Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Things we WOULD like to see in the New Dwarf Specials.

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  • #2560
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Right.

    Now I don’t want to get involved in any forum bitchfests that may or may not be occuring elsewhere on this site, so let’s put all that to one side.

    What sort of things WOULD you like to see included in the new specials? ie. plotlines, writing styles, characters, special fx etc.

    What would be in your ideal episodes?

    It’s a purely hypothetical question, I’m not suggesting that this is any sort of definitive clarion call from the fan community to Doug Naylor – it’s just a bit of fun.

    Ok so….

    GO.

    #84843
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    OK me first.

    I’m going to say.

    More of the Series VIII style Kryten costume – they finally got it right. His head looked normal-ish, and the dull grey suit looked good on camera and didn’t reflect the studio lights too much.

    Some refreshing new redesigned sets. It’s been 10 years, what the hell, I think it’s about time Red Dwarf got a new look, a la the Series III continuity busting makeover.

    #84844
    John Hoare
    Participant

    A studio audience!

    Well, not *see* them, obviously.

    #84845
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Yep, a fresh new look to things. Agee that’d be very nice…though I think I preferred Kryten’s head in Series 6. Something about it in 8 just looked…soft. Like a melted crayon.

    I’d like to see the characters more in tune with their selves in earlier series – i.e. Kryten being intelligent, acerbic, still lacking some confidence but growing as he breaks his programming….rather than a cleaning-obsessed idiot.

    Again, Cat as a simple-minded and self-obsessed creature who could nevertheless hold his own against Rimmer and give as good as he got…and not a style-obsessed idiot.

    Lister as a slobby guy with a good soul and dreams of being something greater…rather than a curry-obsessed idiot.

    #84846
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    A story-line based on a clever, funny, intriguing idea that couldn’t be done any other show (like Future Echoes, Thanks for the Memory, Bodyswap, Justice, Back to Reality, Legion, Epideme).

    Model-shots.

    New costumes for the Cat! (rather than just reprisals of the old ones)

    #84847
    Phil
    Participant

    Our friends the genitals.

    #84848
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    There’s always room for knackers.

    #84849
    Almighty_crj
    Participant

    On the topic of things we?d like to see, I?d rather see more budget spent on model effects. CGI is really getting over used, nowadays, particularly by Doctor Who.

    Sets could use a bit of money to explore the universe. Mainly, a lack of wood on principle sets.

    Filming in High Definition. I know Dave isn’t in HD, but for the purposes of HD DVD and overseas sales, I’d say it would be worth the money on BBC Worldwide’s part.

    >, I think it?s about time Red Dwarf got a new look, a la the Series III continuity busting makeover.
    A third type of RD interior wouldn’t look odd as the ship is modular – you’ve just entered a different module!

    #84850
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > A third type of RD interior wouldn?t look odd as the ship is modular – you?ve just entered a different module!

    It’s be cool to see it as more of a Nostromo – oily, dank, dirty and grimy – like a mining ship should be.

    #84851
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >It?s be cool to see it as more of a Nostromo – oily, dank, dirty and grimy – like a mining ship should be.

    They’ve kinda done this. Series III-V.

    #84852
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    This is fun.

    An ‘outdoor’ shot – a spacewalk or exploring a moon or asteroid without an atmosphere.

    They’ve only done it a handful of times in the whole of Red Dwarf (Confidence and Paranoia, Thanks for the Memory…um..) and it’s such a cool idea and could be really well achieved at a reasonable budget with today’s FX advances.

    Also, model shots mixed with CGI – the best of both worlds.

    #84853
    Almighty_crj
    Participant

    If the uniform from series 8 has to return, some of those ‘alien’esque grey jackets to match it. Somehow I think the costumes are a bit monotone at times. Oh and with both patches on either arm sleeves.

    >um..

    Blue – the golf flashback.

    Come on, another quarry!

    #84854
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > (Confidence and Paranoia, Thanks for the Memory?um..)

    The flashback in Blue when they were playing golf. That was pretty cool.

    > They?ve kinda done this. Series III-V.

    Sort of… though I was thinking more along the lines of dilapidated steampunk-style. Closest I can think is the ship in Serenity / Firefly.

    #84855
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    >Blue – the golf flashback

    *winces*

    Oh yeah, forgot about that.

    Well a spacewalk then.

    And agree the uniforms should be interesting to look at, maybe colour coded flightsuits or something, would look a bit snazzy.

    https://sisleyclothing.com.au/catalog2/images/flightS_1piece&Fabric.jpg

    #84856
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    And yeah – agree with Jim on the sets. It would be cool to have a kind of dirtied down, gritty look ie. Aliens, Outland or something similar.

