Best Lister moment ever?

[Seb Patrick]

“Nah. I’m pretty cool. I don’t take any smeg, and even though I’m disgusting… sometimes I can be quite brave.”

The more I think about it, that moment was just… perfect. Almost the ultimate Lister character moment. The best Craig’s ever been. A beautiful little callback.

If Back to Earth was only leading up to that, it made the whole thing worthwhile.

Topic

[Turk Thrust]

I disagree…unsurprisingly. :-)

For one reason, the original scene on the bus made me cringe. Another reason would be that I think there are dozens of better scenes that Rob and Doug wrote together for the novels and Series I – VI.

[Dessie]

The whole last 5 minutes of back to earth was absolutely genius. That speech made me want to punch the air with joy, it was so well delivered. I want more of these moments from Dwarf.

[Pete Part Three]

>The whole last 5 minutes of back to earth was absolutely genius.

Oh, when we found it was all a dream AND a rip-off of Back to Reality. Yeah, genius.

[SkyAndSun]

No, when we found out Lister had found a path back to happiness and it was a sequel to the fan’s favourite episode ever.

[Anonymous]

Probably the best part of the Specials which isn’t too surprising as most of the humour (or lack of) left me cold. Well scripted and acted, especially by Craig, but Chloe did her bit well. I’m just happy that 10 years of ‘The End? The smeg it is…’ has a viable and vastly superior alternative. In my mind anyway.

Best Lister moment ever? No chance. Best bit of acting by Craig? Probably.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Loved lots of little Lister bits in the specials. Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there’s a nice bit of acting when they’re about to open the portal in episode one and he says he’s not building his hopes up…yet from his little mannerisms and nervous shuffle you can tell that it means everything to him.

[Turk Thrust]

I agree that the serious scenes were the best of the eps though and I wish there had been more (with some non-interfering humour thrown in). Can`t help feeling that that scene deserved more than to be followed by a very rushed and not very convincing wrap up and Danny singing the old song.

[Seb Patrick]

>Oh, when we found it was all a dream AND a rip-off of Back to Reality. Yeah, genius.

Sequel. Not rip-off. It’s not a rip-off if you explicitly acknowledge that it’s a sequel, especially when it was done with an entirely different angle.

[Anonymous]

>”The whole last 5 minutes of back to earth was absolutely genius.”

The Kochanski/Lister bit was fine. Back on RD and “Oh gee! All this ink made us hallucinate, fancy that!” was predictable, pants and has been done better before by the same show.

My 2p

[Pete Part Three]

>No, when we found out Lister had found a path back to happiness

This is the problem. Lister’s path to happiness had nothing to do with the meta reality and everything to do with Kryten fessing up about LYING to him.

>Sequel. Not rip-off.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

[Turk Thrust]

> It?s not a rip-off if you explicitly acknowledge that it?s a sequel

Even if that`s the case, the fact that the new angle was a rip off from Blade Runner was a rip off. You could argue that a lot of other things in the eps were rip offs from Dwarf too and one (terribly done gag) was a rip off from The Simpsons.

[Phil]

>It?s not a rip-off if you explicitly acknowledge that it?s a sequel

I direct you to Airplane II: The Sequel.

[Turk Thrust]

Saved by the Bell: The New Class?

[Jonsmad]

>This is the problem. Lister?s path to happiness had nothing to do with the meta >reality and everything to do with Kryten fessing up about LYING to him.

Kryten’s fessing up (relieving his guilt about lieing) in the hallucination and then Lister’s recovery, was what Kryten needed to feel the Joy that was brought on by the infection of the venom. so they are related.

[Tyrell Corporation]

I’m still very confused about the whole Blade Runner theme running through the episodes.

[Pete Part Three]

Well, it’s like this :

.

[Tyrell Corporation]

Ah I see.

[Seb Patrick]

Even if that`s the case, the fact that the new angle was a rip off from Blade Runner was a rip off. You could argue that a lot of other things in the eps were rip offs from Dwarf too and one (terribly done gag) was a rip off from The Simpsons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage

Oh, thanks for derailing the thread by talking about something entirely different that’s already been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, folks.

[Pete Part Three]

>They may be regarded as fannish or as an excuse for lack of originality.

Excellent! Thanks, Seb.

[Turk Thrust]

> Oh, thanks for derailing the thread by talking about something entirely different that?s already been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, folks.

Making one reference to another show could be classed as an homage. Remaking entire scenes is rather more than that.

Threads often change topic don`t they. And as the scene where Lister and Kochanski are in the car is a rip off from Blade Runner it is perfectly valid to mention it.

[Seb Patrick]

>Making one reference to another show could be classed as an homage. Remaking entire scenes is rather more than that.

