Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Spoilers! Doctor Who – New Series. New Thread

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  • #107945
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I think numbers mean alot more now then they did then though. Series 5 back then was just another 40 odd episodes and after they were out they fucked off onto a scrapheap (half of them anyway).
    Today all the DVDs and Blu-Ray and ITunes and all that stuff, numbers have alot more meaning today, you can’t compare it to 1968.
    Calling it Series 5 makes a newcomer think “I’ll have to watch Series 1, ahh I can’t be arsed” which is complete bollocks.
    Calling it Series 1 makes a newcomer watch it thinking it is the first and enjoy it, then they’ll realise it is just the first in a new era of the show and go back from there.

    Overall it may confuse a few fans and a few people may buy the wrong DVD by mistake but it will get more people to watch the show.

    #107946
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    If that’s the argument (which, I admit, at least makes some sense) then why not refer to the series by years? It is definitely a problem when the same show as two series 1s in 5 years, no matter what the justification is.

    I’d also argue that this hypothetical new viewer would find this new series 1 and then be safe in the knowledge that they’ve started from the beginning and not even bother to seek out the first series 1. Oh, and as they’re browsing around iTunes, they see series 2 and think “cool, another series I’ll download that” and before you know it people have a wholly *different* reason to be angry with New Earth.

    If you’re taking a view that your audience are too stupid and fickle to deal with high series numbers, or to be aware of the nature of Doctor Who and it’s rebooting, then you’ve also got to assume that they’re too stupid to deal with a show that has doubled up its series numbers.

    #107947
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >If that?s the argument (which, I admit, at least makes some sense) then why not refer to the series by years?

    Well, because then the same casual viewers won’t have a clue which series represents the start of the aforementioned new era, innit.

    #107948
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Well, because then the same casual viewers won?t have a clue which series represents the start of the aforementioned new era, innit.

    Putting aside for a moment that I believe this was YOUR IDEA (or Julian’s, I forget) I can’t see why in the World this would be an issue. Again, this is assuming too much ignorance of these viewers, quite aside from the fact that casual viewers wont give two stuffs about new eras. The only thing they need is a clear indication of how one series relates to any other in the context of Doctor Who not RTD and Moffat.

    #107949
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Lot’s o’ lovely pictures from the filming of Richard Curtis’s episode here:

    http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-series-filming-pics.html

    #107950
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Karen seems to love wearing very short skirts, in her interview with Matt in DWM she said it makes her feel sassy, sass on Karen, sass on.

    #107951
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Karen seems to love wearing very short skirts

    Not as much as I’d wager Moff loves her wearing short skirts.

    #107953
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Meet Andrew Ellard and shake hands with a walking continent of common sense.*

    *Disclaimer: quote may be mangled beyond all recognition.

    #107952
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Meet Andrew Ellard and shake hands with a walking continent of common sense.

    And typos, sadly. Sorry for flow-breaking, but EDITED to make some of the language English:

    So far as I can see, every alternative has its merits and faults. It’s perfectly possible to see all sides, since they all have a point.

    ‘Series One’ obviously has a lot of ‘fresh start’ feel. It does what the new Trek movie did, really – made it sound like its own thing. It’s easy to understand why it has a use, that newcomers don’t feel like they’re behind. (I’m not watching Spooks because I arrived to the party late. If there was a clear ‘fresh start’ moment, I might join up.)

    But it’s also messy. As has been pointed out, two series ones within much less than decade is pretty ugly. Some people thought Batman Begins was a prequel rather than a reboot because it was in relatively close proximity to the last of the previous Batman film series. Using ‘series one’ is the opposite – it implies reboot to something that’s actually a continuation. And of something HUGELY popular, not a show that’s losing viewers at it becomes more self-involved.

    So calling it series one will encourage some viewers, yes, but it’s not like that was an problematic area. It’s medicating a condition the patient doesn’t suffer from. It’s also not the way the first wave of viewers will come to the show – ‘Series One’ doesn’t appear on-screen. It’s just ‘The One With The New Doctor’, and as such already feels plenty new-start-y in its marketing without some labelling on the paperwork.

