Series VII Highlights

[Jawscvmcdia]

Series VII is controversial in many ways – it was the first series following the dissolution of the Grant Naylor partnership, it sees the arrival of a new character and the loss of arguably its most popular one, the loss of the studio audience and a major change in direction, opting for a comedy drama feel as opposed to being a traditional sitcom. Many fans naturally were not keen on the changes made, but many also see it as being one of the last of the original series, before VIII, BTE and the Dave era came along. In celebration of the series, I thought that we should highlight some of its best moments:

*Tikka To Ride: An excellent example of how a Red Dwarf comedy drama might have panned out, had the budget been consistent throughout and had Rimmer been available for the full series. It looks the part and almost cinematic at moments, with wonderful acting by Michael J. Shannon who plays former US President John F. Kennedy.

*Stoke Me A Clipper – This episode sees the triumphant return of Ace Rimmer in an action-packed story, with wonderful back references to earlier episodes. The emotional exit of Rimmer is also played very well, and we see a side to the Rimmer/Lister relationship seldom seen before or since.

*Ouroboros – A great episode which introduces Kochanski in true 1990s style. Throughout the episode features an interesting development of Kryten’s character, and how the effect the new arrival will have on his relationship with Lister.

*Blue – Rimmer and Lister kiss. Need I say more? Oh, and how could I forget the Rimmer Munchkin song?

*Beyond a Joke – Excellent special effects and Able is played well by Rob as what is effectively the anti-Kryten.

*Epideme – An excellent and curious idea of featuring an intelligent virus, played wonderfully by voice over legend Gary Martin.

*Nanarchy – The return of Norman Lovett after several years off screen.

Feel free to suggest your own ideas.

Topic

[Hamish]

> Not Dwarf’s fault, of course, but… Well, as a Russian-Jew the goo-goo-eyed encomia of this episode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

To be fair one of the points the episode was making was that Kennedy’s image became larger than life because of how he was assassinated, and how left to his own devices he would have left a far less flattering one. That is the whole reason he shot himself.

It is more of a commentary on martyrdom in that respect than JFK himself.

[flanl3]

And then they beat Lister.

[Ben Saunders]

Which was Craig Charles’ idea. Cunt.

[bloodteller]

would the episode have been any better if it ended without them beating Lister though?

“i forgot to ask if there were any curry houses in Dallas” is a pretty naff way to end the episode too

[Dave]

The Xtended ending is much better, I think.

[flanl3]

It absolutely bothers me that shooting your past self both keeps you alive but destined not to become that person and kills your past self for good right then and there in the same episode.

[Manbird]

> “To be fair one of the points the episode was making was that Kennedy’s image became larger than life because of how he was assassinated, and how left to his own devices he would have left a far less flattering one. That is the whole reason he shot himself.

It is more of a commentary on martyrdom in that respect than JFK himself.” <

Fair point, and a bloody good one. I suppose it’s a bit like the Simpsons episode “Lisa the Iconoclast”, which acknowledges the necessity of myths to bring out the best in people. Having said that, I wish “Tikka to Ride” had been a bit more like “Lemons”: not that I particularly care for that episode, but it is overtly iconoclastic in the way it humanises the (fake) Jesus. “Tikka” just feels a bit too reverential to me, what with its chiaroscuro lighting on Kennedy and emphasis on his icon status without much discussion on what he actually achieved. (Rimmer says he was a fine man, and Lister refers to him as a cultural icon: it’s only in the deleted scenes we get a rationale – which, again, is not entirely true given what we now know.)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not ‘down’ on Kennedy as such – and I’m certainly not trying to offend anyone: I just think it’s odd for a show that champions characters who would otherwise be written off by society not reversing that model. Some might say it’s because the show was trying to play to an American market at that time, but I think that’s a rather glib argument.

Ah well. The debate goes on, as they say.

[Manbird]

> “The Xtended ending is much better, I think.” <

This. I don’t like the idea of the Dwarfers duffing someone up at the best of times, but when it’s done in a cartoonesque, Bottom-style (love that show, by the way) in a programme where actions supposedly have consequences, it not only betrays the verisimilitude of that universe but makes its protagonists look like deranged twats.

[Hamish]

We are actually basically on the same page when it comes to JFK Manbird, it is just while thinking on it I found a way to refute a few of my own niggles.

[Flap Jack]

Tikka to Ride is a weird one for me, because intellectually I know that the changing functionality of the time drive – and the fact that nobody tries to use it to go back to Earth properly – shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s just a comedy etc. etc. But it ALWAYS bothers me, as well as the in-episode inconsistency about how time paradoxes work. I’ve happily accepted continuity in Red Dwarf as flexible, but “don’t directly contradict the very last episode to air before this one” seems like a low bar to clear.

Lister’s obsession with curry is also way too exaggerated, like that one episode of latter-era Simpsons where Homer’s whole subplot is to get doughnuts. Curry-obsession is just a quirk Lister has, it’s not supposed to be his entire character. Besides, in the context of series VII he only needs to find Red Dwarf to get more. Why not use the time drive for that, eh?

