Russell Two Davies

[Nick R]

Apparently, today there was some news about a change to Doctor Who’s production staff, in some obscure behind-the-scenes role. I don’t know if anyone else heard about it?

Topic

[Rushy]

Good news folks, we’re retconning everything past 2009

In fairness, there isn’t all that much after 2009 worth keeping. Show was going off the rails by the middle of the Silence arc. 

[Ben Saunders]

EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER

[Rushy]

Spare me the poisonous barbs, they fall on deaf ears! 

[Dave]

In fairness, there isn’t all that much after 2009 worth keeping.

[Professor Flibble]

Nah, the revival peaked with Series 5. 2013 was when things started to go wrong.

[Rushy]

Nah, the revival peaked with Series 5. 

Yeah, tbf that’s really what I meant. I’ve always regarded the Big Bang as a kind of ending, when the Doctor sacrifices his own existence to bring the universe back. 

There’s certainly episodes I like after that, but there’s never been a full season that I’m completely happy with after 5. 

Series 10 comes the closest, but I don’t like anything about Missy’s arc or the Monks. 

[Professor Flibble]

Series 10 comes the closest, but I don’t like anything about Missy’s arc or the Monks. 

I like the Doctor’s blindness having an impact in the Monk trilogy, that’s the kind of narrative arc I prefer over the way the New Series usually does it. Simple cause and effect storytelling where an aspect of one story affects the next one. But yeah Series 10 isn’t perfect but it’s one of the best imo

[Professor Flibble]

Actually, that’s one good thing about the tender document stating one series, I really hope when Doctor Who comes back, it ditches the whole overarching stories over multiple years thing. Just make one good series at a time 

[Ben Saunders]

There are too many brilliant episodes past Series 5 to have such a doomer outlook on it. Even the shit ones have a certain je ne sais quoi to them that vanished when Capaldi walked off into the sunset. Except maybe Kill The Moon and Into The Forest of the Night.

[Professor Flibble]

I hope they find some way to resolve that Billie Piper cliffhanger without it impeding the show having a fresh start. Could they not green screen her on the TARDIS set for a Children in Need this year, say she’s Rose and there was some weird dimension hopping thing? I don’t want another RTD or Moffat type coming along in 10 years going “So about that Billie Piper cliffhanger…” 

[Warbodog]

There are some great Capaldi episodes I’ll watch again eventually, but I didn’t care about any of his arcs. So about the same as Tennant, really. The bit in the middle’s called Smith, and that makes me come.

[Flap Jack]

I would never de-canonise any era of the show, and Capaldi was probably the modern Doctor with the highest average episode quality after Tennant and Eccleston. However,

[Professor Flibble]

Listen was shit.

[Dave]

Capaldi has lots of great individual episodes, but I agree the arcs are a bit wonky. I wish Clara had cleared off a lot sooner and we got more years out of Bill.

[Rushy]

Listen fell flat on its face towards the end, but the narrative device of Capaldi breaking the fourth wall and treating the audience as the companion (also in Before the Flood and to a certain extent in Heaven Sent) worked remarkably well and should’ve been more of a trademark for his Doctor. 

That aside, my main issue with Capaldi is that I don’t think he was well suited for Moffat’s ADHD-mannered dialogue. Smith was a natural at it, and McGann made it work by being very understated. But I don’t think it ever came naturally to Capaldi. And watching him in interviews where he talks about bringing back “the cold winter nights” to Doctor Who, I feel like he imagined his era being very different from what it ended up being.

Often, Moffat’s writing was very good, but Capaldi’s line delivery was off. Or Capaldi was very good, but Moff was giving him rubbish. Never consistent. 

[Professor Flibble]

I think Moffat’s way of writing alternates between being dynamic and insufferable. Particularly I’m not keen on the way he writes side characters. The best Doctor Who he’d written for me is probably either The Curse of Fatal Death or A Christmas Carol.

[Moonlight]

“Focus on character and don’t rely on established Dr Who lore”

I have no business posting in this thread as I don’t think I’ve seen more than about five episodes of 2005 Who but I do feel like a lot of long-running franchises get absolutely crushed under the weight of their own lore and the fan expectation that they keep all of it in mind with each new installment. I’m just kind of tired of media being self-referential at this point (I’ve been moaning in the Futurama thread for a couple years now about them rehashing old jokes way too often).

[sleepey]

I hope they find some way to resolve that Billie Piper cliffhanger without it impeding the show having a fresh start. Could they not green screen her on the TARDIS set for a Children in Need this year, say she’s Rose and there was some weird dimension hopping thing? I don’t want another RTD or Moffat type coming along in 10 years going “So about that Billie Piper cliffhanger…” 

Start of episode 1, Billie (or if she’s not available, Sylvester McCoy in a blond wig) is still standing at the TARDIS entrance. A few seconds later she changes into someone else, who changes into someone else – the regeneration is still going, just cycling through a few different faces before it settles on the right one. “Huh, weird.” After the opening titles they’ve recovered & gone on an unrelated adventure & it never comes up again.

[Rushy]

I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole until the show is in a healthy state again. Just have the next Doctor be the 16th and save the Billie Piper story for another time, for when Tennant is available again. 

My idea for it was Rose is trying to break back into our dimension from Pete’s World, but somehow ends up possessing the Doctor mid-regeneration. And she and the 14th Doctor go on one final adventure together before the 14th Doctor decides to give up his life so the regeneration can be completed. 

It’s not ideal, but it’s the only way I can think of to give her appearance some kind of meaning. 

[Dave]

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