The Classic Doctor Who Thread (1963 to 1989/1996)

[By Jove its holmes]

Fact of the Day: Tom Baker was the first DW series lead who wasn’t a veteran of the Second World War. He had the mercy of a late birth.

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

Planet of Fire is quite good. Davison’s final two scripts are a bit of a kick up the arse in terms of quality and makes you wish for an alternate timeline where he didn’t get boring incomprehensible shash for most of his run. Tiny Master is very funny. Kamelion’s death is sad. Anthony Ainley’s performance is a little phoned in.

[Rushy]

Or why he’s not worried about his companions being erased from history

[Ben Saunders]

Just started Caves of Androzani, which I’ve seen at least twice before. That monster is so shit, it’s like a conscious parody of “oh, you say my script needs a monster, eh, well here one fucking is then.” It’s so starkly noticeable when Who gets a director who actually strives to do more than just point cameras at the actors, a la Warriors Gate, Leisure Hive and Caves. Everything other than the monster is directed with such style, it’s almost distracting. “Look, I’m directing” direction. The whole thing has a funerial vibe to it, and Nicola Bryant does a great job selling everything other than her accent. Script editing a bleak, cynical, death-filled Robert Holmes script must have been a wet dream for Eric Saward.

[Ben Saunders]

This is NOT what he says, come on BBC. Anyone know what the DVD/Blu-Ray subtitle is? He obviously says “slut”. I’ve noticed a lot of errant subtitles on iPlayer, sometimes they say shit like “he mumbles incoherently” when they could have easily transcribed what he actually said, too.

[Dave]

[tombow]

does anyone else think the rope jumping scene in the original Daleks story may have inspired the similar scene in the Dark Knight Rises (Batman) film? The fact that it’s all about the guy not being brave etc

[Ben Saunders]

Just finished Caves of Androzani part 3 and got accepted for a new flat within 10 minutes of each event, so I’m currently riding an unbelievable high. Androzani is so good that I feel like giving it a round of applause as the credits roll.

[Renegade Rob]

Congrats, dude!

[Ben Saunders]

Doctor Who Frames That Describe Themselves

[tombow]

watched 2 episodes of (audio with pictures) Marco Polo today. It was ok. I know people have pointed out DW didn’t go to faraway/non-Western places much in it’s time travel eps after these early days. The bad Mongol man’s outfit reminds me of Robin Hood’s in the Kevin Costner film. Just from the stills it feels like they evoked a faraway place and time quite well.

[Ben Saunders]

In the end, Jek has nothing left but his android. Despite his general ineffectualness, Davison goes out a hero. The doomerism of Saward works for a season finale, bolstered by the supreme talent of Robert Holmes. Such a desperate final episode, I like the slight tragedy to Jek and his attempts to help save Peri, they eek out just a little bit of pity for him towards the end. You almost feel bad for him despite him being an utterly horrendous piece of shit. Was he like that before or was it really Morgus, another despicable rat, who made him that way? Here, everybody dying by the end helps add to the desperation and tragedy of the situation much more than in Resurrection of the Daleks where it all feels needlessly gratuitous. It has a sense of purpose here, even if it does still feel incredibly bleak. Again, this isn’t what Doctor Who should do all the time, but it’s a fitting end for the Fifth Doctor after Earthshock, Warriors of the Deep, Resurrection of the Daleks and Planet of Fire. Robert Holmes does re-use the masked, disfigured villain trope from Talons of Weng-Chiang, though.

[Warbodog]

the masked, disfigured villain trope from Talons of Weng-Chiang

[Ben Saunders]

Yes, yes. But Robert Holmes didn’t write Phantom of the Opera seven years before Caves of Androzani. Both are aping Phantom.

[Technopeasant]

watched 2 episodes of (audio with pictures) Marco Polo today. It was ok.

[Renegade Rob]

I have a real soft spot for Marco Polo (and all the Hartnell historicals really). Maybe it’s the swashbuckling tone or just a setting you don’t see often enough in Doctor Who, but I really dug it. 

[Ben Saunders]

watching The Twin Dilemma.

[Rushy]

You’ll be wishing for these delightful episodes by the time you reach Time and the Rani

[tombow]

Does anyone remember what who stuff was aired on the bbc at the time of the 96 movie? I remember a documentary and the first “Unearthly Child” episode. And one of the Peter Cushing films at around the same time.

