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  • #1662

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I’m surprised that this hasn’t already been mentioned but what did everybody think of Dr Who yesterday. Liked the introduction to Martha, wasn’t sure about the old woman using a straw to suck out the blood. I’ve got a feeling the Rhino things will come back at some point.

    #123273

    Anonymous

    What I’m surprised at is the fact that nobody has mentioned that the Doctor appeared to say ‘smeg’ at one point during the episode.

    #123274

    Anonymous

    I liked this, although I was rather frustrated that they seem to have left things open for a romantic relationship to blossom. If the Doctor and his companion revert to all the “wooohooo this is such a blast!” trappings of the Rose era, it’ll be really annoying.

    But I thought this was a strong episode. A better introduction to a companion than the episode “Rose”, and not setting up Martha’s life on earth so much that they might need to keep taking us back to see how her family are missing her etc. Again: this is a great opportunity to dispense with the baggage from the Rose era, and I’ll be disappointed if they start laying the same pitfalls again with Martha. The episode started with her though, rather than the Doctor in the TARDIS (much as we had first meeting the new Doctor in “Rose”), which suggests Russell T Davies has an overriding concern with ensuring the series always takes the companion’s perspective, rather than that of the Doctor. Like it gives the young people something more human to relate to.

    The structuring of this episode was pretty good too. From this and the christmas special it appears that we might have seen the end of the rushed magic-suddenly-solving-everything-within-the-final-two-minutes endings of the first two of the new series. Here’s hoping.

    #123259

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > I was rather frustrated that they seem to have left things open for a romantic relationship to blossom.

    I think it would spoil it if there was a romantic relationship between the Dr and Martha, it would ruin it if he fell in love with every companion he meets.

    > this is a great opportunity to dispense with the baggage from the Rose era

    Again I disagree, I liked the idea of Rose actually having a past and a life on present day Earth, rather than sodding off with the Doctor and not missing her past life.

    #123324

    Seb Patrick

    Edited the subject heading – sorry, but I can’t bear to see it written as “Dr Who” ;-)

    Anyway, this was ace. Loved the tie bit, loved Zovirax, loved Anne Reid, loved the new improved Tennant performance, and most of all, loved Martha. Even my girlfriend, normally a mega Who-sceptic, thought it was a great ep because she liked Martha so much.

    This series is going to kick considerable amounts of arse.

    #123325

    Steve Harris

    I agree with Seb, apart from the ‘girlfriend’ bit as I dont know the lady, but the wife actually sat down and watched this one with us and stayed with it…

    I felt that Martha, apart from oozing sex appeal also came across as more of an action girl type than Rose. Time will tell if She is going to be a great replacement but first signs are good. Looking very good so far. Loved the ‘Rhinos’, very military like.

    Just one other point, loved the idea of the crosses but wouldn’t life have been so much simpler for an Alien to remain unoticed if they could have found a felt pen…

    #123328

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    The comedy in this episode was the best it’s been in a long time. The Planet Zovirax gag, the fact that Emmeline Pankhurst nicked the Doctor’s laser spanner… excellent stuff.

    At the risk of sounding predictable – it’s a far better comedy SF than fucking Hyperdrive. Of course, with every risk, there’s always the possibility of failure…

    Also:

    The logo of the Union Aerospace Corporation from Doom is seen on medical equipment in the MRI room.

    Fantastic!

    #123355

    Andrew

    > I think it would spoil it if there was a romantic relationship between the Dr and Martha, it would ruin it if he fell in love with every companion he meets.

    Well, I’d say he loved Rose, rather than was IN love with her.

    The implication in the interviews for this season seems to be that Martha’s romantic interest in the Doctor may be one-way-traffic. Which struck me as a pretty good iea. How could you NOT have a crush on the man?!

    #123356

    Tarka Dal

    By being completly hetrosexual?

    It was a great episode. A very swashbuckling, romp of a storyline which is a great way to watch any new season. As Andrew says above it looks like the ‘love’ is going to be unrequited. I wasn’t convinced by Martha in the trailers but seeing her in action (oooh pardon) she’s great. I love her inquisitive nature, how she seemed to take to concepts very quickly and then immediately want to know how and why etc. Having a whole new relationship at the centre of the show will help set this apart from it simply being Rose-era II.

    I also don’t mind the on-earth bits. Again, I think it helps define this era of Who from the past. My only problem with them is scenes like the one with the 21st party play out like really bad soap opera. If you are going to flesh out the companion it’d be nice to have a more rounded family then a bunch of one-dimensional stereotypes.

    At what point did he appear to say Smeg? I’ve watched the episode twice (almost) now and failed to spot that.

    #123358

    Tarka Dal

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5723/misc.html

    Go to the the clip at the very bottom.

    #123367

    Pete Part Three

    As a frequent detractor of the series, I was pleasantly surprised. This was far better than the last two openers, and a much better entry than the Christmas episode. Which was SHITE.

    And Tennant rocks.

    #123391

    Anonymous

    You gave me a dream last night because it was one where David Tennant kept saying “smeg” in a manic-paced sci-fi programme to a laughing audience.

    #123399

    performingmonkey

    > and a much better entry than the Christmas episode. Which was SHITE.

    Well I thought that at first but after seeing it three times now (the third was on Sunday) I actually really like it. You’ve got to take it for what it is which is a fast-paced light-hearted jaunt for Christmas Day with remote controlled grenade baubles and everything (albeit with the slant that the Doctor is going through his own personal hell throughout). The Tardis motorway chase is top-notch, and Catherine Tate is great once she stops shouting every line (“OI! I’m LATE for the wedding! My OWN wedding! You’re GOING THe WRONG WAYY!!” etc.). She gets good when she starts fake-crying at the reception.

    As for ‘Smith & Jones’ I think it’s the best episode Russell has written for Tennant so far, and it’s maybe even the best Tennant performance (although he was damn good in The Runaway Bride). A few things that were a gnat’s wing away from connecting throughout series 2 suddenly clicked together (with an audible CLICK!). Maybe it’s something to do with the FACT that Martha is already a much more suitable companion for David Tennant’s Doctor. It’s no good complaining about her family because what can you actually do in the two minutes of screentime they get? Her sister though is fucking lovely and I hope there’s a chance of her being more involved in later episodes (and maybe she could replace Martha as the companion if she is killed for some reason…). Freema seemed a little nervous in parts of the episode, but I reckon some of her lines were a bit clunky from the pen of Mr T Davies, especially at the end when she’s discovering the Tardis (despite Tennant mouthing ‘it’s bigger on the inside’ which is positively godlike). I don’t think they’ll ever beat Rose’s entry into the Tardis (‘it’s…alien’ ‘yes’ ‘you’re alien’ ‘yes, is that all right?’ ‘yeah’ or whatever it is, it’s crap written down but Billie and Eccleston pwn the world in the scene)

    #123400

    Steve Harris

    It may seem like going against some Holy law but I was never a huge fan of Eccleston.
    Some of his moments with Rose were sublime but all to often for me his rather odd smile ruined a scene. I cant really put my finger on it though it was verging on an almost nervous smile at times and I found this quite irritating. Rose was also a tad giggly throughout although on the whole I loved her.
    I feel Tennant came in at the right time and took it to another level, first impressions suggest that Martha may have completed the picture.
    Tennant was made for the role, he plays the eccentric side of the Doctor brilliantly, I just hope everyone can keep it up…Marvelous

    #123402

    Andrew

    Thing is, Eccleston is one of my all-time favourite actors. Hearts and Minds, and his death in Cracker, are burned onto my brain forever.

    BUT – with him as the Doctor, I always felt he was ‘acting eccentric and excited’ rather than…well, actually being it. Tennant’s enthusiasm and energy seems real, somehow. Natural. Just like Baker’s natural eccentricity.

    It’s like…Dalton is a better ‘ac-tor’ than Connery. But there’s a natural suited-to-the-part vibe – especially visible on parts like Bond and The Doctor – that’s hard to compete with, no matter how good you are.

    #123403

    Tarka Dal

    Eccleston however managed to take a very established role and create entirely his own persona with one-line. Tennant is really growing on me as the series continues but it’s taken long enough. In season 2 it to often felt like he was just a fanboy apeing Tom Baker era Who.

    As for this…

    > It?s no good complaining about her family because what can you actually do in the two minutes of screentime they get?

    Well you can not have shit dialogue and a couple of completly unconvincing actors (The father and his blonde)

    I do agree however that Martha is more suited to being Tennant’s companion. Rose seemed more suited to Eccleston. UK Gold showed ‘New Earth’ earlier and it got me thinking that the story suited Eccleston’s Doctor much more. Indeed thinking about it I could even see the Eccleston working well in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. I’ve a feeling this season Tennant will easily surpass his last one.

