real world cultural references in the series

[By Jove its holmes]

There’s a reference to the Cold War (still not quite over when this was made) in “Backwards”.

Lister initially thinks the backwards world is Bulgaria and seems to think it’s still part of the Eastern Bloc as when the are trying to ride the bicycle, he says:

“You probably have to be a government official to get one that goes forwards!”

Topic

[si]

I believe Kryten’s named after the titular butler in The Admirable Chrichton.

[Dave]

If only one of the characters had pointed out that specific reference at some point.

[Pete Part Three]

That’s just a strange coincidence, along with the plot of the play being reflected in the episode.

[si]

Just a bit, eh?

[Ben Saunders]

“The multiple references to dinosaurs in the later series reflect MC becoming more famous for dinosaur books.”
Can you explain this, lol?

[tombow]

sorry just my attempt at silly humor. I don’t actually know if Michael Crichton was an influence on Kryten’s name, I just imagined it could have been as a kid. Then of course MC got bigger with the Jurassic Park books and Dwarf coincidentally did it’s own JP with Pete…

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Of course all of the multiple surgeries Kryten has performed over the course of the series is a reference to Michael Crichton being a doctor, and creator of ER.

[tombow]

the despair squids are similar to the story of Sphere and of course the Chimp in Entangled is clever like the one in Congo. The Dwarfers have gone back to Medieval times like the characters in Timeslides and…oh crap Waxworld probably is a reference to Westworld. Maybe there’s something in this after all.

[Pete Part Three]

Next you’ll be telling us that Back to Earth is based on BladeRunner..

[Dave]

Polymorph was of course heavily influenced by regular-Morph on Take Hart.

[Ben Saunders]

Ah, lol, I thought that was a genuine theory you had, and was really interested in what the other examples of Dwarf referencing dinosaurs more and more were, lmao.

[Veni]

Think you should be weary of discussing other people’s theories for the time being.

[Pete Part Three]

Think we should all just be wary of not being dicks.

[Veni]

I’m being realistic here.

[Ben Saunders]

I’m not a miracle worker.

[Spare Hand One]

When Richard Herring revisited Red Dwarf last year or so (he wrote about it in Warming Up and mentioned it a few times on RHLTP), he seemed to like it on balance but seemed to think it was a missed opportunity along the lines of Goodnight Sweetheart.

One of the the things he said he didn’t like about RD were the ‘dated’ real-world references to things like Toffee Crisp. I like Herring a lot but when he said that, I just thought, “you’re so wrong.” I love all that stuff and always did. It’s very funny to think of say, Teasy-Weasy, culturally surviving into the future.

And it’s interesting too. As a kid, I didn’t get all the references and would marvel at the complexity of the grown-ups’ shared history! Today, I look back and laugh at Rob and Doug’s parochial and low-brow (just perfect for Lister, Rimmer and Holly) choice of references.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

the ‘dated’ real-world references to things like Toffee Crisp

Toffee Crisp is still very much a thing though aren’t they. Not to mention, Lister orders a crispy bar once and the machine chucks out a Toffee Crisp. The fact its a Toffee Crisp is incidental and isn’t the joke. Its in the same vain as the blueberry muffin being from Tesco. Just a cheap, shop bought prop.

That’s just a poor example.

Modern cultural references sort of can’t be helped when it comes to past/future set sitcom. Why waste perfectly good jokes just because the show is set in another time? Using modern references saves you the effort of having to set up and explain the joke as the audience immediately understands it. Sometimes it can get a little over the top, especially if the show ends up relying on them, but for the most part they’re fine and just pass you by when they’re mixed into whatever else is happening in the scene.

Presumably he also has an issue with Blackadder’s contemporary references too? Or Plebs, which isn’t heavy on the direct referencing, but is basically the modern day written into ancient Rome.

[tombow]

Yeah, the thing I like about pretty much all sci fi is that it’s a product of it’s time, whether it’s Dwarf, Metropolis, Star wars, etc, they’re about then more than the future really

[Dave]

Also, a Toffee Crisp is somehow inherently funnier than just a generic prop (like some of the other Red Dwarf-branded food they use in the show).

I think Jerry Seinfeld made this point before about references to stuff like cereals and sweets in his show, that using real brands that the audience will recognise is always funnier than coming up with a generic substitute, even when the brand itself isn’t really the point of the joke.

[Spare Hand One]

Toffee Crisp is still very much a thing though aren’t they. Not to mention, Lister orders a crispy bar once and the machine chucks out a Toffee Crisp. The fact its a Toffee Crisp is incidental and isn’t the joke. Its in the same vain as the blueberry muffin being from Tesco. Just a cheap, shop bought prop.

