Home › Forums › Ganymede & Titan Forum › Doctor Who – End of Time Broadcast Discussion Search for: This topic has 335 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 15 years ago by Ben Paddon. Scroll to bottom Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 336 total) 1 2 3 … 5 6 7 Author Posts December 25, 2009 at 7:53 pm #6106 Jonathan CappsKeymaster GO! Old thread here: http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2009/12/the-official-the-end-of-time-thread-will-contain-pre-broadcast-spoilers-speculation-and-post-broadcast-spoilers December 25, 2009 at 8:02 pm #107268 DessieParticipant Ok does anyone mind if i repost my last post in the other thread? I thought the pacing was a bit off. I understand it was setting up the finale but i was sat wishing something more would happen. I?m not a huge fan of everyone being turned into the master either, it?s just a strange idea. Simm was fantastic though and the teaser for the next episode really has me excited. I just expected more bang from this episode. Also how many times will Simm have to of changed his clothes when making that episode? Also does anyone think we could see a forced regeneration by the timelords? December 25, 2009 at 8:27 pm #107269 Nick RParticipant A very weird episode. Started off all portentious and epic and doom-laden with all the nightmares/resurrection-science-spell/final-showdown-in-a-shipyard/wistful-talk-in-the-cafe scenes, and then settled down enough for a little bit of comedy (“Welcome aboard!”; “Cactus!”), threw in a nod to Saint Obama, and finished with a double-whammy of a cliffhanger that was utterly amazing in a WTF batshit insane sort of way. Great fun! December 25, 2009 at 8:34 pm #107270 AndrewParticipant It does feel like a set-up to ‘In order that the Master’s process be reversed, Doctor, you have to give up your life’. Only less direct. But every time I second-guess RTD, I’m proved wrong. That’s the value of his brilliant, erratic energy. The flaws are the price you pay for the joyous unpredictability. All good fun stuff today. Set-up more than drama – that perfectly-performed cafe scene aside – and the super-powered Master was terrfying. A planet of Masters is, oddly, less chilling, and I fear for the quick-fix, reset-button solution that must be coming. But it’s an impressive show that can induce so many ‘eep!’ responses in an hour, and whose pace never flags. (Another ten minutes to breathe would have been absolutely welcome, in fact.) December 25, 2009 at 8:46 pm #107271 NitroChrisUKParticipant daft question now actually i have answered it by asking it .. i was going to say are all the masters just humans in the masters likeness or are they all time lord masters but considering at this point the human race does not exist then that pretty much answers itself. remind you of agent smith in the matrix much? Thought it was a great episode. as others have said more of a build up to next week but still very good. I think we may get a nice story telling of what happend in the time war, how the doctor killed all the time lords and will have to be punished.(again) but maybe that is what they want us to think. should be fun finding out. December 25, 2009 at 9:09 pm #107272 Tarka DalParticipant Distinctly underwhelmed by that to be honest. Seemed more than a little clunky. December 25, 2009 at 9:14 pm #107274 Seb PatrickKeymaster I couldn’t really give that much of a toss about the preceding 59 minutes or so (in general, though: very good moments, a little flawed as a whole). It was all about the Time Lords, for me. I’ve been waiting four years for this. I know there are those who disagree, but I honestly think it’s time – I want Gallifrey and the Panopticon and the Prydonian Chapter and the Seal of Rassilon and Omega (WHO IS CLEARLY TIMOTHY DALTON BY THE WAY) and all the rest of it. Also, they’ve put the first couple of minutes of part two on the BBC site. I watched about twenty seconds, done a massive JAW DROP, then decided I didn’t want to ruin next week’s “watching it entirely fresh” experience any more. December 25, 2009 at 9:18 pm #107275 Tarka DalParticipant This too. December 25, 2009 at 9:19 pm #107276 hummingbirdParticipant There seemed to be a deliberately odd feel to this episode. Not that that’s a bad thing; it feels like we’re being set up for a great finale. Very exciting. I love that I haven’t