    Another way of looking at it is that in Season 2 he was the new kid on the block and Billie the old hand. Which doesn’t work so well when the story is meant to be about The Doctor and his companion (and not vice versa). As it is now The Doctor & actor are the wise old heads able to port wisdom onto the newcomer.

    #123196

    performingmonkey

    Well Eccleston still has my favourite moments of the series – the first scene with the Dalek, his speech to the Daleks at the end of Bad Wolf, his whole performance in The End Of The World (I watched it recently and fucking hell it’s gold), ‘everybody lives!’, the hologram moment. OK, a lot of this is to do with the better writing in series 1 and the perfect excellence of the Eccleston/Piper pairing, but you can’t deny how good he was in the role, and from the first instant.

    #123163

    Flibster

    I noticed that too!!

    #123211

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    In the latest SFX Collection Doctor Who special, there’s the results of a favourite episode poll. Out of the last two series, The Girl in the Fireplace won, which I can’t really argue with.

    Lowest rated was Fear Her (fair comment, although I don’t hate it as much as most people seem to), and second lowest was The Long Game. Third lowest, however, was Love & Monsters, which I find utterly baffling. How can an episode that is basically a love letter to fandom – at 7:00pm on BBC ONE on a Saturday night, no less – be hated so much by a bunch of SF fans?

    #123235

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I really can’t stand Love and Monsters…it was hardly even an episode of Dr Who. Maybe it could have worked as a spin-off set in the Dr Who world but the doctor was hardly in it. Just seemed like an excuse to use the Blue Peter competition winner and Peter Kay to me.

    #123236

    Andrew

    Well, something had to be last – and second to last, and third to last – and frankly, Pegg or no Pegg, I’d have dumped The Long Game down to the bottom. Fear Her is redeemed for me by some of the smartest, most natural dialogue and gag writing of the series. (Fingers in the jar!)

    > Just seemed like an excuse to use the Blue Peter competition winner and Peter Kay to me.

    See, I never got that. When Davies’ recurring obsession is the effect the Doctor has on people – the ones he leaves behind, the ones he barely touches – Love & Monsters stands as the same theme, played on different instruments. Or something.

    Whether you ENJOY his recurring obsession is something else…

    Using Kay is no different from using Pegg, say; and a good monster idea is a good monster idea, wherever it comes from. What’s ‘Dalek’ if not an exploitation of a good monster?

    #123237

    Ben Kirkham

    Love and Monsters was carrying on a long Doctor Who tradition to try something different. I loved it.

    As for Smith and Jones, I loved that too. I was worried about the new series after Army of Ghosts. I thought it seemed as though it had let the effects and spectacle take over a bit. The Runaway Bride was fun but disposable.

    Martha seems like a much better companion than Rose. I liked Rose, but Martha is much more switched on, very intelligent, sexy, and seems to fit so well with the tenth Doctor. In fact, Martha reminded me of some of the best companions from the classic series but updated. Certain companions work better with some Doctors than others (like Adric and the fourth Doctor).

    David Tennant was also absolutely terrific, his best performance yet. I’ve always loved him, but here he just seemed to nail everything so well. All of his humour and energy was perfectly in tune with the script.

    The script itself was a clever little piece by Russell T Davies, and Martha’s family seem loaded with possibilities for storylines. Anyone who has followed the development of this current series will know that it is going to be brilliant.

    A breath of wonderful fresh air, frankly.

    #123238

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    The Long Game is one of the weaker episodes… but I find it impossible to dislike too much – because when watching it I just have such good memories of the final two-parter. And it’s an extremely traditional Who story as well, which is nice to have.

    Love & Monsters really is one of my favourite episodes of new Who, though. The whole fandom thing just resonates a lot with me.

    #123406

    performingmonkey

    You see, I think the fandom element is what put some people off the episode. Some people (stupidly) thought he was having a go at fandom. Perhaps the whole thing was too self-aware, it was more like an episode about Doctor Who rather than an episode OF Doctor Who. I think everyone was anticipating it as the stupid Doctor-liteAbsorbaloff/Peter Kay episode too, which didn’t help. I liked it though, particularly the parts with Jackie where she wasn’t annoying for once, and the whole sort of life-affirming message of it all.

    The worst episode is definitely Fear Her, but I also had problems with New Earth, the series 2 finale 2-parter, The Long Game, The Idiot’s Lantern and parts of School Reunion (the Sarah Jane stuff is OK (even though Tennant hadn’t nailed his Doctor by then and went overboard) but the rest…probably more suitable for the upcoming Sarah Jane spinoff).

    #123205

    Tarka Dal

    I’ve only see Love & Monsters once but I didn’t enjoy it at all. I can appreciate the ‘fandom’ angle and on paper I find it an intriguing one. Expect that my life is fandom, therefore I don’t need it in the show I’m a fan off.

    My problem with it was I when tune in to watch Doctor Who I expect a few things. I expect the Tardis, maybe a companion or two and most of all I expect The Doctor. Instead it all felt very redundant, 40 minutes investing in characters which were never to be seen again. It wasn’t all bad, Mark Warren is likeable and the music was great but over all 90% of it was a bunch of pretty dull characters faffing about and Peter Kay hamming it up as the honey monster from the planet zog. Then at the end, The Doctor turns up, you get a two minute tease of what you actuall tuned in for and *bam* over. That’s meant to be your Who fix for another seven days. Well sorry but bugger that.

    Perhaps if Who had seasons similar in length to american shows, 20+ episodes, and L&M was just one episode out of a hundred It wouldn’t irk me so much. As it stands we get thirteen episodes and I want to see The Doctor or his companion at the heart of all of them. If budget & time can’t manage this, then cut the bloody series to twelve episodes please.

    Oh and School Reunion was bloody great, it had that for kids and big kids feel about it, connected the new show up with Classic Who and managed to get Anthony Head in there as well. More like that please.

    #123192

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    See, I think you’re allowed at least one episode a series (whether that series is six episodes long, 13 eps long, or 26 eps long) to be a complete format breaker, and have the balls to do something completely different. The thing is though, as Andrew says, and I mentioned in my review – I don’t think it’s much of a format-breaker at all. It might be in style, but not in content.

    And just because something is part of my life, it doesn’t mean I don’t want to see it on-screen. Otherwise, I’d find very little I wanted to watch at all…

    Weirdly though, I saw School Reunion again recently, and I stand by my original assesment of it at the time – which was, it’s just not as clever as it thinks it is. Old companion coming back is a great idea – but they didn’t do nearly enough with it. The stuff about companions dying and The Doctor living on was fine – but the forced rivalry between Sarah Jane and Rose is APPALLING, and I found embarassing to watch. Cumulating in that Loch Ness Monster argument that makes me want to tear my face off. Absolutely diabolical dialogue, which unfortunately New Who badly suffers from at times. (See also: “I think you need a Doctor…”)

    Which is a shame, because everyone always talks about how great the episode is – and I’d hoped that I’d finally see what people raved about it so much for. But no such luck, sadly.

    #123200

    Tarka Dal

    I agree you are allowed format breakers, I love them – It wasn’t that which frustrated more the complete lack of Who & Companion replaced by characters that all seemed a bit watery. Likewise I’m not saying that because something is in your life it you can’t watch shows about it. Simply that in terms of sci-fi fandom, I personally don’t feel the need too.

    I wouldn’t even go as far at to say L&M was a bad episode, just one that I didn’t like. For example Fear Her I thought could have been reasonably watchable but in the second half the production and script totally fell apart and it made my skincrawl.

    #123212

    mick

    The only post I bothered reading here was Ben’s, this was because he has Paul McGann as his avatar and is from Stoke, thus he is vastly superior to you all.

    #123243

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    >The only post I bothered reading here was Ben?s, this was because he has Paul McGann as his avatar and is from Stoke, thus he is vastly superior to you all.

    But I have a potato in a fish bowl……anyone?…

    #123316

    Ben Kirkham

    > “The only post I bothered reading here was Ben?s, this was because he has Paul McGann as his avatar and is from Stoke, thus he is vastly superior to you all.”

    Well, *blushes*, thank you. But substitute ‘superior’ for anally retentive Doctor Who fan!

    As for McGann, his avatar works best and he is a brilliant, brilliant Doctor. Especially in the audios.

    > “But I have a potato in a fish bowl??anyone??”

    I love potatoes and fish bowls!

    #123349

    performingmonkey

    > (See also: ?I think you need a Doctor??)

    I laughed so much at that when it was first on. I don’t think it’s a bad line though. In any other episode it would have been but right at that point at the end of series 1 it’s needed. The line makes it feel like a euphoric, climactic moment.

