Star Trek Crap

[Warbodog]

Sorry to lower the tone and for being so early in the morning. But if you’re a fan of ageing sci-fi franchises generally, or a fan of complaining about them, here are some things going on with Star Trek at the moment:

– Star Trek: Short Treks. Out Now! 4 x short episodes (10-15 mins) being released once a month before Discovery returns. Minimal and supplemental, but proper stories rather than DVD-padding minisodes. The second one (Calypso) is the most Trek has intrigued me since the 90s, written by Michael Chabon. I don’t know where you can watch these where you live.

– Discovery season 2 starts in January. Hope it’s good. I found S1 watchable and they’ve already concluded (abandoned) the war arc I didn’t like. Fan service tends to repel rather than attract me, but I have a soft spot for the ‘lost’ Captain Pike era (I probably watched ‘The Cage’ more than any other episode as a kid), so I’m more interested to see their take on that vaguely-defined crew than watching another reboot of Kirk & co.

– Star Trek: Lower Decks. An adult animated sitcom in development focusing on the humdrum lives of Starfleet technicians. Creator Mike McMahan explains, “I want to do a show about the people who put the yellow cartridge in the food replicator so a banana can come out the other end.” Where do they get their crazy ideas from? Maybe the same places Rob and Doug did, it’s not that similar really.

– Picard series in development starring Patrick Stewart. I didn’t find this announcement exciting, because I prefer new things, but I just found out Michael Chabon’s on the writing team, which will help. Excitement may come as details are released.

– Various rumours about other shows or miniseries invariably centred around existing characters and concepts, but I don’t think anything’s been confirmed and may all be uninteresting clickbait.

– Reboot Star Trek 4 is supposedly stuck in development hell, and something about a weird Tarantino proposal. I don’t care about the films any more.

But never mind that tot – best Trek film? I’d probably go with VI, because I love how timely its analogy is at the end of an era, but 1-IV are all classics or comfort watches in their own ways.

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

Nemesis has some real nice Star Trek moments and characterisation in it, but it is so unrelentingly cruel and unnecessarily bleak, everything is so dingy and dark and violent, it just isn’t Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Stewart had a lot of involvement and it was written by Brent Spiner’s mate, so they had a big hand in it, yes. But ugh, you feel like you need to take a shower after watching that movie.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It was also directed by someone that had never seen Star Trek before and didn’t understand it at all. So lots of important character moments and such are cut out.

[(deleted)]

A lot of the criticism of Nemesis comes down to how unfamiliar with Star Trek Stuart Baird was – a few of the cast have been exceptionally bitchy on this score. But given that virtually all the criticisms of Insurrection correctly focused in on the point that it was too obviously the product of a well-oiled clique of tired creatives all giving it More Of The Same (TM), then bringing in newcomers was literally the only solution to that. I agree that the tone of the film is unpalatably nasty and that it’s downright dull in places, but none of these are the fault of the fact the director wasn’t a chummy veteran of a hacky production line already on the bones of its arse. A few more cringey comedy set pieces with the regular cast members wouldn’t have undone the fact that the public were bored of Star Trek and its ubiquity, and that 15 years down the line TNG had not only outstayed its welcome but was too evidently pleased with itself to a slappable degree. A truly noble failure is worth ten mediocre minor hits, and it *was* a noble failure, which Insurrection and Enterprise weren’t. There are only two hours of Star Trek that resemble Nemesis, and about a million hours of the version people say it should have been more like. In a world where the same Marvel film comes out every three months with the title changed we have to cherish the idea of franchises leaving their comfort zone once in a while. Even if – especially if – it doesn’t work.

[(deleted)]

There is a much longer 3 hour rough cut of Nemesis with a lot more character stuff and humour, and apparently it’s much worse than the one that came out.

I suppose the big issue with Nemesis now is that virtually every action, horror, scifi and fantasy film from about 98-04 shares an aesthetic that looks laughably cheap, naff, small and thoroughly unappealing now. From when they were starting to do a lot more digital grading to push more extreme and high contrast photographic looks and it’s just ridiculously amateurish to modern eyes. And Nemesis definitely has that Blade/Underworld-esque shiteyness to its look…

[Ben Saunders]

Insurrection is one of the most blatant and egregious male power fantasy movies of all time in parts, Jonathan Frakes clearly loves himself and depicts himself as this sexy space badass, with his manual control column and that female ensign who looks at him like he just flooded her underwear. It’s almost grotesque.