    #84857
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Well, the sets will get their own amended style anyways – Mel Bibby passed away some years ago, god rest his soul.

    Personally I’d like a return to single camera shooting – what can I say, I liked the glossy production values of it.

    I would also like to see a return to a show more focussed on the core cast alone. I’ve no interest in seeing the whole Dwarf crew outside of flashbacks.

    I’d prefer to see modelwork as opposed to CGI, but I don’t mind the look of the ReMastered Dwarf design.

    Finally I’d like to see a mix of good character gags and some sharp comedy one liners and observations – a toning down of the physical and slapstick humour really.

    I guess in essence (in my mind) I’m looking for Red Dwarf III with Red Dwarf VII production values.

    I would also like the moon on a stick.

    #84858
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Definitely agree that single camera filmised production values would help. I think VII had by far the best picture quality and lighting of all the series, whatever your reservations about the writing etc.

    #84859
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Yeah…I reckon that something that looked like VII which was as funny as V would be superb.

    I quite like the grading they use for Doctor Who. Looks quite filmic…but not overly so.

    #84860
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I think the thing is for me is that part of what I love about Dwarf is the fusion of audience sitcom and SF. Which is why I’m not especially keen to see it go back to shooting like a drama.

    #84861
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    I’d love to see a boom mike in shot. :)

    #84862
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    As long as Craig is visibly mouthing other people’s lines I’ll be happy.

    #84863
    Antipodean
    Participant

    Plotwise, a quick resolution of the “Only the Good” cliffhanger (even if only in the form of a scrolly-thing) followed by an unrelated story set a decade later.

    #84864
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I think the thing is for me is that part of what I love about Dwarf is the fusion of audience sitcom and SF.

    I don’t really like the laugh-track in VII (sorry, I know this is “What We Would Like to See”, but part of that boils down to what they may have strayed away from in the past) and that would be my main bug-bear about single-camera.

    But that’s it, really. I think VII looks very nice and, were Red Dwarf any other type of show, it would be fine. Unfortunately, Red Dwarf needs a studio audience.

    #84865
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > I don?t really like the laugh-track in VII

    I know what you mean…it did seem out of place / divorced from the single-camera stuff. Couldn’t get past the idea that it was a bunch of folks watching a screening of the finihsed programme, going into hysterics over stuff that didn’t really warrant hysterics.

    It worked better without a laugh-track. I would like to see a laugh-track in the new shows, but only if the humour suits it.

    #84866
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I know what you mean?it did seem out of place / divorced from the single-camera stuff. Couldn?t get past the idea that it was a bunch of folks watching a screening of the finihsed programme, going into hysterics over stuff that didn?t really warrant hysterics.

    Argh! Back to the other thread with us!

    #84867
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Ooh another thing.

    A sense of scale when it comes to model/CGI shots.

    Red Dwarf needs to look like it’s five miles long. This was really well conveyed in the early series with ‘beauty passes’, but went missing round about the time of remastering – understandably because you had to zoom the camera quite far back just to fit the whole ship in the shot.

    And maybe some new shuttlecraft – White Giants or something, I think they got a mention in the Better Than Life novel.

    But I can’t be bothered to check so feel free to correct me.

    #84870
    Dave
    Participant

    The return of the Holly Hop Drive

    #84881
    performingmonkey
    Participant

    My name in the credits.

    #84884
    p2p_productions
    Participant

    > The return of the Holly Hop Drive

    :-))

    Personally, I’d prefer a return to Series VII’s shooting style.

    Also…

    Humour.
    Insightful pathos.
    Some high-octane action sequences.
    Ace (with original wig).
    Starbug 2.
    Hattie (and Norman).
    Claire Grogan (and Chloe).

    Basically, everything Dwarf does/did best. Oh, and one hell of a cliffhanger at the end, naturally.

    …Failing that, Rob Grant’s name in the credits wouldn’t be too bad, I suppose.

    #84886
    ChrisM
    Participant

    For me, all the original crew including Kochanski. (I liked some of the new characters in series 8 but I’m not too fussed about them returning for this.)

    The series 7 style shooting certainly (that really did look lovely.)

    Funny, but with a decent sci-fi story too. People sometimes complain about it becoming more sci-fi and less funny as time went on, but I don’t see these two things as mutually exclusive. And I certainly found the mixture between series 3-7 inclusive worked well.

    Also, modern affects. I’m not against CGI if it’s done well. Model shots would be great but often nowadays it’s cheaper to go the CG route, but a mixture would be wonderful if possible. I’d actually like to see what strange creatures they would come up with now considering the advances since the last Dwarf was shown, i.e. gelfs etc. (They don’t have to be entirely CGI mind, again a mixture would be great.)

