Russell Two Davies

[Nick R]

Apparently, today there was some news about a change to Doctor Who’s production staff, in some obscure behind-the-scenes role. I don’t know if anyone else heard about it?

Topic

[Technopeasant]

Yeah, I really don’t believe spoilers are relevant to the quality of a work. Otherwise there’d be no point in ever rewatching anything.

[Dave]

I agree, I don’t think the spoilers were that widespread or damaging. But presumably that was an added frustration at a time when things weren’t going well so maybe that’s why RTD had such a negative reaction to them.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I liked maybe 50% of the run, there are some good interesting episodes in there, but none of them the important ones with one exception, and two are by a better show runner

The Star Beast

The Giggle (the exception)

Boom (the better show runner)

73 Yards

Dot and Bubble

Rogue (maybe)

Joy to the World (the better show runner)

The Well

Lucky Day

Interstellar Song Contest (maybe)

10/20

 

[FutureEchoes]

https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/first-look-at-tardis-crew-brand-new-cbeebies-animated-adventure-from-the

I’m not sure how Talkie Toaster got there

[Dave]

This looks like it could be a lot of fun.

[Warbodog]

Sonic’s had a shave.

[si]

I like the little scowling Daleks.

Needless (and embarrassing) to say, alongside the appreciative reations, there are plenty of old ‘uns getting all uppity on Twitter, forgetting that it’s for pre-schoolers, appalled at what has been done to a British institution. 

[Flap Jack]

[Professor Flibble]

Looks like a lot of fun, I was apprehensive but this is definitely what the franchise needs.

The new Doctor.

[Rushy]

there are plenty of old ‘uns getting all uppity on Twitter, forgetting that it’s for pre-schoolers

I get what you’re saying, but on the other hand, I feel like I’d want to show something a little more substantial to my pre-schooler. 

It’s like if you have the option to put on the Lion Guard or the Lion King for your toddler. You put on the Lion King, innit?

[Renegade Rob]

Please let the first scene of the whole show start with live-action Billie Piper shifting faces before the regeneration settles on Teal-Haired Tiny Rick as the genuine Sixteenth Doctor, and it transitions into 3D-animated format, sort of like how Twice Upon a Time transitioned from 60’s-who to Modern Who in the intro scene.  

[Flap Jack]

It’s like if you have the option to put on the Lion Guard or the Lion King for your toddler. You put on the Lion King, innit?

For a toddler? I’m picking The Lion Guard for sure.

[Rushy]

For a toddler? I’m picking The Lion Guard for sure.

I like the Lion Guard fine, but why? The Lion King is good for toddlers. Plenty of colour, laughs.

[Technopeasant]

Plenty of colour, laughs.

Death, trauma, famine.

Created for CBeebies viewers, the series follows the Doctor, a young Time Lord, and his friends Hannah, Beastie and Toast-IE as they embark on extraordinary adventures through time and space.

Beyond curious what they mean by “young”.

[Moonlight]

The Lion King is good for toddlers. Plenty of colour, laughs.

It depends. My cousin’s 2 year old can barely focus on a show he asked to put on.

[Warbodog]

Nursery rhymes at 1, Miyazaki at 2, then kids seem to develop their own taste around age 3 and some parents will have to accept watching CBeebies Doctor Who ‘N’ Friends on their own time.

The Lion King is good for toddlers.

[Ian Symes]

My daughter watched Spidey And His Amazing Friends as a toddler, I doubt she’d be as much of a fan if she’d started with No Way Home or somesuch. Now this Doctor Who one is poorly timed for me, as by the time it comes out she’ll probably be a bit old for it, but if it had come along a few years ago, I’ve no doubt she’d have been hooked by it, and we’d now be spending our weekends watching Loose Cannon recons together.

[Dave]

Yeah it’s the same premise as all those Lego Star Wars cartoons isn’t it – a franchise entry point for a younger age group. I think it’s a really good idea.

[Flap Jack]

I like the Lion Guard fine, but why? The Lion King is good for toddlers. Plenty of colour, laughs.

I guess everyone will just have a different opinion about when to introduce kids to the “traumatic parent murder” genre.

Interestingly, the original Lion King was given a U by the BBFC, but the CG remake was given a PG for “mild threat, violence”. Does the original not have those things???

Maybe standards changed a little over the years, but what it tells me is that the original U classification was likely borderline. And even a U only assures suitability for a 4 year old. Below that a U can be fine, but you have to use your own judgement. For me I’d want it to be an unambiguous U, not a borderline PG.

[Dave]

Interestingly, the original Lion King was given a U by the BBFC, but the CG remake was given a PG for “mild threat, violence”. Does the original not have those things???

Even when you’re telling essentially the same story, the effect on the viewer is going to be considered to be different when comparing a traditionally animated cartoon to a photo-realistic “live action” film.