    #123350

    Anonymous

    Yeah but Smeg4Brains, it’s unclear whether your potato can’t swim because it’s a potato or because there’s no water in the bowl.

    #123376

    Ben Kirkham

    > (See also: ?I think you need a Doctor??)

    I thought it was cheesy but thank God for Christopher Eccleston (the unwilling), who delivered it in the best possible way he could. I bet he nearly keeled over when he read that one…

    #123277

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > Edited the subject heading – sorry, but I can?t bear to see it written as ?Dr Who? ;-)

    I get the same sort of thing when people refer to the Doctor as ‘Doctor Who’…..THATS NOT HIS NAME DAMMIT!

    #123320

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    Just going back to Love & Monsters a minute – this review is just brilliant.

    #123337

    Ben Kirkham

    A brilliant review that just *nails* everything about the episode.

    #123346

    Tarka Dal

    Unless you happen to disagree of course.

    #123389

    performingmonkey

    > THATS NOT HIS NAME DAMMIT!

    Tell that to the show credits.

    #123437

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    He’s credited as “The Doctor”, you big twat.

    #123446

    Andrew

    > He?s credited as ?The Doctor?, you big twat.

    He is now – but Eccleston’s wasn’t…

    #123269

    performingmonkey

    > He is now – but Eccleston?s wasn?t?

    See. However, I’ll own up I thought it still said ‘Doctor Who’. That’s because I don’t look at the credits through immediately switching to Confidential (and frankly the end theme just pisses me off with it’s bombastic nature). Anyway, it said ‘Doctor Who’ in classic episodes.

    #123433

    Ben Kirkham

    > Anyway, it said ?Doctor Who? in classic episodes.

    Hartnell to Tom Baker were ‘Doctor Who’ and Davison to McCoy (and McGann in the TV Movie, I think) were ‘The Doctor.’

    #123331

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > Hartnell to Tom Baker were ?Doctor Who? and Davison to McCoy (and McGann in the TV Movie, I think) were ?The Doctor.?

    You’re just like a bucket full of Doctor Who knowledge aren’t you? You like a bucket of Whoness…..a Who bucket……a Whoket, if you will.

    #80002

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    > Hartnell to Tom Baker were ?Doctor Who? and Davison to McCoy (and McGann in the TV Movie, I think) were ?The Doctor.?

    To cloud matters further, Davidson is credited as Doctor Who just the once – at the end of Logopolis.

    #123467

    Ben Kirkham

    A Whoket, I love that!

    Un/fortunately, I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Red Dwarf… yet.

    #124106

    performingmonkey

    “I – am – a – hu – man – Da – lek – with – a – lame – A – mer – i – can – ac – cent – and – shi -tty – an – i – ma – tron – ic – ten – ta – cles!”

    #124294

    Tarka Dal

    Yeah funny that. An american having a lame american accent.

    #124350

    performingmonkey

    I mean it’s lame that it has an American accent (because, let’s face it, American’s suck). It should be Sec’s voice but more humanized.

    #124381

    Anonymous

    Can anyone shed light for me as to how that human dalek is scarier than a normal dalek? Okay, so it has space for human thinking, but surely that’s been proven at other times to be a weakening point whenever a dalek has been contaminated? Also: 1) A human dalek can’t glide around, hover, shoot things etc; 2) A human dalek doesn’t have a bullet-proof dalek casing; 3) It looked hilarious rather than scary. It’s like a boglin or ALF soft toy – an ugly but ‘misunderstood’ monster with a heart, so you have to love it really.

    #124401

    Andrew

    > Can anyone shed light for me as to how that human dalek is scarier than a normal dalek?

    It’s not. Hope that sheds some light. :-)

    It also takes the species back to its old, human-ish form, and misses the whole point of Dalek’s natural, built-in lack of compromise. Ho-hum.

    #124406

    Seb Patrick

    It should be Sec?s voice but more humanized.

    No it shouldn’t, it has the human bloke’s mouth and vocal chords. So it has his voice, but with Sec’s intonation. You may think it sounds silly, but that’s how it should be.

    In fact, there’s a part of me that’s wondering if the human Dalek is SUPPOSED to be completely shit and inferior. I get the feeling that Sec’s going to realise he’s made a massive mistake coming out of his comfy indestructible shell, and that the other three are also going to see him as weaker and attempt to off him…

    #124415

    Anonymous

    Maybe he can still go into his protective shell though whenever he likes, like a hermit crab.

    #124416

    Anonymous

    I agree that maybe the human dalek is ‘supposed’ to be inferior, but we should get to that gradually, surely; shouldn’t we be experiencing some kind of foreboding now? Not just thinking when we see him that he must be shit compared to a normal dalek. I have no suspense building up for the next episode. There were so many reasons this episode worked, yet the human dalek concept escapes me on so many levels.

    #124435

    Tarka Dal

    Yeah I agree but I think something worth considering is the old school nature of the episode. A Dalek/Human cross is meant given the legacy of the show to be a nightmare scenario. Sure to us grown up who geeks it’s not very scary but then, be honest, when was the last time a Dalek scared you whilst watching Who?

    I realise I’m risking the wrath of my peers but as a villain the Daleks aren’t scary in the slightest. However, I’m seeing them through my cynical grown up eyes and not those of an enthusiastic 8 year. I vaguely remember Curse of Fenric scaring the shit out of my as a child. I doubt it would now.

    #124436

    Andrew

    See, I used to think that was the case, but ‘Dalek’ really turned me back on to finding them intimidating. That hasn’t necessarily stuck, but they CAN still be pretty thrilling.

    Done right, Who can still send chills through me – The Impossible Planet worked a treat – but obviously there are limits. Fear can be PG, Jaws proves that, but 7pm on BBC1 can only go so far, in tone as well as literal content.

    #123296

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > but 7pm on BBC1 can only go so far, in tone as well as literal content.

    Thats where Torchwood comes in

    #123291

    Steve Harris

    I’m over two minds with this Human Dalek thing, it could go a number of ways…
    The weird side of me wonders how they are going to create more, is Martha going to get a nasty surprise come the Dalek rutting season..
    Even the Doctor thinks Humans to be weak, so my guess is this transformation will be their downfall

    #123292

    Tarka Dal

    > Who can still send chills through me – The Impossible Planet

    Very true. Probably the most chilling episode so far. In particular, The Ood. I still think the Human Dalek will be quite scary for kids though. Might have helped if had a more Dalek-esque voice. Seb’s pointed out why logically it didn’t but for effect it might have helped. Also a more gruesome bonding of the two races rather than a bloke with a big blob on his head might have helped.

    I couldn’t help but think “yeah but you lost your looks” after “I am a Human Dalek, I am your future”. Likewise part of me expects Hugh Quarshie’s Solomon to emerge from Hooverville covered in Khaled brains complaining “His head burst”.

    #123293

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I think the Human Dalek looks scarier than a normal Dalek but to be honest Sec has just lost everything that is dangerous about the Dalek race which is the hovering, the laser and the unshootableness.

    #123339

    Anonymous

    Scarier than a normal dalek!

    #123305

    Anonymous

    I know, that made me do a LOL as well. The scary part was when Sec got sucked into the dalek. Otherwise, human dalek = not scary. I agree with whoever on NotBBC said the head of the human dalek was reminicent of those of the aliens on Gerry Anderson’s Space Precinct, which were so big in order to fit in all the servos and motors to make the face move. Not fully ruined by the Radio Times cover, which failed to reveal how SHIT the voice was. “Ha-llo I am an-Merican acc-ent da-lek this is fu-tures of you oth-er da-leks.”

    The main flaw with all of this though, and why I find the human dalek completely less scary than normal daleks, is that such a creature is like ALL THE OTHER NEMESES the Doctor has faced ever before. It has a human shape (taking away the difference that made the daleks menacing in the first place), potentially recalling the Cybermen, but without the metal body parts evoking more the Sea Devils and all that kind of thing. It threatens at the moment to be an utterly pointless exercise in negation, but we’ll see. There had BETTER be a good reason for having created a human dalek in part two of this story or I will become RILED.

    They could pull this off, voice and all. For it to be a scary voice, they need to be aware of how much it evokes Michael Jackson. Human dalek in close up: “Slee-ping with oth-er par-ent’s chil-dren is per-fectly nat-ural, it’s beau-tiful”. And thus is born Sec’s son (Saxon). *Shudder*

    #80001

    performingmonkey

    They’re gonna try and evoke sympathy for the hybrid like with the lone Dalek in ‘Dalek’. I’d bet everything that they’ll have the human side winning through and when that happens the other Daleks will turn on him. The Doctor will say ‘I’m so sorry…’ to him at some point too.

