Let's argue about Parallel Universe

[Bexley Heath]

I rewatched it yesterday and I was surprised by how strong an episode I still think it is, despite the general opinion that it’s a bit dodgy and sexist. The themes are a little simplistic, sure, but it’s pretty nicely done for a half-hour satirical prod at gender-based double standards.

Someone fill me in on why I should actually find it cringeworthy and mildly offensive? I’d genuinely like to know what it is I’m missing :)

Topic

[ori-STUDFARM]

You are aware that we are all fans of the show around here?

Well, apart from John Hoare…

[ori-STUDFARM]

Sorry, I forgot to include a smiley to let you all know I was no serious and was only joking. Having never actually spoken to John, I wouldn’t want him to think I was having a serious dig.

[si]

I think it’s a fine ep, but still my least fave of series two. I’ve no problems with sexism, great performances from the guest cast (though I’m not a fan of the Dog). No, there’s just something about it that’s just not as good. It feels very much like an end of term show.

[Claire]

I’m a big fan of this ep. I loved it when I first caught it on a repeat run and still did when I rewatched it for the Silver Survey. In fact I ended up placing it in my top 10 rather than top 20 as I originally intended.

I’m female (in case it’s not obvious from my username) and I don’t find it sexist. It’s clear the joke is supposed to be on Dave and Arnold and their lack of self-awareness. If I’m going to pick a fault, it would be that Deb’s reaction to Dave’s pregnancy doesn’t seem quite right. It’s supposed to mirror what Dave’s would be and I don’t see him reacting quite that casually.

But it doesn’t spoil the ep for me. And I haven’t even mentioned “Tongue Tied”. Never fails to make me smile. :) And the great performances from Suzanne Bertish and Angela Bruce.

[MANI506]

I fucking LOVED Tongue Tied when I first got the Byte Two VHS in 1992. I love cheesy 80s pop anyway but that rocked my world when I was 12. I even sent off for a cassette of the full version from Better Than Life. It is a great great song.

The episode’s pretty good as well. Totty, totty, totty. ‘Are you a man or a munchkin?’ Great stuff!

[HelloMabel]

When Lister, Rimmer and Cat board the parallel Red Dwarf, somebody’s coat falls on the floor in the airlock. And they NEVER pick it up, no matter how loudly I yell at them.

If they would’ve just picked up the damn coat, all time #1 episode.

(not really)

[Ridley]

Was just thinking t’other day that if the baby skutters had been done post-VI, people may have defecated all over it.

[clem]

It was the first episode I saw so it’ll always have a bit of a special place in my heart. My only problem with it are the few slightly jarring moments where Deb and Arlene don’t ring true as female Lister and Rimmer equivalents. I don’t find any of it offensive though. The guest cast are very good, including the Dog.

[anniescribe]

I sort of wonder as their opposites, if some of the women’s behavior was supposed to be opposite too. Dave wouldn’t have been so callous about a baby (obviously, as we can see later in Dear Dave) as was Deb; likewise, Rimmer wouldn’t have been nearly that forward in taking the initiative to jump a woman as was Arlene.

[Phil]

>Was just thinking t’other day that if the baby skutters had been done post-VI, people may have defecated all over it.

I wonder how the Dog would have been received post-VI. (Or post VII I guess…I didn’t really have a problem with broad guest characters in VII. I even liked Epideme!)

I don’t know why, but I enjoy the silliness of the character there in a way that I prrrrobably wouldn’t have later on. Maybe the silliness in in check in some kind of way that I can’t express right now. Or maybe I’m just a hypocritical pile of human garbage.

[Ridley]

I sort of wonder as their opposites, if some of the women’s behavior was supposed to be opposite too.

Against the intent of the “female equivalent” line, no? Perhaps if I’d started the series with I or II the female opposites’ personalities wouldn’t seem as off to me.

Would have been better if Arlene’s pushiness didn’t show itself until the disco scene. Say both Rimmers are into each other until Arlene (ideally in an admiral’s uniform) tries the hypnosis. Or not. I’m just a sarcastic guy who reworks other people’s material for his own posts.

Maybe the silliness in in check in some kind of way that I can’t express right now.

Pretty sure I would have hated Rimmer holding Hollister’s polaroid in the movie but I’m fine with Rimmer and Jeordie Gesus. Or maybe I’m just a hypocritical pile of human garbage.

[Pecospete666]

If you enjoyed it who gives a fuck what the Sheepeople think! They are all going to be mutton! Bah,bah,bah

[peas_and_corn]

…I see.

[Ben Paddon]

I actually wrote about Parallel Universe for my AS/A Media Studies course in college. We were studying Gender Representation in British Sitcom, and it seemed like a good episode to write about.

[Bexley Heath]

Fair do’s. Agree that the characterisation of fem!Lister-and-Rimmer is slightly off, which is kind of bizarre when you think they’re supposed to be exactly the same as regular Lister and Rimmer. That really would speak volumes regarding Rob and Doug’s, uhm, difficulties in writing decent female characters…

I was just intrigued since the Silver Survey results article described it as having “dodgy sexual politics”, and even the writers themselves have said something about it being a bit “adolescent” and that they would maybe have done it differently these days.