[Stephen Abootman]

What are Martin Compston’s odds on being the next Doctor?

https://deadline.com/2026/10/doctor-who-bids-revealed-jed-mercurio-bbc-scotland-1237147648/

[Jonsmad]

So that new beebies carton doctor travels with a talking toaster. Wonder where they got that Idea? 

[Dave]

So that new beebies carton doctor travels with a talking toaster. Wonder where they got that Idea? 

Ironically, this was mentioned by Future Echoes.

[paintings]

Below that a U can be fine, but you have to use your own judgement. For me I’d want it to be an unambiguous U, not a borderline PG.

At one time there was an additional “Uc” (suitable for children) certificate, which sounds like the sort of thing you are after, but it was withdrawn in 2009. “BBFCInsight” seems to have replaced it, but that information is held elsewhere (i.e. on the BBFC website) rather than associated directly with the product.

This isn’t quite the same thing as a paywall, but you have to know that the information exists in order to go looking for it.

[Professor Flibble]

I hope the series pushes the boundaries for preschoolers in a way equivalent to the way the Hinchcliffe era did for older children. 

[Renegade Rob]

Maybe it’ll push boundaries for preschoolers by featuring Daleks that still actually exterminate people. I mean look at these guys. They don’t look like they fuck around. 

[Ben Saunders]

Managing to anthropomorphise The Daleks, a design that is good largely in part because it is not anthropomorphic, is quite impressive really.

[Ian Symes]

And they still look better than the New Paradigm Daleks.

[Ben Saunders]

The New Paradigm Daleks looked so much better in Wedding/Asylum etc with the more metallic/muted paint jobs, and if they just shaved down the hump (which was supposed to be full of extra attachments we never got to see) then I would have been perfectly happy for them to even take centre stage in later Dalek stories. I think they’re cowards for backing out of it. They should bring them back, they could do interesting things with them.

[Dave]

I feel like I’m the only person who liked the ridiculously toyetic looking New Paradigm Daleks. I’m surprised they didn’t go with something bold and primary-coloured like that for the CBeebies version.

[Warbodog]

I see pareidolia faces in everything, but I never thought those grills were Dalek teeth/mouths. Now I’m worried I will.

[Renegade Rob]

I feel like I’m the only person who liked the ridiculously toyetic looking New Paradigm Daleks. I’m surprised they didn’t go with something bold and primary-coloured like that for the CBeebies version.

You’re not alone. I too liked the New Paradigm Daleks, but I’m a sucker for color coded roles like Power Rangers or the different Lantern colors in DC. I think it’s neat and it makes my brain smile. People kept calling them Power Ranger Daleks and I’m like, stop saying that like it’s a bad thing. The Daleks got so humiliated in Journey’s End that I was open to any kind of reinvention to let them get their groove back. They’ll never be as terrifying as they were during Eccleston’s era but they needed more respect than they got in Tennant’s era. Honestly, I think Moffat should have doubled down on them. And I’m still waiting to find out what the Eternal Dalek’s deal is. 

[Dave]

And I’m still waiting to find out what the Eternal Dalek’s deal is. 

I imagine he would Wanna Be The Only One.

[Dave]

I just saw a comment suggesting that if they were to place this incarnation between Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy then he could be the 6-7 Doctor.

[Rushy]

I imagine he would Wanna Be The Only One.

[Renegade Rob]

I just saw a comment suggesting that if they were to place this incarnation between Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy then he could be the 6-7 Doctor.

What if he’s one of the kid incarnations of the Timeless Child? I can actually get behind that. That’s why the Division is after him, because he still has to clean his room. 

[Professor Flibble]

I love the original Paradigm Daleks, the whole branding of Doctor Who in 2010 was great. I actually think the metallic paint jobs in 2012 made them look a bit dull.

[Renegade Rob]

I love the original Paradigm Daleks, the whole branding of Doctor Who in 2010 was great. I actually think the metallic paint jobs in 2012 made them look a bit dull.

[Professor Flibble]

Honestly, I liked that they committed so much to the Paradigm Daleks being *the* Daleks of the Smith era that they were all over the merchandise and the spin-off media as the default. The logo, title sequence and console room too, it really set itself apart from the RTD era. Then by about 2012 they started to lose that sense of brand cohesion and the Capaldi era suffered for it.

[Renegade Rob]

Yeah. And the 12th Doctor rules but he definitely got short shrift, with basically a hand-me-down Sonic Screwdriver and TARDIS Console Room and even the “Doctor Who” logo and it took him a full season to become “himself.” It felt like they couldn’t decide if his era was gonna be just an extension of Matt Smith’s (like how Eccleston and Tennant basically shared an era) or if his era would be completely distinct despite having the same showrunner. In the end, it’s sort of a mix, when I think committing to either option the whole time would’ve been better. 

