Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Podey]

I don’t drink. I’ve never enjoyed it and only ever got drunk out social pressure, which you sort of stop giving a crap about as you get older so I stopped around the age of 35. 

…. except when I rewatch ‘Mad Men’ and get an urge to drink whiskey.

[Professor Flibble]

I don’t drink. I’ve never enjoyed it and only ever got drunk out social pressure, which you sort of stop giving a crap about as you get older so I stopped around the age of 35. 

…. except when I rewatch ‘Mad Men’ and get an urge to drink whiskey.

Oh I don’t try to get drunk or even drink at all most of the time. It’s only maybe every couple months I think “ah why not?”

Never watched Mad Men. But, um, I like Christina Hendricks. So that’s, um, something, I guess

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Mad Men is great. But it will give you an urge to drink whiskey and smoke 40 a day 

[Warbodog]

I just drink tea all day, and only because it’s not a good idea to drink coffee all day (max 3? I dunno).

[Professor Flibble]

I just drink tea all day, and only because it’s not a good idea to drink coffee all day (max 3? I dunno).

I used to drink coffee all the time growing up. Think it might’ve stunted my growth a bit

[Podey]

I heard an interview with Jon Hamm once where the host mentioned watching the show made him want to smoke and Hamm was genuinely quite upset by that.

[International Debris]

As someone who is both a beer and wine nerd, I tire of people with the “I’ve only ever drunk terrible stuff that tastes terrible, therefore anyone who claims to like it is pretending,” line. I would not spend this much time and money on stuff I didn’t actually like.

[Dave]

Yeah I love the taste of a lot of booze, and not just because it’s booze. There are some fantastic wines, beers, whiskies and cocktails out there. But I also recognise it’s not for everyone and some people might not enjoy it.

[Flap Jack]

I get through drinks so slowly that if my goal were just to get drunk, any booze which is low alcohol enough to come in pints is not really going to do the job. Gotta go for shots or cocktails if I want that sort of good time! So if I’m drinking beer or cider, it’s because I do like the taste… and because it’s cheaper than the harder stuff…. and because it means I have to get up less. But at least 5% the taste thing.

Anyway, the most important thing to clarify is: drinking is a fundamental part of British culture, and suggesting that MPs shouldn’t be drunk at work is racist.

[Technopeasant]

So is booze being crap a popular or unpopular Red Dwarf opinion?

I’m teetotal, if anyone wasn’t asking.

[clem]

I might have convinced myself otherwise at times but I don’t think I’ve ever really drunk alcohol because I liked the taste. I used to like the effect though, and in my youth I’d go out with the express purpose of getting pissed. These days I very rarely drink. I just can’t enjoy it in the same way any more and I certainly can’t be doing with the hangovers. It’s partly because of my health anxiety as well if I’m honest. I’ve got it in check these days but I couldn’t pour a glass of wine without hearing that woman’s voice from the advert. “… seven types of cancer, including mouth.” Cheers, everyone! 

[Moonlight]

I have gone to work hungover exactly twice in my life at which point I decided I was never going to let that happen again.

[Rushy]

As someone who is both a beer and wine nerd, I tire of people with the “I’ve only ever drunk terrible stuff that tastes terrible, therefore anyone who claims to like it is pretending,” line. I would not spend this much time and money on stuff I didn’t actually like.

My dad is the same way, and I respect a lot of what he’s shared with me. But at the same time, my logic is that if I want a tasty drink, I can just have one that’s not booze. 

[Professor Flibble]

I’ve already said about coke but I also have a weakness for chocolate milkshake. Lovely stuff

Has anyone made Lister’s beer milkshake a thing? I imagine it tastes rancid, but still

[Professor Flibble]

Oh, unpopular opinion. I quite like 20th Century Gothic. 

That piece of music that plays in Tikka to Ride when Lister swaps Kryten’s head and in Ouroboros in the Gelf ship chase sequence. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I have gone to work hungover exactly twice in my life at which point I decided I was never going to let that happen again.

I’ve gone to work hungover twice this week!

