Does Doug want to write TV Dwarf again?

[SkyAndSun]

I get the impression Doug Naylor really wants to make a movie. The style of BTE reinforces this. It also seems to be the style he is most suited to.

I’m wondering – if Dave, or the BBC, ask him to write a new series, will he want to or be able to? Or will he hold out hoping for the movie money?

Alternatively, if RD is to return to TV, maybe he could negotiate a format change – 40 or 50 minute episodes, like an episode of Star Trek or The Sopranos, that last an hour with adverts.

[Turk Thrust]

I think the movie obsession will see Doug attempting to get that made in some way after this. It might happen if the budget is significantly less than what was demanded before.

I do wonder whether, having worked with so many people who gave their services so cheaply, Doug regrets not taking the 6m he was offered a few years ago…

[si]

Oh no. No real format change. 40 minutes on Dave (ie a BBC half hour with ads) is the best way, I think.

[SkyAndSun]

But I think longer episodes would suit the way Doug likes to write. Stcom style Doug Naylor Dwarf isn’t that good – see series VIII.

I think if there’s going to be more RD it needs to happen quickly, ride the momentum. And if it’s on TV I’d be in favour of longer, more dramatic episodes, as that’s where Doug seems to write best. That is, assuming Rob Grant doesn’t return.

[hummingbird]

I’m all for longer eps. I’d like to see 40-45 minute eps, which, including ads, would fill an hour long slot. Many TV shows fit this pattern and it’s easy for scheduling.

[ChrisM]

In Doug’s interview he spoke of doing a film, then coming back for a ninth series, then perhaps another film.

So, yes, I think maybe he hasn’t given up on the film. But it seems he always intended to return to TV.

[Carlito]

He’s changed his tune because around the time of series VIII, he (and the cast) were saying that Red Dwarf on TV was history… in its ‘6/8 episode series’ format, at the very least. It was ALL about the movie.

To contradict that, I also recently read a Doug interview from more or less the same period of time in which he said that, upon completion of the film, they would make a new series every 2 years, with completely new writers and that he would step down as writer to executive produce only. Obviously re-commissioning wasn’t an issue then, because he said the BBC had specifically asked him for a new series every 2 years. (Maybe their refusal to bring it back is a reaction to his deciding to focus on the film and not produce new episodes. Maybe it was a case of “oh, NOW you want to make more, eh? well, fuck you!”)

So when even Doug is contradicting himself on the matter, how can anyone really say decisively whether Dwarf was EVER due to produce a series IX at the time of completing series VIII?

Just glad to see it back; even if there are no more after BtE, Red Dwarf now has the chance to go out with a bang rather than whimper.

[Turk Thrust]

I`ve never heard that before. Where did you read the interview? Thank Christ that they never just brought in hired hands to write the show…although I do think that Doug needs to work with somebody else if the show continues. Even if it is just a strong script editor with sound judgment. Can`t remember the name of the woman who worked on the specials but she can`t have been up to the task imo.

[Carlito]

I thought Andrew Ellard was involved in the script editing on the new shows?

[Turk Thrust]

Another name was listed as script supervisor I think.

[Dax101]

i remember in the fanclub magazine in 2001 doug saying he just wanted to concentrate on movies of red dwarf, and leave the tv series for now and maybe continue it in graphic novels or something

which is suprising cus of the recent dave interview with him he says he wanted to make a movie, then another series and then more movies

[Andrew]

> Another name was listed as script supervisor I think.

Script supervisor is a practical job – it’s about tracking the changes, logging the continuity, the takes, etc. I was on associate producer, one of the main parts of which was being a ‘script consultant/editor’ to Doug, a creative voice, as we went through drafts and developed the screenplay.

[Turk Thrust]

Well this genuinely isn`t meant to be personal towards anyone but I think that one of the things that Rob brought to the partnership was to be very firm on quality control (as I`m sure Doug could be as well sometimes). Doug basically says this on the DVDs when he sayd that Rob always said, `we can come up with something better` even when deadlines were tight.

I think that throughout Doug`s tenure as the guy running the show he has missed that. I think there are lots of good ideas in Doug`s solo stuff but there are also some terrible things which shouldn`t have made it to the screen. Doug being the director has probably only exacerbated that problem.

If more Dwarf eps are ever made then I hope that Doug would consider bringing someone else in who has a really big pedigree who can look at things from a dispassionate outsider`s point of view and separate the wheat from the chaff.

[SkyAndSun]

I can’t imagine how anyone could write a new series on their own. There’s a possibility Rob might come back – aside from that, I’m not sure how they’d deal with a new series.

I maintain that a more dramatic, longer episode format might be best, especially if Doug were at the helm – this BTE style definitely suits him.

Anyway, just rambling.

[Carlito]

To me, the script was fine. Very funny in parts, a good balance between pleasing long time fans without alienating new viewers… only gripe was that maybe some of the dialogue and gags were still tailored a little towards a studio audience when there wasn’t one, but it’s Red Dwarf style humour and we all know what happens when they try to change the format of the comedy.

I know we’ve only seen one part so far, but good job Doug! And good job Andrew!