    #123255

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > Scarier than a normal dalek!
    >I know, that made me do a LOL as well.

    Oh come on! Daleks don’t look in the slightest bit scary. Remeber, I am just talking about looks, not intelligence, killability, threat or anything like that.

    “Don’t go near Dalek Sec….you might get some squelchy, slimy thing stuck to your face”

    #123257

    Anonymous

    Alright, taking out all the stuff about what their weapons can actually do etc, and presumably the really cool way in which they’re resistant to bullets in order to just go with the way they look? Well… I’d argue that when they’re shot properly (shot as in “with a camera”), they are really menacing, and this goes as much for classic series Daleks as it does for the new ones. When they glide effectively, when they’re lit well and are shot from low down, they are very fucking menacing. And they will remain so if the makers of the series don’t continue to de-mystify them or keep giving them various achilles heels in order to successfully wipe them out after every story with them in. See also: classic series Cybermen which, by the end, could be killed by various weapons and temperatures and all sorts of things, even having an allergy to gold for some reason. The unemotional, unmoving, gliding quality of the Daleks is what makes them a threat, more than what their guns and plungers can do. There’s something of the Terminator in both them and the Cybermen, and I’m referring to the first Terminator film here, where the main drive was “run away from this fucking thing that’s coming after us as fast as it can and which can’t be killed”, like a good, proper nightmare. If they play it right, there’s nothing by way of looks that prevents Daleks having this quality – they’re weakened only by silly plot revelations and magic end-of-episode levers and mobile phones.

    #123267

    Anonymous

    The extent of the fear that Daleks can conjur by looks alone is clearly debatable, but you could equally argue the same for the Swastika symbol, which cannot fail nowadays to bring about a certain very physical gut reaction only due to its association with horrific historical events. Please don’t bring up the “thread that eventually found a relation to Hitler and the Nazis” argument because I’m not making that point here. The Daleks are often compared with Nazis, and Dalek stories have frequently drawn inspiration from them… see the Hartnell Invasion of Earth episodes where their plungers are really long and doing *that salute* as they glide through the streets. The fear that comes from a BBC-designed wooden pepperpot prop on hidden wheels can surely only come about from one’s accumulated associations of previous stories featuring them. Which combines with their unearthly quality and non-human shape, and any deliberate associations with the Third Reich that have been locked into them along the way. Children were terrified of the Daleks in the 1960s. One breaking the surface of water and slowly rising up towards the camera – enough of a cliffhanger alone to get kids thrilling for the next episode.

    “I am as-Merican Da-leks Je-sus lo-ves you” is NOT scarier yet, I’m afraid. At all.

    #123278

    Anonymous

    > Hartnell Invasion of Earth episodes

    Well, you know what I mean. Although these would be fantastic as well. He’d have to be massive, mind.

    #123347

    Anonymous

    > a certain very physical gut reaction only due to its association with horrific historical events

    I’m not talking about being sick here. I meant to write “a very physical gut reaction only due to its association with certain horrific historical events”. Not sure that shift of the word “certain” makes any difference but I can assure you I’m not speaking about vomiting. I’m the sort that gets a sad feeling in my stomach whenever I so much as see a vile piece of 1960s architecture blotting an otherwise beautiful street; I experience emotions physically and forget that not everyone does. So yeah. I don’t vomit whenever I see a swastika and I don’t assume you do either. That would just be weird.

    #123385

    Tarka Dal

    Shot from the right angles, with the right lighting and music. A Cardboard box could be made to look menacing.

    #123386

    Andrew

    If you remove style AND context from anything, of course the emotional reaction will differ.

    Funny people don’t have to ‘look funny’. Chucky’s a lousy doll, Michael Myers is just a bloke in a Shatner mask. The Swastika isn’t an intrinsically hateful symbol – it’s original meaning was “well-being”! – but context is everything.

    (And Godwin’s Law once again rears its head…)

    #123415

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    Check out the alternate text for the podcast picture on the Doctor Who site.

    #123416

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I couldn?t help but think ?yeah but you lost your looks? after ?I am a Human Dalek, I am your future?.

    This is fantastic. Someone needs to edit that together and stick it on YouTube…

    #123417

    Anonymous

    “> Scarier than a normal dalek!
    >I know, that made me do a LOL as well.

    Oh come on! Daleks don?t look in the slightest bit scary. Remeber, I am just talking about looks, not intelligence, killability, threat or anything like that.”

    All the hundreds of kids who genuinely hid behind sofas in the 60s would disagree with you. Besides, your comment “Daleks don’t look in the slightest bit scary” pretty much negates your assertion that the Human Dalek is “scarier”. A Human Dalek isn’t made “scary” by being “scarier” than something you’ve already argued isn’t even slightly scary.

    Did you find adverts for Boglins scary in the 80s?

    #123426

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I’m not sayin that they aren’t scary. The fact that they could hover up my stairs and exterminate me within the blink of an eye with his little laser would scare the shit out of me.

    But….looks wise – its dusty the bin with a plunger.

    I love the fact the the most popular thread on a Dwarf forum is one about Who

    #123454

    Anonymous

    But as Andrew says, nothing stays the same once its context is unrecognisably altered. Remove the smell and the maggots and the fact that it’s unexpected and looks horrible, and what’s frightening about suddenly finding a dead corpse in your bed? Besides the fact that it might impact terribly upon other people’s lives as well, what’s the big deal about suicide?

    I too like that the most popular thread here at the moment is one about Who. I purchased Survival on DVD recently – the last story of what they’re calling the Classic series. There’s a line near the end of the last episode which uses the refrain “Tooth & Claw”. There’s an episode in the second of the new series called Tooth & Claw and an episode featuring cat people, but I was disappointed to find that these are not the same one. Oh well. I’ve not seen the cat people episode – are these related to the ones in Survival at all?

    #123457

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > Oh well. I?ve not seen the cat people episode – are these related to the ones in Survival at all?

    I don’t know, I haven’t seen much of the classic series, but I do know that if you want to see cat people in the new series they are in Series 2, Episode 1, ‘New Earth’ and Series 3, Episode 3, ‘Gridlocked’.

    #123479

    Anonymous

    Yeah I’ve seen Gridlocked, where one cat person was pleasant and the other was repentant. I’ll check out New Earth since it appears the species were the baddies in that episode. It’ll be interesting if they have a link somehow to the McCoy episode, which by the way is very good. Doctor Who was getting good again around the time it was axed. It had gathered a reputation of being embarrassing for the BBC by then (according to the documentary on the Survival DVD about ending Doctor Who), but it was improving, becoming darker, more mysterious and also more surreal. Also see Ghost Light from the same series, which has loads of unexplained plot details making it baffling on first viewing (a strange thing given that home video still wasn’t massive in 1989 so TV was much more ephemeral then than now). McCoy’s final series was largely overlooked which means he’s really underrated as the Doctor. He’s generally named as the rubbish one; I’d say Colin Baker’s uppity, loud-clothed effort was far more misjudged.

    #123377

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    OHMYGOD ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod OHMYGOD.

    I just saw my very first episode of Doctor Who.

    I’m poor, and I don’t get cable, so I hadn’t even figured I’d ever see any of this show unless my library got a DVD set or something, but it was on one of the public televison stations my TV picks up, right after an episode of the first season of The Black Adder (which was the whole reason I was watching that channel in the first place). Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is — I love this show now.

    Carry on. Don’t let me interrupt you. I just had to share.

    #123374

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > I just saw my very first episode of Doctor Who.

    Come…..join us…….you are one of us now!!!

    Muhahhahahahaha

    #123379

    Anonymous

    >…and that the other three {daleks} are also going to see
    > him as weaker and attempt to off him?

    10 points to Seb on the predictometer there, well done.

    #123383

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    So Caan is now the last Dalek in existence!

    The question is when will we see him again and how are they going to write more Daleks in?

    #123412

    Andrew

    > So Caan is now the last Dalek in existence!

    Yeah, right. Like we haven’t heard THAT before… :-)

    #123423

    Tarka Dal

    > So Caan is now the last Dalek in existence! The question is when will we see him again and how are they going to write more Daleks in?

    Do a BTTF thing and have him mix it with something that’s gone before or cloning. In series 1 we got ‘Dalek’ who was meant to be the last of his kind and by the end of the series there were blinking millions of ’em. It really depends on where the circuits of emergency temperal shift take ol’ Caan. Just so long as it’s not seven or eight weeks into the future. That would be badong.

    #123424

    Seb Patrick

    What episode did you see, Arlene? New series, or Classic series?

    #123373

    performingmonkey

    Caan may be the last Dalek but that doesn’t mean more can’t be created, especially if Davros is still around which I think he is. I’m guessing Russell T Davies WILL do a Davros story. Either that or Caan will turn up in this year’s finale.

