Doctor Who

[Smeg4Brains]

I’m surprised that this hasn’t already been mentioned but what did everybody think of Dr Who yesterday. Liked the introduction to Martha, wasn’t sure about the old woman using a straw to suck out the blood. I’ve got a feeling the Rhino things will come back at some point.

Topic

[Anonymous]

Well then let this be the one hundred and oneth.

[Seb Patrick]

He knows what he?s doing that guy (apart from maybe when Martha is stupidly stumbling across the stage during the number in Daleks In Manhatten).

Or when the Daleks are doing impressions of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

[mick]

Time to add pages to these boards?

[John Hoare]

Time to add pages to these boards?

Yeah. I didn’t think it’d take off this much, to be honest!

I’ll look into it tonight.

[Tarka Dal]

> Or when the Daleks are doing impressions of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

Oh come on that was fantastic!

[Anonymous]

> Subject: Re: Doctor Who: Evolution of the Daleks
> Posted by moss on 22:50 30/Apr/07 :
>
> I’ve loved each episode this series – wheras quite lot of the last series felt > vaguely disappointing to me. Evolution of the Daleks may well have huge plotholes > and been extremely derivative – but I enjoyed it far more than stuff like Tooth & > Claw.
>
> And I think I’ve figured out why: the comedy. Each episode this series (with the
> possible exception of The Shakespeare Code) has made me laugh loads. I think the
> humour so far has been far, *far* better done than in the last two series.
>
> That’s not to say that Doctor Who is all about the comedy – but when a show makes > me laugh so much, I find it very hard to dislike it. It just leaves me with a good > feeling at the end of each episode – rather than sitting there with things nagging > in my head…
>
> This message was edited on 23:51 30/Apr/07

Reposting something you’ve already posted on the notbbc forum doesn’t make it any more true! I didn’t know that you were also Moss at notbbc, John. All this time! Why not just call yourself John Hoare like your true names?

[John Hoare]

Reposting something you?ve already posted on the notbbc forum doesn?t make it any more true!

Oh, I’ve reposted some of my comments to three different forums at times, as I think EVERYONE SHOULD READ MY INCISIVE OPINIONS.

I didn?t know that you were also Moss at notbbc, John. All this time! Why not just call yourself John Hoare like your true names?

TEH LOLS

Actually, if I was registering there now, I probably would do. But everyone knows me as moss there now…

[Steve Harris]

Shock horror…
42 has been put off for a week thanks to the Eurovision song contest..Why?
I didn’t know until this morning..

[pfm]

TEH SECOND HALF OF SERIES TRAILER ‘TIS LIKE DA BEST TING EVA CHECK IT OUT, MOTHAFUCKS!

SAXON. Is all.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

So. I got to see my second episode of Doctor Who. Not bad. It would have been much better without my father in the room (Please don’t ask), but the bits of “The Unquiet Dead” that I got to enjoy weren’t bad. For one thing, I found out that, in addition to being a walking deus ex machina, the Doctor also appears to have some kind of attention deficit problem (“oh crap my companion’s been kidnapped! Let’s go and hey it’s Charles Dickens you’re like my favorite writer evar what was the one story you did anyway after that hearse!”) =P Also, this Doctor does some emotions well, but I reckon fear isn’t among them. He lights up through some bits of this episode, but some of the later scenes (like when they’ve gotten themselves trapped by those nasty gas-people), in which he’s trying to face their possible death, his acting gets a bit wooden, I think.

[pfm]

> his acting gets a bit wooden, I think.

I think it’s because they try and make it more funny than anything.

[Smeg4Brains]

Well…I think I’ve waited long enough for people to have watched The Lazarus Experiment before posting this, anybody who still hasn’t may not want to read below.
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Do you think that guy was the Master?
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OK, you can read this bit….but if you’re reading this you probably read what’s above as well….YOU FOOL!

[Jonathan Capps]

> Do you think that guy was the Master?

Yeah, this is an interesting point. I think, more likely, he’s one of Saxon’s lackeys, but if he’s actually the master dicking around with switching bodies, that could be *very* interesting…

Either way, John Simm is going to fucking ROCK in the final

[pfm]

People keep saying that the Master will only enter Saxon’s body in the finale, but that would be crap as it would mean all the Saxon references have never referred to the Master or any evil plan he might have.

