Doctor Who – End of Time Broadcast Discussion

[Tarka Dal]

Right stop that.

That was absolutely fantastic. A bit fanwanky, a little self-indulgent, but 100% RTD Who – everything I was hoping for.

[Carlito]

I pretty much enjoyed it, understood why they had all the callbacks at the end although I didn’t get any of it having not been a regular viewer in the past… gotta say, as kneejerk and based on very little as it may seem, took an instant dislike to the new Doctor. For everything that kinda hooked me in to this two parter in the first place, that scene turned me off again.

[JamesTC]

They have a trailer on the website for the next series.

[Beligium]

Not too bad, not sure the Timelords storyline was particularly well thought out or paced, but had a few nice moments, and a fan-wanky, mawkish, yet nice goodbye at the end.

Time to see what happens next…

[Tarka Dal]

You’re not meant to like the new Doctor. If you do then it’s a massive failing on the part of the old one. Give the new guy a few stories and he’ll be THE Doctor.

[redhead85]

Erm…I may have missed a point somewhere but how come Tom Baker’s Doctor died after falling from an electricity pylon but David Tennant’s Doctor can fall FROM A BURNING SPACESHIP CRASHING THROUGH A ROOF AND FALL TO A MARBLE FLOOR and that doesn’t kill him? Well ‘ard.

I did enjoy it, I didn’t blub once and yes, I think the obsession to tie up loose ends that weren’t really loose was a little self-indulgent but did make me smile.

But his last words brought a lump to my throat. And when Wilf knocked four times on the glass I got chills.

All in all, a fab finale methinks…

[Pete Part Three]

>A bit fanwanky, a little self-indulgent

The decade is but 20 hours old, but that gets the award for the understatement of the decade. I was prepared for self-indulgence but the last 30 minutes was just that; no story whatsoever. And that’s the most frustrating thing; the actual plot was screaming out for some breathing space. Result: The Time Lords returned and buggered off in the space of 5 minutes.

[John Hoare]

The face-off between the Time Lords and the Master didn’t work, and I never bought the booth thing as anything other but a convenient tech reason for him to have to regenerate – which meant that what should have been moving (sacrificing yourself for ONE person, rather than many) just didn’t work for me.

Really wanted to love it. Liked some bits. But overall, I’m disappointed. A shame. Thought the first episode was far better, annoyingly.

[steven87gill]

Andrew>(I don?t expect the Time Lords to be dumped again. Now they?re back, they?re back – leaving the Whoniverse as RTD found it.)

Well, beutiful episode, i was a mess at the end, but as it happens i was right about the timelords. I genuinley hoped i was wrong and they would be back permanenley.

[Muzzy]

Beautiful. Really enjoyed it. The end did go on a bit yes but I’m willing to forgive it as it was a nice wrap up for everything that RTD previously gave us. Bit disappointed about the Time Lords getting sent back and ultimately not really doing a lot but hey ho. The Master saving The Doctor completely made up for that anyway in my opinion. That simple little moment made me very happy. Wilf knocking afterwards was chilling though. And, of course, no explanation about what happened to The Master! How conveniant :P

Matt came across as promising. Seemed very reminiscent of when David took over really. I don’t think you can judge him properly from that minute at the end anyway, especially considering the massive shift in atmosphere from what we’d just been watching. Would have liked a new regeneration effect though!! And on that note why didn’t the exact same regeneration process crash the TARDIS last time round if it did here? Oh well. Nitpicking. Loved it.

[Nick R]

“There’s a phrase of great power that brings consolation to the soul in times of great need…
HAKUNA MATATA
… No, sorry, that’s The Lion King.”

That’s what he should have said.

Anyway, I enjoyed that. Although it kinda diluted the tragedy of his death that rather than regenerating in front of Wilfred alone, he had time to go round saying goodbye to all of RTD’s supporting characters. The equivalent of Trinity surviving for just long enough to give Neo a complete farewell speech before she pops her clogs.

[genericnerdyusername]

Disappointed, but satisfied at the same time.

Anyway I’m off to the pub so I don’t have to explain myself :).

[JamesTC]

So wait, who exactly was the woman Time Lord and how did she contact Wilf if the only way any other Time Lord could was through drumming in the past.
And if the Time War was locked and the only thing that could get through was the signal from the past then how could Rassilon throw that star thing at earth.
And why the fuck mention Rassilon, that is just wanking all over the page for the sake of it and then you give no explanation.
Then there was the Donna cop-out.
Then there was the Jesus pose yet again which destroyed the TARDIS despite the fact that 3 years ago Nine was in the exact same position and it had no effect on the TARDIS, 2 years ago the Master was in the same position and it had no effect on the TARDIS, 1 year ago for the aborted regeneration, no effect on the TARDIS.

Atleast the trailer on the website is good.

