The Gallifrey Gals’ own thread

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Made it.

Topic

[Dave]

Yeah, I think the divergence is when Kochanski discovers Frankenstein.

Although arguably, given that this version of Kochanski is Lister’s ex, even then it means we’re not in the same universe as The End, given that they were never a couple back then.

[Ben Saunders]

The real Rimmer only appears in The End, Balance of Power, Stasis Leak,Timeslides, Dimension Jump, Series VIII, and The Beginning.

Why didn’t the nanobots recreate Kochanski?

[Flap Jack]

Why didn’t the nanobots recreate Kochanski?

For years I thought this was a major issue, but I realised there are 2 pretty plausible explanations:

1 – Lister gave Kochanski in particular a funeral (similar to the deleted scene) and flushed her remains into space, so she – and George McIntyre – didn’t have remains on the ship to be recreated from.

2 – The nanobots are intelligent, so they just saw that they already had a Kochanski, and thus decided that recreating Kochanski would be pointless.

Ultimately the lack of a second Kochanski isn’t a plot hole, but the fact no characters even mention the possibility is symptomatic of the larger issue of the writers acting like Kochanski being stranded away from her home universe is irrelevant in Series VIII.

[Flap Jack]

Actually, as I mentioned George McIntyre, isn’t it convenient that we never find out if they re-enabled him in Series VIII?

Holly making the decision on his own to switch him off in favour of Rimmer in the 3 million year gap is one thing, but if he was left behind after the evacuations in Only the Good… and they decided to effectively kill him for a third time so that holo-Rimmer could return (presumably after a good while with him as the 5th or 6th Dwarfer) that would be pretty dark.

[Warbodog]

2 – The nanobots are intelligent, so they just saw that they already had a Kochanski, and thus decided that recreating Kochanski would be pointless.

Figured it was just that. Though I also assumed for years that the nanos resurrected the crew as a gift to make amends for stealing the ship, totally forgetting about the Holly double nanos reveal until we rewatched, which overcomplicates things pointlessly.

[Ben Saunders]

Not having the remains makes sense, I guess.

Holly making the decision on his own to switch him off in favour of Rimmer in the 3 million year gap is one thing

When do you think he turned George off? Immediately following the accident? A hundred years? A million years? Did he let him die of old age? Wouldn’t he bring the captain back instead (then turn him off at some point). Much to think about.

[Podey]

Although arguably, given that this version of Kochanski is Lister’s ex, even then it means we’re not in the same universe as The End, given that they were never a couple back then.

In that case, we’re not in the same universe from DNA onwards…

This is really going to complicate the “when did we last see the real version of X character” discussion.

[Rudolph]

Just to clarify, I meant it’s the last time we see Kochanski in VIII and as a regular character.

[Dave]

In that case, we’re not in the same universe from DNA onwards

Every series of Red Dwarf is set in a different universe etc.

[International Debris]

We’re conflating universes and dimensions again.

[Ben Saunders]

Sci-fi uses “dimension” when it means “universe” all the time (Dimension Jump should be Universe Jump)

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Just a thought – maybe we’re getting a little off the intended topic of the Gallifrey Gals and this whole discussion about when we last see who in what form and when counts as what should possibly be spun off into its own thread?

Y’know, just thinking out loud.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[International Debris]

Sci-fi uses “dimension” when it means “universe” all the time (Dimension Jump should be Universe Jump)

The novels would disagree.

[tombow]

I always assumed the radiation blast destroyed George’s light bee. Anyway, I think the Gals have had comments for months “warning them” about KTV, saying it’s super sexist, it will make them stop watching the show, it’s the most offensive thing they’ll ever react to, etc. So I think it was probably milder than they were expecting. You can tell a lot of their ” weird heckling old man” commenters had a “you woke girls just lost your MINDS!” comment ready and just posted it anyway, without caring that their reaction was pretty laid back.

[Formica]

The final appearance of the real Rimmer as a main character (outside of flashbacks) is in The End.

[Warbodog]

[Technopeasant]

This went about as expected, though they’re enjoying the jokes more than I’d have guessed.
Yeah I thought it was very even-handed, probably a little bit fairer to the episode than it deserves. On a first watch, the gags at the start probably do seem a little funnier and more innocent when you don’t know what’s to come later, it’s all the shower stuff that really taints the whole episode with unpleasantness. 

None of it the shower stuff, but a lot of the first five minutes of Krytie TV is genuinely my favorite bits of VIII. Especially…

But given Krytie TV has been either my worst or second worst episode in the least three G&T polls…

[Moonlight]

“The post has arrived” deserves to be in a better episode.

[Captain Bollocks]

I ALWAYS crack up at “post’s arrived”, before sadly remembering which episode it is, and resigning myself to ignoring the next 20 minutes before another guilty pleasure comes along when Rimmer just blankly accepts Lister’s pubes. 

One thing I only noticed for the first time is how the whole story is built around Lister’s appeal, but in the opening scene, Lister has only just discovered he isn’t allowed strings a few seconds before the letter about the appeal even arrives.

I did go back and watch it again and it’s worded in a way that doesn’t explicitly refer to the appeal coming from Lister himself, so I guess we just have to assume another prisoner was in the same situation, otherwise the wardens pre-emptively decided to appeal their own rules and create extra work for themselves? 