It also has more than a few logical issues and turns into C-grade action schlock towards the end with the villain, the explosions, the “we’re getting too old for this” and the “time’s up”.

[Veni]

So I finally got around to watching Nemesis and… I enjoyed it. I don’t know exactly how to express why I liked it, but me being a viewer of purely the films (and not even all of them) I think it helped I wasn’t attached to anyone apart from Picard and Data. I don’t know though, I have the least to say about this one but I had fun.

[Ben Saunders]

Troi getting RAPED and then told to keep doing her job is horrendous

[Veni]

That… kinda went past me. Huh. Dampens my vibe now when you think about it.

[Ben Saunders]

PICARD: Deanna, can you describe it?
TROI: It was a… It was a violation. …Shinzon’s Viceroy seems to have the ability to reach into my thoughts. I’ve become a liability. I request to be relieved of my duties.
PICARD: Permission denied. If you can endure more of these assaults, I need you at my side now, more than ever. The Enterprise is far from Federation space and…

IF YOU CAN ENDURE MORE OF THESE ASSAULTS

That’s just part of the deeply unpleasant seediness than underpins Nemesis. It does have some nice moments, and overall I think it’s ok, but as a Star Trek: The Next Generation movie, particularly the final one… it’s just so yucky.

[Warbodog]

Luxury. When I were lad, had to pay t’ £12.99 RRP for 88 minutes of episodes (including credits) in sub-SD quality that sadistically deteriorated the more you watched it.

Still, at least they paid attention to the artwork to make the videos worth collecting, like this lovely one where the bluescreen background isn’t filled in and this one that uses a rehearsal shot.

The re-released videos were better value (£9.99 for 3 or 4 episodes) and nicer, but that was a dark time when for a while the only TNG and Red Dwarf you could buy or see on terrestrial TV was the weaker seasons. By the time they were re-releasing the stronger seasons, I wasn’t buying videos any more.

I hope Red Dwarf in HD is released for legal paid download in obscure foreign territories, I don’t have a Blu-ray player and don’t like physical belongings any more.

[Technopeasant]

Got to Code of Honor on my TNG watchthrough when we get hit by a tornado warning…

[tombow]

Started watching Discovery for the first time from ep 1. I stopped at the episodes in season 2 where they retrieve the doctor boyfriend who the brainwashed clone/agent guy killed from the mushroom realm. It was too stressful how they were chilling out talking in the fungus realm while the ship was breaking apart.

[Rushy]

Started watching Discovery 

[Ben Saunders]

I haven’t even finished Voyager or Enterprise, I don’t think I’ll ever get around to watching anything post-Berman, and it has never sounded like I’m missing much

[Rushy]

I think the 2009 film is rather good, but that’s where it ends for me. It’s worth it alone for Nimoy’s Spock interacting with a young Kirk. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I haven’t even finished Voyager or Enterprise, I don’t think I’ll ever get around to watching anything post-Berman, and it has never sounded like I’m missing much

I quite like all the Abrams films. Most don’t but they’re good at what they’re setting out to do. I think the first in particular really explores young Kirk and Spock and how a friendship forms really well. 

The last decade of TV series starting with Discovery is really hit and miss. I’ve not watched them all completely. But I’ve seen at least a series of each (except Academy) and the only show I genuinely really enjoy and am waiting for the next series to air is Strange New Worlds. That is a show for fans of TOS and TNG. It’s what a lot of people would consider “Star Trek”

If you don’t watch anything else I’d really recommend SNW

[Ben Saunders]

What about Picard Season 3? I hear they course-corrected and essentially made a TNG season 8, but the first season of that dogpile was so abominable I sort of can’t believe it would be any good.

[Rushy]

What about Picard Season 3? I hear they course-corrected and essentially made a TNG season 8, but the first season of that dogpile was so abominable I sort of can’t believe it would be any good.

It’s a weird mix of the old and modern styles. Very entertaining at times, and there’s some truly heartfelt moments. But you still have to turn off your brain.

[tombow]

Discovery seems a bit of a patchwork of shows that were popular at the time (there’s bits directly nicked from stuff like game of thrones) but I did really like season one and I’m hoping to enjoy season 3

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

What about Picard Season 3? I hear they course-corrected and essentially made a TNG season 8, but the first season of that dogpile was so abominable I sort of can’t believe it would be any good.