the faintest clue where this is all going now. December 25, 2009 at 9:39 pm #107277 JamesTCParticipant The first 30 minutes couldn’t have been more dissapointing. Open with clips of ‘Last of the Time Lords’ and remind me how much I hated the previous story. The Master’s return was shite, it was magic, it wasn’t sci-fi in anyway, they fucking used the word potions. The Master being a crazy fucked up monster was also quite naff, him jumping up really high and shooting laser bolts was just stupid. I don’t find horny granny jokes funny. After the soldiers took the Master the episode picked up. At all this time I kept expecting the gate to activate and return Gallifrey but it didn’t, it just fucked up all the humans and you’d think because I hate this incarnation of the Master so much that I’d hate the end but you know what? I thought it was fucking funny and I put it all down to Simm, him as Obama was just fantastic, giving himself cheers and thumbs up, loved it. Then the Time Lords returned and a shite To Be Continued appeared and a weird next time trailer. On the whole it is alot better than my expectations. The Master stuff in the first half of the episode is the stuff I didn’t like but it didn’t detract from the second half of the episode and the cliff-hanger was so barmy and out there that I just had to love it. Of course we shall see if I can keep on being positive when there is a planet of Simm Masters. December 25, 2009 at 9:48 pm #107278 Jonathan CappsKeymaster I honestly believe that anyone who doesn’t think Simm’s Master is brilliant is fundamentally broken in some way. Out of interest, Seb, why do you think James Bond is Omega? I’d much prefer him to be someone new, rather than needlessly attach him to another Time Lord. Especially since I think next week’s is going to be fan service heavy as it is… December 25, 2009 at 9:51 pm #107279 AndrewParticipant Soundableobject’s just upset that the Master isn’t a robot… :) December 25, 2009 at 9:59 pm #107280 Jonathan CappsKeymaster > Soundableobject?s just upset that the Master isn?t a robot? :) And that he’s always wrong about stuff. December 25, 2009 at 10:01 pm #107281 JamesTCParticipant >Soundableobject?s just upset that the Master isn?t a robot? :) A cyborg actually. Really there was no reason to have that shite x-ray effect, we get it, he has gone a bit messed up, I would have thought his magic powers and super speed would be indication enough. December 25, 2009 at 10:15 pm #107283 AndrewParticipant Liked that effect. Liked it in the promos. Liked it in the show. It sells his oncoming collapse, the faulty resurrection, in a way new powers doesn’t. Super-Master scares the crap out of me. Mostly, I suspect, because it ‘weaponises’ him – making for an ever stronger contrast to the Doctor…and making the odds against the Doctor that much greater. December 25, 2009 at 10:24 pm #107284 JamesTCParticipant >I suspect, because it ?weaponises? him – making for an ever stronger contrast to the Doctor?and making the odds against the Doctor that much greater. I think the Master is always weaponised in a way, certainly he always has the advantage over the Doctor in that he will go to violence quicker than the Doctor. The first scene where I really thought that the Simm Master was working pretty good in this episode was after that laser bolt when the Doctor and the Master were talking, he really worked so well in that scene, it was so engrosing, I was fixed to the screen, then he did his super-power act and jumped away and I was taken out, luckily I was pulled right back in when the helicopters arrived and the Doctor was being shot at, I actually thought he had been shot at the end of the scene. December 25, 2009 at 10:39 pm #107289 JamesTCParticipant >For example, I?m not entirely sure why the Master has all these superpowers. I know his regeneration was messed with but if anything I?d think he would be weaker. Okay, I suppose he is in a sense with all the requirement to eat, but he?s got some major compensations there. Tennant said something along the lines of “burning yourself out” so I guess he is using all his remaining energy to fuel the super-powers. >I?m particularly curious about the stuff concerning Wilfred and his secret messages and the coincidences surrounding him. I?m starting to wonder if he?s got a fob watch hiding away somewhere?. Wouldn’t that make