Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Trojan timelines

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  • #202044
    Nick R
    Participant

    I realise that it’s a fool’s errand to try and reconcile too many aspects of Red Dwarf continuity, and I’m all for the idea that Funny should take priority over Canon. (And Trojan was funny.) But I’m going to start this discussion anyway. :-P

    I’ve only watched the episode once so far, so there might be a few details I’ve got wrong here. But this is how I interpreted the chronology upon watching it:

    – Red Dwarf crew killed.
    – Kryten gets built (see the “Now that’s in the future, isn’t it?” line in Back in the Red).
    – Mechanoids superseded by Simulants. Given Howard’s age, this is still within a few years of the Red Dwarf accident.
    – Sim Crawford becomes one of the first Simulants to rebel against humans, killing Howard and the rest of the crew on that ship.
    – She hangs around alone for three million years, for some reason, before spotting Red Dwarf (as a potential source of victims maybe?)
    – Howard is resurrected as a hologram, believing that he only died yesterday. (Why resurrect Howard of all the crew, if he’s so low-ranking? Maybe the Simulant somehow knew that she’d be dealing with a member of the Rimmer family, so she chose to bring back Howard because she thought his presence would make it easier to infiltrate the Red Dwarf crew? But I don’t think there’s any point in the story when that could have happened…)

    So that was what I originally thought.

    But something was pointed out on the DwarfCast (and in the Let’s Talk About Trojan comments): the Inanimate Quantum Rod brings together things separated in time as well as space. So instead of the Simulant needing to wait around for three million years doing nothing, that period of time could have been cut out: perhaps from the point of view of the Howard/Simulant timeline, it really was only yesterday that Howard died? That would explain why she didn’t need to salvage replacement parts like other Simulants.

    Anyone else interpret it differently? Anyone want to point out any details I got wrong? Anyone want to moan at me for trying to clarify plots when I should be laughing at the jokes? (On this site? Never!)

    #202045
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    Yeah, I presumed the Quantum Rod brought the Columbus III hurtling into the future.

    #202046
    Carlito
    Participant

    The rod brought the Columbus forward in time and Howard may have been the only dead crew member (prior to the murders) and therefore a hologram despite his low rank.

    #202047
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    That’s how I’m currently thinking – Howard died at some point after the Columbus III set off, him being the only dead crew member before Sim Crawford goes potty, hence being a hologram.

    However, who’s to say that the Columbus III is only capable of sustaining one hologram? We know Red Dwarf was, but we’ve never been told that this is true of all craft. Plus, we’ve obviously seen the Enlightenment and know that it’s not uncommon for multiple holograms to be in one place. What if the bulk of the Columbus’s crew were holograms? What if Crawford had weaponry that can kill holograms (hence the blaster she nicks from the Trojan killing Howard), and that the *only* reason Howard survived her original attack is because he was hiding and she couldn’t find him.

    #202050
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I think it was more where she shot him than the kind of weapon – I.e central torso where the light bee is located.

    That being said, hardlight holograms do seem a lot less tough than they’re originally depicted in series 6 where you get the impression the hardlight drive is nearly indestructible, so you could be right. Ace Rimmer mark ??? getting killed with a bullet to the light bee for example in Stoke me a Clipper.

    I’ll admit it didn’t really occur to me on viewing that the Howard and Crawford were brought through time as well as space, although that would certainly explain a few things.

    If I understand Kryten’s explanation of the Quantum Rod though, it didn’t actually drag their ship through space. It rather contracts the space in between thus having the effect of bringing their ships closer.

    So yeah, I guess that’s the same thing really. It’s just they haven’t actually budged from their location, it’s just a short-cut through space-time between the two locations has been created. Like a wormhole, basically.

    This makes me wonder if Red Dwarf could have used it to jump to their ships location. And if the contraction affects time as well as space, that could get them back to the 23rd century.* Then again the tunnel could be very narrow, just wide enough to communicate of teleport.

    *I’m not suggesting they’ll do this. I’m just speculating.

    #202051
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    With the hard light vulnerability thing, maybe it was only the version of the technology that Legion had perfected where indestructibility was a feature. We’ve previously seen the Stoke version of Ace die; maybe there’s a mass-market version of hard light out there in the populated portion of the universe, that’s subtly different from what Rimmer’s got.