[Seb Patrick]

Arlene, if those episodes are being shown in order on some network (which, with “The End of the World” followed by “The Unquiet Dead”, it sounds like), then I beg of you – please find and download “Rose” before you go any further. Otherwise you’ll be forced to sit through the pretty awful “Aliens of London” two-parter (of which only the first twenty minutes or so are any good), and you’ll be four episodes in and suddenly wondering what the fuss is about, because you won’t have had the memory of the brilliant “Rose” to counteract it.

However, you’ll then have “Dalek” immediately afterwards, and so all will be salvaged. And “The Long Game”, despite being crap, has Simon Pegg and Tamsin Greig in it. And then “Father’s Day” is brilliant. And THEN, you’ve got the “Empty Child” two-parter, which is THE BEST THING ON TELLY EVER EVER.

So, yes, what I’m saying is – even if you’re a bit underwhelmed after the next two weeks, STICK WITH IT!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I get the feeling that they are being shown in order–PBS is pretty good about showing Britcoms in their proper broadcast order.

And don’t worry–any problems I have with the story are still being at least partly made up for by my (admittedly irrational) “OMG it’s Doctor Who” excitement. So by the time I get to “Dalek”, etcetera, I’ll probably be able to view these episodes objectively =P .

[Andrew]

*mumbles something about quite enjoying Aliens of London…*

[pfm]

> *mumbles something about quite enjoying Aliens of London?*

Great moments in it –

The Doctor gets it wrong, Rose has been gone a year.
The ship over London (officially one of those ‘fuck yeah’ moments)
‘It was scared’ (Eccleston officially pwns the world)
The beautiful doctor woman otherwise known as Toshiko from Torchwood.
The ‘real’ BBC reports of the crash (if an alien ship really DID crash into the Thames they’d probably evacuate central London and shoot any news crews that tried to film what was going on)
Harriet Jones, MP for Flydale North, and no relation to Martha.
The Doctor getting all excited about UNIT and going to Downing Street ‘take me to your leader’.
The first appearance of ‘I’m sorry’ (is that in this one or World War 3?)
The first cliffhanger in New Who.

[Anonymous]

> Eccleston officially pwns the world

What? Is this a typo? He owns the world?!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

>> Eccleston officially pwns the world

>What? Is this a typo? He owns the world?!

It’s not a typo.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Aaaaaand…”Aliens of London”.

Um. So.

um. Is it okay for me not to be over-impressed by the fart mon– the Slith– …okay, the fart monsters? I like a good fart joke as much as anyone, but damn. That was just a bit stupid. And I’m not sure, but I don’t think I’m supposed to be able to guess what’s going on before the Doctor does. Well, except for the last bit, but I’m not entirely convinced of the “why” of that last bit anyway. Even accepting that there is such a thing as an “alienologist”, and that they command any professional respect at all, why gather them all up, unmask themselves (I presume simply to rub these “alienolgists'” faces in it), and kill ’em off all at once? Not like that wouldn’t cause questions, and even taking into account that they can make people into designer suits for themselves, I don’t yet see where just the three of them are so powerful and fearsome and such that that huge military presence would not, in fact, be more powerful and fearsome than they are. They haven’t exactly called in reinforcements, as far as I can tell, either; they’ve just made a big ol’ diversion to kill off a bunch of people who, despite their “credentials” in saying “Yep, that’s an extraterrestrial”, probably don’t have any idea they existed until they showed themselves, I presume on the off-chance that the Doctor would be among them (which is kind of a biggish “if”, innit?).

Anyway, I haven’t been able to correctly guess at the plot before–or if I have, I haven’t really cared much because of all the other neat stuff going on. Also, I assume Rose used to live with a family of rejected soap-opera extras before she gallivanted off with the Doctor =P ? “Mickey” in particular wasn’t very convincing. If he’s really been hauled in five times for questioning in connection with Rose’s apparent death, ostracized, bereft, and generally plunged into a living nightmare for a year before she suddenly reappears attached to a much older bloke in a rather alarming and apparently magic blue box, you’d think he could contrive to sound just a little bit more upset about the whole thing. As it was, you could almost believe he was reading a grocery list.

There’re some good ideas in this–aliens working their way up into high government office to take over the world “from within”, as it were (except that these aliens haven’t yet proven themselves to be very menacing to more than one person at a time); the destroying all those people who might concievably know that they were aliens (except why bother because how would they know unless, oh let’s say they showed themselves?), but they’re not put together well, and with the whole “launch and then crash a whole big fake spaceship with fake aliens just on the slight chance that the TARDIS might make a stop right here and now so we can kill him–or better, to lure him here and basically invite trouble to our otherwise unimpeded planetary conquest” thing–well, it leaves me asking too many questions, and while sci-fi comedy usually has some holes in it, there should be enough on other fronts to distract from those, and there isn’t here.