his daughter, Sylvia, half Time Lord and stop her from turning into Simm? December 25, 2009 at 10:41 pm #107285 ChrisMParticipant >There seemed to be a deliberately odd feel to this episode I agree. The start felt rather disjointed, no doubt due to setting up all those story threads. >The first 30 minutes couldn?t have been more dissapointing. I really didn’t like the way the brought back the Master either. No doubt it was because they wanted to set him up quickly and move the story on but I think it could have been done better. I wasn’t too keen on the coincidence of the Master’s resurrection coinciding with this alien replicating technology… although I liked the idea of the device itself, and it’s misuse. I think the machine should have been integral to his plan from the start rather than being in the right place and the right time (from his point of view. Wrong place, wrong time for everyone else obviously). It could have been created according to blueprints left behind possibly with some alien tech to his disciples for example (he had the Tardis at one point after all and could have gone to other places before his run for Prime Minister)It could have been the thing that regenerated him in the first place rather than all that potion malarkey. It would have required him being separated at some point, the machine being sabotaged, etc, by Mrs Saxon or another operative but I think it could have worked. i was going to say are all the masters just humans in the masters likeness or are they all time lord masters but considering at this point the human race does not exist then that pretty much answers itself. Yes. The way I understand it, the alien device regenerates a planet’s population by copying a template. The Master being the template means that now the entire population are effectively exact duplicates of the Master and therefore all of the Timelord species. I doubt it was originally meant to copy so abolutely, but The Master has probably altered it’s programming somewhat. Despite the stuff I mentioned above I found the episode intriguing and hope to catch it again On Demand to mull over bits I might have missed. (For example, I’m not entirely sure why the Master has all these superpowers. I know his regeneration was messed with but if anything I’d think he would be weaker. Okay, I suppose he is in a sense with all the requirement to eat, but he’s got some major compensations there.) I’m particularly curious about the stuff concerning Wilfred and his secret messages and the coincidences surrounding him. I’m starting to wonder if he’s got a fob watch hiding away somewhere…. December 25, 2009 at 10:46 pm #107291 ChrisMParticipant Wouldn?t that make his daughter, Sylvia, half Time Lord and stop her from turning into Simm? No. When Time Lords use the fob watch they become entirely human. Therefore his offspring would be entirely human too. Tennant said something along the lines of ?burning yourself out? so I guess he is using all his remaining energy to fuel the super-powers I did think of that, and no doubt that’s the explanation, but I don’t like it. December 25, 2009 at 10:46 pm #107292 DessieParticipant http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S0_09 Dunno if it’s been posted but there’s a clip from the next episode on there. Timothy Dalton looks like he’ll be great in this. December 25, 2009 at 11:30 pm #107295 RidleyParticipant I wonder when someone will edit The Devil’s Gallop over Ginger and the other tramp running away. Underwhelmed by the episode (aswell). It was all over the place. The threat of The Master’s Force powers was spoiled by the blatent fakery of it all. As was the actual population’s ‘spinning’ (“that’s a good trick!”) heads but the pay off with a Master race should be worth it for part two. And my pet peeves: the episode identifying itself as part one and inserting a real-world politician into a universe that established previous officials were fictional. December 25, 2009 at 11:33 pm #107296 John HoareParticipant and inserting a real-world politician into a universe that established previous officials were fictional. This struck me as a bit jarring, too… December 25, 2009 at 11:44 pm #107297 RidleyParticipant My wording of that is bad but I think you know what I mean. ;) December 26, 2009 at 12:05 am #107299 Seb PatrickKeymaster > inserting a real-world politician into