    And, as has been said searches online get harder now, not easier. In the years to come people will have to do active research before they can be sure what they’re considering paying for is what they want. Which is a barrier to purchase and involvement in an era of download-to-view – a hindrance as much as a help.

    The ‘new Doctor, first series’ argument is valid enough. It’s a first, but there’s no rule that says you can’t do something first. Different bosses will make different decisions. Still, I doubt Moffat would do it again if he ended up having to change Docs half-way through his own run…

    ‘Series Five’ is a clear continuation of the current, modern success. It makes a measure of sense, since you want that audience to follow on. Since, on screen, it just says ‘Doctor Who’, very few will be swayed to watching or not watching based on a series number they won’t see at that point – meanwhile it helps the current downloaders stay on track.

    Moff’s argument that it makes no sense to call it Five is spurious, though. This new series isn’t coming after lengthy hiatus, it’s not part of a wholesale reinvention – it’s a continuance of a reinvention. The difference between the ’89 and ’05 shows is going to be much larger than between ’09 and ’10. New leading man is no different than Tennant’s start. New sets don’t matter to newcomers OR returnees. And the argument that ‘everyone knows he’s Doctor 11’ is based on a definition of ‘everyone’ that would make ‘series one’ just as invalid.

    That ‘series five’ sounds ‘ageing’ rather than ‘long running and successful’ is pulled out of thin air. While there’s no shortage of tired, flawed fifth series of shows, nobody assumes tiredness and flaws BECAUSE of that number. I’ve never, ever seen that as a default assumption.

    ‘Series Thirty-One’. Okay, maybe that does sound old. Certainly it’s bewildering for the huge number of New Who fans. It won’t confuse newcomers and it makes sense to classic fans. Only ’05+ fans – generally kids – get baffled by that. But that’s a massive part of the audience and worth paying attention to.

    It barely matters for the most part, since it’s easy for fans to talk about ‘Moffat series one’ (no worse than talking about a fifth series and having to differentiate between the 60s one and the present one, anyway), and while it’s on the air it’ll be “Did you see Doctor Who last night?’ anyway. The number barely matters…

    …except to the onliners. People searching iTunes, torrents and web resources. And if there’s where it’s seen and matters most, it’s hard to see ‘series one’ as anything other than a dopy decision.

    #107954
    Nick R
    Participant

    In lighter news:

    http://www.holymoly.com/sites/default/files/imce/doctor-who-facebook-page.jpg

    Superb.

    “The Master likes this”
    “…”

    EDIT: The same person’s also done one for the Master! Love his sixth friend…
    http://the-hellish-gnome.deviantart.com/art/The-Master-s-Facebook-Page-148491314

    #107976
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Epic – I love stuff like that!

    #107978
    pfm
    Participant

    I’m sorry but HOW gorgeous does Karen look in the new pics…somebody please…hold me back. :p

    #107982
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > somebody please?hold me back. :p

    *calls the Police*

    #107983
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I don’t know what you expect Sting to be able to do.

    #108000
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Andrew said (in the other thread) “Actually, yeah – Jack?s origin in a Moffat story and Sarah Jane?s in old Who might make them exceptions. (Am I right in thinking Moff?s the only one who knows the truth about Jack?s missing memory?)”

    I get the feeling this has, rather aptly, been forgotten about. They’ve dumped so much mystery on Jack (his past on Earth revealed in CofE, that bollcoks about him being the FoB, the immortality thing), that it just seems kind of inconsequential now. A shame, as it was intriguing.

    I don’t think we’ll see CJ in Who any more though. If RTD is going to continue with Torchwood, it seems odd to loan him out to Moffat occasionally. Plus, Matt Smith’s Doctor seems a bit more rough and ready, so they probably don’t need the “muscle” in Who any more.