    That might be something to save for a full series rather than the specials though but you never know. (I’ve often thought the missing Cat episode (Identity Within?) gelf village Mos Eisley style scene would have looked great.)

    #84887
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Oh, and some resolution to the cliff-hanger too. It doesn’t necessarily need be shown on screen, but if they did the age difference wouldn’t bother me. That’s what imaginations are for. ;) Besides, we don’t know how long it might have taken them to establish another portal back from the mirror universe do we?

    #84893
    mick
    Participant

    >The series 7 style shooting certainly (that really did look lovely.)

    So you want it to look like an episode of friends?

    I would like these new episodes to follow on from the end of series VI *insert alternate timeline bollocks* and totally disregard the bowel churning car crash that was series VII, a series which has a level of enjoyment that I would liken to having Ian rip off my cock with a fish hook and smoke it.

    #84895
    Phil
    Participant

    >a level of enjoyment that I would liken to having Ian rip off my cock with a fish hook and smoke it.

    So THAT’s Junior Angler…

    #84897
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I would like these new episodes to follow on from the end of series VI *insert alternate timeline bollocks* and totally disregard the bowel churning car crash that was series VII…

    Shhh, Mick. We’re not allowed.

    #84898
    John Hoare
    Participant

    So you want it to look like an episode of friends?

    I think Friends looks better than VII. Or, at least, it suits the show more, so it feels better. The main Central Perk set is great.

    Anyway: I dunno. I get how people would like the look of VII, and there *is* stuff there that’s great (a lot of Tikka is very nicely shot), but… I don’t warm to it. At all. It’s all a bit cold and clinical, unlike the previous six series (and yes, I include 1 and 2 in that). I just don’t think it suits the comedy. It doesn’t make me love the programme.

    But even forgetting that, I think most of 1-VI – and especially III and V – looks fabulous, and actually a lot more interesting than the majority of VII. It’s a beautiful blend of audience sitcom and SF, which is hugely unusual, gives the programme a unique feel, and is part of what makes Dwarf special to me.

    #84899
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > the bowel churning car crash that was series VII, a series which has a level of enjoyment that I would liken to having Ian rip off my cock with a fish hook and smoke it.

    He certainly has a handle on it there, bud.

    #84900
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I think most of 1-VI – and especially III and V – looks fabulous,

    I’ve always thought III looks a bit crummy. Dodgier picture quality than 1&2.

    #84902
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Always thought 3 looked really blurry / muddy.

    #84904
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Lister as a slobby guy with a good soul and dreams of being something greater?rather than a curry-obsessed idiot.

    Oh yes.

    #84907
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >So you want it to look like an episode of friends?

    It didn’t look like Friends to me. I was referring the 3 degree sets really, the feel of being in an actual craft. The filmic style didn’t look bad either, but it’s not a bigee…

    If they had a similar style to the other series I certainly wouldn’t complain though. As long as the story is good, and we get a few laughs that’s the main thing.

    #84908
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Series 3 *is* a bit… weird with the picture quality, I must admit. I’ve always wondered what it is – it was shot in the same studio as the first two series, and as you say Pete, they don’t have the same problem. But… I love it anyway. It adds a very odd feeling to the picture, no doubt, but I like it.

    Series V is probably the best the series managed to achieve in terms of visual look though, in my opinion. (I just wish the original Dwarf model existed at that point – the replacement smaller model doesn’t look as good.)

    #84909
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >3 degree sets

    That should read 360 degree sets. I won’t edit it, save moving posts out of order.

    #84910
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Got to agree with the Series V visuals – I’d single Back To Reality and The Inquisitor out as episodes that visually are very striking indeed.

    #84915
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    Series 3 *is* a bit? weird with the picture quality, I must admit. I?ve always wondered what it is – it was shot in the same studio as the first two series, and as you say Pete, they don?t have the same problem.

    Perhaps with the new sets, they were lit more creatively, which made them darker which made them look worse as the cameras couldn’t cope.

    Am I not right in saying that the cameras in use in Manchester were really really old at this time?

    #84916
    James
    Participant

    Who with comedy, fast paced, dialog a plenty and stuffed with jokes. I didn’t mind how VII was shot, but for a tv show with cost being a decisive issue it’s going to be CGI isn’t it? I don’t think I would like it to resemble any of the previous 52. It’s been 10ish years, now is the time to bring it up to date with shows like Who, I know using Who again, but it’s the set standard. It doesn’t have to be sets does it? Location would work just as well. There back on Earth in London of course. 28 Days Later did it without a soul in sight, if they want to follow the human race is dead story.