[Warbodog]

I think the waterproof pogo stick’s funny, with Kryten contriving the verruca explanation and Kochanski’s bemused “another one?” leaving a procession of other accessories to the imagination. Until it proceeds to become the most over-explained joke in the whole series and kills it.

[Flap Jack]

“Died? Do you think he’d write and tell you?” would work a lot better in a show where people coming back as holograms after dying wasn’t a major part of the premise.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

“Died? Do you think he’d write and tell you?” would work a lot better in a show where people coming back as holograms after dying wasn’t a major part of the premise.

But they don’t have hard light so they couldn’t write it themselves.

[Flap Jack]

Even if it was a skutter or a crewmate who actually put ink to paper, I think it’s fair to say the person dictating would still be the one the letter was “from”.

[Dave]

[Flap Jack]

Heck, even without hologram technology you can receive a letter from someone telling you they’ve died. It doesn’t tend to be funny though.

[International Debris]

My biggest problem with the gag is the same as all the VIII bunk room jokes: Lister is written as a Dougal-level idiot for some reason. Only a series ago he was comfortably explaining time paradoxes so complex they blew up cameras, and now he’s struggling to do a dot-to-dot.

[Dave]

Maybe when the nanobots rebuilt his body they reset his brain.

[Warbodog]

Maybe when the nanobots rebuilt his body they reset his brain.

The real Lister hasn’t appeared since Timeslides anyway.

[Moonlight]

That’s all well and good, but is Dave Rimmer the same Rimmer as in Bodysnatcher?

[Dave]

The real Lister hasn’t appeared since Timeslides anyway.

Ah but you’re forgetting the Cloister illustration in The Promised Land.

[Flap Jack]

No, the real Lister died off screen after the end of Polymorph. He was killed and replaced by the second polymorph.

[Moonlight]

Everyone is a polymorph after Can of Worms.

[Dave]

That’s only if you ignore the fact that we never saw them leave Better Than Life, so as far as the show is concerned they’re still in the game. So we haven’t actually seen any of the real main characters since early Series 2.

[Flap Jack]

And the Rimmer who entered Better Than Life wasn’t even the original Rimmer hologram. The original Rimmer was erased by Lister in Me².

[Podey]

No GG video this week, just in case anyone missed their update.

[Ian Symes]

It’s because of all this stuff about the real versions of characters, isn’t it?

[Unrumble]

[Unrumble]

It’s because of all this stuff about the real versions of characters, isn’t it?

[Technopeasant]

My biggest problem with the gag is the same as all the VIII bunk room jokes: Lister is written as a Dougal-level idiot for some reason. Only a series ago he was comfortably explaining time paradoxes so complex they blew up cameras, and now he’s struggling to do a dot-to-dot.

I generally agree, but in this instance it seems more like a classic absent minded forgetting the obvious for a second. I think we have all had moments like that.

Now perhaps one could quibble about why Lister is seemingly nonchalant at the thought of Petersen being dead, but in fairness he was literally dead only a couple months ago…

So we all agree it’s a pity we never got a proper No Strings Attached then?

[Technopeasant]

“Died? Do you think he’d write and tell you?” would work a lot better in a show where people coming back as holograms after dying wasn’t a major part of the premise.

Not entirely sure how useful a hologram of a catering officer would be though. I imagine if you are a manual labourer you are pretty well screwed.

I am sure this has been brought up, but did the nanobots resurrect George McIntyre?

[Technopeasant]

Just a thought – maybe we’re getting a little off the intended topic of the Gallifrey Gals and this whole discussion about when we last see who in what form and when counts as what should possibly be spun off into its own thread?
Y’know, just thinking out loud.

The who’s who when’s own thread?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

<Blockquote> Not entirely sure how useful a hologram of a catering officer would be though. I imagine if you are a manual labourer you are pretty well screwed. </blockquote> 

This got me thinking 

Did Lister in part choose to try and become a chef in Balance of Power because Kochanski’s ex was a chef?

presumably Tim and Petersen know each other fairly well. 

Also, a hologram chef might be useful. If they’re like head chef and can create dish and run a kitchen have have everyone else do the actual work. 

[Dave]

Also a hologram chef could stick his head into the middle of a steak to see if it’s done yet.

[Ben Saunders]

“Died? Do you think he’d write and tell you?” would work a lot better in a show where people coming back as holograms after dying wasn’t a major part of the premise.

Were holograms a common thing on Earth or did you only ever see them in places such as groovy, funky Channel 27?

Also a hologram chef could stick his head into the middle of a steak to see if it’s done yet.

 – “What’s it look like?”

 – “Dark.”

[Flap Jack]

This does draw attention to the whole “how exactly do holograms receive visual input from where their eyes are being projected?” question.

[Nick R]

This does draw attention to the whole “how exactly do holograms receive visual input from where their eyes are being projected?” question.

The light bee has two little periscopes.

[Formica]

Dad? Do you think he’d write and tell you?

[Warbodog]

Dad

The calibre of Series II gags puts Krytie TV’s reasonably funny lines in perspective.

[Podey]

I think the Dougal-ification of Lister in VIII isn’t that far from how he was portrayed in series 1 and 2, which is kind of fitting with the “retro” vibe of VIII and the return of “old” Rimmer, but obviously requires you to forget the 7 series of character development that preceded it. 

[Author]

Replies