    #108002
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I don?t think we?ll see CJ in Who any more though.

    I dunno – after The West Wing I think she’s available…

    #108004
    pfm
    Participant

    Jack was still an RTD creation even if his first ep, and obviously a lot of his character, was Moffat’s. Though if anyone were to return I think he’d be the most likely. Maybe Matt Smith could appear in the very last SJA or something but I reckon her time in Who itself is over.

    #108007
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    I’d imagine the powers that be would be interested in maintaining the Sarah-Jane link because that audience would flow naturally into Who’s current and future audience. It depends where they take Torchwood as to whether or not the same could be said for Captain Jack.

    #108010
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    I’m sorry to come late to this, but would it make more sense to refer to the new Doctor Who series in terms of volumes as well? So taking the new Who as the starting point (which has been pretty much adopted): Volume 1, series 1-4 (plus specials), then Volume 2, series 1-?

    #108012
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Works for comics, they’re always bloody renumbering themselves.

    #108013
    Ridley
    Participant

    So Doctor Who Volume 2 Series 1 (New Series 5 (Season 31))?

    I don’t like that simply because it feels like it glorifies the head writer over the programme.

    #108015
    pfm
    Participant

    I really don’t like that he said ‘”series 5″ means nothing’. If he was rebooting the show then fair enough but his first episode follows immediately on from The End of Time Pt.2 which IS technically the last episode of series 4. River Song was created for series 4 and is obviously going to be a major part of Moffat’s tenure. The Weeping Angels from series 3 appear. etc. etc. As far as writers go, only Richard Curtis and Simon Nye are non-returnees from RTD’s era.

    It’s the same show as RTD era series’ 1-4.

    #108016
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >So Doctor Who Volume 2 Series 1 (New Series 5 (Season 31))?

    >I don?t like that simply because it feels like it glorifies the head writer over the programme.

    Yeah, but they’ve already done that by choosing to reboot the numbering with a new showrunner, haven’t they? The convention alone hasn’t had that effect: it’s simply a response.

    #108018
    Jo
    Participant

    >> I don?t think we?ll see CJ in Who any more though.

    >I dunno – after The West Wing I think she?s available?

    :oD

    #108019
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    CJ is currently sleeping off her tea on a big cushion.

    #108020
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    I think I’ve a way around all these silly numbering issues. Let’s just call it the best Who.

    Disclaimer: Unless it’s like… you know, not.

    #108021
    ChrisM
    Participant

    If* there’s an overall theme and/or story arc running through the series I wouldn’t mind the series being named after that rather than numbered. Of course they should keep it suitably vague to avoid spoilers for those buying the DVDs later who never saw the televised version. (The title doesn’t need to be mentioned on the telly. I rarely take note of the series numbering but I always know it’s a new series.)

    *That could be a bit ‘if’ though as most Who stories are pretty self contained but there’s usually something. Bad Wolf. Drums. Etc.

    #108022
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The problem with that is naming the 2005 series “Bad Wolf” on the DVD box set kind of ruins it. We weren’t told about Bad Wolf before the series ran, and it got fans talking and speculating. Granted that’s not something a new viewer is going to care about, but it’s much more fun to pick up on this stuff yourself then it is to have it spelled out for you before you’ve even seen the first episode.

    When I introduced Michelle to Doctor Who, she picked up on Bad Wolf and Vote Saxon by herself (the “Vote Saxon” thing was a pretty good find for her, actually – she saw the poster in the background during “Smith and Jones” and remembered seeing it in “Captain Jack Harkness” in Torchwood… even I missed that on the first viewing). She asked me a ton of questions that I refused to answer for her.

    #108024
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Point taken. That was just an example off the top of my head, but the concept of naming a series by title should work. Granted it would need to be suitably vague.