[Warbodog]

Does anyone remember what who stuff was aired on the bbc at the time of the 96 movie? I remember a documentary and the first “Unearthly Child” episode. And one of the Peter Cushing films at around the same time.

BBC Genome retroactively calls the show ‘Doctor Who (1963-1996)’ which confuses its own date filter. I can’t see anything else from around then, but episodes might have been repeated again later and knocked out of the timeline, you’d have to search the daily listings.

I remember that the second Cushing film was on TV a lot in the 90s generally (I’d always watch it with my brothers if we had nothing better to do and debate the best Dalek colours), though I never saw his first film back then.

[Unrumble]

I remember that the second Cushing film was on TV a lot in the 90s generally (I’d always watch it with my brothers if we had nothing better to do and debate the best Dalek colours), though I never saw his first film back then.

I remember this strongly, too. Had it taped. Maybe whoever was making the decisions at ITV/Channel 4 (I forget which) felt the second one had wider appeal?

[Warbodog]

It was the gold-with-black for me, I think. The red one was too garish, so the youngest brother got stuck with that one, like how he had to go with Knuckles.

[Dave]

[tombow]

When I was a kid I thought Gallifrey sounded like it must be somewhere in Wales or Cornwall? And it must be some inside joke that some rural place in Wales is actually a Time Lord realm. I still can’t believe its an original name. It sounds so rural and familiar.

Actually does anyone remember a big box set of the Dalek films on video with a bunch of merch inside? I kept seeing it everywhere in the 90s and wanting it, but never got it.

[Ben Saunders]

When I was a kid I thought Gallifrey sounded like it must be somewhere in Wales or Cornwall?

I was sure there’s some sort of joke to this effect in the early Davison era, but it might be in reference to Traken. Somebody says something along the lines of “Gallifrey/Traken, where’s that, Wales?” and the Doctor replies “something like that.” Struggling to find it though.

[Professor Flibble]

Are you lot not thinking of the “Gallifrey? Must be in Ireland” joke, first seen in Hand of Fear?

[Warbodog]

It’s amusing when old (and not even that old) sci-fi uses actual “exotic” foreign words for alien names that have become more commonplace since, like the character Kaftan in Tomb of the Cybermen and Star Trek TNG’s planet Korma and the Gamelan system.

[Ben Saunders]

Are you lot not thinking of the “Gallifrey? Must be in Ireland” joke, first seen in Hand of Fear?

Maybe, maybe. I have heard the “Gallifrey sounds like Welsh” thing before, though, definitely.

[Professor Flibble]

While I’ve seen practically all of Star Trek up to a random episode of Picard Season 2, my memory of the franchise on a “names of species and planets” level isn’t the best so uh, I forgot there was a planet called Korma. 

[Professor Flibble]

Maybe, maybe. I have heard the “Gallifrey sounds like Welsh” thing before, though, definitely.

I think it’s a reference to Galway.

[tombow]

Oh … I remember Jack Vance’s “servants of the Wankh” being renamed Wannek for the UK, and this insane fan saying it messed up his Vance  collection and writing long angry rants on his Amazon and Goodreads review of the book, saying a masterpiece had been trashed “for the sake of current British gutter slang”

[Warbodog]

While I’ve seen practically all of Star Trek up to a random episode of Picard Season 2, my memory of the franchise on a “names of species and planets” level isn’t the best so uh, I forgot there was a planet called Korma. 

I misremembered, it’s from DS9 season 4 (1996), making it even worse.

Or Cardassians just love mild curry.

[Warbodog]

Oh … I remember Jack Vance’s “servants of the Wankh” being renamed Wannek for the UK, and this insane fan saying it messed up his Vance  collection and writing long angry rants on his Amazon and Goodreads review of the book, saying a masterpiece had been trashed “for the sake of current British gutter slang”

My childhood edition of Bruce Coville’s The Search for Snout (Alien Adventures book 3) was renamed Aliens Stole My Dad because snout was slang for cigarettes that 11 year old me wasn’t even aware of.

[Technopeasant]

what who

where why?

Or Cardassians just love mild curry.

Don’t get me started on explaining the name Cardassians to non fans…

[Unrumble]

[Warbodog]

[Professor Flibble]

Been rewatching Black Books recently, Dylan Moran is one of my top choices to play the Doctor. It’s just a shame he’d likely never do it.
Additionally, Miriam Margoyles is another one of mine, she would be absolutely perfect in the role, but obviously it wouldn’t happen now. 