a universe that established previous officials were fictional. Eccleston was at the Kennedy assassination. And I can’t remember for sure, but I think either the US president or Churchill will have been mentioned in Empty Child. Hitler certainly was. Oh, and Ann Widdicombe’s been in it, of course. Sure, it’s played with fake present-day politicians when it’s needed to. But that’s largely because it’s had to kill them off – and he couldn’t have done that with Blair or Bush. Would it have worked if Penelope Wilton had been playing Margaret Beckett? However, in this instance, I think it was acceptable to use Obama because what he represents to many people is wha the story called for the President to be doing. Also, the image of him becoming the Master was all the more effective for being a real-life figure. Anyway, Marvel Comics usually have fictional politicians (J. Jonah Jameson is currently mayor of New York), but Obama shows up almost once a month (he’s in this week’s Captain America Reborn one-shot). If it’s good enough for them… December 26, 2009 at 12:25 am #107301 AndrewParticipant Great use of an Obama double, too. Dunno how I felt about it. There’s something legitimate about the iconography of Obama – his cultural worth is what makes the difference, I think, to an RTD use. The name has weight, like Churchill, like Kennedy, but unlike, say, Calvin Coolidge. On the other hand, it felt like the show was being naive – ascribing a genuine president the solution to a genuine global problem. It was played a little hard. And I’m the guy that LOVES the Doctor picking up the Olympic torch… So Obama took over the presidency from Tony From The 10%ers, I guess? December 26, 2009 at 12:37 am #107302 RidleyParticipant Also, the image of him becoming the Master was all the more effective for being a real-life figure. Could have been done without mentioning his name. If it?s good enough for them? I don’t like it when the 616 universe does it either. December 26, 2009 at 12:45 am #107303 AndrewParticipant > Could have been done without mentioning his name. Even though I’m uncertain about the use, I don’t think doing it visually but avoiding the name has any value. For a joke, sure, but as a plot point, a cause of trouble – saying ‘the president’ and showing an Obama lookalike is no different from saying the name. December 26, 2009 at 1:43 am #107305 GwynnieParticipant All I could think was how bad the “Master race” pun was (if it can be called a pun??), and how much fun John Simm must have had filming. But what exactly does he plan to do now that he’s copied almost the entire planet into himself? Will they all just walk around laughing, or will they move on to the rest of the universe? Well, whatever flaws it may have had, I still can’t wait for part 2… December 26, 2009 at 2:04 am #107307 JamesTCParticipant >But what exactly does he plan to do now that he?s copied almost the entire planet into himself? Will they all just walk around laughing, or will they move on to the rest of the universe? Well it was a spur of the moment thing, the Master only found out about the gate late on so I doubt he has a plan, probably just make it up as he goes along. December 26, 2009 at 5:03 am #107309 ChrisMParticipant I was thinking, considering how insane he is it’s unlikely his various ‘selves’ would remain united for long and would end up fighting amongst themselves. I’m of course thinking in terms of a realistic scenario (well, apart from the DNA altering of the population of Earth thing) and I’m not convinced they’d take the story down that route. December 26, 2009 at 6:29 am #107310 PongoParticipant What poo. RTD, Tennant, and Simm aren’t my favorite writer, Doctor, or Master, but they’re all capable of better than that. Still, better than last year’s finale. December 26, 2009 at 10:49 am #107313 Tarka DalParticipant > And I?m the guy that LOVES the Doctor picking up the Olympic torch? O RLY? December 26, 2009 at 11:01 am #107314 ori-STUDFARMParticipant > But what exactly does he plan to do now that he?s copied almost the entire planet into himself? Will they all just walk around laughing, or will they move on to the rest of the universe? I think they’ll start a new empire, kinda like the Roman empire and rule the planet. They’ll arrest and lock up the original Master giving him only chinese worry balls to entertain him for the