    #108035
    pfm
    Participant

    How about calling it ‘season 1’. Or ‘The Complete David Tennant Isn’t In It Anymore So Why Bother I’ll Tell You Why It’s Matt Smith Oh And You Can Suck Moffat’s Cock Harder Than Ever Now He’s Showrunner And You Won’t Be Being Gay Because RTD’s Gone Oh And Look It’s The Weeping Angels From That Episode It’s Proper Real Doctor Who Better Than Jekyll Promise – Series 1’

    ‘The Eleventh Doctor – The Complete First Series’ is more likely.

    #108038
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >How about calling it ?season 1?.

    We already have one of those, 1963-1964.

    #108042
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Argh, you’re all melting my brain! :P Let’s just go by the Doctors. So we’ve just finished 10 (volumes 1-3) and we’re entering season 11 now. Sure, each season would be a completely different length but it would make sense?

    #108045

    I agree.

    #108052
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Yeah, I wouldn’t mind that either. A lot of older DVDs are listed by the actor’s name after all. Mind you they tend to be collected by story rather than series, but it would work. Doctor and year.

    Oh, whatever. It doesn’t really matter.

    Onto something else- I’m interested to see more of the tardis. Ok, I already have a bit with the odd picture here and there but that’s not the same. I wonder if he will actually has to rebuild, moving struts etc, or if it’s just a Tardis healing/regeneration thing, it (or should I say ‘she’) being a living organism and all.

    A couple more rooms would be nice too.

    #108053
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Why is it so confusing? Just call the 9th Doc series ‘Series 1’, call the 11th ‘Series One’.

    #108057
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    WILL EVERYONE STOP TALKING ABOUT SERIES NUMBERING NOW PLEASE

    #108058
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I’m fairly close to declaring an outright ban.

    #108059
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > I?m fairly close to declaring an outright ban.

    So long as it immediately follows declaring me the outright winner.

    #108060
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Why is it so confusing? Just call the 9th Doc series ?Series 1?, call the 11th ?Series One?.

    Yes, I can’t see this causing any confusion at all.

    SoundableObject wins. The End.

    #108061
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.

    #108062
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Hence “The End”.

    #108063
    Somebody
    Participant

    > Yeah, I wouldn?t mind that either. A lot of older DVDs are listed by the actor?s name after all. Mind you they tend to be collected by story rather than series, but it would work. Doctor and year.

    There’s about only about three years’ worth of releases left by-story (including a few tricky ones where most, but not ALL, of their episodes are intact). Once they’re done, I’m sure they’ll rerelease them as “Doctor 5, series 1”, etc (since McCoy’s in nearly a quarter of the TVM, they’ll probably bung that in with his last series. Or even, given how short his three series are, just do a “Complete Seventh and Eighth Doctors” set).

    #108064
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I’m going to call it Moff-who. Although I’m not suggesting that should be official. Although it would be amusing if it was.

    So… the new look of the inside of the tardis then…. (Snigger. Note, to self, try a different angle..)

    Is that Tardis ‘healing’ thing something specific to New Who (i.e. like when it heals after colliding with the Titanic. From the little I’ve seen of Old Who, damage required an extensive old school repair job, although that was usually components rather than large bits of the ship’s structure). Slightly off topic I guess but I’m just wondering how the new console room will be explained from an in-world perspective. Not that we probably won’t find out when we see it, but it’s something else to discuss apart from numbering.

    #108065
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I think in this case the TARDIS ‘healing’ will be the reason for the console room change, but the fact that it’s been altered so much over the history of the show I think it’s safe to assume that The Doctor can rebuild and move around rooms as he pleases.

    #108066
    Somebody
    Participant

    The Fifth Doctor said that they could reconfigure the Tardis interior more-or-less at will in Castrovalva, didn’t he?

    #108069
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Ah, yes, that’s what I was thinking of! I knew it’d been mentioned before, but I wasn’t sure if it was in the show or in Big Finish’s fan fiction.

    #108070
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    My guess is that the basic shape/layout are going to be much the same as before, including the round console – but it’ll all get a spruce up, and the coral will all be gone, with an overriding silver/metal finish instead.