    #123380

    Andrew

    > I?m guessing Russell T Davies WILL do a Davros story

    The mention of the Dalek creator in this story does make me think he’ll go there eventually. His gradual reintroduction of old elements has been meticulous.

    #123381

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    What do people think to episode 7’s title, ’42’?

    Could this be a Hitch-hikers Guide reference?

    #123445

    performingmonkey

    > Could this be a Hitch-hikers Guide reference?

    No, it’s how many minutes before something happens in the episode (I won’t spoil in case you don’t want to know). It’s supposed to be a real-time 42 minutes (a la ’24’) as well, although I don’t know whether that’s confirmed. Should be a good one.

    > His gradual reintroduction of old elements has been meticulous.

    Yeah he’s done well with this. There haven’t been that many moments of out-and-out classic series fanwank, which is definitely a good thing, and the old enemies and concepts he’s brought back have been handled in a fresh way. A lot of viewers could have been turned off by a load of babble about Gallifrey in series 1 but it wasn’t even mentioned by name which helped make it fresh and intriguing for noobs (apologies for the use of that word). I don’t think they could have re-introduced the Daleks in a better way than in ‘Dalek’.

    #123229

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    >What episode did you see, Arlene? New series, or Classic series?

    It was from the pen of RTD, and I think it was called “The End of the World”. (Now you can tell me why that was absolutely the worst Who I could possibly watch as a first episode, right? I think that’s how it goes.)

    You should’ve heard the squealing when I recognized it was Doctor Who; you’d think I’d won the lottery. (For what it’s worth, I doubt I’d have lingered at all were it not for all the reviews and that I’ve read here and on Noise to Signal — I might not have even recognized it.)

    Anyway, it was…There aren’t words. It wasn’t perfect; I think Grant Naylor at their peak could write a better story with better dialogue. But nonetheless…it was pretty damned good stuff.

    #123288

    Seb Patrick

    Bloody hell, if you think The End Of The World is brilliant, then wait until you see a Steven Moffat episode…

    Get on that internet now, and download The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances, a two-part story that happens to be just about the best thing to have been on British television in nigh-on two decades.

    #123188

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    I dunno about “brilliant”, but it was pretty good. Part of it was that it was the very first Doctor Who episode I’d ever seen, after seeing you all talk about it for ages on the intarwebs. Anyway, it had lots of bright colors, so it entertained me for the hour =P . But if that’s what “Meh, it could be better” is by New Who standards, then I look forward to the actual good stuff.

    Just to clarify: The Doctor’s companions are kind of supposed to be not that bright, right? So that they may be regularly captured or somehow else imperiled? I already figured out that for the Doctor, the laws of physics and good common sense are more optional guidelines or suggestions than anything else. And come to think, that’s part of why it was so neato.

    #123253

    Ben Kirkham

    Arlene, if you really start to love the new series (they’re excellent), then maybe you might want to give the classic series a go. I can suggest one quality story from each Doctor now out on DVD.

    William Hartnell – The Aztecs
    Patrick Troughton – The Mind Robber
    Jon Pertwee – Inferno
    Tom Baker – (tough one, there’s a lot of classics, here) City of Death
    Peter Davison – The Caves of Androzani
    Colin Baker – Revelation of the Daleks
    Sylvester McCoy – The Curse of Fenric
    Paul McGann – The TV Movie (it’s not brilliant but McGann is)

    Also, I’d suggest The Empty Child for more Christopher Eccleston as Seb says, also Dalek. Check out Tooth and Claw and The Girl in the Fireplace for David Tennant. Hope this is useful.

    #123345

    Tarka Dal

    Tooth and Claw!!!

    *keels over*

    #123459

    Anonymous

    > Either that or Caan will turn up in this year?s finale.

    I really hope not. I’d like to see a finale that doesn’t lean on Daleks this time around. Anyway word is it’ll be the Master anyway. Which will be great.

    > Tom Baker – (tough one, there?s a lot of classics, here) City of Death

    I find this to be Tom Baker’s best. But I also consider The Talons of Weng-Chiang to be such a classic that it cannot go unmentioned.

    > Paul McGann – The TV Movie (it?s not brilliant but McGann is)

    Well – it’s Paul McGann’s only non-audio appearance as the Doctor but it’s also distinctly avoidable. Some nice design aside, as well as a wonderful retirement-type appearance from McCoy’s Doctor, I’d say there’s little going for this 90 minute debacle. It’s amazing how little they manage to cram into its running time, considering what classic Who succeeded in doing in three episodes.

    > UK Gold showed ?New Earth? earlier and it got me thinking that the story suited Eccleston?s Doctor much more.

    What an interesting thing. I’ve been specifically watching debut stories of Who Doctors recently, eg Logopolis, The Twin Dilemma, Time and the Rani, and was having some similar thoughts. By the way – one can view many entire classic stories (as well as ones from the new series) on youtube, in 10 minute chunks. I really recommend doing this as much classic Who still isn’t out on DVD.

    #123460

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I’ve just shortened your name, I’m afraid Sylv, as it was breaking the layout of the forum topic list. Sorry.

    I’ll fix my dodgy CSS at some point so it copes with long names better.

    #123473

    performingmonkey

    Honestly, the only series 2 episode I can say I wouldn’t have preferred Eccleston in is The Girl In The Fireplace. Tennant came into his own here like a right sneaky bastard, showing how he actually DID have the potential to pwn the role (which he now does). Unfortunately the following Cyber 2-parter didn’t live up to expectations (well, my expectations at least), The Idiot’s Lantern was…crap(?) and then we finally got another good one. Love & Monsters could have featured any Doctor, Fear Her, then he did SOME great work in the finale two-parter but also some OTT stuff (e.g. the Ghostbusters line said in Scooby-Doo’s voice) and not enough gravitas (THERE’S THAT WORD) against the Daleks – this was partially rectified in the Evolution 2-parter, at least you could actually feel the history between them.

    NOW the episodes feel like they’re made for Tennant and from the moment you see him in Smith & Jones he IS the Doctor (much like how Eccleston WAS the Doctor from his first moment in Rose). It’s also worth noting that this and Gridlock are the best RTD scripting efforts since…The Christmas Invasion?

    #123485

    Anonymous

    To everyone who can’t now tell by looking at me, I’m Sylvester McCoy in a Harpo Marx wig, and I’m currently wearing Colin Baker’s clothes. They don’t fit me very well. Also I have a slightly dodgy video effect that fails to hide both the line of my wig and the fact that I don’t have Colin Baker’s face.

    > NOW the episodes feel like they?re made for Tennant and from the moment you see him in Smith & Jones he IS the Doctor (much like how Eccleston WAS the Doctor from his first moment in Rose). It?s also worth noting that this and Gridlock are the best RTD scripting efforts since?The Christmas Invasion?

    I agree that Tennant has really taken the role on properly now, and I think this has matured along with the writing (which has more astute observations of what makes Tennant work as the Doctor, and a keener awareness of what makes a story work in terms of structuring, ie not suddenly rushing a magical solution in the last five minutes), tighter directing, and a better companion (with, so far, no annoying family-based soap-opera episodes). I was never THAT keen on Eccleston, to be honest. From the week they announced his leaving I was wondering how Tennant would turn out. I got pissed off with Eccleston’s limited range – he seemed a bit shouty, his grin seemed nervous, and he just didn’t seem comfortable doing anything like fear or anxiety. There were many great moments, but he didn’t rest that comfortably with me in general. I rather like the eccentricity of Tennant – aspects of him remind me of Tom Baker, and I’m sure it’s deliberate.

    Was The Christmas Invasion the first Christmas special? Oh, I was so disappointed with that. I thought the Runaway Bride had a much more solid story. I’m glad all the faffing about with Rose’s family is over :)

    #123508

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > (with, so far, no annoying family-based soap-opera episodes)

    Well I know that the next episode includes Martha’s family.

    #123512

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    Something occured to me the other day – I’ve loved each episode this series, wheras quite lot of the last series felt vaguely disappointing to me. Evolution of the Daleks may well have huge plotholes and been extremely derivative – but I enjoyed it far more than stuff like Tooth & Claw.

    And I think I’ve figured out why: the comedy. Each episode this series (with the possible exception of The Shakespeare Code) has made me laugh loads. I think the humour so far has been far, *far* better done than in the last two series. Evolution alone had loads of bits – “first floor perfumery”, the Dalek looking conspiratorially around, the bored pigs in the lift…

    That’s not to say that Doctor Who is all about the comedy – but when a show makes me laugh so much, I find it very hard to dislike it. It just leaves me with a good feeling at the end of each episode – rather than sitting there with things nagging in my head.