centuries of imprisonment that he now faces. Did anyone else notice the Torchwood 4×4 in this episode? I’ve been shown a screenshot which might be….but I’m not so sure! http://twitpic.com/vak8z December 26, 2009 at 11:21 am #107315 TheLeenParticipant Oh my God, that was BRILLIANT. December 26, 2009 at 11:31 am #107316 Pete Part ThreeParticipant I liked it. It was incredibly slow though. I didn’t like the ressurection and found it all a bit clunky (particularly The Master being given special powers which didn’t serve the plot AT ALL), but the promise of Tennant biting the big one at the end of part 2 makes it all slightly more gripping than it could have been. I’d appreciate a decent reason as to why Wilf is the only member of the human race you can remember the bad dreams, though. You know, beyond RTD’s usual sort of pre-determinism malarky. And one thing that doesnt make sense. The Ood told The Doctor that he should have come straight away. The Doctor travels in a time-machine so why didn’t he just set the co-ordinates for twenty seconds after Ood Sigma appeared to him? By law, Tim Dalton should be in every TV show and film but I don’t think we need the Time Lords back. I wonder if RTD disussed this with Moff. December 26, 2009 at 12:03 pm #107317 hummingbirdParticipant > I didn?t like the ressurection and found it all a bit clunky Not so much clunky as a little too Harry Potter. Possibly my only major criticism. December 26, 2009 at 12:14 pm #107319 Nick RParticipant The Master?s return was shite, it was magic, it wasn?t sci-fi in anyway, they fucking used the word potions. I quite liked that – presenting it as a mystical fantasy ritual, and then throwing in the “biometric signature” phrase at the end. Lawrence Miles’ review – I mean, blog post, written before he watched it – is up, and is typically upbeat. The chase over the waste ground near the start was far too long, but I thought the Master’s jumping effect was pretty good. More convincing than Morpheus’ leap in The Matrix ten years ago. The fact that RTD is shaking things up a lot (or applying a reset button?) before Moffat takes over reminds me of Brian Bendis ending his Daredevil run by putting Matt Murdock in jail before handing over to Ed Brubaker. Seb could probably think of dozens of other examples from comics… Someone posted this over at Rllmukforum: http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u101/gbfc/Shodai/TheMasterYEAAAHHH.jpg December 26, 2009 at 12:23 pm #107321 AndrewParticipant > I quite liked that – presenting it as a mystical fantasy ritual, and then throwing in the ?biometric signature? phrase at the end. Yeah, that’s where I am on it. The show has vampires and werewolves – everything mystical turns out scentific. At this point, and for these purposes, I can live without the drawling exposition explaning WHY his return is actually chemical and biological rather than magical; I just assume it. If it had been A Big Machine that brought him back, the result would have been the same – it’d just be a bit d?j? vu shen the resurrection gate was revealed. December 26, 2009 at 1:09 pm #107324 Ian SymesKeymaster I was thinking, considering how insane he is it?s unlikely his various ?selves? would remain united for long and would end up fighting amongst themselves. Doctor, there’s no point in concealing it anymore. The Master and me… we’ve had a bit of a tiff. December 26, 2009 at 1:19 pm #107325 Nick RParticipant December 26, 2009 at 1:56 pm #107326 CarlitoParticipant Just watched it. Marking the first full episode of Doctor Who I’ve actually seen. Enjoyed it. A world full of John Simms was preposterous but fun nonetheless. Will be checking out part 2. December 26, 2009 at 2:23 pm #107328 AndrewParticipant > > And I?m the guy that LOVES the Doctor picking up the Olympic torch? > O RLY? YS RLY. December 26, 2009 at 4:17 pm #107331 AndrewParticipant > Lawrence Miles Doctor Who bollocks aside, he also doesn’t understand that the new Sherlock Holmes IS reasonable true to the books. http://chud.com/articles/articles/21965/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-THE-HOLMES-HATERS/Page1.html December 26, 2009 at 5:16 pm #107335 ChrisMParticipant >it?d just be a bit d?j? vu shen the resurrection gate was revealed. Or they could have used it to bring him back in the first place as I said above. That would involve the Master’s