    #108072
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    AND A BIG STAIRCASE.

    I’m sure it’ll be lovely, anyway, especially if they manage to create new rooms, corridors.

    I wonder if they’ll keep the look secret until transmission of episode 1? I image there’ll be a load of promotional photos soon, but I hope this is saved.

    #108073
    Ridley
    Participant
    #108076
    Somebody
    Participant

    There were also a couple of partial shots in the trailer:

    From beneath the console (incomplete?): http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dw9-570×323.jpg

    And behind Doctor & River: http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dw11-570×323.jpg

    #108077
    pfm
    Participant

    I think it would be a great idea to do some more ‘do you wanna come with me?’ style trailers (they’re still the best ever), new Tardis interior included. There’s no real need to keep the look totally secret for episode 1.

    Seriously, how psyched did this trailer get everyone??

    #108078
    Somebody
    Participant

    EDIT: Damn pagirritation. This was posted in response to performingmonkey posting the 2005 “Trip of a lifetime” trailer, and appears even randomer without it directly above…

    #108079
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Ahaha, I’ve made a fool of you.

    Just upped the limit a bit. Hopefully we wont get any memory errors.

    #108080
    Somebody
    Participant

    Johnnnnaatthhhaannn…!

    #108094
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108095
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108096
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108097
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108098
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108099
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108100
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108101
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..

    Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)

    Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.

    #108102
    steven87gill
    Participant

    .comment deleted due me being an idiot and double posting it.

    #108103
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Thank God you fixed that one.

    #108104
    redhead85
    Participant

    steven87gill x 9 duplicate posts = EPIC FAIL

    I like maths. ^__^

    #108105
    Andrew
    Participant

    Does anyone know what hair colour we can expect from Doc 11s first companion?

    #108106
    steven87gill
    Participant

    .due me being an idiot and double posting it..

    Erm, that .could. be somewhat of an understatement

    ‘walks away ashamed with head in hands’ :(

    #108107
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Just upped the limit a bit.

    Keep feeling pagination, passion burning, love so strong.

    #108116
    JamesTC
    Participant

    If they’re going to return any companion they need to return the Brig, only the 9th and 10th Doctors have never met him up to now (though the 10th was meant to in ‘The Wedding of Sarah Jane’ I think).

    #108122
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >only the 9th and 10th Doctors have never met him up to now

    Sixth?

    (if you say Big Finish so help me god I’ll slug you)

    #108123
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > (if you say Big Finish so help me god I?ll slug you)

    It’s worse than that, Ted… it’s Dimensions In Time.

    #108124
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I was thinking of both actually, ‘The Spectre Of Lanyon Moore’ is fucking fantastic. Wether you think it is canon or not it had that Doc meet the Brig, same with ‘Minuet in Hell’ for Paul McGann.

    #108139
    Alex
    Participant

    Just a shame that ?Minuet in Hell? was so monumentally shit.

    #108147
    Somebody
    Participant

    Haven’t heard MiH, since Radio 7 skipped it on their run-through the earlier 8th Doctor audios (which I didn’t take for a promising sign).

    Chimes of Midnight, however, lived up to its’ billing, and I liked Scherzo (though didn’t get any more 8th Dr audios after it, since the rest of the other universe thing has a poor rep).

    #108151
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >Haven?t heard MiH, since Radio 7 skipped it on their run-through the earlier 8th Doctor audios (which I didn?t take for a promising sign).

    It was because it wasn’t suitable for the time it would air, not because it was crap.

    #108152
    Alex
    Participant

    If I remember correctly wasn’t it due to radio 7 the them editing out the Charlie arc as much as possible in the series? Or am I just talking a load of old bollocks?

    #108169

    MILD, YET OBVIOUS, SPOILER ABOUT ONE OF PAUL MCGANN’S AUDIO ADVENTURES!