It’s still the best episode of its series, though. ;)

[Dave]

“don’t directly contradict the very last episode to air before this one” seems like a low bar to clear.

True, but an episode can only really attempt that once it manages to clear the even lower bar of not directly contradicting the beginning of its own story.

[Ben Saunders]

Lister got it wrong

[Seb Patrick]

Have to say, I completely disagree on the gay panic idea. It’s not gay panic. It’s Rimmer panic. I think if you’ve never seen the show before then yes, it could come off as “This man is disgusted that he’s just imagined kissing another man”. But if you know anything about Lister and Rimmer and their pre-existing dynamic, then there’s surely nothing to it than “Oh my God, I just kissed Rimmer”.

To be fair one of the points the episode was making was that Kennedy’s image became larger than life because of how he was assassinated, and how left to his own devices he would have left a far less flattering one. That is the whole reason he shot himself.

Also, the person saying that Kennedy was “a fine man” is Rimmer. Who also idolises Napoleon Bonaparte.

[Seb Patrick]

It absolutely bothers me that shooting your past self both keeps you alive but destined not to become that person and kills your past self for good right then and there in the same episode.

It’s taken me twenty years, but I’ve come up with a rationalisation for this: Lister is wrong. Lister thinks that they were brought back to life by virtue of being killed by their past selves, and that’s what he tells his camera recording. What he doesn’t know is that Rimmer destroyed the time drive and that that’s what caused the reset.

[flanl3]

Why does Starbug explode at the end of Out of Time then? Is that just the timeline resetting?

[Ben Saunders]

Seb comes in and sprinkles some sense into the discussion, as usual.

Isn’t it ambiguous as to which Starbug explodes? Or is it re-edited for VII to make it ambiguous which Starbug explodes, retroactively? Isn’t there one version where we see a bazookoid shot fly towards (a) Starbug, and one where we don’t Which version is canon? Am I talking out of my arse?

[Pete Part Three]

>Isn’t there one version where we see a bazookoid shot fly towards (a) Starbug, and one where we don’t Which version is canon?

The version where we see the laser fly from the bottom right of the screen is “canon” (if there is such a thin in Red Dwarf) as it’s the shot in the broadcast version of Out of a Time. Tikka adds a shot of the Future Starbug firing the laser too.

In the version on Smeg Ups (with the Urine Recyc ending – but not the “Smeg, I’m a hero!” line), you can see both Starbugs in the shot when the present one explodes.

Starbug blowing up because it’s been hit by the future ship is consistent in the various versions.

[flanl3]

I think I’ve got it.

Either the future ship destroying Starbug destroyed the time drive or Rimmer did just in time, and that’s what made the loop break – destruction of the time drive – which is why it’s still consistent with Kennedy, since the Time Drive wasn’t destroyed in that kerfuffle.

[Pete Part Three]

(Except the “Smeg, I’m a hero!” cut, where the ship doesn’t blow up, the timelines visibly adjust and, presumably, the future ship just disappears)

[Pete Part Three]

My last post was an addendum to my earlier one, I wasn’t contradicting you, flanl.

[Pete Part Three]

FWIW though, I don’t see any difference between destroying an earlier version of the timedrive or an earlier version of yourself. The same logic should apply. It’s still the grandfather paradox.

[flanl3]

It’s sort of the time drive resetting to its original loop vs you resetting to your original loop?

Also, it’s breaking the laws of causality. Nobody said it was supposed to make sense what does what.

[Dave]

It’s a shame, because Out Of Time is the one blot on the otherwise 100% consistent treatment of time-travel on Red Dwarf.

[Pete Part Three]

Why’s there a distinction? If I go back in time and kill myself, that’s a paradox. If I go back in time and destroy my younger self’s version of the time machine, that’s a paradox.

In Tikka to Ride, the explanation given is that time has reset to cope with the paradox. They have a memory of it, but the actions during the paradox didn’t stick. So they’re resurrected before any of that happened (give or take a bunch of bullshit about Starbug expanding to justify some fancy location shots of its interior and the entirety of Duct Soup)

25 minutes later, Kennedy kills himself. There’s a paradox, but the actions stick.

Yes, it’s all nonsense theory, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the writer keeps to the same rules in the same episode.

[Manbird]

> “So they’re resurrected before any of that happened (give or take a bunch of bullshit about Starbug expanding to justify some fancy location shots of its interior and the entirety of Duct Soup)” <

This irritates me considerably. I can live with Doug revising the time drive so it allows you to travel in space as well as time (it helps if you consider each series as a jumping-on point), but all that shit about Starbug expanding to cope with the paradox is totally unnecessary. If you’re happy to change the continuity of a major plot point without explanation, how can you possibly justify wasting screen time discussing the whys and wherefores of the new, improved set?

Yeah- small, shitty little point, I know, but it sums up what went wrong with VII for me: lack of focus and misplaced priorities.

[Flap Jack]

Have to say, I completely disagree on the gay panic idea. It’s not gay panic. It’s Rimmer panic. I think if you’ve never seen the show before then yes, it could come off as “This man is disgusted that he’s just imagined kissing another man”. But if you know anything about Lister and Rimmer and their pre-existing dynamic, then there’s surely nothing to it than “Oh my God, I just kissed Rimmer”.

