Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Pete Part Three]

The Inquisitor can’t make up its mind what it is. Enig is presented as a bootstrap paradox, but since the whole story is about being able to rewrite timelines, the plot is basically at war with itself. Kryten believes he has no free will when he travels back in time so recites his lines like a script. This is contrary to the entire point of the plot. The ending is a load of bobbins for that reason. Still, it’s a laugh, isn’t it?

[Pete Part Three]

I prefer to think of Heaven Sent as just The Doctor on some really potent acid.

[Ridley]

#Lazy Whovian scum, lazy Whovian scum, their hearts are dead and their brains are numb, lazy lying Whovian scum, lazy lying Whovian scum.

[Warbodog]

Isn’t Kryten repeating what his past self said because he knows that’s what supposed to be said so he says it verbatim?

He only says it that way for the sake of mystery and a funny line*, which are fine reasons, but it feels like the original point of him relaying the Enigma message and its importance as a clue got lost in the rewrites or in-universe loop somewhere.

* I remember finding it hilarious the first time when I thought it was just a random exclamation he was fated to make.

[Jonathan Capps]

Isn’t it weird how in series V Robert did that very affected “Of course!” on a few occasions that he hasn’t done since.

[Spaceworm Jim]

I think he’s just repeating what he’s heard verbatim because he doesn’t want to cause a paradox.

Has anyone played Escape from Monkey Island? There’s a puzzle in there where you (as Guybrush) come across yourself in the future and Future Guybrush hands you certain objects in a specific order. In the next scene you find you have become Future Guybrush and you have to hand Past Guybrush the same objects in the same order, and if you don’t this weird timehole thing appears and sucks you up and you go back to the beginning of that bit and have to do it again. So it’s like that, except instead of you being a pirate called Guybrush it’s Robert Llewellyn being an android called Kryten.

For any fans of Monkey Island who have played Escape, I can only apologise for reminding you of the experience.

[Dave]

Isn’t it weird how in series V Robert did that very affected “Of course!” on a few occasions that he hasn’t done since.

Yeah, it’s funny how that came and went. I’d never really thought about it before.

[Warbodog]

Has anyone played Escape from Monkey Island?

For about five minutes before packing it in. I found the sequels steadily less absorbing, but getting through Monkey 1 at 12 was probably my favourite game experience ever.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Isn’t it weird how in series V Robert did that very affected “Of course!” on a few occasions that he hasn’t done since.

Yeah, it’s funny how that came and went. I’d never really thought about it before.

I’m having a hard time picturing / hearing it in my head. Got an example?

[Warbodog]

I think it’s “of course: my last words” and “ahhhhhhf course!” “The luck virus!”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

ahh, of course.

Thanks

[RunawayTrain]

I don’t think this deserves its own thread but just an FYI – it appears Red Dwarf will no longer be on Netflix (UK) after June 14th. Apparently this happens periodically with Stargate in the US and it often comes back once the contract is renegotiated, but I don’t hold out hope for this as I would imagine RD may be moving over to BritBox.

Presumably for many of here it’s more of an inconvenience than an actual problem (or none at all if you already have BritBox and it does go there), but still worth a heads-up.

[Jenuall]

That’s mildly annoying as Netflix has been a pretty convenient mechanism for watching them wherever I happen to find myself

[clem]

The BBC series are already on BritBox.

[RunawayTrain]

The BBC series are already on BritBox.

Oh cool, thanks for mentioning. Is The Brittas Empire on there?

That’s mildly annoying as Netflix has been a pretty convenient mechanism for watching them wherever I happen to find myself

Indeed. I have a workaround, streaming my own copies from cloud storage, but not with subtitles and with precisely none of the user-friendliness of Netflix. I am loathe to even entertain the thought of paying for another service I really don’t *need* though.

[clem]

Brittas isn’t on there. Bernard and the Genie is leaving next Tuesday, so I watched that again the other day even though it’s a Christmas thing.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Wait, Britbox, set up by the terrestrial channels to host like, all the UKs tv content, has content LEAVE in the same way Nextflix and other services do?

Isn’t the point to accumulate them all under on banner and not have the issue of “which service is this series on this week?”

[Rudolph]

Just my really boring observation: I like the subtle updates to Lister’s outfit from XI onwards.

Adding the Punkish Hawaiian shirts and the Mod inspired silk scarf is a nice touch, and a bit more flattering for a man Craig’s age than the same ratty shirt and t-shirt he’s been wearing since 1989.