    It probably doesn’t matter but I like to think putting warnings at the beginning of posts make them seem more foreboding, even if it’s just to inform people that you’re eating a jam tart while typing. :)

    Paul McGann’s audio adventures aren’t canon, are they? They had Rassillon get killed in it in “Zagreus”, unless I’m remembering it wrong. It’s been a long time since I’ve bothered to listen to that story (because it’s so long, I know a lot of people think it’s rubbish but I was prepared; I lowered my expectations and enjoyed it).

    #108182
    Muzzy
    Participant

    I always thought the Big Finish audios must be generally well regarded. I think that’s mostly informed by how long they’ve been running though as I’ve not really heard that many of them. Am I under the wrong impression?

    #108185
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    > Paul McGann?s audio adventures aren?t canon, are they?

    What is and isn’t canon is largely up to each individual. Remember that the Master had died in a bunch of different mediums, including the TV series itself, and still comes back time and again.

    Personally I look upon the Doctor Who novels and audios in the same way Lucasfilm look at the Star Wars Expanded Universe – the books and audios are canon, expect where contradicted by the TV series which takes precedent.

    #108187

    “I always thought the Big Finish audios must be generally well regarded. I think that?s mostly informed by how long they?ve been running though as I?ve not really heard that many of them. Am I under the wrong impression?”

    Oh no, they are well regarded. “Neverland” is a classic, but “Zagreus” was the one after it and was produced on a Who anniversary (I forget which one, might have been the 50th), plus there was a long gap between the cliff hanger and conclusion. Basically “Zagreus” had so much of a build up that it was never going to match people’s expectations. Although, to be honest, I enjoyed it, the only thing that I find personally wrong with it is the whole thing is about 3 hours.

    #108188
    Alex
    Participant

    Paul McGann?s audio adventures aren?t canon, are they? They had Rassillon get killed in it in ?Zagreus?, unless I?m remembering it wrong. It?s been a long time since I?ve bothered to listen to that story (because it?s so long, I know a lot of people think it?s rubbish but I was prepared; I lowered my expectations and enjoyed it).

    No, he was back only a few stories later.

    #108189

    Oh right, fair enough, I didn’t know that.

    #108200
    Phil1034
    Participant

    > Paul McGann?s audio adventures aren?t canon, are they?

    I watched a panel with Paul Cornell on canonicity at Novelcon (in Manchester, while most people were Dimension Jumping this year). He said he believes everything, ever is canoinical- 60s Dalek films, DIT, NA’s, EDA’s, Comics, Big Finish, Curse of Fatal Death, Shalka…the lot!

    #108206

    So both Shada’s are canon? ;-)

    #108215
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >So both Shada?s are canon? ;-)

    Quite easily. Tom did ‘Shada’ and then the events of ‘The Five Doctors’ changed history and made the Paul McGann version of ‘Shada’ possible.

    As for wether the audios and all that are canon well Who has no canon really. You come up with your own personal continuity.

    Frankly ‘Zagreus’ having Rassilon killed doesn’t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.

    #108216

    Just while I have the opportunity to tell this story about Paul McGann: Well… not really about him more about my mum. (Hey, it’s still interesting!) Sort of… Anyway, I went to Collectomania in Manchester a few years back, where Paul McGann was doing a Q&A (solo, as Colin Baker didn’t turn up for some reason, despite being in the same building) and my mum asked him if he enjoyed being the first Liverpudlian Doctor. He told her that Tom Baker was actually from Liverpool. There was about a minute silence, which is a long time when you’ve turned up to Collectomania with your mum who’s tried to make a joke but it’s back fired.
    But it wasn’t as bad as the following year where Chris Barrie and Craig Charles were doing a Q&A and as we were leaving, we saw Craig lighting up a cigarette outside and my mum whipsered (capitals needed to emphasise the loudness of her whispering) “it’s Craig Charles… HE’S SMOKING :O”. He smiled and nodded in our direction, but at least that time my moment of slight embarrassment was halved as my brother had come that time too.
    I rarely have an excuse to tell these sort of pointless stories so I’m going to go with my third and final one, which is just about how when at the first Collectomania I went to when Simon Pegg and Nick Frost were giving a talk about Hot Fuzz and at the end Nick was handing out t-shirts and my mum ran up to him waving in his face and saying “hellooooo” and he waved back in her face and went “helloooooo”. I suffered from chronic fan meltdown and tried to say something to Simon Pegg but all I could do was shake his hand and tremble “thank…you”. Since then I’ve lost a remarkable amount of respect for myself, I didn’t know I was such a weedy twat in front of celebrities I like.
    I’m pretty sure I’d punch Tom Cruise in his stupid, tiny face if I ever met him though, even if I was hunted down by scientologists for the rest of my life.