    #202061
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Yes, that makes sense.. I know there’s that scene in BtE where Rimmer is shot in the light bee (that sounds painful) by the Creator, but, well, that was a fantasy within a fantasy so doesn’t really count I guess. But the fact it was portrayed as a possibility made me wonder if Doug was sweeping the indestructibility thing under the carpet.

    Or I’m overthinking it. This sort of thing doesn’t really bother me by the way, I just find it all part of the fun trying to tie this stuff together.

    #202088
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Yeah, always seemed to me that Hard-Light Technology had been developed but was it was Legion who worked out the kinks of it.

    #202096
    pfm
    Participant

    It’s not gonna look good if Rimmer gets shot, at any point in future episodes, and isn’t affected, with no explanation. Most people watching would be wondering why.

    #202104
    Bezzy
    Participant

    Its like the Simulant talking about an uprising. As she and the Columbus 3 are from the past this was probably way before many of the Simulants turned rogue.
    As for rimmers hologram aging.. well since he didnt age in ‘Rimmerworld’ where he was stuck for hundreds of years on the planet. I speculated that maybe Rimmer got rebooted at somepoint and as Lister proabably didnt want to be the only one growing old on the ship (with the exception of Cat) Holly – or the ships computer probably reconfigured his lightbee.

    #202105
    Bezzy
    Participant

    As for Kryten, i can only assume he is almost burnt out.. ;) lol

    #202107
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I think Rimmer ageing is probably to do with Chris Barrie being a human.

    #202108
    si
    Participant

    Ah, that old chestnut…

    #202110
    Reece
    Participant

    I think Rimmer ageing is probably to do with Chris Barrie being a human.

    Pfft, and he calls himself an actor.

    #202112
    srmcd1
    Participant

    Maybe it has to do with his environment? On Rimmerworld, he spent a good few centuries by himself in a dungeon with no one around. Maybe he only ages when in the company of other people. He definitely aged in Out of Time. And he definitely aged during Series I – VII.

    Or maybe it’s a case of MST3k Mantra at work… “It’s just a show. We should really just relax.”

    #202115
    Bezzy
    Participant

    Or lightbee stress? :)

    #202116
    Nick R
    Participant

    Maybe it has to do with his environment? On Rimmerworld, he spent a good few centuries by himself in a dungeon with no one around. Maybe he only ages when in the company of other people.

    I have a theory on that!

    #202127
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Or maybe Rimmer hasn’t aged. Okay he has aged to US because, well, Chris Barrie has aged, but maybe he looks the same to the other characters. Much like the two versions of Kochanski look the same to the characters.

    I kinda like the idea that he ages to them as well though. I liked how they made a joke out of that in Out of Time. There’s no reason the simulation program couldn’t accommodate aging. And maybe he actually did age in the time period he was in the cell on Rimmerworld, but was periodically rebooted in a younger form when he reached the end of what would have been his human life. They happened to come across him a few years after the reboot. (Or the ageing was something the RD sim suite did, and he was no longer created by that.)

    #202128
    si
    Participant

    MY BRAIN HURTS

    #202129
    ChrisM
    Participant

    :-)

    #202160
    Karnie
    Participant

    I never got the impression the Columbus was brought along, I assumed the transporter just transported the crew through space (and time) by way of the rod ‘connecting’ the Rimmers, leaving their ship behind. I also think Kryten ‘mispoke’ when he said they could be there in a matter of seconds, as he just finished saying the craft was not flight-worthy and useless to them.

    #202162

    Fifteen hours is a matter of seconds. Think about it. Yep.

    #202359
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I never got the impression the Columbus was brought along, I assumed the transporter just transported the crew through space (and time) by way of the rod ‘connecting’ the Rimmers

    The way I understand it though, the connecting is done by squidging up the fabric of space time between two locations. That’s why when functioning correctly, the ship can use it to traverse vast distances in space. So in a sense you’re right, the ship still remained where it is, but the fact that they were able to receive the signal and teleport them was due to taking advantage of the space-time shortcut the rod provided.

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