Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Jenuall]

In The Inquisitor Holly locks down the ship and sounds the alarm when Lister and Kryten try to pass through a door and are unable to identify themselves as members of the crew. This seems a lot more organised and/or sane than some of her behaviour we’ve seen up to this point. Sure we’ve had invaders and/or other unexpected people on board before and Holly never seemed to give that much of a shit.

Perhaps the Inquisitor’s act of replacing Lister and Kryten did actually have some benefit and in this timeline Holly is still a bit more competent!

[tombow]

I once innocently asked on Reddit why American Youtubers all say “troll” to rhyme with “role” (I always think of it just rhyming with doll/toll), and some people got really angry and bit my head off, saying that I was cunningly “trolling them about the word troll” because everyone knows it’s pronounced “trole” and I was apparently stupidly trying to annoy them. I genuinely though “trole” was some funny meme-like mis-pronunciation.

[Ben Saunders]

I once innocently asked on Reddit why American Youtubers all say “troll” to rhyme with “role” (I always think of it just rhyming with doll/toll), and some people got really angry and bit my head off, saying that I was cunningly “trolling them about the word troll” because everyone knows it’s pronounced “trole” and I was apparently stupidly trying to annoy them. I genuinely though “trole” was some funny meme-like mis-pronunciation.

I genuinely have no idea what you’re saying, troll and role and roll and doll and toll are all the same sound. What accent do you speak in?

[Dave]

[Jenuall]

I think we’re entering into accent/class distinction territory here.

[si]

At least we all know how to pronounce scone.

[Podey]

I once innocently asked on Reddit why American Youtubers all say “troll” to rhyme with “role” (I always think of it just rhyming with doll/toll), and some people got really angry and bit my head off, saying that I was cunningly “trolling them about the word troll” because everyone knows it’s pronounced “trole” and I was apparently stupidly trying to annoy them. I genuinely thought “trole” was some funny meme-like mis-pronunciation.

I do consume way more American podcasts etc than British so maybe that’s where I picked it up.

[Ben Saunders]

Someone needs to record themselves saying these words to prove to me there’s a distinction

[Rushy]

Troll in British English = “Trohl”

Troll in American English: “Trole”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

As a 38 year old Brit I do not recognise trohl 

troll rhymes with, well roll, role, bowl, dole, doll, coal, mole 

[Dave]

troll rhymes with, well

Outrageous claim.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[Ben Saunders]

What an absolute trollup.

[Warbodog]

My main one is that I pronounce International Debris’ name differently in my head (day-bree, like Lister says) than they do when reading it out on the DwarfCasts, which I imagine is the American way.

[Technopeasant]

How do you pronounce International though?

[Moonlight]

Wait until I tell everyone how Moonlight is pronounced in America.

[International Debris]

As a 38 year old Brit I do not recognise trohl 
troll rhymes with, well roll, role, bowl, dole, doll, coal, mole 

I’m sorry, you pronounce dole and doll the same?! I don’t recall ever hearing that.

One of the genuine reasons I changed my artist name from International Debris is that I don’t know how to pronounce debris. I’ve heard several over the years (DEB-ree, DAY-bree, de-BREE), and they all feel wrong to me.

So I went with a made up word that people sometimes mispronounce instead.

[Jenuall]

[loadoftottnumb]

I say ‘doll’ like ‘dole’ but I think it’s laziness, as I pronounce ‘dolly’ to rhyme with ‘brolly’. 

Let’s not get started on ‘scone’. 

[Ben Saunders]

Doll rhymes with ball. Dolly and brolly do indeed rhyme. 

[tombow]

I actually did find a handful of UK clips about trolls in the news, and a clip from the discworld games, to prove it is trohl

[Jenuall]

I mean, as mentioned previously this is an accent/region/class distinction scenario – there isn’t a right and wrong. You can’t prove something that varies!

[Flap Jack]

I’ll trust that Ben’s rhymes work in a Scottish accent, but written down they don’t compute in my brain.

To me, “troll” 100% rhymes with “mole”, and I have heard other English people pronounce it to rhyme with “doll” but it just doesn’t sound right. In the word “trolley”, sure, but not otherwise. I certainly don’t particularly associate the “trole” pronunciation with America.

But the real mystery is, what does this have to do with Red Dwarf? Maybe going off topic was the real trohl all long.