    #108217

    “Frankly ?Zagreus? having Rassilon killed doesn?t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.”

    Oh yeah and as for the Rassilon thing, I did sort of kinda think (I’m good at sentence structure at this time in the morning, eh?) that Tennant calling him Rassilon could’ve been a title or, as you say, that he’s been brought back using the Matrix in the form of a great actor Timothy Dalton instead of… I don’t think it’s controversial to say that Don Warrington can’t act; my family all agree that he can’t but I don’t know if people on here agree. Of course, I’m basing this purely on Rising Damp, I can’t really remember what he was like in Doctor Who (the TV and the audio adventure), and I don’t think he was bad in Dwarf, although you’ve got to admit (or not) that Craig is the reason his scene is funny.

    #108219
    redhead85
    Participant

    > Simon Pegg and Nick Frost were giving a talk about Hot Fuzz and at the end Nick was handing out t-shirts and my mum ran up to him waving in his face and saying ?hellooooo? and he waved back in her face and went ?helloooooo?. I suffered from chronic fan meltdown and tried to say something to Simon Pegg but all I could do was shake his hand and tremble ?thank?you?. Since then I?ve lost a remarkable amount of respect for myself, I didn?t know I was such a weedy twat in front of celebrities I like.

    I go rather eccentric in front of celebrities.

    The time I met Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, I was drinking in a pub near Oxford Street on a random weekday lunchtime with my two bosses and we were literally the only three people in the pub. I went up to the bar to order drinks and a guy walked in and stood at the bar next to me – Simon Pegg. I totally squee-d, shook his hand and introduced myself and told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t’were. I went back to my table and he ordered a couple of drinks. Just as I was wondering ‘why two drinks?’ in walks Nick Frost! I raise my drink to him and he smiles and waves back and the pair settle into their drinks.

    ‘Do you know them?’ my boss asks.

    GAH! Stooopid people annoy me. ^__^

    #108221

    “?Do you know them?? my boss asks.”

    Out of interest, was this before Run Fatboy Run was released? I know Shaun of the Dead is still pretty much a cult film (although everyone I know has heard of it, so I may be wrong there) but since then he’s been in so many films that people should recognise him from adverts with or without beard.

    Alas, I only came into Spaced after Shaun of the Dead, so though I may love everything Simon Pegg has done (except for the Big Nothing which I can’t bring myself to watch for fear of it being terrible) I can’t be called a true fan, the same way any Modest Mouse fan who started listening to them after their hit isn’t a true fan… which includes me again.

    Hell, I don’t think I’ve followed ANYTHING from the beginning apart from the Inbetweeners, and I think I’ve already mentioned my claim to someone else’s fame within the past six hours so I won’t repeat myself.

    Oh yeah, and I’m actually very jealous that you met him in a pub! A social arena of drinking instead of a mini convention… Seems more and IS more intimate. I spend a lot of time in pubs since all my friends are either alcoholics or alcoholic students, and the only person I’ve met in a pub is someone who claimed he was a rock icon from “back in the day”. This guy kept rabbiting on about having played with Joe Strummer or Ian Dury or someone with that sort of punk attitude.
    I always try to downplay the fanboy part of my personality, and I’m often described as cynical about celebrities, but every time I meet someone I’ve admired from a TV screen I end up like Bernard Black when he meets that guy out of Green Wing playing that explorer. His name escapes me at the moment.

