why is meltdown considerd a bad episode ?

[NitroChrisUK]

i read once that meltdown was considerd the worst red dwarf episode ever and i hear quite alot about people slating it .. the question is why ? it was one of the first episodes i saw and i absolutely loved it and i would put it in my top 5 episodes .. so was just wondering alot of people hate it … or do they ?

Topic

[JamesTC]

Its not.

[Carlito]

If I remember correctly (and I was probably about 9 or 10 at the time) the fun-filled Red Dwarf Smegazine held some kind of poll (readers, I’d assume) to list the episodes in order of popularity, and Meltdown came last.

This was either just after or just before Series VI, so episodes from VI may or may not have been included in the poll (but if I had to wager, I’d say it was just Series I-V).

I guess the reputation stuck.

It isn’t my favourite Dwarf episode by any means, but it isn’t my least favourite either.

[Carlito]

Then again, I’d probably consider it the weakest of series IV, and as it was the series closer and was following some ‘classics’ in Dimension Jump, Camille etc. it was probably a bit of a downer to end the series on, an anti-climax.

It was fresher in the memory at the time of the poll, having only been aired a year or two before so, much as whenever a poll is held for topics such as “greatest comedian ever” or “20 greatest songs of all time” contemporary stuff usually charts highly because of freshness in the memory, the disappointment of Meltdown (assumption!) still stung and it placed bottom.

Being “least favourite” doesn’t equate to “bad”. In a series of excellent episodes, the “worst” episode isn’t neccessarily a “bad” episode… it can still be brilliant, just the LEAST brilliant of all the brilliant episodes in this brilliant series, dwarfed (no pun…) in the brilliance of the other episodes. Yeah?

[Carlito]

It’s the same as I often say Series IV is one of my least favourite series of Red Dwarf, but I still fucking love it. Just not as much as some of the others.

[pfm]

> Its not.

But at one time it WAS considered to be bad by most ‘fans’. I admit it was one of my least favourites until the IV DVD came out. There were quite a few episodes I totally reconsidered upon the DVD releases. I’d never even seen Confidence & Paranoia before the series 1 DVD!!

If IV had it’s original order, with Dimension Jump and Meltdown being pushed as the ‘main’ two episodes, opinion would probably have been quite different.

I think what puts people off it is maybe all the guest characters of the wax droids, people getting blown up left right and centre in fairly non-Dwarf-like moments in the battle scene, the fact that it mostly takes place off-ship, Rimmer’s bastardism turning from a trait we can just laugh at to something maybe a bit more serious (though it leads to Lister’s great speech at the end which IMO makes the entire episode). There’s probably more to it than that but I can’t see what. There are several classic Dwarf scenes in Meltdown, such as the aforementioned Lister speech and swallowing the light bee. Also Winnie the Pooh, Caligula, Rimmer inspecting the troops (the outtakes being just as funny) etc.

Backwardsalso seems to be looked upon as one of the lesser episodes, and yet we all know what a classic it is in so many ways. Two episodes I really don’t like are Camille and DNA for various reasons. i wouldn’t call them crap though. How could you? They just contain scenes that piss me off. Like, it’s nothing to do with Bobby, but all the scenes with Kryten as a human don’t sit well with me. The blob montage in Camille is absolutely ridiculous as well. It’s so bad as the first episode of IV. Though again it’s got an all-time classic scene with Kryten not being able to lie (despite doing so in the scene that immediately preceded it at the end of The Last Day!!)

VII and VIII aside, I’m guessing the 5 least popular Dwarf episodes would be something like (in no order)-

Waiting For God
Camille
Parallel Universe
Rimmerworld
Meltdown

I find Meltdown WAY more entertaining than Psirens, Legion (yes, I’ll say it for the millionth time, I fucking HATE Legion, especially the farcical dinner scene and Legion’s Radio 4 announcer voice), Polymorph II: Emohawk and, of course, PLENTY of VII and VIII.

[NitroChrisUK]

im sitting here trying to think what my least favourate episode actually is .. even though iv seen waiting for god a million times i can never seem to remember it because nothing really happens and camile i was never very fond of .. so probably one of those 2 series 7 and 8 i dotn hate as much as some people seem to the idea of having the whole crew back i think was ok for 1 series but having stories spread over 2 and 3 episodes was crap 8 episodes only 5 stories ..

[Carlito]

I’m not a massive fan of Camille, but I’m surprised you’d think it would rank low… I always thought it was considered a ‘classic’ episode. Same goes for Parallel Universe and Better Than Life which don’t seem to get much love… I think Series II in its entirety is near perfect, including those episodes. I guess it’s all subjective, of course, but its surprising when what you figure is a ‘no-brainer’ actually turns out to be the opposite in other people’s eyes.