Well it probably is Rimmer panic. It sounds like it.

I certainly can’t argue that disgust isn’t a perfectly reasonable reaction to the idea of snogging Rimmer! I just feel that regardless of in-universe logic, depicting a gay kiss as a horrible nightmare inevitably contributes to the gay panic trend. Only a little bit, though. (I really like the scene, I swear!)

Of course, Blue is small potatoes compared to Duct Soup, the episode where Lister has a literal gay panic. ^_^

[Moonlight]

I’m bothered by the idea that the wind tunnel is inside Starbug. I don’t care how much Starbug has expanded, it could still fit inside that tunnel. And why would Starbug have that stuff on its inside?

Really, VII treats Starbug as being Red Dwarf and Starbug at the same time.

[Moonlight]

I said Starbug like five times in that post and I feel like I need to apologize.

[Ben Paddon]

S’bigger on the inside though, innit.

[Dave]

It’s not the size of it that bothers me so much as what it’s actually meant to be. What part of Starbug is it?

[Ben Saunders]

The wind tunnel.

[Plastic Percy]

To be frank, they were going that way in VI, especially with Psirens which manages to add a three tier engineering room to the ship.

[International Debris]

I’d like to buy the “Lister is wrong” thing, but it’s:
a) fairly clear that Kryten agrees with him
b) fairly clear that Doug intended him to be right, and it’s the staggeringly inconsistent writing from Doug that bothers me about it as much as the internal issues. It’s a level of laziness which was hitherto unseen in Red Dwarf.

[Dollar Pound]

they filmed the wind tunnel scene in one of kryten’s gloves from the future

[Dollar Pound]

the show is set in a dimension which doesn’t have scale. the banana in the bunkroom is meant to be a real banana. sometimes they skip into a dimension with scale. eg dna, back in the red and lister’s rubbish lampshading of why the bug is so big

[bloodteller]

isn’t the wind tunnel scene meant to be them walking around in starbug’s engines? thats what i always thought

[Ben Saunders]

Kryten was wrong.
Doug was wrong.

>isn’t the wind tunnel scene meant to be them walking around in starbug’s engines?
That sounds incredibly dangerous

[Ben Saunders]

Doug is just writing a dramatised version of events which (are) actually (going to have) happened, and sometimes he gets his facts wrong here and there.

[Ben Saunders]

Doug is just writing a dramatised version of events which (are) actually (going to have) happened, and sometimes he gets his facts wrong here and there.

[International Debris]

Nope, it’s supposedly the “cargo deck”.
“Sirs – the altercation with our future selves caused dimensional anomalies which have expanded the cargo deck by 212%! We should ascertain that the new structure is stable.”

One thing that always bugged me about VII is how strangely cosy it feels at times. Compared to the desperation of survival on Starbug in VI, which is one of the aspects of VI I actually enjoyed, they now have a small ship-to-surface craft with a huge AR suite, a 212% expanded TARDIS-like cargo deck, miles of ducts, a standalone wash room, a medibay, and a fridge stocked with condiments.

[Dave]

I always thought the old analogy of the crew’s life on Red Dwarf being like living on a deserted ocean liner – while the Starbug of series VI is more like being tossed around in a dinghy – was quite an apt one.

In comparison, the Starbug of series VII feels at the very least like a modest luxury yacht.

[Ben Saunders]

Moving away from the monster-of-the-week format was something VII did well, even if it gave us Duct Soup, which is shite, and Blue, where literally nothing happens.

[bloodteller]

>where literally nothing happens

you could say the same about Balance of Power

[International Debris]

The lack of any threat-based plot is one of the main things I like about Blue. It’s an episode about Lister’s relationship with Rimmer, and how it changed over the years following the accident. A good subject for an episode.

[Ian Symes]

Going back to the Kennedy thing. If it was Doctor Who, you’d say Kennedy’s assassination is a fixed point in time. He *has* to be killed in Dallas in November 1963, so the timeline resets itself with this event in place. The crew being killed in Out of Time is not a fixed point, so the timeline is more flexible. It could have gone either way, and they got lucky.

(I despise the two contradictory interpretations being in the same episode too, and I don’t think any amount of contrived headcanon can solve the problem. But it’s fun.)

[Dave]

I think the two realities that collapse in on each other as a result of the Out Of Time cliffhanger, as well as expanding Starbug, create a new version of the timedrive (one that can transport you through space as well as time) which has the ability to sustain a pocket-universe that allows you to maintain an alternate timeline in which Kennedy lives just so that he can return to the core timeline and kill himself. Him fading away at the end is actually just him returning to the pocket universe. Which the future-Dwarfers weren’t able to do because they never had the snazzy new version of the timedrive that can do that.

(No, I don’t really think that.)

[Dollar Pound]

my head canon is this is just one vid of many. he’s done everything: lord lucan, multiple appendixes, the nunes memo, everything

[Dollar Pound]

except little jimmy osmond

[si]

I liked it when they said Smeg.

[Moonlight]

I like it when the vampire talks about clothes.

[Author]

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