish Anya is left concerned that their song is a book number rather than a breakaway pop hit!)

As part of the ongoing story, however, OMWF is a superb illustration of how to manage your storylines. As I said, melodrama is in the timing, and so many threads are gathered up here and given a tug that it becomes a real heart-stopper for the regular audience.

Willow’s girlfriend finds she’s had her memory wiped of an argument, to protect the addicted Willow from confronting her problems (a massive betrayal, especially when linked to Tara’s dreadful mind-messing experience the previous year). Giles realises that if he continues to remain in Buffy’s life, she’ll never stand fully on her own – forcing him to leave the people he loves. (And Whedon then realises that we have two characters who HAVE to leave the people they love, so ties their dilemma together in song.) And Buffy finally coughs to the most painful thing of all – her friends didn’t save her from hell, like they believed, rather they pulled her from heaven. An experience that renders the real world harsh, painful, ghastly. Life is no longer a gift.

All this – coming in what is, admittedly, not the strongest season of the show – is part of what made it work. With an investment in the characters, the pain was palpable. Willow and Tara’s split haunts me still.

So yes, it went for a few high-school icons at the start. It was set in a high school, how do you avoid them? It’s a cine-literate show, pop-culture-mungus, it KNOWS these are archetypes. The stuffy librarian, the nerds, the older hunk, the cheerleader – they’re way more than they appear. (Buffy cheers for all of one episode, Giles has a lot of dark corners, and Xander becomes a low-key representation of nobility far removed from his simple nerdy status.) The initial key joke of the concept is rooted here: What if a fashion-loving cheerleader had to save the world? The meaning is lost if it happened to, I dunno, a character from Dawson’s Creek.

The Breakfast Club was once described as a film about five cliches who sit around complaining that people see them as cliches. It’s also a great movie, and one that spoke to pretty much anyone who went to school. You can reconcile the two.

I’ve no idea how to persuade you of anything. “Look deeper” is clearly the obvious statement, but you’re capable of that already. That you didn’t see any comedy in it suggests a DREADFUL job in the translation, or in the vocal delivery. Certainly, there are a lot of things that thrive on odd grammar that may be getting lost.

Mostly, I think you’re in the same position as my friend – who now owns every single episode, and can’t help quoting on a regular basis. I think you were turned off by the way the show appeared to be, and by the banging on of everyone around you (see also anti-Apple people who can’t help but react when someone says they like their iPod).

I think all of that led to a lack of investment – you never settled into enjoying the characters, recognising them as representations of you and your friends, identifying with them and relating directly. And with that – certainly as you get into the later series – there’s only a surface pleasure that remains. But even then it has to be well-translated.

Put another way, the not-especially-iconic episode Lie to Me is about vampires trying to kill people. And a hero trying to stop them, while dealing with an old crush.

If you’re lucky, it’s also an episode with fun dialogue like this:

Xander (on learning that vampires like to be known as ‘the lonely ones): “We usually call them the nasty, pointy, bitey ones.”

Willow (embarrassed, on realising the full content of the song ‘I Touch Myself’): “Oh – THAT’S what that song’s about?!”

…along with nifty slayer-on-vampire action and some lovely character work (bookish, frightened virgin Willow’s reaction to having a man in her bedroom; Buffy knowingly asking Giles to ‘lie to me’).

But if you’re seeing the WHOLE show, you get a drama about an unattainable life, and a melodrama about the unfair, undiscriminating nature of disease and death. You get a discussion of betrayal and obsession, brought out through counterpointed past and present events (Angel and Dru vs Billy and Buffy). You get a satire on people’s sheep mentality, and another about the difference between fantasy and reality, expectation and discovery. You get a statement of daydream, about how we wish life were all black-and-white, heroes-and-villains, rather than this complex grey.

And THAT’S why Buffy deserves your attention, and a second chance.

Billy: “Am I interrupting?”
Xander: “Oh, only literally”

> OMG your post is longer than mine.

Hey, you asked… :-)

Series one is arguably the patchiest, in that it’s much more of anthology show than the programme would later become – mystery of the week, monster of the week, etc. But the strong humour and characterisation more than make up for it. As do the early beginnings of a Buffy strong suit – arc stories.

The opening story and episodes Angel and Prophesy Girl give the strongest sense of where it’s all going. Season two has a ‘one on, one off’ thing going on, stepping between arcs and stand-alones, and by far the most heartfelt and powerful arc and climax of the lot. And by the third season the whole thing’s running great – plus the picture improves (going from 16mm film to 35mm) and the tiny skirts have gone (a ‘keep things sexy’ network note that finally went away, it seems).