I definitely think Meltdown’s perceived unpopularity has to be taken into the context of its original airing. If it had been a mid-series episode, it would have been just fine. Nobody would have really held a grudge against it. As the series closer, with a war theme during turbulant times overseas, having been delayed (maybe increasing anticipation – you know how Dwarf fans like to build things up in our minds before actually seeing them), with a fairly sombre ending (save the light bee gag) maybe it just got a little too close to the bone for the times we were in, was a little anti-climactic as the last episode of what had been a triumphant enough series, was perhaps a bit darker in tone than expected… I don’t know, I didn’t see it on first airing, I’m just throwing things out there… perhaps those who saw it first time round will be able to provide better explanations, in the context of when it aired.

[NitroChrisUK]

also only the good.. i am not fond of just seemed like a total mish mash of about 20 different episode ideas put into 1 episode that had an ending that would take a lifetime to explane …

as for meltdown i wouldnt rank it low i like but i agree with neandercarl that it may be to d with when it was aired and the conflict at the time and it dosent have a feel as though its an end of series episode .. but i still
would not rank it so low

[Carlito]

I’m just glad Meltdown went out last rather than first, if it’s as unpopular as it is perceived to be it could have turned viewers off to the show, the series ratings may have declined, and IV may have been the last we saw of the Boys from the Dwarf.

When I first saw IV (which was a repeat run not long after V ended, not as part of the ‘From Here to Entirety’ run), Dimension Jump was the first episode.

[Ridley]

Maybe Meltdown just isn’t sci-fi enough.

[Carlito]

Could see that affecting the opinion of those Dwarfers who are predominantly sci-fi fans and for whom the comedy is a pleasing side dish. But for those who hold the sci-fi and comedy in equal stead, or who are perhaps more comedy fans for whom the sci-fi is palatable because it comes served with big laughs…. not so much.

[Ridley]

Yeah but in terms of sets and characters there’s a lot of contemporary pop culture in there.

I prefer Meltdown to Holoship anyway.

[Carlito]

But Holoship was a real defining character episode for Rimmer, whereas Meltdown was more of a regression… or perhaps even slightly out of character. We always knew Rimmer had military aspirations but not that he was capable of being so callous and unfeeling. We felt we’d come to halfway like the guy, he wasn’t SUCH a bad person… and then he is basically responsible for the ‘death’ of everyone on the Wax planet.

[hummingbird]

I wouldn’t put the ep down as a favourite, but don’t think it’s a sci-fi or a character issue, it’s about pacing.
Meltdown has some great scenes, but the waxdroid battle scenes are unremarkable and really slow it down, and they dominate the second half of the ep when the plot should really be picking up.
The first half and the resolution is great, it’s just that big chunk of meh inbetween.

[Anonymous]

It’s not the worst episode ever, but it gained that rep before VII and VIII were broadcast. It is probably the weakest episode in Series IV, but IV has a pretty strong line up. The only other episode of that series I’m not keen on is Camille, but trying to teach Kryten to lie saves it.

Personally I think Waiting for God and Legion are poorer whilst the likes of Backwards, Timeslides, Psirens, Camille and Rimmerworld are comparable when considering I – VI.

Both SMaC and Blue are better in my opinion. VIII is a mess and difficult to compare to anything that went before.

Regards

[Tarka Dal]

> im sitting here trying to think what my least favourate episode actually is

It’s Pete Part II. Surely?

> It?s not the worst episode ever, but it gained that rep before VII and VIII were broadcast.

I think worst is a bit harsh. Up until 1994 Series 1 had never been repeated on TV so unless you had the videos it was hard to judge it against those episodes. Ultimately it beats most of them. Not Future Echoes of course.

> VIII is a mess and difficult to compare to anything that went before.

I love you.

[locusceruleus]

I’ve never understood why ‘Waiting For God’ is almost universally disliked. As for ‘Meltdown’…well, its a good concept and setting. I just think that the execution is a bit heavy-handed.

>>It?s Pete Part II. Surely?

Every time someone mentions Pete, I feel the urge to punch a baby.

[cliff]

disregarding series V11 and V111 i would have to say my least favourite episodes are..

Parallel Universe
The Last Day
Justice
Holoship
Demons and Angels

…

[peas_and_corn]

Pete pt 2

[Tarka Dal]

I still don’t love you.

[si]

I know it’s one of my Dad’s favourites, but that’s probably an Elvis thing.

I really like it too.

[cliff]

Always kinda loved Marilyn…

[Andrew]

As has been said, the curse of Meltdown is that it’s arguably the lesser episode of series II to V, which is when the hype for the show got huge and polls were being done – with VI on the way but series I not yet out on VHS.

The reaction at the time was certainly pretty negative. One argument was that it felt a bit ‘Zany BBC’, with out-of-the-store costumed characters and generic field locations – not helped by the fact that, on first viewing, the explanation for all these historical figures running around didn’t come through until relatively late. (I disagree, I think that’s ‘proper storytelling’, but it put some viewers’ back up to be handed madness with no apparent context.)