[Jenuall]

Anyone else get slightly disgusted when Craig keeps licking his finger than he’s rubbed in the space dust on the garbage pod in Waiting for God?

Maybe it’s just the pandemic sending my hygiene standards sky rocketing but it just seems rank to see him rub his finger across the grime and then stick it back in his mouth!

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This is the man who finds piles of powder lying around on the floor, on tables, on chairs etc … and he just eats it before doing anything else.

[GlenTokyo]

I assume it was fuller’s earth so it must have been very dry.

The crew looked like powdered milk, at least that’s edible.

[Pete Part Three]

Maybe it was Craig ad-libbing at the sight of all that white powder.

[Pete Part Three]

Cos it looks like coke. Do you see?

[Jenuall]

Give me an R, give me an E, give me a D…

Give me a Red Dwarf Cocaine Pod!

[RunawayTrain]

Anyone else get slightly disgusted when Craig keeps licking his finger than he’s rubbed in the space dust on the garbage pod in Waiting for God?

Maybe it’s just the pandemic sending my hygiene standards sky rocketing but it just seems rank to see him rub his finger across the grime and then stick it back in his mouth!

Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg very nearly triggered my now mostly-dormant OCD. NONE of them washed their hands after handling the raw chicken – just the thought of it is making me feel anxious even now.

There are a lot of things Lister does that really are disgusting, including the garbage pod thing.

[si]

POST DELETED BY POSTER FOR BEING SHIT

[Dave]

POST DELETED BY POSTER FOR BEING SHIT

There goes the Idea For An Episode thread.

[Stabbim the Skutter]

Hattie’s background acting in 4 and 5 is delightful. I love the way she nods along to the other characters’ dialogue and such, although it does make me feel a bit sad for her. At least she got paid for her time, I suppose.

I’ve never seen anyone talk about the moment in Holoship where you can see her blinking and holding back tears after watching the soppy romantic film. I’m wondering if I’m the only one who’s noticed…

[Jenuall]

Hattie was fantastic and I’d love to see more of her. Her background acting is excellent, she does a hell of a good job in the background for the conversation between Rimmer and Langstrom in Quarantine.

She got a raw deal really, coming into the show just as they were running out of ideas for using the character well.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’ve never seen anyone talk about the moment in Holoship where you can see her blinking and holding back tears after watching the soppy romantic film. I’m wondering if I’m the only one who’s noticed…

wait, Holly is in Holoship?!

[GlenTokyo]

Norman is funny.

Hattie is funny, and she can act.

Hattie ftw for me, I really think she was treated very poorly.

One of the biggest missed opportunities in the making of Red Dwarf is Rob and Doug not realising how much more they could do with Hattie and getting rid instead of developing Holly.

[Jenuall]

I was bored so went through and totted up the lines for Holly across the series. The drop off is really shocking in some cases with Hattie regularly having single figures of lines, and those that she does have becoming increasingly dull – just telling the boys that she’s detected something, or “okay matey” etc.

Even her one “Holly” episode in White Hole gives her far less to do than Norm’s equivalent, getting barely over half as many lines as he got in Queeg.

+-------------------------+-------+
|         Episode         | Lines |
+-------------------------+-------+
| THE END                 |    29 |
| FUTURE ECHOES           |    34 |
| BALANCE OF POWER        |    20 |
| WAITING FOR GOD         |    35 |
| CONFIDENCE AND PARANOIA |    31 |
| ME2                     |    23 |
| KRYTEN                  |    26 |
| BETTER THAN LIFE        |    18 |
| THANKS FOR THE MEMORY   |    20 |
| STASIS LEAK             |    15 |
| QUEEG                   |    87 |
| PARALLEL UNIVERSE       |    37 |
| BACKWARDS               |     9 |
| MAROONED                |     9 |
| POLYMORPH               |    13 |
| BODYSWAP                |    11 |
| TIMESLIDES              |    21 |
| THE LAST DAY            |    12 |
| CAMILLE                 |     6 |
| DNA                     |    12 |
| JUSTICE                 |     6 |
| WHITE HOLE              |    46 |
| DIMENSION JUMP          |     8 |
| MELTDOWN                |     4 |
| HOLOSHIP                |     5 |
| INQUISITOR              |    12 |
| TERRORFORM              |    22 |
| QUARANTINE              |     4 |
| DEMONS AND ANGELS       |     9 |
| BACK TO REALITY         |    16 |
+-------------------------+-------+

Fuck it, have some averages as well whilst I’m at it:

+--------+-------+-------------+
| SERIES | TOTAL |   AVERAGE   |
+--------+-------+-------------+
| S1     |   172 | 28.66666667 |
| S2     |   203 | 33.83333333 |
| S3     |    75 |        12.5 |
| S4     |    82 | 13.66666667 |
| S5     |    68 | 11.33333333 |
+--------+-------+-------------+

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Even her one “Holly” episode in White Hole gives her far less to do than Norm’s equivalent, getting barely over half as many lines as he got in Queeg.