    #123477

    Andrew

    > the Dalek looking conspiratorially around, the bored pigs in the lift?

    Two of those gags are probably directorial, which makes sense. I think those eps were better directed than written – story aside, I really felt that the dialogue lacked sparkle.

    #123593

    performingmonkey

    > I think those eps were better directed than written

    Well, seeing as James Strong was IMO the best director in series 2 (The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit), getting him back for the Dalek 2-parter was always going to be a treat. He knows what he’s doing that guy (apart from maybe when Martha is stupidly stumbling across the stage during the number in Daleks In Manhatten).

    #123483

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    100th Reply!!!!!!

    That is all.

    #123420

    Anonymous

    Well then let this be the one hundred and oneth.

    #123625

    Seb Patrick

    He knows what he?s doing that guy (apart from maybe when Martha is stupidly stumbling across the stage during the number in Daleks In Manhatten).

    Or when the Daleks are doing impressions of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

    #123282

    mick

    Time to add pages to these boards?

    #123295

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    Time to add pages to these boards?

    Yeah. I didn’t think it’d take off this much, to be honest!

    I’ll look into it tonight.

    #123333

    Tarka Dal

    > Or when the Daleks are doing impressions of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

    Oh come on that was fantastic!

    #123470

    Anonymous

    > Subject: Re: Doctor Who: Evolution of the Daleks
    > Posted by moss on 22:50 30/Apr/07 :
    >
    > I’ve loved each episode this series – wheras quite lot of the last series felt > vaguely disappointing to me. Evolution of the Daleks may well have huge plotholes > and been extremely derivative – but I enjoyed it far more than stuff like Tooth & > Claw.
    >
    > And I think I’ve figured out why: the comedy. Each episode this series (with the
    > possible exception of The Shakespeare Code) has made me laugh loads. I think the
    > humour so far has been far, *far* better done than in the last two series.
    >
    > That’s not to say that Doctor Who is all about the comedy – but when a show makes > me laugh so much, I find it very hard to dislike it. It just leaves me with a good > feeling at the end of each episode – rather than sitting there with things nagging > in my head…
    >
    > This message was edited on 23:51 30/Apr/07

    Reposting something you’ve already posted on the notbbc forum doesn’t make it any more true! I didn’t know that you were also Moss at notbbc, John. All this time! Why not just call yourself John Hoare like your true names?

    #123478

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    Reposting something you?ve already posted on the notbbc forum doesn?t make it any more true!

    Oh, I’ve reposted some of my comments to three different forums at times, as I think EVERYONE SHOULD READ MY INCISIVE OPINIONS.

    I didn?t know that you were also Moss at notbbc, John. All this time! Why not just call yourself John Hoare like your true names?

    TEH LOLS

    Actually, if I was registering there now, I probably would do. But everyone knows me as moss there now…

    #123553

    Steve Harris

    Shock horror…
    42 has been put off for a week thanks to the Eurovision song contest..Why?
    I didn’t know until this morning..

    #123340

    performingmonkey

    TEH SECOND HALF OF SERIES TRAILER ‘TIS LIKE DA BEST TING EVA CHECK IT OUT, MOTHAFUCKS!

    SAXON. Is all.

    #123545

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    So. I got to see my second episode of Doctor Who. Not bad. It would have been much better without my father in the room (Please don’t ask), but the bits of “The Unquiet Dead” that I got to enjoy weren’t bad. For one thing, I found out that, in addition to being a walking deus ex machina, the Doctor also appears to have some kind of attention deficit problem (“oh crap my companion’s been kidnapped! Let’s go and hey it’s Charles Dickens you’re like my favorite writer evar what was the one story you did anyway after that hearse!”) =P Also, this Doctor does some emotions well, but I reckon fear isn’t among them. He lights up through some bits of this episode, but some of the later scenes (like when they’ve gotten themselves trapped by those nasty gas-people), in which he’s trying to face their possible death, his acting gets a bit wooden, I think.

    #123343

    performingmonkey

    > his acting gets a bit wooden, I think.

    I think it’s because they try and make it more funny than anything.

    #123522

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    Well…I think I’ve waited long enough for people to have watched The Lazarus Experiment before posting this, anybody who still hasn’t may not want to read below.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Do you think that guy was the Master?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    OK, you can read this bit….but if you’re reading this you probably read what’s above as well….YOU FOOL!

    #123527

    Jonathan Capps

    G&T Admin

    > Do you think that guy was the Master?

    Yeah, this is an interesting point. I think, more likely, he’s one of Saxon’s lackeys, but if he’s actually the master dicking around with switching bodies, that could be *very* interesting…

    Either way, John Simm is going to fucking ROCK in the final

    #123540

    performingmonkey

    People keep saying that the Master will only enter Saxon’s body in the finale, but that would be crap as it would mean all the Saxon references have never referred to the Master or any evil plan he might have.

    #123532

    Seb Patrick

    Arlene, if those episodes are being shown in order on some network (which, with “The End of the World” followed by “The Unquiet Dead”, it sounds like), then I beg of you – please find and download “Rose” before you go any further. Otherwise you’ll be forced to sit through the pretty awful “Aliens of London” two-parter (of which only the first twenty minutes or so are any good), and you’ll be four episodes in and suddenly wondering what the fuss is about, because you won’t have had the memory of the brilliant “Rose” to counteract it.

    However, you’ll then have “Dalek” immediately afterwards, and so all will be salvaged. And “The Long Game”, despite being crap, has Simon Pegg and Tamsin Greig in it. And then “Father’s Day” is brilliant. And THEN, you’ve got the “Empty Child” two-parter, which is THE BEST THING ON TELLY EVER EVER.

    So, yes, what I’m saying is – even if you’re a bit underwhelmed after the next two weeks, STICK WITH IT!

    #123539

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    I get the feeling that they are being shown in order–PBS is pretty good about showing Britcoms in their proper broadcast order.

    And don’t worry–any problems I have with the story are still being at least partly made up for by my (admittedly irrational) “OMG it’s Doctor Who” excitement. So by the time I get to “Dalek”, etcetera, I’ll probably be able to view these episodes objectively =P .

    #123567

    Andrew

    *mumbles something about quite enjoying Aliens of London…*

    #123468

    performingmonkey

    > *mumbles something about quite enjoying Aliens of London?*

    Great moments in it –

    The Doctor gets it wrong, Rose has been gone a year.
    The ship over London (officially one of those ‘fuck yeah’ moments)
    ‘It was scared’ (Eccleston officially pwns the world)
    The beautiful doctor woman otherwise known as Toshiko from Torchwood.
    The ‘real’ BBC reports of the crash (if an alien ship really DID crash into the Thames they’d probably evacuate central London and shoot any news crews that tried to film what was going on)
    Harriet Jones, MP for Flydale North, and no relation to Martha.
    The Doctor getting all excited about UNIT and going to Downing Street ‘take me to your leader’.
    The first appearance of ‘I’m sorry’ (is that in this one or World War 3?)
    The first cliffhanger in New Who.

    #123560

    Anonymous

    > Eccleston officially pwns the world

    What? Is this a typo? He owns the world?!

    #123561

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    >> Eccleston officially pwns the world

    >What? Is this a typo? He owns the world?!

    It’s not a typo.

    #123693

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    Aaaaaand…”Aliens of London”.

    Um. So.

    um. Is it okay for me not to be over-impressed by the fart mon– the Slith– …okay, the fart monsters? I like a good fart joke as much as anyone, but damn. That was just a bit stupid. And I’m not sure, but I don’t think I’m supposed to be able to guess what’s going on before the Doctor does. Well, except for the last bit, but I’m not entirely convinced of the “why” of that last bit anyway. Even accepting that there is such a thing as an “alienologist”, and that they command any professional respect at all, why gather them all up, unmask themselves (I presume simply to rub these “alienolgists'” faces in it), and kill ’em off all at once? Not like that wouldn’t cause questions, and even taking into account that they can make people into designer suits for themselves, I don’t yet see where just the three of them are so powerful and fearsome and such that that huge military presence would not, in fact, be more powerful and fearsome than they are. They haven’t exactly called in reinforcements, as far as I can tell, either; they’ve just made a big ol’ diversion to kill off a bunch of people who, despite their “credentials” in saying “Yep, that’s an extraterrestrial”, probably don’t have any idea they existed until they showed themselves, I presume on the off-chance that the Doctor would be among them (which is kind of a biggish “if”, innit?).