[Dax101]

maybe we should start a petition to get rob grant back, maybe this is why every solo red dwarf doug has done has always had a lil something missing

[Mr Flibble]

Why does everyone think Rob wants to come back? I am more than sure that if he wanted to, he could and would.

He evidently doesn’t, so he hasn’t. It’s great that he got involved in Bodysnatcher, but that doesn’t mean he’s coming back for any more than that!

[Richey]

I want them to give up on the movie idea and do a new series of 6 half an hour sci-fi comedy episodes. Because that’s how Red Dwarf works best. But I seem to be in the minority these days. Everyone else seems to want Red Dwarf to become the new Battlestar Galactica or something.

[JamesTC]

I don’t care what form Red Dwarf is in so long as it returns.

[ChrisM]

I agree.

If they commission a new series, I don’t think it would be a bad idea if Doug brought in other writers much like other shows too. He’d have overall creative control of course, even do most of the writing.

I can understand him not wishing to do that though. (And it’s no guarantee it’ll be good as other writers were involved in series VII. Which I happened to like, actually, but many do not.)

Then again, despite some reservations, I liked episode 1 of BTE and for all I know at this point the rest could be a great ride.

[Richey]

> I don?t care what form Red Dwarf is in so long as it returns.

This is the attitude I don’t get. Red Dwarf as pure drama seems to be an idea so many fans are perfectly happy with. Has everyone forgotten WHY Red Dwarf was so great? Why it’s so special to us all? Because it took all the best elements of sci fi and then created original and hillarious comedy out of them, whilst leaving breathing room for a bit of drama along the way. Series IV, V and VI best demonstrate this, even though the early series have examples also. VII was too much drama and subsequently didn’t work. VIII went back to pure comedy but had no decent storylines and no decent jokes. So wouldn’t going back to the spirit of IV, V and VI be the best future for Dwarf?

[ChrisM]

But I seem to be in the minority these days. Everyone else seems to want Red Dwarf to become the new Battlestar Galactica or something.

Nah, there’s plenty who want what we had before. I find the BSG comment funny for some reason. (And I liked it!) Just imagining Dwarf going all serious and angsty.

[Richey]

> Nah, there?s plenty who want what we had before. I find the BSG comment funny for some reason. (And I liked it!) Just imagining Dwarf going all serious and angsty.

I’m sure BSG is a good show (never watched the new one) but it’s a sci fi drama and Red Dwarf is a sci fi comedy. All I’m saying mate is that it baffles me why so many fans want the show to become sci fi drama when that’s not what the show was ever meant to be. In my naivety, I’d have thought the hardcore Red Dwarf fan would want the show to remain a comedy as that’s the show they’ve always known and loved.

[Richey]

Right, I’m orf to get settled down for Part 2. Fingers crossed we’ll get a few more laughs tonight.

[Tarka Dal]

> Why it?s so special to us all? Because it took all the best elements of sci fi and then created original and hillarious comedy out of them, whilst leaving breathing room for a bit of drama along the way.

Yes and no. That’s why it’s so special TO YOU. There are plenty of people out there who love the novels, perhaps even more so than the TV series. They can accept Red Dwarf in a different format, conveyed in a different tone and still love it.

> Series IV, V and VI best demonstrate this, even though the early series have examples also. VII was too much drama and subsequently didn?t work. VIII went back to pure comedy but had no decent storylines and no decent jokes. So wouldn?t going back to the spirit of IV, V and VI be the best future for Dwarf?

4-6 are Rob and Doug creations. Who is to say that Doug alone can create 4-6 style episodes? The evidence of the 17 Doug Naylor episodes we’ve had so far suggests that’s an impossibility and therefore it’s pointless arguing for it.

Additionally, there’s an argument that the strength of the series was that it consistently kept evolving and breaking new ground. This is in evidence across all of the first six series.

Rob had grown tired of Dwarf after the sixth series. Doug has been pretty consistent that his primary interest in Red Dwarf was taking it forward into a movie. Perhaps he believed the showed had gone as far as it could go in it’s current format?

I’m absolutely not against the style of 4-6. Most of my favourite episodes fall in those series, much like most fans I would expect. However the past, is just that. You’re talking about episodes filmed almost twenty years ago and with a different creative team.

At the end of the day Doug Naylor Dwarf and our options in terms of style would appear to be S7 or S8. It’s really down to whether as a fan of the old Dwarf you can still get on board with it’s new format of quirky sci-fi and comedy, as opposed to the sit-com based stylings of Dwarf past.

[ChrisM]

All I?m saying mate is that it baffles me why so many fans want the show to become sci fi drama when that?s not what the show was ever meant to be. In my naivety, I?d have thought the hardcore Red Dwarf fan would want the show to remain a comedy as that?s the show they?ve always known and loved.

S’ok, I understood what you meant, it just gave me a funny mental image. (That wasn’t a criticism of you though.)

I hope they keep the comedy too. Then again the sci-fi drama and comedy aren’t mutually exclusive, as series V and VI proved. (And I’d say VII too, but many would disagree with me there.) If it’s a gentler paced kind of comedy, I don’t mind that either (but some woofers would be nice.