May I assume questions like these will be answered in the second half?

[Smeg4Brains]

I can’t believe we have to wait another week till more Dr Who just so that we could see us get a crap score in Eurovision, just like we all knew we would anyway!

[John Hoare]

BTW, sorry this thread is so unweidly at the moment. I’ll change the forum so it splits long threads down into pages next week.

[pfm]

> aliens working their way up into high government office to take over the world ?from within?,

It’s a shame Russell is already reusing this idea with Saxon. Or IS he…?

[Seb Patrick]

May I assume questions like these will be answered in the second half?

Unfortunately, no. The second half is much, much weaker than the first. But! You get Dalek the week after that, so get ready to weep tears of joy – especially as, as a new fan, it’ll be the first time you’ve ever encountered one!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Except for the Red Dwarf A-Z ^_^ . But that’s probably not a particularly in-depth introduction to everyone’s favorite pepperpot-shaped Doctor Who villains…

[pfm]

Does anyone else think the Doctor looked EVIL at the end of ’42’? Not even Eccleston threw those sort of moody looks. As for the episode itself, distinctly average IMO. It should have been way better but it felt like a rehash of previous new series episodes and the support cast were pretty bland (it would have helped if they’d had the material). Decent effects though, and an excellent Confidential afterwards featuring some model making guys, don’t know what they’ve done before…

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Wow.

“World War Three” managed not only to avoid most of the questions I had from the first half, it brought up a whole host of new ones I know I’ll never figure out.

Let’s begin at the beginning, shall we? With the Doctor proving that apparently Time Lord DNA is made of magic. Look, I already know that to the Doctor, reality is something he sort of chooses to go along with or not depending on his mood and the need for dramatic tension or comic relief. But evidently the Doctor is rubber, the fart monsters are glue, and whatever energy beams they throw at him bounces off him, where he can catch them and stick to their farty calcium-built bodies. Even ones that are halfway across London at the time. I understand if they might not have planned specifically for the Doctor himself–and here I’m giving the plot a break it probably doesn’t deserve–but you’d think they might think “Y’know, we got here, so what if someone else from another planet is here too and decides to stick his/her/its nose in our plans? What do we do if a non-human decides to stop us?” (I also love how the plot vacillates between “the Doctor can order anyone around at any time” and “the Doctor is public enemy number one” and everyone is immediately on the same page, without so much as a tiny shred of confusion in anyone’s mind even though everywhere else in England, and indeed everywhere else on the planet, is supposed to be a hairsbreadth away from chaos.)

Also, I note that it’s mighty damned obliging of the U.N, the Royal Navy, and the world’s governments to put all their top-secret stuff about launching nuclear warheads on user-friendly Internet sites for any jumped-up l33t-speaking AOLer to hack (like, say, “Mickey the idiot”. At least the Doctor and I see eye-to-eye on that count). Not that it would be too difficult because, remember, you just have to use the same password at every prompt screen! I don’t recall what exactly the password itself was for purposes of this episode, but I’m guessing, considering the level of tech-savvy evinced so far, that it was “password”.

By the way, was it ever adequately explained why the fart monsters were chasing around the Soap Opera Rejects in the first place? I know that in this half, it was probably ‘cos they were browsing the “launchyourownmissile.co.uk” websites (tho’ I don’t remember if that was ever made clear either), but why in the first half? Certainly at the beginning of this show, it was made clear that they didn’t know the Doctor in their “trap” from any other Joe Earthman. So did they know who Rose (and her “charmingly” stupid and one-dimensional mother) was, and decide to make the Doctor’s life difficult by threatening someone to who me is attached emotionally (oh wait, I’m not supposed to guess that yet am I oops!) , or did one of them just say “Hm…I’m bored. I’ll just go and terrorize the people iiiiinnnnnn…this flat!” No, really, I don’t remember if they actually bothered to explain this or not.

And their “nefarious plan”. That was a hoot in classic “swatting a fly with a Chrysler” fashion. Y’know, with a bit of research into current events on Earth, they could have caused World War Three for their intergalactic “audience” much more easily than by, y’know, alerting a bunch of people on the planet to their presence and taking probably years to make certain of Earth’s leaders into skin suits to manufacture a “War of the Worlds”. All you really need to do is send a box of rude-shaped chocolates to whoever the fuck it is runs Iran along with a note signed, “A bunch of Jewish people”. I mean, come on, they should already know by now that half the nuclear-capable governments on the planet are just waiting for an excuse to nuke the other half, and were like this even before they “infiltrated” them. Or maybe the Slitheen family motto is “Do it the hard way, or not at all”.