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’ve already said about coke but I also have a weakness for chocolate milkshake. Lovely stuff
Has anyone made Lister’s beer milkshake a thing? I imagine it tastes rancid, but still

You get milk and or chocolate stouts these days, and other flavoured beers. It’s not quite what Lister is going for, which is beer flavoured milkshake, but it’s basically as close as you’ll get and they are quite delicious 

[Professor Flibble]

You get milk and or chocolate stouts these days, and other flavoured beers. It’s not quite what Lister is going for, which is beer flavoured milkshake, but it’s basically as close as you’ll get and they are quite delicious 

Ooh, I’ll have to give that a try.

[Turk Thrust]

I believe that Confidence and Paranoia ranked 40th in the Coral Canvass poll, but imo it is comfortably in the top 36. There are so many positives to the episode:

– It focuses on a really solid sci-fi idea.

– Holly is used well both in the running Agatha Christie gag and the delivery of the deadpan, “There’s an emergency going on.”

– Some very funny gags: “Yes mum, I’m just packing my satchel.” “… we don’t use our tongues to clean our genitals.” “I just fed him into the waste grinder and flushed his bits into space.” (I’m guessing the latter was Rob’s line.)

– A good use of the skutters in both the temperature taking scene and, especially, Stabbim.

– Two well cast guest stars.

– Great Howard Goodall music during the space walk and a quite impressive explosion for the time.

– A nice twist at the end that sets things up for the next episode.

[Rushy]

I think it far outshines any of the previous four episodes. It’s the first ‘proper’ Dwarf, and I don’t want to hear any more puerile nonsense about Future Echoes! 

[Flap Jack]

I agree with Turk Thrust’s Confidence & Paranoia compliments, but I like Red Dwarf enough in general that I don’t think all that being true necessarily guarantees the episode a place in the Top 36.

Looking at my personal Coral Canvass scores once again, Confidence & Paranoia got a 7, which puts it in the Top 41, tied with 12 other episodes. In Series 1 terms, it’s my second lowest scorer, above only Balance of Power. But hey, Series 1 is good, so there’s nothing wrong with that.

[Professor Flibble]

I think it far outshines any of the previous four episodes. It’s the first ‘proper’ Dwarf, and I don’t want to hear any more puerile nonsense about Future Echoes! 

I like Future Echoes but I’m not sure I absolutely revere it to quite the same degree a lot of people do. Yeah, I think the last two episodes of Series I are where it peaks.

[Warbodog]

I didn’t realise how comparatively unpopular Series 1 is until the last poll results came in. I don’t ever see its bubble credentials debated on here, even if it is probably most people’s fifth or sixth fave (I probably prefer it over II, III & VI on the whole, but that’s not normal).

[Dax101]

Series 1 has some growing pains. Which is fair as they were still figuring out the show.

[Technopeasant]

Series 1 is second favourite after VI and just above 2. I like my series loosely connected but not serialized it seems.

My unpopular opinion is V is potentially my least favorite bubble season along with IV.

It’s not nostalgia either as 2 and V were the last I saw properly and I really like 2.

[Rushy]

I don’t ever see its bubble credentials debated on here

If series 1 was made after 1988, it wouldn’t have bubble credentials. And what I mean by that is that Grant Naylor lost their focus on worldbuilding, verisimilitude and intricately detailed characterisation very quickly. Series 1 puts in the most effort to get you to believe in and appreciate this world and the people in it, so we give the terrible acting and mediocre jokes a pass. We’re so intrigued by the environment and the atmosphere and all the dynamics of the crew.   

The reality is that series 1 Chris might as well be series 11 Chris. Craig and Danny shouldn’t even be on television yet. Without Stasis Leak, nobody would like Petersen. 

[Technopeasant]

I actually think Chris’ acting is (slightly) worse in III-VI than in 1-2, so…

[Warbodog]

I find Craig distinctly weak in the early episodes, but I don’t see the rest of it. The others are finding their characters, but I think it’s as funny and quotable as the rest.

[Flap Jack]

If series 1 was made after 1988, it wouldn’t have bubble credentials.
And what I mean by that is that Grant Naylor lost their focus on
worldbuilding, verisimilitude and intricately detailed characterisation
very quickly.