I didn’t watch past S01

Maybe a good movie idea stretched to 10 episodes with a whole heap of bullshit ending

[Unrumble]

What about Picard Season 3? I hear they course-corrected and essentially made a TNG season 8, but the first season of that dogpile was so abominable I sort of can’t believe it would be any good.

I didn’t hate season 1, season 2 was where it really started to come apart at the seams. Then yes, as a child of the TNG era, I enjoyed 3 for its nostalgia-wank. 

[International Debris]

The third season of Picard was ok, had some nice fanservice for those who enjoy nice fanservice, threw in a bit of DS9 for the cultured among us. It was still basically just “remember TNG?” though for the most part. 

First two seasons were terrible. 

The problem is no one seems to think a show like any of the earlier Star Treks would work anymore, so they’ve tweaked the formula to feel more contemporary, but done in a way that basically removes the Star Trekness from it. 

Like, Discovery gets a lot better with the changes for the third season, but it’s still just a very, very different show that happens to share some lore and species with Star Trek.

Strange New Worlds is fun, but it feels very self-aware. In some ways it’s more like, say, The Orville than earlier Trek: it’s making incredibly conscious decisions to feel like a remembered version of what Star Trek used to be like, rather than simply being a natural continuation. 

I don’t know if and how a new series could work that could feel fresh and yet fully in keeping with the earlier series’ broader style. But then, I don’t know if we actually need that. Shows can end, franchises can end. Let’s have proper, genuine new ideas, not half-new ones bolted onto familiar names.

ok this formatting looked shit without me having to edit it. Cappsy fix the fucking site.

[Technopeasant]

Star Trek Beyond was okay. Don’t like Star Trek ’09 and loathe Into Darkness.

I may throw Strange New Worlds on the pile (if only because its less serialized which fits with how I’m watching it week to week with my extended family) but seeing as I have 25 seasons of Berman Trek to go it’ll be awhile.

Really don’t see any reason to bother with Picard or the 32nd century stuff. Though as I’ve alluded to above it’s not as if Star Trek has ever been of unimpeacable quality.

[Nick R]

I haven’t seen any full episodes of it, but I like the clips I’ve seen of Lower Decks.

I watched Picard season 1 when I used to have Amazon Prime. It wasn’t very good.

Has anyone here dared watch the Section 31 movie? Is it as irredeemably awful as its reputation suggests?

[Technopeasant]

I get the impression with Lower Decks the filter is if you see the callbacks as clever deconstruction or tedious fanwank. As for me, as someone who hasn’t actually seen it, the fact the lead is the daughter of the Captain who just happens to be a bit of a fuck up kinda spoils the premise of it being about the little people. I do however appreciate it helping to reaffirm the validity of The Animated Series, which I staunchly defend.

[Ben Saunders]

I tried Lower Decks but I just found it exhausting. It’s so Not For Me that it’s pointless me even criticising it. But people seem to love it. I don’t like the manic energy of a toddler spouting continuity porn at me.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I really think Anson Mount is the best thing to happen to Star Trek since the 90s. He is an absolutely perfect for the role he is playing. 

[Warbodog]

Lame new Trek starts with Enterprise for me, Discovery feels more like a continuation of that sort of thing than the start of the modern era. I didn’t mind Discovery when it was being its own thing, until it started bringing in all the classic Trek stuff (a third Spock!) and I stopped watching in like 2019 or whenever this thread was active.

I did like the ‘Calypso’ Short Trek episode.

I watched ‘The Cage’ more times than any Kirk episode and it’s one of my favourite Trek things, but I’m not interested in a Captain Pike recast reboot. The 90s comic run was okay.

TNG ran out of steam by season seven, so I’m not interested in a same-cast revival that’s supposed to be at its best when it’s being more of the same. For that, I can read more of the old novels and comics (sometimes being particularly in the mood for the early ones where they don’t know the characters yet).

I’m not interested in a cartoon or any of the other stuff. I’d feel like a dumb brand slave to be trying that again again again, that’d be like still watching 2020s Doctor Who.

[Flap Jack]

Nobody hates a long running TV series more than its fans.