Anyway, “Dalek” does look awfully good, especially after this. One question: Exactly how much will Eccleston bare in this, and how long will he be flaunting his nakedidity? The idea of seeing “the ‘end’ of the Doctor, har, har” doesn’t appeal too much to me.

[Seb Patrick]

The only problem with Dalek is that, in the shape of Bruno Langley’s Adam, it does actually feature someone who is genuinely a soap opera reject. And he’s rubbish.

But other than that, it’s a fantabulously great episode, and it’s a crying shame that Rob Shearman hasn’t been invited back to do another episode yet.

[pfm]

I’m utterly convinced that Adam’s sole purpose is the gag at the end of The Long Game. That and the fact that he’s Davros.

[Smeg4Brains]

Has anybody else seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ebAAgT5_Ik

(small spoiler from the episode Utopia)

[pfm]

The way Tennant says ‘bleeds’ in that clip is one of the things I used to hate about him but now love, I don’t know why.

The most interesting thing here is how the Doctor sees Jack on the screen and still pulls the lever to leave. You’d think he’d be like ‘OMG it’s Captain JACK!!’ but no. Jack clinging to the Tardis is another one of those RTD moments where you can picture him laughing like a little schoolboy when writing it. The effects shot could almost be from classic Who!

[Smeg4Brains]

> The most interesting thing here is how the Doctor sees Jack on the screen and still pulls the lever to leave.

Remember Jack hasn’t seen The Doctor since he regenerated. In fact, I can’t remember is he ever told Jack he’s a Timelord.

[pfm]

> Remember Jack hasn?t seen The Doctor since he regenerated. In fact, I can?t remember is he ever told Jack he?s a Timelord.

I’m pretty sure Jack knew. He did travel as a companion for a while, after all. And he knew about the Time War so you can assume he knows Time Lords when he sees them. Anyway, this doesn’t explain why the Doctor sees his friend (who he thought had been left behind thousands of years in the future) on the screen and doesn’t really care, or he does care and leaves regardless.

[Smeg4Brains]

It’s because Jack is secretly The Master! RTD told me this himself when he came to my house for tea and biscuits yesterday.

[pfm]

> It?s because Jack is secretly The Master!

There could be some truth to that. Well…not that he’s The Master but that he has The Master’s Time Lord essence (whatever that is…) inside him and The Master, in the guise of Saxon, who’s body he took over Lord Voldemort style, is searching for it. That’s what I think, although I wouldn’t put it past Russell T Davies to explain Jack’s immortality by saying he has the regenerative power of the ENTIRE Time Lord race or something.

Something else that could come into play is the two years that Jack can’t remember. What if he was The Master for that time?

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I hate to keep derailing this thread from discussion of current Who, but–damn. While Christopher Eccleston still isn’t quite at home to the softer, squidgier emotions, he does “intense” really, really, really breathtakingly well. And I have to say that “Dalek” was even better after the heavily convoluted and nonsensical two-parter aired before it. It was comparatively simple on its face (and yes, I know ‘simple’ is not necessarily supposed to be something immediately associated with Doctor Who) but full of some highly enjoyable character exploration. It’s a hell of an episode that can even begin to elicit from the viewer–pardon the pun–sympathy for a Dalek. More along these lines, please, and a yummy cookie or similar baked treat for the writer responsible.

The only fly in this otherwise unblemished ointment (and isn’t there always something wrong, even in the best of these?): Van Wossname. He could have been much better cast, I think; when he’s trying to be as “intense” as the Doctor, he just comes off as shouty. A decent actor he ain’t–hell, much of the supporting cast was too busy trying to maintain their “American” accents, with varying degrees of success, to set aside much energy for acting, but it only really stuck out in the case of this character because nobody else with an “American” accent had as much to do with the plot. The Dalek was a better actor–which is, I guess, as much a testament to some very good writing as it is a comment on an actor whose lines fell flatter than the tinny monotone of the episode’s villain.

[pfm]

The quality of the series went up considerably from Dalek onwards (well, The Long Game aside, but that works as a mid-series filler episode). You can see the quality build from the episodes they shot in a row – The End Of The World, The Unquiet Dead, Dalek, Father’s Day – they obviously learned as time went on.