If only the episode had given some kind of explanation for why they were there. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Back on track:

Best Lister moment – Lisa Yates has to be up there.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> Threads often change topic don`t they. And as the scene where Lister and Kochanski are in the car is a rip off from Blade Runner it is perfectly valid to mention it.

Hmmm….no, it’s not a “rip-off”. However much you extend a parody / homage, it’s not a rip-off unless you’re passing it off as entirely unconnected and original material.

[Turk Thrust]

> If only the episode had given some kind of explanation for why they were there. Sigh.

Why were they needed to bring joy to the characters? How often have they declared themselves mad keen Blade Runner fans who are desperate to remake scenes word for word?

[Ian Symes]

Threads often change topic don`t they.

Yeah, but within 25 minutes and in the third reply is quite annoying.

Disagree and debate by all means. But please do so in appropriate places. The argument about whether BTE is a rip-off, a homage, a sequel, or a small off-duty Czechoslovakian traffic warden is completely unrelated to Seb liking one particular bit of dialogue.

[Seb Patrick]

Why were they needed to bring joy to the characters? How often have they declared themselves mad keen Blade Runner fans who are desperate to remake scenes word for word?

Or : Doug was paying affectionate homage to an acknowledged influence on the show’s creation.

Anyway, next time you’re having a conversation about a topic that interests you, remind me to barge through your front door and start shouting in your face about something unrelated.

[Mr Flibble]

I have to agree with Pete. The ending was not only lazy (come on, we all thought “oh it’s the despair squid” after part one, hoping dearly to be proved wrong as there was no way it could be *that* lazy) but also boring. I don’t want to hear some half arsed explanation based on something that’s happened in Red Dwarf before but slightly different.

IMO, Emohawk is also a dull episode, lazily copying an earlier concept. I know it has its moments with the Kinatawowi stuff, but it’s basically just “ooh, let’s shove in Polymorph, Ace Rimmer and Dwane Dibbley and make an episode”. It’s the Dwarf equivalent of the Simpson’s clip shows.

[Tyrell Corporation]

The Ganymede and Titan staff remind me of a fan edit of The Phantom Menace.

Less Jar Jar, same amount of bollocks.

[NoFro]

If you want to bitch and moan about it being a rip-off, make a thread. It isn’t a rip-off in my opinion and the episode didn’t feel anything like Back to Reality until the last five minutes so I don’t see why people are giving so much of a shit.

And this episode was littered with brilliant bits from Lister in terms of the script and the performance given by Craig.

[Turk Thrust]

> Anyway, next time you?re having a conversation about a topic that interests you, remind me to barge through your front door and start shouting in your face about something unrelated.

I wasn`t the one who started talking about rip offs if you look. And when the debate had started about whether one chunk of a show was a rip off then it was hardly unrelated to mention something else.

Anyway to get back on topic, that dialogue has only been around for 2 days and hasn`t stood the test of time yet. Also 50% of people already don`t really seem to rate the new eps. I think it`s far too early to be able to rank it as better than any of the character`s other moments from the past 20 years.

[Mr Flibble]

Why were they needed to bring joy to the characters? How often have they declared themselves mad keen Blade Runner fans who are desperate to remake scenes word for word?

In fact, in the DVD shop when Bladerunner is mentioned, they all shrug because they’ve never heard of it.

So I’m at a loss to explain how they dreamt it all, however much it influenced the show’s creation.

[Pete Part Three]

>If you want to bitch and moan about it being a rip-off, make a thread

If you want to dance, do it over there (throws handbag).

[Phil]

WERE A REAL MICKEY MOUSE OPERATION HERE ARENTWE

[Seb Patrick]

The Ganymede and Titan staff remind me of a fan edit of The Phantom Menace.

Less Jar Jar, same amount of bollocks.

And you’re still here because…?

[ChrisM]

>This is the problem. Lister?s path to happiness had nothing to do with the meta >reality and everything to do with Kryten fessing up about LYING to him.

Kryten?s fessing up (relieving his guilt about lieing) in the hallucination and then Lister?s recovery, was what Kryten needed to feel the Joy that was brought on by the infection of the venom. so they are related.

Good point. And it was events in the meta-reality that led to Kryten ‘fessing up.’

[Plastic Percy]

My favourite bit is Listers hope for a few car chases in ‘Sense and Sensibility’.

[ChrisM]

And yes, that moment at the end was one of the best Lister moments ever.

In fact, Lister (and Craig Charles) really came into his own in BtE. In much of the series, he’s a likeable enough scuzz, but most of the character development seems to be based on Kryten and Rimmer. Lister, whilst the main character, functions mainly as the our window into that world. In a sense, he’s us.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that! But it was great to see them really do something with the character in this instalment. In the Dwarfcasts a couple of people mentioned that the specials (particularly the last two) are very much Lister’s story. That’s spot on! I’d even include the first in that, taking the grave scene into account. A lot of focus was on Rimmer, sure, but it was mainly for comic effect.