If you have some recollection of the history, I’d say season two’s Lie to Me was as good a place and any to take a dip in the Buffy pool. Or Halloween. It doesn’t hurt to aim for an ep that shows what the show can do, but isn’t bogged down in the arc stories.

Watching from the start if preferable, obviously, but I will forever regret showing a friend (the same one mentioned earlier) the pilot for Firefly. Spoilers be damned – if they don’t take to the show right away you lose them, and the spoilers are the price you pay. I should have shown her Our Mrs Reynolds.

What was the name of the episode with those strange demons called “The Gentlemen” who stole peoples’ voices? Was it “Hush”?

That was a great episode. I like Buffy, but generally don’t find it particularly scary (although when Darla changed her face the very first time, in the first episode, it was a “Yikes” moment. That’s the first time we see a vampire do that, although we soon get fairly used to it.)

It’s other stuff about the show I liked. Mainly the group (who of us ‘outsiders’ wouldn’t have liked to have hung around with a group like the Scooby gang when we were at school.), the quirky writing, that’s been mentioned, and I like the whole real world meets fantasy/horror thing. That particular episode though, the one with the gentlemen, did rather creep me out. Just seeing those guys in black suits with their ‘Punch from seaside puppet show’ faces floating down the street, with no leg movement. (Why is their lack of leg movement itself so freaky?) And those bizarre bandaged cretins capering around them… brrrrrr.

And Buffy miming a staking. Snigger.

I actually did go off of the first series for a while too, as I found it a bit repetitive. And the show as a whole still has moments I’m not sure of. Like they’re going for the darkness just for darkness sake (although it could be argued that my discomfort means it works… if that makes any sense.)

What Angel did to Miss Calandar. (I think that was her name. Gypsie teacher lady. Gyles’s love interest. Maybe I should say Angelus too, but that was more an affectation they used in his spin off series for the dark version of Angel.) He is a vicious evil character (at that point) so it worked well, but who didn’t wince at that moment. And there was no gore, just complete contempt. At the time, I thought, “crikey they’re laying it on thick”.(Well not those exact words but you get the picture.) But I have to admit… in hindsight it was the right decision. Such scenes made me uncomfortable, sometimes even disapproving (not that I’m a Mrs Whitehouse. You should see the messed up stuff in some of my comic scripts), but I still came back for more. Yes I did.

I rather fancied miss Calandar though. Shame they killed her off.

I think one of the funniest episodes was the one where Xander turns into a female magnet. I don’t have an encyclopedic memory of all the episode titles (I rarely note that sort of thing in episodes, unless I own the DVDs, and sometimes not even then) but I remember it making me laugh. Particularly the scene set to the music when he enters the school, and the girls reaction that first time… classic.

Oh, and I liked the pilot to Serenity. Have to agree “Our Mrs Reynolds” is probably one of the best episodes in the series. I also loved the second episode where ‘Mrs. Reynolds’ makes a return. Floating cities and a laser gun. “Please, I’ve got a condition”. Heh, heh.

I recently read the graphic novel set between Firefly and Serenity. Another Firefly episode really, and a fairly good one, although there were some things that could have worked better I think. It was a great read though, and fit the characters speech perfectly. And lush art.

> Hey, you asked? :-)

And I’m glad :p

I have Firefly lying around here somewhere but haven’t touched it yet. Just supposed I am going to watch Buffy later this year, I’d much like to do everything in the right order. Which would be Buffy + (Angel) + Serenity + Firefly… I think. Any other suggestions?

On the down side, the fact that their doing more comics seems it’s very unlikely they’ll any more series or a film. (Not that I particularly thought they would, but one can hope.) I’m glad Joss Whedon is wrapping up the threads left dangling from the series though.

But I?ve never been more underwhelmed by a TV Programme than Firefly (can you ever be just ?whelmed??).

I think it’s the normal state of mind. Unless you have a particularly excitable, or cynical personality. ;)

As for Firefly the show, I remember thinking, “Wouldn’t it be great if someone had done a series about Han Solo and Chewie in the time period before they went legit.”
And Whedon did. Sort of. Probably better than that actually. Chewie’s got a worse attitude a big machine gun with which he has a dubious relationship and a girly name. The princess is a courtesan but anyway. (Thats a gross simplification of course, its great on it’s own merits.)