plot thread going around in a circle, i.e. separated from the gate then going back to it and doing his multiplication doohickey. If they kept with the idea of Mrs. Saxon’s people’s sabotage that would work and keep things more technological and also do away with the coincidence of the Master’s return coinciding with the discovery of the gate. December 26, 2009 at 6:32 pm #107340 pfmParticipant Tennant, Simm, Cribbins, Dalton, all brilliant. The Master’s resurrection, questionable nonsense that may hopefully make more sense next week if it’s revealed that, say, the Time Lords have ‘programmed’ him in some way or they’ve been in his head all along and have set all these events in motion. The human race replaced with Time Lords. The Narrator, whoever he is, probably related to the Master or Doctor (or both…) in a paternal-type way, someone far worse than The Master at least, who comes across as an angry child (which is a good thing, Simm doing a great job again) Personally I think RTD actually struggled to fill this hour, considering how packed his final story really should be. There’s no way it was suitable for 6pm Christmas Day either like, say, The Next Doctor was (as naff as that was). Frig knows what everyone sat down watching it thought. Those who never watched Last of the Time Lords or know nothing about the Time Lords at all would have big question marks above their heads and I doubt they were that entertained by the insanity. The clip for Part Two is suitably Star Wars-esque. Or maybe Flash Gordon, considering who’s in it! And this is before the end of the Time War! Pretty spoilerish clip really. They KNEW the Doctor was going to end it all. And the smashed up ships outside…some of the biggest shots ever by The Mill. Bring it on, even if it’s a complete mess!! December 26, 2009 at 7:34 pm #107342 JamesTCParticipant It got 10 million viewers, frankly I don’t think that is all that good compared woth ‘The Next Doctor’ which pulled in well over 11 million. This episode should have pulled in mroe considering what it is, the last of the Tenth Doctors adventures. I don’t expect next weeks to do all that better, it is up against ITV’s flagship show, Coronation Street, just like 20 years ago. December 26, 2009 at 7:56 pm #107343 AndrewParticipant > It got 10 million viewers, frankly I don?t think that is all that good compared woth ?The Next Doctor? OMG ITS A HUGE FAILURE!!!! Or, it’s in the top three New Who ep ratings ever, based purely on overnights – the PVR stats are going to have bigger sway than any previous year. Plus how can you expect masses more viewers for a continuity-heavy episode than a big novelty show? Tennant’s end only means something to those who already watched the show. Say, on previous big eps like The Next Doctor. The conclusion’s hardly MADE for newcomers, is it? Top three, with no home recordings factored in, is nobody’s idea of a failure. December 26, 2009 at 8:35 pm #107345 Ben PaddonParticipant I loved it. It had its flaws (Lucy Saxon’s anti-Resurrection Potion potion seemed a bit silly) but I loved everything else. And I don’t know about you, but the idea of everybody – everyone on the planet – being transformed into a copy of the same person absolutely terrifies me, regardless of whether that person is good or not. Thinking about it actually kept me awake at night. John Simm’s Master has been a triumph from day one, and this story is no exception. December 26, 2009 at 8:40 pm #107346 JamesTCParticipant I’m not saying they are bad ratings, they just arn’t that good (or atleast what what I thought it would get). It is a top watched show (3rd or 4th wasn’t it?) but it still was trounced by the less publicised and advertised and hyped show last year. December 26, 2009 at 8:41 pm #107348 Seb PatrickKeymaster Re: Ratings, remember these are just overnights. Who has never had more than about 12m in FINAL ratings. So 10m in overnights is pretty impressive. Must admit, though, that with all the publicity I expected it to win the day, but apparently people would rather be depressed by Eastenders. But yeah, it’s not exactly what you’d call a disaster. Author Posts Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 336 total) 1 2 3 … 5 6 7 Scroll to top • Scroll to Recent Forum Posts You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Log In Username: Password: Keep me signed in Log In