    #108222
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    that guy out of Green Wing playing that explorer. His name escapes me at the moment.

    Julian Rhind-Tutt ‘is name is :D

    #108223

    Julian Rhind-Tutt’s hair is inconsistent in style in the first episode of Green Wing, but consistent in sheer amazingness over the course of the episode. I can’t remember his hair in any other episode, I just remember noticing that there was a scene in the first series where his hair looked permed in a random scene, or something like that. I might be remembering wrong but I’m pretty sure it’s at least a little bit true.

    #108225
    redhead85
    Participant

    > Out of interest, was this before Run Fatboy Run was released?

    Gahh…I can’t remember. I was working with those bosses from April 2007 – July 2008 so it would have been somewhere in between there I guess.

    > I may love everything Simon Pegg has done (except for the Big Nothing which I can?t bring myself to watch for fear of it being terrible)

    You MUST see the Big Nothing – it’s a fantastic film. A real thriller and keeps you guessing right up until the last 30 seconds of the film.

    > Oh yeah, and I?m actually very jealous that you met him in a pub!

    ^__^ T’was great.

    #108229
    Carlito
    Participant

    > told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t?were

    I was a fan of Pegg via We Know Where You Live, one of Channel 5’s early ‘nightly comedy’ installments… yeah, I was also one of maybe 5 people who would watch The Jack Docherty Show every night too.

    Also, Big Train and his memorable appearance in I’m Alan Partridge all came before Spaced. Quite randomly, considering I thought very highly of Pegg, I only watched Spaced for the first time about a year ago.

    Actually feeling a bit like Frank Doberman, the Self-Righteous Brother from Harry Enfield, for referring to the man simply as “Pegg” throughout this post. Oiii! Pegg! Noooo!

    #108230
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’ve been a fan of Simon Pegg since I saw him in his school nativity play in 1976. He nailed the part of the Inn Keeper.

    #108231
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I first really saw Simon Pegg in “Is it Bill Bailey” as the crap shepherd.

    Why won’t they release this on DVD?

    “I was sat in the living room, eating a potato waffle. My wife was enjoying a Pot Noodle, what flavour was it love, Beef and Tomato? Don’t be daft, woman, you’re allergic…”

    I do love Big Train, though. Some brilliant ideas in there.

    #108232
    redhead85
    Participant

    > told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t?were

    > Also, Big Train and his memorable appearance in I?m Alan Partridge all came before Spaced. Quite randomly, considering I thought very highly of Pegg, I only watched Spaced for the first time about a year ago.

    His words, not mine. We were perhaps referring to the programmes where he was the main focus or co-writing in the earlier days, not every single entry on his IMDB page. Can’t stand those programmes anyways, although I did like The Day Today.

    > I?ve been a fan of Simon Pegg since I saw him in his school nativity play in 1976. He nailed the part of the Inn Keeper.

    He was robbed for the Best Supporting Actor Oscar that year.

    #108235
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Frankly ?Zagreus? having Rassilon killed doesn?t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.

    RTD confirms in The Writer’s Tale 2 : Electric Boogaloo that it is THE Rassilon, and that the Time Lords basically just brought back EVERYONE to fight in the Time War (including the Doctor’s mother).

    #108239
    Phil1034
    Participant

    > The Writer?s Tale 2

    Worth getting if you’ve already got the first one? Or am I just going to grumble about duplicating content I already have?

    #108240
    Andrew
    Participant

    Titbits from the update book, please!

    One assumes the ‘Doctor’s mother’ reference wraps up the identity of Wilf’s imaginary friend…?

    #108242
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >Worth getting if you?ve already got the first one?

    God, yes.

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