[Tarka Dal]

Okay what’s odd for me is I normally would agree with a lot of the negative chatter above. Comments about Time Lords, fanwankery, pacing and so forth. However this is RTD Who. We’ve had four and a bit seasons of getting to know how he writes the show; how he paces it, what he prioritises, what he leaves flapping in the ether.

So I was anticipating and prepared to accept all the trappings of RTD that I’m not so fond of – so long as the pay-off and the good bits represented RTD Who zinging at it’s best.

[Dessie]

It was alright. The bit where the Master saved him was brilliant and Wilf knocking on the glass was heartbreaking. I’d have left him in there though. lets face it he’s getting on. The doctor visiting everyone was a bit pointless, i’d have prefered him to regenerate instantly. I thought the Rose scene was a bit stupid i’d have prefered her to be there knowing who he is and being devestated at him dying.

The new Doctor seemed ok… a bit exciteable and i can see him getting very annoying if he’s like that all the way through. Thinking he was female was just weird to be honest but i liked the line about still not being ginger.

[Tarka Dal]

> Then there was the Jesus pose yet again which destroyed the TARDIS despite the fact that 3 years ago Nine was in the exact same position and it had no effect on the TARDIS, 2 years ago the Master was in the same position and it had no effect on the TARDIS, 1 year ago for the aborted regeneration, no effect on the TARDIS.

It’s almost like they were trying to imply that Tennant was a bit special.

[redhead85]

> It?s almost like they were trying to imply that Tennant was a bit special.

EPIC EMO REGENERATION!!!

[Kris Carter]

The more I think about it, the more I didn’t like that. Surely the Doctor’s had the best ‘companion send off’ already in Journey’s End… why the need to faff about with the ending for fifteen minutes, going around the old companians, again? Robs the regeneration of any urgency…. Oh well. At least the Master got a powerful, meaningful send-off (I’m not going to say death cos come on… who thinks he’s dead? Really?), and Matt Smith looks very promising, and the new series trailer looks great!

[ori-STUDFARM]

That was……okay…..nothing more.

I’d have expected it to have been a little emotional at the end, but no! Dry eyes here! I’ve shead tears in the past, but not here. Overall opinion …..Underwhelming!!

[Tarka Dal]

Speaking of which, when he mistook himself to be female I momentarily thought he’d said “I’M A GOTH!!”

[Nick R]

Didn’t Seb say in the nearly time:) thread that we’d have a separate thread for part 2? ;)

The new Doctor seemed ok? a bit exciteable and i can see him getting very annoying if he?s like that all the way through.

He did seem to whoop a lot in that short scene. He was alone, though, and the secene wasn’t really long enough to judge properly.

Speaking of which, when he mistook himself to be female I momentarily thought he?d said ?I?M A GOTH!!?

Haha, so did I!

Also, the “Cactuses!” – “That’s cacti!” – “That’s racist!” bit was funny.

[Rad]

Yay! Trailer!

At the end of Doctor Who Confidential.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Yay! Blink Angel thingy’s!!

[JamesTC]

Wait, what the fuck was special about Wilf then? Why didn’t he change? He was human and I don’t remember any indication or explanation as to why he is different and not changed by the Master.
Did I miss the explanation?

[Pete Part Three]

>Surely the Doctor?s had the best ?companion send off? already in Journey?s End? why the need to faff about with the ending for fifteen minutes

This. And Journey’s End was fanwanky but it was just a more concise episode. He should have had a much more understated death scene with Wilf. It robbed it of any sentimentality by dragging it out for the entire third act.

>So wait, who exactly was the woman Time Lord

I assume we’re supposed to believe it was his mother. But I also assume that we’ll never find out.

>and how did she contact Wilf if the only way any other Time Lord could was through drumming in the past

I’d consider thinking of a solution, but since RTD obviously didn’t give it a second thought, I don’t see the point. Ditto for why, when The Doctor had a gun pointed at The Master, ready to “break the link”, Rassilion didn’t think of using his mighty Power Glove.

[Tarka Dal]

The Doctor placed him in the booth and then blocked out The Master’s trickery using the chambers controls.

[Muzzy]

He was in the booth thing when everyone got changed.

[Pete Part Three]

>Wait, what the fuck was special about Wilf then? Why didn?t he change? He was human and I don?t remember any indication or explanation as to why he is different and not changed by the Master.

He got in the Radiation seal and The Doctor changed the frequency. Or something. Reversed the polarity, maybe.

I guess the important thing about Wilf was that he was the person who knocked four times.

[steven87gill]

Muz> And on that note why didn?t the exact same regeneration process crash the TARDIS last time round if it did here? Oh well. Nitpicking. Loved it.

Possibly doc 10 was doing all he could to hold of the regeneration even as it was happening (i don’t want to go!) making it paticularly violent.