I think we need to let go of the idea that White Hole is a Holly episode in any way other than the character is used as a vehicle to get them into a situation.

It’s not as though it’s about Holly’s ambition to be smart again, finding and executing a way of doing so it and screwing it up.

It’s really about Lister and Kryten breaking Holly in the only act and then getting fucked without her.

[Dave]

Did you count Queeg as Holly in Queeg?

[Jenuall]

Oh absolutely, it’s just the closest we get in Hattie’s era to anything resembling one!

It’s certainly an episode where Holly is an intrinsic part of the plot, whether it’s part of her own plan or not, which is obviously a fairly rare occurence.

[Jenuall]

Did you count Queeg as Holly in Queeg?

No I didn’t, Queeg gets 55 lines (56 if you count “What’s happening Dudes” where it’s Charles’ face but Norm’s voice)

So the total for that episode would be even higher if you gave all of Queeg’s lines to Holly as well

[International Debris]

Yeah, it’s kind of telling that Hattie’s Holly Episode is the one where she’s turned off for most of it.

[Warbodog]

They recorded those poor introductions for series III before they canned them (I don’t know how those would work with the new intro anyway), so it seems like they were planning to keep using Holly as much initially.

It was probably a gradual realisation that five was a crowd and the move towards more sci-fi stories needing the computer to do more straight computer things, which Hattie was as well suited to as the comedy. Then again, maybe Norman could have pulled off things like the DNA/Justice computer interfacing and Inquisitor intruder alert if he’d had the chance, it’s just hard to imagine.

[Flap Jack]

Can’t agree more with the Hattie Holly appreciation.

I understand that in terms of plotting Kryten usurps the role of exposition courier, and so heavily involving both Holly and Kryten is tricky, but Kryten is very different in terms of jokes (principally, Kryten knows what he’s talking about), so Holly’s absence is felt.

And of course Hattie Holly is better than Norman Holly just in general, I think that’s been well established.

[desbug]

I always felt a little disappointed when the new series/special chatter said “HOLLY IS BACK” and then it wasn’t Hattie Hayridge…

I also thought that was just me until I read the above few comments.

[si]

Even her one “Holly” episode in White Hole gives her far less to do than Norm’s equivalent, getting barely over half as many lines as he got in Queeg

Given that a good chunk of the episode happens as a result of her switching herself off, her line count *is* going to be limited.

[Pete Part Three]

I’ve been spending far too much time pondering why the title of the episode is Gunmen of the Apocalypse.

The reference to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse from the New Testament is already incredibly overt (right down to the names of the characters)…but since the characters in the episode also ride horses (as do Cowboys, anyway), it just seems a bit of a odd switch.

[Jenuall]

Isn’t it just a riff on the western ‘Gunmen of the Rio Grande’?

Similar to how the AR game is a reference to Gunmen from Laredo

[Pete Part Three]

That seems like quite an obscure reference – especially since the UK title of that film is Duel At Rio Bravo.

[Warbodog]

I only considered fairly recently that my main teenage email address gunmenoftheapocalypse@yahoo might have looked a bit dodgy or incredibly edgy to the majority of people who didn’t know the names of Red Dwarf episodes off by heart.

[Flap Jack]

Gunmen of the Apocalypse better be a reference to Gunmen of the Rio Grande, or I’m afraid I’m going to have to petition for its Emmy to be retracted on the basis of bad titling.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

What would a good alternative title for Gunmen be?

Dove Program

Ten to Death

YeeHaa

[Warbodog]

It would have been called High Midnight (and been a lot darker) if the night shoot hadn’t proven impractical. Trivia that everyone probably knows, there.

[Dave]

What would a good alternative title for Gunmen be?

Dove Program
Ten to Death
YeeHaa

Best Western

CowBoys From The Dwarf

Yeeh-AR

The Smeg, The Bad And The Ugly

[Flap Jack]

The One Where Everyone’s Inside Kryten

[Author]

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