That last scene with Kochanski, and that line pretty much summed up where he is now in his emotional journey.

(Sorry, that probably came across a bit corny didn’t it?)

[Jo]

>In fact, in the DVD shop when Bladerunner is mentioned, they all shrug because they?ve never heard of it.

>So I?m at a loss to explain how they dreamt it all, however much it influenced the show?s creation.

Surely Kryten would have been aware of it even if he’d never seen it.

[Jo]

>?Nah. I?m pretty cool. I don?t take any smeg, and even though I?m disgusting? sometimes I can be quite brave.?

Also ^this FTW!

[PhilPagett]

I agree that it is one of, if not the best, Lister character moment. Although in honesty it does just make me wish that Back to Earth had been more of a character piece rather than a rather meandering Blade Runner homage/spoof.

It’s the nearest thing I think we’ll get to closure for Lister, and as such, should be relished.

I actually kind of think that Rimmer had reached his apotheosis with Stoke Me a Clipper, which when viewing the series as a whole is actually a rather neat and fitting full-stop for the character; he finally becomes somebody worthy of respect, and he achieves this through his own bravery, something which had always eluded him in the past.

Rimmer since then has been, well…just there for the sake of it really hasn’t he? In VIII he was a pantomime version of Series I Rimmer, and in Back to Earth he wasn’t really given a great deal to do other than hang a picture and affect a Northern accent. We don’t even know what Rimmer it was. If it was VIII Rimmer then fair enough, but if it was I-VII Rimmer, as seems likely from the Despair Squid back-reference, the ending of Stoke is pretty much rendered meaningless. Which would be fine had Rimmer served a real purpose in Back to Earth, but in my opinion, he didn’t.

So basically, I think Lister deserves his curtain call, and I suspect that this may be it. If it is, it’s a shame it was a few brief moments in a confusing story, but given how beautifully Craig performs them, it’ll do.

[Carlito]

> ?Nah. I?m pretty cool. I don?t take any smeg, and even though I?m disgusting? sometimes I can be quite brave.? The more I think about it, that moment was just? perfect. Almost the ultimate Lister character moment. The best Craig?s ever been. A beautiful little callback.

Seconded. Brilliant. Lister the eternal optimist, Kochanski the lost icon. I don’t care if it aped Blade Runner. It was perfect. Wouldn’t suprise me if this was the very scene that led Doug to the Blade Runner homage in the first place, knowing how great it would be. That scene, and the preceeding few minutes, gave me genuine goosebumps. I loved the fuck out of it.

[peas_and_corn]

I quite liked that “I was just sitting around getting old and fat” part better than that one. I quite liked them both- BtE is a Lister episode and as such he gets some great moments all the way through- but his rant about feeling alone all this time was just great.

[Anonymous]

>”My favourite bit is Listers hope for a few car chases in ?Sense and Sensibility?.”

Yeah, that line made me chuckle as well. It’s a pity it was somewhat ruined by him not knowing how to pronounce Austin despite visiting Jane Austin World.

[si]

My favourite line:

“YOU WASN’T EVEN THERE!!”

Creases me up.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> Yeah, that line made me chuckle as well. It?s a pity it was somewhat ruined by him not knowing how to pronounce Austin despite visiting Jane Austin World.

True, though that was just an afternoon’s escapade 12 years ago. Plus I doubt he was paying that much attention.

[Ben Paddon]

Loved lots of little Lister bits in the specials. Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there?s a nice bit of acting when they?re about to open the portal in episode one and he says he?s not building his hopes up?yet from his little mannerisms and nervous shuffle you can tell that it means everything to him.

No one has has commented on this, Zombie, but I have to agree with you. Craig’s acting has really improved over the last ten years, and it shows.

[Mnoooah]

True. One of the reasons I hope we get more is because we’re probably going to get a subtler, more interesting Lister.

[Tarka Dal]

> No one has has commented on this, Zombie, but I have to agree with you. Craig?s acting has really improved over the last ten years, and it shows.

I completely agree. Although “and without oxygen me and the Cat are gonna die” was absolutely wretched.

[Dave]

My favourite Lister moment is the “I remember when my Dad died” speech from Better Than Life.

My favourite Dave’s Mother moment is her saying “He never does that in Corrie” during the remarkably-believable-teary-eyed bit of the scene at Kochanski’s municipal graveside.

It could be argued that in the former the performance lets down the writing and that in the latter the opposite is true.

[Author]

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