    Anyway, I haven’t been able to correctly guess at the plot before–or if I have, I haven’t really cared much because of all the other neat stuff going on. Also, I assume Rose used to live with a family of rejected soap-opera extras before she gallivanted off with the Doctor =P ? “Mickey” in particular wasn’t very convincing. If he’s really been hauled in five times for questioning in connection with Rose’s apparent death, ostracized, bereft, and generally plunged into a living nightmare for a year before she suddenly reappears attached to a much older bloke in a rather alarming and apparently magic blue box, you’d think he could contrive to sound just a little bit more upset about the whole thing. As it was, you could almost believe he was reading a grocery list.

    There’re some good ideas in this–aliens working their way up into high government office to take over the world “from within”, as it were (except that these aliens haven’t yet proven themselves to be very menacing to more than one person at a time); the destroying all those people who might concievably know that they were aliens (except why bother because how would they know unless, oh let’s say they showed themselves?), but they’re not put together well, and with the whole “launch and then crash a whole big fake spaceship with fake aliens just on the slight chance that the TARDIS might make a stop right here and now so we can kill him–or better, to lure him here and basically invite trouble to our otherwise unimpeded planetary conquest” thing–well, it leaves me asking too many questions, and while sci-fi comedy usually has some holes in it, there should be enough on other fronts to distract from those, and there isn’t here.

    May I assume questions like these will be answered in the second half?

    #123542

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I can’t believe we have to wait another week till more Dr Who just so that we could see us get a crap score in Eurovision, just like we all knew we would anyway!

    #123499

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    BTW, sorry this thread is so unweidly at the moment. I’ll change the forum so it splits long threads down into pages next week.

    #123672

    performingmonkey

    > aliens working their way up into high government office to take over the world ?from within?,

    It’s a shame Russell is already reusing this idea with Saxon. Or IS he…?

    #123517

    Seb Patrick

    May I assume questions like these will be answered in the second half?

    Unfortunately, no. The second half is much, much weaker than the first. But! You get Dalek the week after that, so get ready to weep tears of joy – especially as, as a new fan, it’ll be the first time you’ve ever encountered one!

    #123518

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    Except for the Red Dwarf A-Z ^_^ . But that’s probably not a particularly in-depth introduction to everyone’s favorite pepperpot-shaped Doctor Who villains…

    #123551

    performingmonkey

    Does anyone else think the Doctor looked EVIL at the end of ’42’? Not even Eccleston threw those sort of moody looks. As for the episode itself, distinctly average IMO. It should have been way better but it felt like a rehash of previous new series episodes and the support cast were pretty bland (it would have helped if they’d had the material). Decent effects though, and an excellent Confidential afterwards featuring some model making guys, don’t know what they’ve done before…

    #123549

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    Wow.

    “World War Three” managed not only to avoid most of the questions I had from the first half, it brought up a whole host of new ones I know I’ll never figure out.

    Let’s begin at the beginning, shall we? With the Doctor proving that apparently Time Lord DNA is made of magic. Look, I already know that to the Doctor, reality is something he sort of chooses to go along with or not depending on his mood and the need for dramatic tension or comic relief. But evidently the Doctor is rubber, the fart monsters are glue, and whatever energy beams they throw at him bounces off him, where he can catch them and stick to their farty calcium-built bodies. Even ones that are halfway across London at the time. I understand if they might not have planned specifically for the Doctor himself–and here I’m giving the plot a break it probably doesn’t deserve–but you’d think they might think “Y’know, we got here, so what if someone else from another planet is here too and decides to stick his/her/its nose in our plans? What do we do if a non-human decides to stop us?” (I also love how the plot vacillates between “the Doctor can order anyone around at any time” and “the Doctor is public enemy number one” and everyone is immediately on the same page, without so much as a tiny shred of confusion in anyone’s mind even though everywhere else in England, and indeed everywhere else on the planet, is supposed to be a hairsbreadth away from chaos.)

    Also, I note that it’s mighty damned obliging of the U.N, the Royal Navy, and the world’s governments to put all their top-secret stuff about launching nuclear warheads on user-friendly Internet sites for any jumped-up l33t-speaking AOLer to hack (like, say, “Mickey the idiot”. At least the Doctor and I see eye-to-eye on that count). Not that it would be too difficult because, remember, you just have to use the same password at every prompt screen! I don’t recall what exactly the password itself was for purposes of this episode, but I’m guessing, considering the level of tech-savvy evinced so far, that it was “password”.

    By the way, was it ever adequately explained why the fart monsters were chasing around the Soap Opera Rejects in the first place? I know that in this half, it was probably ‘cos they were browsing the “launchyourownmissile.co.uk” websites (tho’ I don’t remember if that was ever made clear either), but why in the first half? Certainly at the beginning of this show, it was made clear that they didn’t know the Doctor in their “trap” from any other Joe Earthman. So did they know who Rose (and her “charmingly” stupid and one-dimensional mother) was, and decide to make the Doctor’s life difficult by threatening someone to who me is attached emotionally (oh wait, I’m not supposed to guess that yet am I oops!) , or did one of them just say “Hm…I’m bored. I’ll just go and terrorize the people iiiiinnnnnn…this flat!” No, really, I don’t remember if they actually bothered to explain this or not.

    And their “nefarious plan”. That was a hoot in classic “swatting a fly with a Chrysler” fashion. Y’know, with a bit of research into current events on Earth, they could have caused World War Three for their intergalactic “audience” much more easily than by, y’know, alerting a bunch of people on the planet to their presence and taking probably years to make certain of Earth’s leaders into skin suits to manufacture a “War of the Worlds”. All you really need to do is send a box of rude-shaped chocolates to whoever the fuck it is runs Iran along with a note signed, “A bunch of Jewish people”. I mean, come on, they should already know by now that half the nuclear-capable governments on the planet are just waiting for an excuse to nuke the other half, and were like this even before they “infiltrated” them. Or maybe the Slitheen family motto is “Do it the hard way, or not at all”.

    Anyway, “Dalek” does look awfully good, especially after this. One question: Exactly how much will Eccleston bare in this, and how long will he be flaunting his nakedidity? The idea of seeing “the ‘end’ of the Doctor, har, har” doesn’t appeal too much to me.

    #123566

    Seb Patrick

    The only problem with Dalek is that, in the shape of Bruno Langley’s Adam, it does actually feature someone who is genuinely a soap opera reject. And he’s rubbish.

    But other than that, it’s a fantabulously great episode, and it’s a crying shame that Rob Shearman hasn’t been invited back to do another episode yet.

    #123528

    performingmonkey

    I’m utterly convinced that Adam’s sole purpose is the gag at the end of The Long Game. That and the fact that he’s Davros.

    #123572

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    Has anybody else seen this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ebAAgT5_Ik

    (small spoiler from the episode Utopia)

    #123581

    performingmonkey

    The way Tennant says ‘bleeds’ in that clip is one of the things I used to hate about him but now love, I don’t know why.

    The most interesting thing here is how the Doctor sees Jack on the screen and still pulls the lever to leave. You’d think he’d be like ‘OMG it’s Captain JACK!!’ but no. Jack clinging to the Tardis is another one of those RTD moments where you can picture him laughing like a little schoolboy when writing it. The effects shot could almost be from classic Who!

    #123582

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > The most interesting thing here is how the Doctor sees Jack on the screen and still pulls the lever to leave.

    Remember Jack hasn’t seen The Doctor since he regenerated. In fact, I can’t remember is he ever told Jack he’s a Timelord.

    #123583

    performingmonkey

    > Remember Jack hasn?t seen The Doctor since he regenerated. In fact, I can?t remember is he ever told Jack he?s a Timelord.

    I’m pretty sure Jack knew. He did travel as a companion for a while, after all. And he knew about the Time War so you can assume he knows Time Lords when he sees them. Anyway, this doesn’t explain why the Doctor sees his friend (who he thought had been left behind thousands of years in the future) on the screen and doesn’t really care, or he does care and leaves regardless.

    #123586

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    It’s because Jack is secretly The Master! RTD told me this himself when he came to my house for tea and biscuits yesterday.

    #123573

    performingmonkey

    > It?s because Jack is secretly The Master!

    There could be some truth to that. Well…not that he’s The Master but that he has The Master’s Time Lord essence (whatever that is…) inside him and The Master, in the guise of Saxon, who’s body he took over Lord Voldemort style, is searching for it. That’s what I think, although I wouldn’t put it past Russell T Davies to explain Jack’s immortality by saying he has the regenerative power of the ENTIRE Time Lord race or something.

    Something else that could come into play is the two years that Jack can’t remember. What if he was The Master for that time?

