Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum She didn’t see that coming did she? I did.

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  • #3302
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Hint, surely. Easy explanation is that he read the scene list on the DVD. Also neatly explains why Rimmer is so confident; he knew what to do in advance. If true, Katarina has no idea what’s going on and the person here who said she thinks she’s helping is probably dead on. I am starting to think the proposition that holly or kochanski are going to pop out at the end and yell ‘Psych!’ in the universe’s most elaborate intervention is less likely, and something genuinely freaky is in store. Like, ouroboros freaky.

    Insomnia, here.

    #96044
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    Nah, I don’t think the DVD had that much detail of what happened in the episode. I interpreted it as “I know Rimmer well enough to know he’d do something like that”

    #96046
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I think Kryten meant he saw the car coming.

    It was a joke.

    Do you see?

    #96050
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Hint, surely. Easy explanation is that he read the scene list on the DVD. Also neatly explains why Rimmer is so confident; he knew what to do in advance.

    I think you could be right. Kryten certainly is a little suspicious in these episodes.

    #96070
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s not Kryten, it’s John Warburton

    #96078
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I wasn’t keen on that scene. There was humour certainly, but it seemed to harsh for Rimmer. Sure, he was partly responsible for the massacre of an entire wax-world colony, but it was by influence rather than mowing them down himself.

    I suppose it makes some sense when considering it as self defence, but even then it doesn’t feel quite right.

    #96092
    Dave
    Participant

    She may be dead, but she’s not deader

    #96097
    Dessie
    Participant

    Katerina won’t be dead. To be honest i think Rimmer would know that since he has a hard light drive and is well aware what can kill him and what cant. I think he did it just to get rid of her for a while.

    #96099
    Bob Loblaw
    Participant

    Kryten definitely knows something that everyone else doesn’t. Also, I believe that he is covering for Kochanski, as the bus kids said; note how guilty/shifty he looks when the “They Walk Among Us” owner mentions her death.

    #96102
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    See, I read it both ways and I don’t know what to make of it at all.

    >but it seemed to harsh for Rimmer

    Right, at first I assumed what Dessie did, that Katarina just got punted down the street, but the GnT team almost uniformly read it as murder, possibly because of the is-it-murder dialogue. Whichever way it is really, I think the audience is intended to go OMGWTF and then be relieved later. However:

    >but it was by influence rather than mowing them down himself.

    Rimmer is partially responsible for a *lot* of deaths, some of them fairly distrubing. Lister certianly holds him responsible for waxworld. You notice there are always mitigating factors that make him seem less than a homicidal manic, but when you look at his ‘accidental’ body count and the fact that this theme recurs fairly regularly starting from ME2, a casual attitude toward other people’s deaths is essential to his character, so is this really as harsh as it looks?

    #96104
    Phil
    Participant

    >is this really as harsh as it looks?

    Since the “pleasure and pain responses remain the same” for a hardlight hologram, and he has just directly inflicted whatever large amount of pain would be associated with being struck by (if not dragged by) at least one high-speed automobile on her, yeah, I’d say it’s as harsh as it looked.

    The waxworld stuff was indirect. The drive plate stuff was indirect. Is he still responsible for them? Yes. Is he able to shrug them off and try to shift the blame to other people or circumstances beyond his control? Yes. That’s what Rimmer does. He’s able to have a casual attitude toward those deaths because there is a distance he maintains from them.

    The faulty drive plate killing the entire crew of Red Dwarf is much, much different than Rimmer finding a gun and going on a killing spree, even if the end result is the same. The wax-world charge into oblivion is different from Rimmer sneaking into everybody’s tents at night and slitting their throats, even if the end result is the same.

    The Rimmer that we saw shove her in front of a car last night has no concept of the difference between those things. Which is a shame, because understanding (and exploiting) that concept was the key to his casual acceptance in the first place.

    #96106
    Dessie
    Participant

    I also think that after being dead for so long he doesn’t really care about another hard light hologram especially one who is going to kill him. He pushed her into a car, sure it hurt her but she’ll be back and after her speech to him a minute before why should he care? She was going to erase him and we all know Rimmer will do anything as long as he survives.

    #96121
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    >Since the ?pleasure and pain responses remain the same? for a hardlight hologram, and he has just directly inflicted whatever large amount of pain would be associated with being struck by (if not dragged by) at least one high-speed automobile on her, yeah, I?d say it?s as harsh as it looked.

    Er, Good point. I forgot about this. You’re right, that is pretty upsetting. Mind you, a heart attack has to be pretty painful too. He happily set Knott up for that and he wasn’t even a little bit dead to begin with.

    I concede there is a significant difference between partial responsibility and shooting someone in the face but I always felt the upshot of waxworld was that he attempts to maintain a distance but it’s clearly not legitimate and cowardice can be equally, if not more destructive. Given his past behavior, I’m not convinced it’s *entirely* outside his character.

    #96149
    Nakrophile
    Participant

    > Since the ?pleasure and pain responses remain the same? for a hardlight hologram, and he has just directly inflicted whatever large amount of pain would be associated with being struck by (if not dragged by) at least one high-speed automobile on her, yeah, I?d say it?s as harsh as it looked.

    Yeah, it is pretty painful.

    Anyway, she’ll be back, I have no doubt. I also have no problem with that scene.

    #96155
    Blisschick
    Participant

    Honestly, when I first saw it, I was shocked, but I agree with the arguments that it really comes as no surprise. I agree with Dessie — Rimmer will do what it takes to ensure his own survival, dead or alive, literally. He wasn’t adverse to shooting an unarmed Simulant in the back, so why should he care about shoving Katerina into a moving car?

    #96157
    SkyAndSun
    Participant

    It’s in Rimmer’s character I think. But I’d have thought the others might have objected (as they did in, say, Waxworld). But maybe in the interests of time Doug chose not to show their reactions.

    #96160
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Kryten reacts a bit, I think. He definately looks dismayed and slightly guilty as if he wanted to prevent it.

    #96212
    si
    Participant

    Probable answer: he saw it and wanted to say something, but The Creator hadn’t written a line for him.

    #96214
    SkyAndSun
    Participant

    STILL don’t get what the Creator thing, preventing them from speaking or acting out of character, has to do with joy.

    #96243
    Carlito
    Participant

    Because by defeating him, they became their own Gods, capable of moulding their lives exactly as they want to from now on… they had full autonomy over their lives… they were salivating at the thought, the whole scenario had led them to their ultimate indulgence of joy…

    #96247
    ChrisM
    Participant

    That’s how I saw it Carl.

    Also, since the Elation Squid’s ink is actually a deterrent for predators, and will has some role in allowing them escape, (once their immunity kicks in of course) it makes sense that the development of elation is a slow burner.

    That explains why the world seemed relatively normal earlier on (although there were clues even then, like the comic man accepting them so readily.) It took their minds as a starting point to make it all seem true, like the mark 2 version of Better Than Life in the novels. And the longer they thought it was real, the longer the squid has a chance of escape (not that she did being in a tank and all, but that’s the idea of the defence mechanism.)

    It still puzzles me a bit how Electronic lifeforms such as Kryten and Rimmer would be affected by these hallucinogenic inks (be it despair or elation.) With Kryten I suppose it’s understandable as his brain is part biological. Rimmer’s light be isn’t though. Maybe the light bee generates internal organs as well as the outer form, and they respond in the way a human’s would….

    #96252
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Okay, so Kryten really meant he knew Rimmer would shove her into an oncoming car. Damn.

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