[Richey]

> It?s really down to whether as a fan of the old Dwarf you can still get on board with it?s new format of quirky sci-fi and comedy, as opposed to the sit-com based stylings of Dwarf past.

Quirky sci fi comedy is fine by me sir – but there doesn’t appear to be any comedy. This is my problem. This is the problem I’ve brought up in every single other thread and discussion on the new episodes. I want Red Dwarf to make me laugh. Series I-VI made me laugh. Some of series VII made me laugh. None of series VIII made me laugh. So I want new Red Dwarf to make me laugh. I really don’t know how many other ways I can say this before people start to understand that I’m not a ‘hater’, I’m not knocking the visual look of the new shows (which I think is smashing) and I’m not against the show evolving. I just don’t want a Red Dwarf drama. I want the quirky sci fi COMEDY, please.

As for your comments about the books mate – I adore the books, each one of them. But to me they’re seperate from the show. They’re a different medium and as such can include a different style. The show turning into the style of the books though is not something I ever felt was a good idea. And based on BTE so far, I stand by that opinion.

[Tarka Dal]

Yeah sorry if I came on a bit heavy.

My point about the books was they are seperate as you say. That’s a logic that I’m also increasingly applying to Doug-era eps.

I appreciate what you mean about the style changing, but I honestly don’t see how given the 18 episodes we have now seen how you can expect anything else. Doug simply doesn’t seem capable of the series 4-6 stuff that you’re seeking.

[Richey]

> Yeah sorry if I came on a bit heavy.

No worries mate. You were just being enthusiastic about the subject matter. I like that in conversations :)

> My point about the books was they are seperate as you say. That?s a logic that I?m also increasingly applying to Doug-era eps.

I’ll agree that it seems to be increasingly the case that Doug writes episodes like he wrote ‘Last Human’.

> Doug simply doesn?t seem capable of the series 4-6 stuff that you?re seeking.

By that I get the feeling you’re saying ‘He can write sci-fi plots as good as 4-6, but he can’t write jokes that good’. In which case, maybe it really is time to let Red Dwarf die so that Doug Naylor can go and write some sci-fi books or even films. If he can’t write comedy anymore, it’s time to pack Red Dwarf in because it is and has always been a comedy show. No comedy, no show. You can’t just take out the comedy and say ‘Oh, it was a stylistic change’. It’s a comedy show! If other comedy shows scrapped the comedy and became dramas, people would be like WTF?! I don’t accept that Red Dwarf is a special case.

[Tarka Dal]

I think that’s it entirely. He can’t do Rob n’ Doug style sci-fi comedy. He can do incredibly great plots (Tikka) and Episode 2 pulled out some great gags “Science Fiction… it’s all bollocks isn’t it?”. Now a lot of the best gags didn’t feel like RD gags. However some people do appear to have loved it and can get on with this non 4-6 style Dwarf. I’m a bit like you, I’m not sure if I can and am still question whether I’d stay interested in such a show. However at the moment I’m suitably impressed and intrigued that I’m not looking beyond tomorrow’s episode.

[Richey]

I’ll be tuning in for Part 3 – I’ve got to know now how it finishes. But that’s simply plot intrigue, I’m not expecting any humour now. And that makes me very sad…just thinking of Red Dwarf without jokes makes me sad. This was the show that, alongside Monty Python’s Flying Circus and Blackadder, defined what comedy was for me. I first started watching Red Dwarf when I was 10 years old and now I’m 25 years old. This was one of the most important comedy shows in the world to me. And it’s just a crying shame that, if this is to remain the blueprint for any future Red Dwarf, it will no longer represent that for me.

So yeah…I’ll be watching Part 3. But last night I was looking forward to Part 2. The only thing I’m looking forward to tomorrow is a roast lamb dinner.

[Pete Part Three]

I love you Richey and I want to have your babies.

[thomasaevans]

Richey, how can you say there was NO comedy in these episodes? I really want to understand.

[hummingbird]

I can understand some people being unhappy because it’s different from old Dwarf, and because they expected and wanted something in that style. But I don’t know how anyone can say that BtE is not funny, or at the very least immensely entertaining.

[Pete Part Three]

>But I don?t know how anyone can say that BtE is not funny, or at the very least immensely entertaining.

I’d agree it’s entertaining and I want to see how it ends but, aside from a couple of moments, I don’t find it particularly funny. So it fails as a comedy show for me.

I think Richey is incorrect to say that there’s “no comedy”. There are plenty of bits that are supposed to make me laugh. They’re just not succeeding.

[Dessie]

I thought the new episodes were really funny. I laughed at most of the jokes, a few didn’t quite work for me but i don’t think every joke can work for everyone. For me the balance of comedy and drama was spot on and both were very strong.

[Richey]

> I think Richey is incorrect to say that there?s ?no comedy?. There are plenty of bits that are supposed to make me laugh. They?re just not succeeding.

This. Apologies for my poor wording once again. This is what I meant, but I didn’t say it properly.

[Author]

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