    #84919
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >28 Days Later did it without a soul in sight, if they want to follow the human race is dead story.

    It’d probably need to be in the country though, at least somewhere without lodging ins site. Bearing in mind its not just a case of the human race being dead, but likely being extinct for millions of years. (Mind you the carious space ships were in quite good nick for that old… but I guess you can put that down to vacuum on the outside and automated upkeep on the inside.)

    I’d like the return to earth certainly, but with all the rest they’ll be covering (and bearing in mind they’ve only got an hour to do it) I think it might be best at the end of the second episode. That way you’d get some kind of finale, “They got to Earth!” but there would be the prospect (if the specials do well) of more (i.e. what will they find there?”) It’d be good if they at least showed something of what was on Earth of course, to avoid the big cliff-hanger, just in case a new series isn’t green-lit.

    #84921
    Almighty_crj
    Participant

    >for a tv show with cost being a decisive issue it?s going to be CGI isn?t it?
    Not necessarily, Doctor Who itself had a model budget until they used the money to film the christmas specials.Besides we know from the DVD commentaries Doug is critical of CGI. He may make the room for the budget.

    Though yeah, likely
    >I don?t think I would like it to resemble any of the previous 52
    I don’t think Red Dwarf would lend itself to reinvention like Doctor Who has. Besides, the only time Red Dwarf tried to reinvent itself (Remastered) and it got criticised by everyone.

    >now is the time to bring it up to date with shows like Who
    Not that I’m putting people off ‘Mini coopering’ the show, mind you. I’d be all for that.

    #84923
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    I must admit, I’m curious what sort of budget the new shows will have compared to the old.

    #84949
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    >I don?t think Red Dwarf would lend itself to reinvention like Doctor Who has. >Besides, the only time Red Dwarf tried to reinvent itself (Remastered) and it got >criticised by everyone.

    So you dont see the changes between the first two series and III or the further differences in VI or more startling changes in VII and VIII as reinvention then?

    #84970
    performingmonkey
    Participant

    The change between V and VI is just as jarring as VI to VII, and VII to VIII. Not even Doctor Who went through a period of such volatility.

    #84975
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Good point there… it’s the negative changes that stick in one’s mind.

    Actually a guy on another forum (I’ve been spreading the news, hee hee.) said he didn’t like the way the show changed with series 3. A lot of people don’t. Maybe some people find the marriage of sitcom and sci-fi uneasy…

    Or maybe they just like the claustrophobia of the first two series, the three guys bouncing off each other. (Not in that way. They hadn’t been together in space that long. ;) ).

    As for me, I liked series 2, but 3 was when I felt it really took off.

    #85044
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    An episode where Iain Lee eats a variety of animal faeces.

    #85045
    Dave
    Participant

    An episode where Iain Lee eats a variety of animal faeces with a difference.

    #85056
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Monkey tennis?

    #85061
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    An episode where Iain Lee eats a variety of animal faeces.

    I would also like to see Iain Lee eat shit as opposed to talking it.

    #85069
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >An episode where Iain Lee eats a variety of animal faeces with a difference.

    Can the difference be that the faeces is covered in hydrochloric acid?

    #85132
    hummingbird
    Participant

    >I would like these new episodes to follow on from the end of series VI *insert alternate timeline bollocks* and totally disregard the bowel churning car crash that was series VII,

    My feelings exactly. And there’s always that line in Tikka about their reality being unstable, which would completely lend itself to a brand new timeline scenario.
    Advantages:
    1. original Rimmer
    2. Starbug
    3. no Kochanski

    >I don?t think Red Dwarf would lend itself to reinvention like Doctor Who has.

    I disagree. I think it would work very well. The only obstacle is an ageing cast (or the 3/4 of the cast that aren’t wearing a rubber head), which Who can conveniently sidestep. Not that I have a problem with the guys looking older, but I imagine a lot of people would. Particularly a new audience in our endearingly youth-obsessed society.
    /rant
    .

    #85133
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I must admit, I don’t really get the “pretend VII and VIII never happened” thing. They *did* happen – there are 16 episodes right there – and just wiping them out of continuity (in as much as that word means anything at all in Dwarf) won’t stop them existing. And besides, it would intensely annoy the people who *do* like those two series, and I see little point in doing that.

    Regarding the three things above – I’m not entirely sure it matters whether Rimmer is original Rimmer or not. Rimmer in VIII *is* different to old Rimmer, but that’s due to what I see as dodgy writing – he’d have been written pretty much the same if he was the old Rimmer. (There’s the odd line that references the changes between old Rimmer and new Rimmer – but not anything that fundamentally changes the character.) Restoring Starbug and getting rid of Kochanski *are* bonuses, but there are other ways of doing that without wiping out VII and VIII.