That’s just a poor example

To be fair to Herring, that might have been *my* poor example. I may not have remembered his examples correctly. I think Bernie Inn might have been in there.

I agree with Dave though, that the specificity of Toffee Crisp is funnier than a generic brand krispie bar. It’s just more interesting and it comes with its own highly-welcome semiotic freighting.

My point really is that all those specific things (whether they seem old-fashioned *now* or are likely to look old-fashioned in the 23rd century, are) are GREAT, that they serve the screen, serve the joke, serve as their own little bonus joke, and anchor the script fragment into a meaningful, characterful world.

Anyway, back to my poo.

[clem]

“First rule of comedy – be specific. You never say biscuit, you say Garibaldi.”

[bloodteller]

>I think Jerry Seinfeld made this point before about references to stuff like cereals and sweets in his show, that using real brands that the audience will recognise is always funnier than coming up with a generic substitute, even when the brand itself isn’t really the point of the joke.

that’s definitely true, the episodes of Seinfeld with stuff like Junior Mints or Jujyfruits wouldn’t have been nearly as funny if it was generic made-up stuff. “it’s a little mint…it’s a Minty Miniature!” doesn’t quite land as well. it’s similar to how someone on here (i think it may have been Pete Part 3) pointed out before that the Wilma Flinstone scene in Backwards isn’t nearly as funny if you replace it with made-up characters. “Wanda Flagstone” just isn’t as funny for some reason

[Ben Saunders]

>the ‘dated’ real-world references to things like Toffee Crisp
WHAT?! Hahahahaha. You can go to any newsagents and buy a toffee crisp right now.

[Taiwan Tony]

RHLTP!

That’s Herring all over. Quick to criticise comedy as he thinks he knows it all. Then you watch or listen to any of the stuff he’s written, (That Was Then…; Relativity; his hours of stand up) and you realise he’s very much
just a keen amateur.

[Taiwan Tony]

>WHAT?! Hahahahaha. You can go to any newsagents and buy a toffee crisp right now.

Nah, they’re closed.

[tombow]

wow. not only is toffee crisp still around but Smash mash potato (now owned by Premier foods not Cadbury). The past I thought was lost was hiding around me all along.

[Spare Hand One]

WHAT?! Hahahahaha. You can go to any newsagents and buy a toffee crisp right now.

You were a bit too quick to leap in there. If you’d read a very few extra words, you’d have seen that this had already been addressed. And it doesn’t really matter if a thing is still available, does it? There are several ways a reference might be described as dated.

In any event, I was speaking in favour of the lovely Toffee Crisp reference in our shared Favourite Thing, Red Dwarf. No need to kick my balls in.

[Spare Hand One]

RHLSTP!

That’s Herring all over. Quick to criticise comedy as he thinks he knows it all. Then you watch or listen to any of the stuff he’s written, (That Was Then…; Relativity; his hours of stand up) and you realise he’s very much
just a keen amateur.

RHLSTP!

Sigh. I’m afraid you might be right. I’ve been a fan of Herring’s for a very long time but this is a true burn. Still love him though.

[Ben Saunders]

I was making fun of Richard for saying that, not you, some I thought you were quoting him, but yes I didn’t read the following posts before responding to that one. I just found something incredibly funny in the ideas that Richard Herring would announce to this entire audience that he thinks Toffee Crisps are “dated”. Like he’s such a successful comedian he’s completely out of touch with the common man and would probably call cheese and onion McCoy’s dated just because he hasn’t had any in twenty years, only truffles and caviar.

[Pete Part Three]

Don’t recall Richard Herring having a problem with Toffee Crisps in Red Dwarf. Shake ‘n’ Vac, definitely.

And that, while still available, was very much in vogue when it featured in 1988 due to the fairly ubiquitous commercial/jingle…so is a product that still *seems* very “eighties”.

[Ben Saunders]

Toffee crisps were all the rage when I was in primary school in the 2000s, specifically putting them in the microwave for about five seconds so they’d go all melty. I never actually did that, but the tales of those who had were semi-legendary. It was like they were imparting some ancient delicious secret upon those who would listen.

[Hamish]

All I can say is that here in Canada we have Coffee Crisps and you lot are missing out.

[Veni]

here in Canada

Can we get the foreigner out of here, please.

[Paul Muller]

I’m afraid Hamish and I have assumed control of G&T. This is a Canadian website now.

[bloodteller]

is it true nobody drives a car in Canada

[Ben Saunders]

They all drive Priuses and sniff their own farts, do keep up

[Paul Muller]

It’s a small country, most people just walk.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

For those people that do drive cars, they have to have their pedals converted to accommodate their ice skates, and that’s quite costly.

[By Jove its holmes]

Christine McGlade was the only Canadian in the 1980s worth a darn.

[Author]

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