    #123597

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    I hate to keep derailing this thread from discussion of current Who, but–damn. While Christopher Eccleston still isn’t quite at home to the softer, squidgier emotions, he does “intense” really, really, really breathtakingly well. And I have to say that “Dalek” was even better after the heavily convoluted and nonsensical two-parter aired before it. It was comparatively simple on its face (and yes, I know ‘simple’ is not necessarily supposed to be something immediately associated with Doctor Who) but full of some highly enjoyable character exploration. It’s a hell of an episode that can even begin to elicit from the viewer–pardon the pun–sympathy for a Dalek. More along these lines, please, and a yummy cookie or similar baked treat for the writer responsible.

    The only fly in this otherwise unblemished ointment (and isn’t there always something wrong, even in the best of these?): Van Wossname. He could have been much better cast, I think; when he’s trying to be as “intense” as the Doctor, he just comes off as shouty. A decent actor he ain’t–hell, much of the supporting cast was too busy trying to maintain their “American” accents, with varying degrees of success, to set aside much energy for acting, but it only really stuck out in the case of this character because nobody else with an “American” accent had as much to do with the plot. The Dalek was a better actor–which is, I guess, as much a testament to some very good writing as it is a comment on an actor whose lines fell flatter than the tinny monotone of the episode’s villain.

    #123598

    performingmonkey

    The quality of the series went up considerably from Dalek onwards (well, The Long Game aside, but that works as a mid-series filler episode). You can see the quality build from the episodes they shot in a row – The End Of The World, The Unquiet Dead, Dalek, Father’s Day – they obviously learned as time went on.

    #123643

    Rosti

    Thoroughly enjoying the present two parter. Not least for the mild Doctor Dwarfism (hurrah for Baxter’s illicit hooch!) and my bi-annual Jessica Hynes fix.

    #123646

    performingmonkey

    Wasn’t that a GREAT episode? Up there with the best of the best since the series returned, better (IMO) than Girl In The Fireplace and The Impossible Planet, so really it’s the best since the heady days of The Doctor Dances and Father’s Day (Cornell should be pleased that he’s penned, in my honest and humble opinion, two of the top 5 Who episodes of all-time!).

    Admit it, you shed at least a tear watching this. If you didn’t you’re just cold and you must hate Tennant (who was so so good). My only concern is that Freema was perhaps a little lost in it all. Although this was mostly the Doctor’s episode, it was pretty much to him like how Father’s Day was to Rose. But how can you complain? Sometimes I have to check the TV guide to remind myself that this is actually on on Saturday primetime and that I’m not just hallucinating during Any Cunt Will Do.

    #123623

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    No Doctor Who this week. Stupid fucking PBS pledge drives. They could’ve waited a day to start strapping the rat cage on their viewers’ faces and politely demanding money, but nooooo. They showed a Pink Floyd concert (I like Pink Floyd, but some other time) and some fucking Live Aid concert film. Oh well. I’ll get my fix by browsing Outpost Gallifrey =P .

    Oh well. At least another PBS station is showing a set by the Flaming Lips; their music’s pretty good and they give one hell of a stage show. And their lead singer reminds me slightly of Bob Dylan and Zaphod Beeblebrox at the same time, in a good way.

    #123612

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Arlene: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

    *punches Arlene in the face*

    WRONG.

    #123624

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    I tell a lie, enother PBS station (I get three, now my TV’s hooked up to the external antenna) showed another episode of Doctor Who, completely unexpected-like. I didn’t catch the name, but it involved:

    -lots and lots and lots of ucky-mucky boring rather stupid Rose crap (concerning saving her father from being hit by a car and how it Changes History and Destroys Everything, blah blah blah) about which I could not give two tiny mouse shits. Lesson learned: Adding a dead parent to their backstory does not automatically make a character “deep” or “likable”.

    -confirmation (in case anyone needed it) that Rose’s mother is an irredeemably, irritatingly, violence-invitingly dense character who, I hope, could never survive outside the protective confines of the Idiot World in which she lives

    -an ending which really oughtn’t have worked, if you think about it at all

    -the Doctor with an extra-knobbly stick up whatever a Time Lord uses for an asshole.

    edit: You ought to tell me which part of my last post (or was it this one? I was editing when you posted) I did wrong, Ian. That way I can make sure to do it again.

    #123647

    Tarka Dal

    Ha! I agree entirely, Father’s Day was mostly tosh. Last night’s episode however achieved something wonderful. It made me think “this is as good as Moffat” because it really was. If the next four episodes are all on the money it could well be the best series yet.

    #123649

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    I actually really like Father’s Day. It was the first Doctor Who I ever watched.

    And yes, yesterdays episode was absolutely, amazingly, stunningly fantastic! I love the dark side of the Doctor.

    #123650

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    God, Father’s Day is one of my favourite episodes of New Who. But it all depends on whether the emotional stuff in it affects you – if it doesn’t, then it has precious little else to offer. But it’s one of the very few episodes of New Who that always affects me – I never fail to tear up at it.

    #123631

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Hmm, editing posts moves them down the list. My ‘WRONG’ post was in reference to Arlene not liking Father’s Day. In the interests of fairness:

    Karl: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

    *punches Karl in the face*

    WRONG.

    #123632

    Tarka Dal

    “Ain’t so Bad”

    John has it spot on. It’s down to the emotional stuff. Father’s Day did nothing for me because at the time I hadn’t seen enough of Rose to care about her.

    #123627

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    I have a hard time liking Rose. Frankly, she doesn’t come off as all that much smarter than her mother, and seems like exactly the kind of person who could recite all the lyrics to every current pop hit but gets bored of books of more than twenty pages that don’t have big color pictures in them. I am emphatically not that kind of person, so I hoestly have an easier time seeing things through the Doctor’s eyes than through Rose’s.

    #123628

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    http://markmuldoon.blogspot.com/2007/06/doctor-who-appreciation-blog.html

    Not only have I learnt that “Sci-fi is crap” – but apparently, having a favourite writer is “geeky”.

    I hope they don’t pop round here, or their head will explode. Actually, on second thoughts, maybe I *do* want them to pop round here.

    #123626

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    With regards to Father’s Day – oddly enough, I think it’s the episode that probably made me care about Rose as a character. It’s easy to scoff at the dead father stuff if it doesn’t work for you, but it really did for me. Just that shot of her in tears near the beginning when she misses her chance… well, it resonated with me, put it like that. That whole situation is something I often wondered about myself.

    Rose does work as an identification character for the show for me. Someone I’m completely like as a character? No. Someone who I would want to hang around with? Absolutely not. But someone who got stuck in a dead end job and needs to realise just how wonderful the world can be, if you grab hold of it and live life? Oh yes.

    #123652

    muldoon

    Johnster! If you post a link to it here, that’s a sure way that I’ll find this place! Thanks guy.

    Love you! x

    #123653

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I must admit, I predicted you’d show up, but that kind of timescale is pretty impressive.

    #123654

    performingmonkey

    Father’s Day is definitely one of the top episodes for me. Not just for the Rose/Pete emotional stuff (which is handled extremely well, just imagine how shit it could have been) also for the way it brought something new to Who with the idea that if a time traveller fucks with his/her history in this way then there’s a price to be paid in the form of…well, a monster-of-the-week (but a very good one).

    And now, the Human Nature 2-parter makes Father’s Day an even better episode – we see the Doctor in Father’s Day wanting to help the married couple and saying ‘I’ve never had a life like that’. Paul Cornell was obviously thinking of his own book, Human Nature, when he wrote that part in Father’s Day. He certainly knows what he’s doing that Cornell.

    By the way, don’t you just love how John Smith WAS a better person than the Doctor and how they allowed us as an audience to feel a bit pissed off that the Doctor was back even though he’s the main character of the show? Tennant did this brilliantly by going into full-on Doctor mode when he returned. And then they have him being the most cold and evil he’s ever been in his ‘dealing’ with the Family of Blood (would even the 9th Doctor have gone that far?)

    Maybe Tennant’s best line delivery ever was the frightened ‘What sort of a man is that??’ He can fucking act when he wants to.

    #123619

    Jason aka Smeg4Brains

    > Maybe Tennant?s best line delivery ever was the frightened ?What sort of a man is that??? He can fucking act when he wants to.

    I was thinking the exact same but the other day my cousin said “Tennant is losing his touch” he then went on to say “David Schwimmer from Friends would be a good Doctor”….I have disowned him.

    #123630

    Tanya Jones

    G&T Admin

    >Rose does work as an identification character for the show for me. Someone I?m completely like as a character? No. Someone who I would want to hang around with? Absolutely not. But someone who got stuck in a dead end job and needs to realise just how wonderful the world can be, if you grab hold of it and live life? Oh yes.

    Also, she doesn’t seem particularly shallow in the show, IMO. As Moffat said, that line about the department store giving her ‘airs and graces’ tells you everything you need to know about Rose. She’s a brave, open-minded person who simply didn’t have the chance to develop her best side before she met the Doctor.

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