[Rushy]

The 12th Doctor isn’t properly established in my eyes until Husbands of River Song. That mess with Clara… 

[Professor Flibble]

Yeah, honestly I think it suited Classic Who more to transition elements because it evolved, New Who makes a much bigger deal about “this is a brand new era, this is a fresh start, this is what the sonic screwdriver looks like now and these Daleks have destroyed the old Daleks etc”

[Rushy]

New Who makes a much bigger deal about “this is a brand new era, this is a fresh start, this is what the sonic screwdriver looks like now and these Daleks have destroyed the old Daleks etc”

It worked for Eleventh Hour, I think mainly because Moffat genuinely did have fresh new ideas at the time. It was the revival’s Spearhead from Space. Plus, the TARDIS had crashed, so there was a narrative reason for it also. 

But by Jodie and especially Ncuti, it does feel a bit performative. Like they’re changing all these aesthetic things, but the show is still having an identity crisis, still no clue where to take the story. 

[Renegade Rob]

I’m endlessly fascinated by the way in which particular eras coalesce into a solid identity, and also how they transition to and from each other (such as Troughton doing a Hartnell-style historical with the Highlanders before abandoning the historicals, and then basically doing an early Pertwee story in The Invasion). Capaldi’s era sort of felt like all transition until Series 10, when his era was almost over, and that’s a shame. (I will say, as much as I’m not big on Series 7 as a whole, it’s fascinating academically as an example of a transitional season in the way it starts with 11 and the Ponds in the clockwork TARDIS and ends with Capaldi and Clara in the teal proto-12 TARDIS.)

[Rushy]

I’m endlessly fascinated by the way in which particular eras coalesce into a solid identity, and also how they transition to and from each other (such as Troughton doing a Hartnell-style historical with the Highlanders before abandoning the historicals, and then basically doing an early Pertwee story in The Invasion).

Even though Troughton’s era was very distinct from Hartnell’s, the War Games seems to function as a finale to both. Especially in the way it depicts the Time Lords. Troughton looks so shabby and insane compared to their regality, but when you think about it, Hartnell in the earliest episodes would’ve fitted in perfectly. There’s something really satisfying about that. Even though it wasn’t intended, there’s a very strong character arc across the six seasons. 

As for transitions, I’ve always felt the War Machines is very important in setting the template that UNIT later picked up. 

Pertwee’s first reaction to seeing his own face is pure Troughton, and gave me the sense that it was somehow still the Second Doctor’s specific personality behind those eyes, before the regeneration was completed. 

To this day, I’m not entirely sure how I feel about Tom. Oh, I adore him, of course. But his Doctor kind of feels like his own entity to an extent. 

[Professor Flibble]

I’m endlessly fascinated by the way in which particular eras coalesce into a solid identity, and also how they transition to and from each other (such as Troughton doing a Hartnell-style historical with the Highlanders before abandoning the historicals, and then basically doing an early Pertwee story in The Invasion). Capaldi’s era sort of felt like all transition until Series 10, when his era was almost over, and that’s a shame. (I will say, as much as I’m not big on Series 7 as a whole, it’s fascinating academically as an example of a transitional season in the way it starts with 11 and the Ponds in the clockwork TARDIS and ends with Capaldi and Clara in the teal proto-12 TARDIS.)

I love the way Classic Who does it, especially Seasons 4 and 21, and Pertwee and Baker’s last seasons feeling like prototypes of their successors’ eras while wrapping up their own. It’s funny how Adric is the character that links the Season 17 TARDIS crew to the Season 19 TARDIS crew, when they feel worlds apart. I mean it’ll never not be weird to me that Adric and Romana were companions at the same time.

[Renegade Rob]

It’s interesting how Tennant basically just inherited everything from Eccleston and just got on with it. The companion, the ancillary characters, the shared universe of the era, the console room, the screwdriver, the story style. There almost wasn’t a transition, he just hit the ground running since everything else was already established. The only awkward piece of transition is seeing what’s clearly Series 2 Billie Piper dressed like Series 1 Rose. I know it’s a production order thing, but S1 and S2 Rose/Billie are very different, and that “Born Again” Children in Need special has S2 Billie playing S1 Rose, it’s weird once you notice it. 

[Technopeasant]

Almost as if their lead abruptly quit innit?

[Renegade Rob]

Almost as if their lead abruptly quit innit?

Touché. 

[Rushy]

The only awkward piece of transition is seeing what’s clearly Series 2 Billie Piper dressed like Series 1 Rose. I know it’s a production order thing, but S1 and S2 Rose/Billie are very different, and that “Born Again” Children in Need special has S2 Billie playing S1 Rose, it’s weird once you notice it. 

What do you mean? A hairstyle change? Or are you saying her performance style changed?

[Author]

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