[Doomitron]

I thought Alan Davies was a pretty good choice for the Doctor, he’s underrated as an actor in my book.

[Professor Flibble]

I’ve always liked Alan Davies, and I wouldn’t mind him in the role but I’ve never been 100% convinced for some reason. 

The thing I am a bit tired of is all the popular Doctor choices with fans just being whoever’s in the latest prestige BBC crime drama or Netflix horror show or something, so I’d actually like to see a fairly well-known British comedian (at least one I know and like) take on the role and surprise everyone. I suppose the issue becomes how recognisable they are already. Like, I’d like to see Diane Morgan but everyone would call it “Philomena Cunk in Space.”

I mean, as if Peter Capaldi’s Doctor Who wasn’t “Malcolm Tucker in Space.”

[Dave]

My fantasy casting has always been Tilda Swinton, which would never happen, but she would be fantastic. 

[Warbodog]

The only time I really got into those imaginings was when there was discussion about Paterson Joseph (Johnson from Peep Show, etc) being the Eleventh Doctor. Whether that was actually credible or just a name people liked to throw around at the time that I actually recognised, I could see it, mainly based on his sinister-eccentric Neverwhere role.

[Technopeasant]

When was the last time it was essentially a complete unknown? Sylvester?

[Dave]

The only time I really got into those imaginings was when there was discussion about Paterson Joseph (Johnson from Peep Show, etc) being the Eleventh Doctor. Whether that was actually credible or just a name people liked to throw around at the time that I actually recognised, I could see it, mainly based on his sinister-eccentric Neverwhere role.

Yeah, I always liked that idea.

[Dave]

When was the last time it was essentially a complete unknown? Sylvester?

Does Matt Smith count? He wasn’t hugely well-known before he was cast.

[tombow]

Tom Baker said in a couple of interviews that he wanted Miriam Margoyles as a companion in the 70s. I used to think it was a dead cert that Richard Ayoade would probably get the role someday. 

[Warbodog]

I used to think it was a dead cert that Richard Ayoade would probably get the role someday. 

That would at least finally let Sylvester McCoy out of the worst-actor chair.

[Flap Jack]

I used to think it was a dead cert that Richard Ayoade would probably get the role someday.

Well I hope I’m not being too picky, but I was hoping that we could avoid having an open transphobe play The Doctor.

Also I’ve never seen him give a compelling acting performance that wasn’t comedy, but never mind that.

[Doomitron]

Aside from Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy (and maybe Matt Smith), the people cast as the Doctor have normally been known names haven’t they? In the case of McCoy I think it was mainly an instance of there not being many clamoring for the role so he had better odds, although considering the state of the show now its probably one of the better chances to cast an unknown again.

[Professor Flibble]

Tom Baker said in a couple of interviews that he wanted Miriam Margoyles as a companion in the 70s.

I can’t accept Margoyles as anything less than the Doctor. She just is the female Tom Baker. 

I used to think it was a dead cert that Richard Ayoade would probably get the role someday. 

I think as a kid, I liked the idea, then I grew up and realised how bland the idea of Richard Ayoade as the Doctor is.

That would at least finally let Sylvester McCoy out of the worst-actor chair.

I will not accept this McCoy slander, he is one of the best actors to play the role. But I can’t even say there is a worst actor because I like them all. At that point, I’d say a fan Doctor and that doesn’t feel very fair.

[Professor Flibble]

I used to think it was a dead cert that Richard Ayoade would probably get the role someday.
Well I hope I’m not being too picky, but I was hoping that we could avoid having an open transphobe play The Doctor.

Him too? Bloody hell.

Also I’ve never seen him give a compelling acting performance that wasn’t comedy, but never mind that.

I think those people genuinely just want him to play the Doctor exactly like Maurice Moss. I mean, I basically want Dylan Moran to play the Doctor like Bernard Black (but a bit nicer) but that’s totally different because he’s actually Doctory.

[Doomitron]

I think those people genuinely just want him to play the Doctor exactly like Maurice Moss.

If we were casting anybody from The IT Crowd, Matt Berry as The Meddling Monk was a slam dunk, and it nearly happened too.

[Author]

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