    Having said all of that – I can’t imagine the specials resolving the VIII cliffhanger in any case. These eps are supposed to be bringing a whole new audience to Dwarf – resolving a cliffhanger from 10 years ago isn’t going to figure into that. I want it explained at some point… but I’m not sure now is the right time to do it.

    #85138
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    I think John is right, It would be good for these specials to play to anyone as opposed to just an audience that has looked in detail at the previous archs of story or cliffhangers. Backwards, Tikka to Ride, and Back in the red all dug themselves out of continuity holes, some more quickly or sucessfully than others, based on the comments people say about each. I’m not too bothered about this cliff hanger being resolved. There is the least to resolve this time around possibly with just who is alive, on what ship to set up being the important thing, which the episode would do pretty much anyway by it exsisting. It’s like we already have a part resolution to that cliffhanger now we know there is new dwarf coming. We know the “smeg it is” was right and we think we know there is a rimmer, lister, Kryten and Cat possibly more alive some where and somewhen in some reality.

    With a 9 or 10 year time gap in real time, why not pull a time war :-)
    They could have the Stasis Skirmish.

    They could explain continuity on the website in an article or comic, for fans
    that had a deep desire for an official explanation of such things.

    #85139
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Is it worth wondering what the ship will look like? Dave do, after all, show the original non-remastered episodes.

    #85151
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I wondered about that too. The longer version is Doug Naylor’s preferred version I think, so I think it will be that. While I am somewhat undecided his reasoning on the Bodysnatcher Collection disk set did make a lot of sense, i.e. the vessels would be added to bit by bit over the years hence the long appearance. (I think I’d have preferred something a bit shorter mind, like one of the intermediate length sketches we see on the Bodysnatcher extras.)

    #85161
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Not sure if this is official…can anyone confirm that this is the new design?

    #85167
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I think (and hope) we’ll get the re-mastered model (refurnished a bit as it’s probably looking a bit aged by now) properly motion captured. That would look lovely.

    #85162
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    I don’t want anyone to panic, but my sources have just handed me this…

    Photobucket

    #85169
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Haaaahahahahaha

    #85170
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Hahaha. Brilliant.

    #85172
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Excellent.

    #85188
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Very good.

    Interesting Steam Punk take from Zombie too. I wondered why it had the police light… then I remembered the observation dome.

    #85190
    Phil
    Participant

    >then I remembered the observation dome.

    Can you help me remember why it’s shitting grey rope?

    #85191
    hummingbird
    Participant

    >then I remembered the observation dome

    they should totally bring back the observation dome

    #85193
    performingmonkey
    Participant

    Even though we know absolute zero about the new project’s budget, I’m guessing they won’t want to spend money on a model shoot. It’s CG all the way. I’d be in favour of models, of course. I recently watched Sunshine (on Blu-ray, like a motherfucker) for the first time and the extensive model work used is utterly seamless and excellent. It reminded me of 2001 and Alien and it’s proof that those days of quality COULD be brought back if the ADD generation could bear to entertain such a notion. It looks utterly amazing throughout (everything else about it is just OK)

    #85195
    Dave
    Participant

    >Can you help me remember why it?s shitting grey rope?

    It’s been fired from the ship by a man armed with a bow wearing a women’s dressing gown and with dental floss stuck among his teeth with wood glue.

    It’s the remake the fans have been clamouring for.

    #85197
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Duh. The grey rope is blasts from the laser cannons!

    Also, that’s not a police light or an observation dome. It’s both.

    #85200
    Phil
    Participant

    I feel like such a fool.

    #85307
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    You bastards. You could have put spoiler warnings or something.

    #85308
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    Umm… I meant to post here. Yeah, that’s it.

    #85314

    I would like to see a whole episode where none of the crew get beaten up. It was ridiculous the amount of poundings they got in Series VIII. That bit in Krytie TV where Rimmer is assaulted… it ruined the whole episode for me.
    I’d also like to see a foaming twat.

    #85425
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I quite liked the scene in series 8 (Pete I believe) where they’re out of synch due to being zapped with the time-wand, and their fighting suddenly catches up with them.

    I found the running gag of Rimmer and Lister appearing before Hollister for a reprimand rather tedious (although it was funny to start with) but that particular bit was executed very well I thought. Great slapstick.

    #85426
    ChrisM
    Participant

    *Looks at thread title* Not that I want to see that again in the new episodes.

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