[tombow]

I love the First Contact film. Watched it with my Dad a couple of times over the years. I know some hardcore Borg fans hate what it does to their lore, but it’s so much fun and “like the TV show but more epic” I have to love it.

[Warbodog]

Seeing First Contact at the cinema was what converted me into being a fan, so I have a lot of love for it, but I think of it more like a nostalgic 90s film it’s best to leave in the memory than one of the classic Trek films I can rewatch any time (II-IV & VI).

I more like the First Contact aspect than the Borg aspect now. I also prefer the unrelated talky TNG episode also titled ‘First Contact’ now, which would be inconceivable to 11 year old me.

[Dave]

First Contact was the first Star Trek film I saw at the cinema, I enjoyed it (and also enjoyed Twentica riffing on it).

[tombow]

at school we had this Christmas cinema trip, and we could see First Contact, Jingle All The Way, or 101 Dalmatians, and all my sci fi/nerdy friends were seeing FC, but I wanted to see Jingle more because I loved Arnie and action/comedy films more then. One of my Trek loving friends called me a traitor. I still don’t regret my choice, I wouldn’t have appreciated FC then, I came to love it later.

[Frank Lewis]

I saw First Contact at the Cinema, too. As well as the other TNG-Era Films and STXI.

I got a Polaroid taken once of me in a little 2-person transporter like on Space Station K-7.

[Technopeasant]

Lame new Trek starts with Enterprise for me

One of my earliest live TV memories was watching Enterprise premiere in 2001 and us all quickly tapping out. Nowadays my interest is more in watching how long running franchises evolve over time than the actual quality of the shows (and it helps that I’m watching with my brothers while liberally taking the piss), which is why it’s on my eventual docket. See you in 2030 at this rate I guess.

I love the First Contact film.

First Contact is the only Star Trek I’ve gotten my wife to genuinely enjoy.

[Unrumble]

I got a Polaroid taken once of me in a little 2-person transporter like on Space Station K-7.

[RunawayTrain]

Discovery series 1 was when I learned the meaning of ‘hate watching’ – I went into it in good faith, expecting to enjoy it, hated it, but felt compelled to keep watching to find out the answer to the mystery.  Never again.

Picard, I went into with mid expectations, expecting it to be on the positive side of neutral and hoping to enjoy it but also aware that I might not.  I watched it all, but did not enjoy it enough to rewatch.  Which is possibly more damning than actively hating it.  There were bits I hated, bits I enjoyed, and overall I just … don’t care.  None of it stuck with me (apart from the brutal way they killed a particular character) despite me having great affection for the characters in their original eras.

Lower Decks I really love, it’s just fun fan service with Star Trek plots, and all the easter eggs make it feel lovingly done to me.  I can see why it might not be for everyone but goodness me it was a welcome return to watching something that did actually feel like Trek.

Strange New Worlds feels like an updated classic Trek, with ~feelings~.  It hasn’t quite gripped me in the same way that TNG, VOY and DS9 did and I haven’t fallen in love with any of the characters, but I do really enjoy watching it and appreciate the plots feeling like Trek.  To me it truly feels like Trek for the modern world.  There’s some intrigue and plenty of threads weaving through, but it’s also episodic enough that each episode is satisfactory.  (Not like Picard which just strung us along for the whole first ten episodes 😒)  

Oh I did also watch the first series of Prodigy, which had a lot of heart.  I thought it must be fantastic for its intended audience.  I’ve not been in the right mindset to rewatch and catch up with the second series yet, but not for anything wrong with it.  It’s different and probably not for everyone but I’m so glad it exists.

I miss seeing people with natural teeth though!  Last time I rewatched TNG, along with the slower pace, that struck me – everyone had perfectly nice, natural teeth without needing Hollywood Smiles.

(I haven’t watched the reboot films.)

[Moonlight]

I bounced hard off Discovery and Picard early in the second and toward the end of the third episodes respectively. SNW was enjoyable enough but I’ve still never bothered to continue it past episode 3. 

I had 5 minutes left on Picard episode 3 when I decided I just don’t fucking care. I’ve sat through back halves of entire movies I was bored by. I just aggressively did not vibe with those two shows.

[Professor Flibble]

Original: Repetitive but fun

Animated: Repetitive but fun. And it has M’ress in it.

Original films: Voyage Home is my favourite, rest are very mixed

Next Gen: I mean it’s pretty solid, innit? Except the first season. 