Once the first series appeared on video, and then VI came out, Waiting For God seemed to jostle for its place at the bottom of the list, depending on which of the umpteen polls you saw. And then we polled again. And again. Because when the show had its – then long-seeming – three year hiatus, that’s all we had to talk about.

All of which cements the myth. One which, yes, has absolutely been busted since VII and VII polarised the people who generally voted for these kinds of things in the first place.

Me? I always thought Camille was less successful than Meltdown. And Nanarchy is the worst ep of the lot.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify my position on ‘Waiting for God’.

Like most of Series I there were multiple threads to the storyline – in this episode the ‘Alien Pod’ and the Cat religion. Chris Barrie is utterly brilliant in this episode and the writing for him is superb. Danny and Craig are below par and suffer from having the worst material in that series. The overall effect is a disjointed, and ultimately poor show IMO.

It still wipes the floor with a lot of Series VII and most of VIII.

Why ‘Meltdown’ didn’t work for me is a combination of the ‘shot in a backyard, low budget’ look, a below-par episode in a strong series, relatively weak plot, an over bombastic Rimmer, and an overly pious Lister.

Just my opinion of course.

Just to add a caveat; in my mind there is no such thing as ?bad? Red Dwarf. I like it all and every series makes me chuckle even after all these years (I?ve been with it from the pilot). My comparisons are relative.

[Ridley]

And Nanarchy is the worst ep of the lot.

I’d rather have a good example.

[Tarka Dal]

Hey I like that gag! It’s true to Cat’s character.

[pfm]

> The Last Day
> Justice
> Holoship

Wash your mouth out, Cliff!! Those are three of my all-time favourites. TLD is my favourite III ep, Justice and DJ are the best of IV (then it’s White Hole, then Meltdown), Holoship is utterly brilliant!

Even though I like series’ 2 and V better overall, III comes the closest to being the perfect Dwarf series. 2 and V have one fairly duff episode each (Parallel Universe and Demons & Angels) whereas III is consistently great. Am I right in thinking III is most people’s top series?

[cliff]

i do like them but i much prefere other episodes with more umph!…

i think it’s safe to say that whatever episodes you consider to be the ‘weaker’ your going to upset someone…….

…apart from pete pt2 of course…..

oh and that piss poor episode with kotchanski whinging like a posh bird about not having pineapple chunks or summat!, AWFUL!…not what R.D is about at all.

[Dave]

>?apart from pete of course?

That’s true, Pete doesn’t care which episode is bottom of the pile

[Anonymous]

Holoship would at least make my top ten Cliff. The Last Day is also a great episode from an exceptional series. Not sure where you’re coming from there.

I really like Angels and Demons but it appears to be regarded as something of a turkey here. Anyone care to shed some light for the noob?

[Danny Stephenson]

I myself like Angels and Demons, It’s nbot the strongest show in Series 5 but it’s not a terrible episode by a long shot IMHO. People are ranting on abotu resolution in the specials. But did we ever find out what happened to the low Lister who was SHOT DEAD AFTER the ships had merged.

[Ian Symes]

I myself like Angels and Demons

Dan Brown is shit.

But did we ever find out what happened to the low Lister who was SHOT DEAD AFTER the ships had merged.

Somebody ate him.

[Danny Stephenson]

Brown is shit

It’s chocolate! it’s chocolate. How abouth thath cup oth teah?

[Anonymous]

“Dan Brown is shit.” – Ian Symes

QFT

Danny, agreed. I think V is the best series but A&D is possibly the weakest link. Or maybe Inquisitor. Never really thought about the ‘low’ Lister’s death before. Maybe it was because the rest of the cast had quality ‘low’ alternates whilst Lister’s was a cackling gimp. Was quite glad when they pasted him.

[Ian Symes]

QFT

Quantum Field Theory?

[Anonymous]

At the risk of you taking the piss:

QFT = quoted for truth = I couldn’t agree more.

[Danny Stephenson]

I meant Demons and Angels…

God, he’s pedantic.

[Pete Part Three]

Demons and Angels is great.
Angels and Demons is wank.

[pfm]

It’s only the ending of Angels and Demons that’s shit. Can’t wait to see how boring Ron Howard can make it (actually, after hardly being able to believe how shit the Da Vinci Code film was, do I seriously want to sit through Angels & Demons? Probably not.)

[Ben Paddon]

I still think Waiting For God is a brilliant episode. It’s slow-paced, which is annoying for a 26-minute sitcom episode, but it’s a brilliant bit of religious satire. One of the high points of series I, if you ask me (although I think Future Echoes is probably the best episode of the first series).

Worst episode of the lot? Ooh, there’s so much about Pete Part II to dislike. At the same time I’m still unsure about Bodyswap, which feels really out of place (probably the erratic nature of the laugh track – sometimes it’s not there when you feel it should be) even though it’s very, very funny.

[locusceruleus]

>And Nanarchy is the worst ep of the lot.

Worse than Pete Pt.2? Ok, I’ll bite. Why?

[Author]

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