Incidentally, I don’t think I’d registered before that in place of the inflatable banana, the fem!crew have giant furry dice. Like most of the episode, a bit broad-brush but I liked it. I’d never thought of the inflatable banana as phallic before, but I will now.

[Pete Part Three]

> writers themselves have said something about it being a bit “adolescent” and that they would maybe have done it differently these days.

Irene says no.

[HelloMabel]

>We were studying Gender Representation in British Sitcom,

Do you remember which show held up to scrutiny the best?

>Agree that the characterisation of fem!Lister-and-Rimmer is slightly off, which is kind of bizarre when you think they’re supposed to be exactly the same as regular Lister and Rimmer.

Since every decision is played out in an infinite number of parallel universes, maybe this PU had other differences than just being the female equivalent universe?

I believe Dave wouldn’t have been as callous toward Deb if he had gotten her pregnant, as she was towards him. (And “Dear Dave” hasn’t changed my mind about this.)

[Ian Symes]

The main problem is Arlene trying to rape Arnold. Arnold wouldn’t do that to any woman – even if he wanted to, he simply wouldn’t be capable.

[Pete Part Three]

Rimmer’s sleaziness at the beginning bothers me too as it’s clearly there to justify Arlene’s behaviour later on. Rimmer doesn’t understand women, but trying to hypnotise them seems a bit off.

It was mentioned in a recent Dwarfcast how, at the beginning of the Timeslides, the depressed Lister stuff (obviously seeded to influence his later choices) is at odds with his character, however, I find Rimmer’s attitude at the beginning of Parallel Universe more jarring.

And it’s *still* not sleazy enough to compare to Arlene’s techniques. The leg jiggling and the stilted conversation, I love. Then it’s a disaster of characterisation for Arlene – and, as a result, Arnold.

The very best episodes are ones where a fantastic story idea tells us more about the characters. Parallel Universe has a fantastic story idea but bodges it when it tries to tell us anything about Rimmer.

[srmcd1]

Maybe it would’ve been better to see Arnold and Arlene instead trying to play Risk together, only they keep cheating each other.

[takerdemon]

I simply cannot hate anything that features a prop as shit as the Holly Hop Drive!

Worst on screen prop in Dwarf history?

[si]

It’s *supposed* to be shit. That’s the joke.

Sidenote – I like the title of this thread. “Let’s argue about…” Let’s have one for every episode. “Let’s argue about Pete part two”. Opening post – ‘It’s shit’. First reply – “No it’s…well, yes, it is, you’re right.” END OF THREAD.

[Pete Part Three]

That’s a fantastic prop. The script says “a box with stop and start on it”. I think they nailed it.

[takerdemon]

Si – that’s what I mean! The thought process behind putting a big cardboard box in as a major plot device just for the hell of it. Genius! I was trying to rack my brains on whether they ever topped it (intentionally or not) in later episodes.

I must say the version of the sci-scan in back to earth is also wonderfully shit especially the old school ‘bit crap’ display!

[ChrisM]

>The main problem is Arlene trying to rape Arnold. Arnold wouldn’t do that to any woman – even if he wanted to, he simply wouldn’t be capable.

Well, she was implementing a technique that he himself had supposedly used, although that was arguably a bit dodgy too. (Mind you this is also the man who apparently had his way with McGruder after she was concussed. Not that I particularly want to open THAT can of worms again.* Sometimes a joke is just a joke and shouldn’t be interpreted any other way.)

That being said, she was much more full on than he would ever be. I’d say ‘rape’ is a bit strong though. She did leave him alone when he said no. Eventually. When Lister turned up. Okay, I’m not really doing a good job of defending her case am I? :)

*Referring here to another thread which resulted in a bit of an argument. I forget if it was here or on the official site forum.

[ChrisM]

And I edited my post and it vanished.
Meh. I can’t be bothered repeating myself.

Just thought I’d mention it as after the edit it appeared by itself without the other posts. There might be a post lurking all alone out there.. (more or less…)

[Jonathan Capps]

Sorry, Chris. There seems to be a problem with people editing comments and the system orphaning them from the threads. All fixed now, but I’ll probably have to turn off editing for a bit while I figure it out.

CARRY ON.

[Phil]

>Mind you this is also the man who apparently had his way with McGruder after she was concussed.

That NEVER occurred to me before. :-O

Sorry. I know you said you didn’t want to open that can of worms but I just wanted to point out that, somehow, that never actually registered with me as…well, as what it really is.

Huh.

[Claire]

@ Phil – Yes, it’s a nasty shock when you realise that it can be looked at in that light. There was a lengthy thread about it on TOS.

I always thought that McGruder must have been discharged from the medibay by a doctor and was therefore sufficiently “with it” to know what she was doing. Just my personal opinion.

Or if you prefer, you can accept the “Last Human” retcon.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Well, it served her right for being concussed.

Rimmer’s thoughts on the subject. Not mine.

[Author]

Replies