Next Gen films: First Contact is good. The other three…ehhh

DS9: The best one, I think it speaks for itself 

Voyager: Generally as enjoyable as the other 90s Treks, but its premise falls flat rather quickly

Enterprise: Underrated, gets better as it goes along. Its finale is the worst Star Trek episode ever.

Abbrams films: Their existence doesn’t offend me, in fact I kinda forget they exist sometimes. But they’re alright.

Discovery: Watched the first 3 series. Yawn.

Picard: Watched the first series and a bit of the second. Ugh.

Lower Decks: I like it. The jokes are essentially just references but still it’s probably the most Star Trek feeling one I’ve seen since 2017. 

Prodigy: I’ve not seen it.

Strange: I’ve seen one episode, the musical one. I like that it tries to be Star Trek. Anson Mount is perfect recasting but the rest of the recasting is very shoddy.

Section 31: Heard about its existence in passing. Did it actually come out?

Academy: Not seen it.

[sleepey]

Discovery & Picard had some really good characters & ideas but they never quite got the hang of that serialised storytelling. Most seasons fly off the rails at the end, and/or sag heavily in the middle. That said though, the back half of Disco was pretty great (minus about half an hour of pure wank they tacked onto the end to wrap it up when it got cancelled). Picard was better as a series of novels than a show but it did have its moments – Raffi is a strong contender for my fav Trek character across the whole entire thing.

I ordered the Section 31 movie when it came out but still haven’t worked up the courage to put the disc in.

I’m halfway through Strange New Worlds & Lower decks, they’re both generally good shows but they both have certain recurring “bits” I really don’t care for (Gorn horror movie episodes, Peanut Hamper, Badgey, etc).

Prodigy & Starfleet Academy were both marketed as like, “Trek spinoffs for people who aren’t me”, so I was just going to skip them originally, but then I kept hearing they’re secretly the best ones so I’ll probably give them a go at some point.

[Technopeasant]

Nobody hates a long running TV series more than its fans.

I think people are simply misreading the title. It’s Star Trek Crap, not Crap Star Trek.

[tombow]

my Dad’s told me he likes Strange New Worlds but i haven’t felt drawn to it cause I just don’t feel in the mood for nostalgic classic style Trek. I had enough of that with The Orville and various 60s style fan series I’ve watched like Trek Continues. I’d rather see something new like Discovery or Picard, even if they don’t always live up to their potential. 

[Ben Saunders]

I watched one episode of Star Trek Continues, the Mirror Universe sequel one. I remember thinking it was quite good. Maybe I should watch more.

[Warbodog]

I found this recently when being nostalgic (for a change). A fan has painstakingly recreated the classic mid-90s CIC Video Star Trek trailer using Blu-ray clips (unless they just upscaled with AI and lied about it. Trust is dead. Edit: No, that is the much darker HD 1701-D).

This was on the first Star Trek video I bought after seeing First Contact (Generations – not mentioned on the already-dated reel) and it really psyched me up for the continuing voyage.

[Unrumble]

“I guess we weren’t sufficiently entertaining” is deployed perfectly. 

[Warbodog]

It’s like the Smeg Ups in that I still associate most of these lines with this source when they come up in real episodes. When the TNG Enterprise goes into Spacedock and they shine lights on it, it’s so weird when it doesn’t transform into the Wrath of Khan Enterprise and go to warp.

Another 90s gem was the Customizable Card Game, which I would have loved to waste my limited money on, but I only ever bought a DS9 starter pack to look at because all the other nerds were into Warhammer.

[Ben Saunders]

A fan has painstakingly recreated the classic mid-90s CIC Video Star Trek trailer using Blu-ray clips

Kirk’s voice is pitched up here I think, PAL/NTSC conversion or what?

[Moonlight]

Kirk’s voice is pitched up here I think, PAL/NTSC conversion or what?

It astounds me that nowadays nobody bothers to correct this anymore. I’ve never had a 2000s NTSC DVD of a British show that had this problem but once you hit 2010s stuff like Series X of Red Dwarf you start seeing pitch shifting and other conversion artifacts. The theme song sounds drunk on X, and XI and XI have corrected pitch but have picture quality problems. Also the spines don’t match.

[Technopeasant]

Which is why I imported mine from Ireland.

[Moonlight]

I imported TPL.

[Author]

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