[Rosti]

Thoroughly enjoying the present two parter. Not least for the mild Doctor Dwarfism (hurrah for Baxter’s illicit hooch!) and my bi-annual Jessica Hynes fix.

[pfm]

Wasn’t that a GREAT episode? Up there with the best of the best since the series returned, better (IMO) than Girl In The Fireplace and The Impossible Planet, so really it’s the best since the heady days of The Doctor Dances and Father’s Day (Cornell should be pleased that he’s penned, in my honest and humble opinion, two of the top 5 Who episodes of all-time!).

Admit it, you shed at least a tear watching this. If you didn’t you’re just cold and you must hate Tennant (who was so so good). My only concern is that Freema was perhaps a little lost in it all. Although this was mostly the Doctor’s episode, it was pretty much to him like how Father’s Day was to Rose. But how can you complain? Sometimes I have to check the TV guide to remind myself that this is actually on on Saturday primetime and that I’m not just hallucinating during Any Cunt Will Do.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

No Doctor Who this week. Stupid fucking PBS pledge drives. They could’ve waited a day to start strapping the rat cage on their viewers’ faces and politely demanding money, but nooooo. They showed a Pink Floyd concert (I like Pink Floyd, but some other time) and some fucking Live Aid concert film. Oh well. I’ll get my fix by browsing Outpost Gallifrey =P .

Oh well. At least another PBS station is showing a set by the Flaming Lips; their music’s pretty good and they give one hell of a stage show. And their lead singer reminds me slightly of Bob Dylan and Zaphod Beeblebrox at the same time, in a good way.

[Ian Symes]

Arlene: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

*punches Arlene in the face*

WRONG.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I tell a lie, enother PBS station (I get three, now my TV’s hooked up to the external antenna) showed another episode of Doctor Who, completely unexpected-like. I didn’t catch the name, but it involved:

-lots and lots and lots of ucky-mucky boring rather stupid Rose crap (concerning saving her father from being hit by a car and how it Changes History and Destroys Everything, blah blah blah) about which I could not give two tiny mouse shits. Lesson learned: Adding a dead parent to their backstory does not automatically make a character “deep” or “likable”.

-confirmation (in case anyone needed it) that Rose’s mother is an irredeemably, irritatingly, violence-invitingly dense character who, I hope, could never survive outside the protective confines of the Idiot World in which she lives

-an ending which really oughtn’t have worked, if you think about it at all

-the Doctor with an extra-knobbly stick up whatever a Time Lord uses for an asshole.

edit: You ought to tell me which part of my last post (or was it this one? I was editing when you posted) I did wrong, Ian. That way I can make sure to do it again.

[Tarka Dal]

Ha! I agree entirely, Father’s Day was mostly tosh. Last night’s episode however achieved something wonderful. It made me think “this is as good as Moffat” because it really was. If the next four episodes are all on the money it could well be the best series yet.

[Smeg4Brains]

I actually really like Father’s Day. It was the first Doctor Who I ever watched.

And yes, yesterdays episode was absolutely, amazingly, stunningly fantastic! I love the dark side of the Doctor.

[John Hoare]

God, Father’s Day is one of my favourite episodes of New Who. But it all depends on whether the emotional stuff in it affects you – if it doesn’t, then it has precious little else to offer. But it’s one of the very few episodes of New Who that always affects me – I never fail to tear up at it.

[Ian Symes]

Hmm, editing posts moves them down the list. My ‘WRONG’ post was in reference to Arlene not liking Father’s Day. In the interests of fairness:

Karl: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

*punches Karl in the face*

WRONG.

[Tarka Dal]

“Ain’t so Bad”

John has it spot on. It’s down to the emotional stuff. Father’s Day did nothing for me because at the time I hadn’t seen enough of Rose to care about her.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I have a hard time liking Rose. Frankly, she doesn’t come off as all that much smarter than her mother, and seems like exactly the kind of person who could recite all the lyrics to every current pop hit but gets bored of books of more than twenty pages that don’t have big color pictures in them. I am emphatically not that kind of person, so I hoestly have an easier time seeing things through the Doctor’s eyes than through Rose’s.

[John Hoare]

http://markmuldoon.blogspot.com/2007/06/doctor-who-appreciation-blog.html

Not only have I learnt that “Sci-fi is crap” – but apparently, having a favourite writer is “geeky”.

I hope they don’t pop round here, or their head will explode. Actually, on second thoughts, maybe I *do* want them to pop round here.

[Author]

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