[Muzzy]

>Possibly doc 10 was doing all he could to hold of the regeneration even as it was happening (i don?t want to go!) making it paticularly violent

Hahaha. I like that theory :D

[steven87gill]

>Rad Yay! Trailer!

At the end of Doctor Who Confidential.

What? Been watching it on HD, there was no trailer there? Nice one Beeb.

[Pete Part Three]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/newyear/

[JamesTC]

>The Doctor placed him in the booth and then blocked out The Master?s trickery using the chambers controls.

Then why did he remember the bad dreams but nobody else did?

[steven87gill]

>Pete Part Three http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/newyear/

haha, good man!!

Looking good, looking bloody good infact.

[Tarka Dal]

> Then why did he remember the bad dreams but nobody else did?

Wilf mentioned the dreams on the mini-bus, it appeared everyone had been having them, but been subconciously blotting them out save thinking about them. Presumably from his experiences with the Doctor Wilf was wiser to these things and therefore it wasn’t as easy for his subconcious to ignore them.

[Pete Part Three]

Mickey and (especially) Martha not similarly affected? It makes fuck all sense.

[Muzzy]

Who said they weren’t affected?

[Tarka Dal]

> Mickey and (especially) Martha not similarly affected? It makes fuck all sense.

How can you be sure they weren’t? In the Mickey and Martha scene they were fighting Sontarans. It’s impossible to tell when in time, or where in the universe that sequence was taking place.

[Andrew]

Micky and Martha’s adventure could have been before or – since everyone was cured – after the events of the story by a number of years.

[Tarka Dal]

Curious. It’s as though we’re experiencing relative time dilation in an amazingly compressed space.

[Pete Part Three]

>Who said they weren?t affected?

The opening narration to Part One. They said that Wilf was the only human who could remember the bad dreams. So Martha and Mickey were as oblivious as everyone else.

[Tarka Dal]

> So Martha and Mickey were as oblivious as everyone else.

If they were on earth at the time, and even if they were as Andrew said above ‘everyone was cured’ so it doesn’t make any difference, as the scene featuring them had nothing to do with the ‘Master Race’ plotline.

[JamesTC]

>If they were on earth at the time, and even if they were as Andrew said above ?everyone was cured? so it doesn?t make any difference, as the scene featuring them had nothing to do with the ?Master Race? plotline.

The point I am trying to make is why is Wilf special, no explanation was given as to why he was the only one on the earth not to forget the bad dreams.

[Tarka Dal]

> The point I am trying to make is why is Wilf special, no explanation was given as to why he was the only one on the earth not to forget the bad dreams.

Okay, but where’s the golden rule that *everything* has to be tied up and given a blatant reference? It wasn’t disclosed who the timelord (or should that be timelady?) was who visited Wilf. We’re Red Dwarf fans, a show that raises no end of questions. We’ve imagination to fill in the blanks, that’s the fun of it.

[hummingbird]

A little too much fanwank (they could have cut most of the last 20 minutes and the show would have been better for it), and so many references that seem to have just been thrown in for the hell of it.
In the end, I was too busy wishing he would just get on with it to find his demise particularly moving.
But, that said, I still enjoyed it :-)

For me the star of the show was Cribbins, and the Cribbins/Ten scenes on the Cactus ship were genuinely moving.
I think I may have had something in my eye at that point *sniff*

I was almost hoping that Wilf would stay on as companion for the next few eps. He would have been fantastic.

[Pete Part Three]

>If they were on earth at the time, and even if they were as Andrew said above ?everyone was cured? so it doesn?t make any difference, as the scene featuring them had nothing to do with the ?Master Race? plotline.

We’re not talking about being “cured” or “changed”, we’re pondering why Wilf is the only one who could remember the bad dreams.

[JamesTC]

>Okay, but where?s the golden rule that *everything* has to be tied up and given a blatant reference?

I think it is just a general rule of drama.

Atleast when Red Dwarf leaves questions it also entertains you, ‘The End of Time (5 minutes)’ part 2 did not entertain but it left too many questions, alot more than Red Dwarf has.

[JamesTC]

I don’t see why I am calling them questions, plot holes.

[Tarka Dal]

> We?re not talking about being ?cured? or ?changed?, we?re pondering why Wilf is the only one who could remember the bad dreams.

So why did you bring Martha and Mickey into when you’ve absolute no way of telling whether they were on Earth during ‘The End of Time’ or not?

> I think it just a general rule of drama.

Who decides? It’s the auteurs choice how much they tie-up and how much they leave for the viewer to figure out for themselves. Just because you weren’t spoonfed an explanation doesn’t me one doesn’t exist.

[Tarka Dal]

> I don?t see why I am calling them questions, plot holes.

Who are you calling Plot holes?

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