[International Debris]

Can someone give me evidence of ‘doll’ being pronounce ‘dole’, so I can comprehend this? Thanks.

[Dave]

Can someone give me evidence of ‘doll’ being pronounce ‘dole’, so I can comprehend this?

I assume it’s more ‘dole’ being pronounced ‘doll’. Like “the dole queue”.

[International Debris]

Not from the comments so far:

I once innocently asked on Reddit why American Youtubers all say “troll”
to rhyme with “role” (I always think of it just rhyming with doll/toll)

troll rhymes with, well roll, role, bowl, dole, doll, coal, mole 

I say ‘doll’ like ‘dole’ but I think it’s laziness, as I pronounce ‘dolly’ to rhyme with ‘brolly’. 

[Flap Jack]

This is like finding out that a large minority of English speakers genuinely do say “pot-ah-to”.

[Dave]

[Ben Saunders]

Very funny image, but why is the text cut off at the top? I need to know.

[Dave]

Oh that was just where I clumsily pasted Rimmer back over the sign.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Can someone give me evidence of ‘doll’ being pronounce ‘dole’, so I can comprehend this? Thanks.

Ping me on discord and I’ll do you a voice note

[tombow]

I have a Southern English friend who’s always said “trole”, but I just thought she was being quirky. Pre internet culture, when would we have heard the word “troll” in media anyway? Discworld audio books? Any famous fantasy films feature someone mentioning a troll?

[tombow]

40 secs – “they have a cave trowle”

[Warbodog]

We had one of these, though my mind goes to the Three Billy Goats Gruff one.

[tombow]

TROWEL!!

[Podey]

This is like finding out that a large minority of English speakers genuinely do say “pot-ah-to”.

This is like me finding out last week that a large number of British people call these the products in this photo “biscuits” and not “chocolate bars”.

[Jenuall]

40 secs – “they have a cave trowle”

This is definitely closer to the hard “tr-oll” than the softer, more drawn out “tr-ole”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This is like finding out that a large minority of English speakers genuinely do say “pot-ah-to”.

This is like me finding out last week that a large number of British people call these the products in this photo “biscuits” and not “chocolate bars”.

They are arguably chocolate coated biscuits more so than chocolate bars 

[Podey]

Surely a KitKat/Twix/Toffee Crisp is something you consider when treating yourself to a chocolate bar, though? To me a chocolate bar is an outer layer of chocolate with ANY filling be it caramel, honeycomb or biscuit etc.

I think that’s what’s made the association in my mind – biscuits and chocolate bars are two very different types of snacks that you have under very different circumstances and the above mostly all fall into the “when I’d have a chocolate bar” category.

I should note part of the discomfort at that realisation is the realisation that the other half of the country are probably right, not least because they’re in the biscuit aisle…!

[tombow]

what do you call the full fledged Mars, Snickers etc? Mega-bars?

[Podey]

All just chocolate bars, I’ve always considered them the same category as yer KitKats etc.

[Moonlight]

[Jenuall]

There definitely is a spectrum that runs from “biscuit” to “chocolate bar” and some of the things in consideration here and from that picture do, in my opinion, start to drift from pure chocolate bar territory.

A Penguin or a Rocky is definitely something that stands in a different category to the likes of Mars or Snickers. I’d put a penguin in my kids lunchbox but I wouldn’t stick a Mars bar in there for example. They definitely aren’t just biscuits (you wouldn’t put them in the biscuit tin/jar for a start!) but neither would I consider them a full chocolate bar.

Caramel Wafers and/or Blue Riband are what your Nan would put out on a tray when you went around for a visit. Posher than a basic biscuit like a custard cream or bourbon but not quite as exciting as someone giving you a Twix.

[gerrydelasel]

[tombow]

meanwhile in reddit-land…

[Technopeasant]

Checks the amount of replies in this thread since last night…

Are you trohling me? 

[Podey]

It really takes the C̶h̶o̶c̶o̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ biscuit. 

[Technopeasant]

[Warbodog]

As you can see, the dog was really, really, really, really, really thrilled to meet him.

[Ben Saunders]

I have a Southern English friend who’s always said “trole”, but I just thought she was being quirky. Pre internet culture, when would we have heard the word “troll” in media anyway? Discworld audio books? Any famous fantasy films feature someone mentioning a troll?

[Author]

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