Seems a little bit unfair to Series 2 and onwards. The core reason they dialled down the worldbuilding is that the world was already built. The shift in focus was due to the time the series took place relative to other series, not the absolute time that the series happened. Regardless of when Series 1 occurred, the first series is obviously the one where Rob and Doug still need to do the heavy worldbuilding and characterisation jobs. So the “if Series 1 happened in 1989 or later” hypothetical doesn’t really make sense.

As for verisimilitude, it feels like it was pretty much inevitable that they would have to make the trade-off, because there was only so much mileage for great comedy just using the elements that were already on the ship. I mean even by the end of Series 1 they were clearly running out of steam in the verisimilitude department. Confidence & Paranoia basically runs on magic, and Me² handwaves away a fundamental rule about how holograms on Red Dwarf work just so the plot can happen. (OK, technically it was also Confidence & Paranoia that did that, but it was all to set up Me².) Plus it undermines the whole basis of Balance of Power about who has the authorisation to enable or disable the ship’s holograms.

[Technopeasant]

And then they never mention it again, not even when they are planning on picking up Landstrom.

Unless keeping Kryten charged uses up all the extra power they needed for the second hologram.

[Flap Jack]

Yes, Series 1 definitely started the trend of “try everything only once, even if there’s no reason not to try again”.

Go into stasis for the journey back to Earth? Plan it once, then forget about it.

Take an exam to outrank Rimmer? Try it once.

Find Kochanski’s hologram disc? Try it once.

Use a stasis leak to go to the past? Try it once each.

Get back to Earth with the Holly Hop Drive? Try it once.

Use magical developing fluid to change the past? Try it once each.

Overclock Holly to make her a genius? Try it once, despite losing all memories that would warn you off trying it again.

Massively speed up the journey using the matter paddle? Try it once.

Use the luck virus to get better outcomes for almost everything? Try it in just 3 episodes.

Use the triplicator to make infinite supplies? Try it once.

Create your own nanobots and use them to bend the fabric of reality to your will? Try it once.

Ask the supposed avatar for the Universe itself a question? Try it once.

Somehow get out of trouble by zapping Hollister with the time wand and getting him to repeat his last sentence? Oh, try that one at least five times.

[Turk Thrust]

I find Craig distinctly weak in the early episodes, but I don’t see the rest of it. The others are finding their characters, but I think it’s as funny and quotable as the rest.

Definitely.

I wonder how much opinions are influenced by the fact that the audience, who clearly had no idea what they were watching, give such a small reaction to the jokes. 

If those same jokes had come in Series II and beyond, they would be getting huge laughs and some would be considered classics today.

[International Debris]

For me, the bleakness of the first series is part of why it ranks slightly lower for me. I know a lot of people love that, and I do get it, but the antagonism between Lister and Rimmer, and Cat barely even being part of the plot, it’s so fucking cold that it just lies slightly outside what I love Red Dwarf for. I find the characters of Confidence and Paranoia give that episode a weirdly queasy feeling that makes it my least favourite of the first series, even if it’s definitely very creative with a lot of great gags.

[Rushy]

For me, the bleakness of the first series is part of why it ranks slightly lower for me. I know a lot of people love that, and I do get it, but the antagonism between Lister and Rimmer, and Cat barely even being part of the plot, it’s so fucking cold that it just lies slightly outside what I love Red Dwarf for. 

How do you feel about the equivalent section of the book? Just curious

[Dax101]

For me, the bleakness of the first series is part of why it ranks slightly lower for me. I know a lot of people love that, and I do get it, but the antagonism between Lister and Rimmer, and Cat barely even being part of the plot, it’s so fucking cold that it just lies slightly outside what I love Red Dwarf for. I find the characters of Confidence and Paranoia give that episode a weirdly queasy feeling that makes it my least favourite of the first series, even if it’s definitely very creative with a lot of great gags.

Well in their mind at the time this was Steptoe and Son in space. Rimmer and Lister were Steptoe and son. The whole idea was likely that Rimmer and Lister would carry this sitcom, with the Cat and Holly appearing here and there. 

[Flap Jack]

Steptoe and Son didn’t include in its premise that everyone on Earth was dead except for the Steptoes though. Or at least I don’t think it did.

[Professor Flibble]

I like Series I. But yeah, it’s definitely lower in the bubble for me, and I don’t tend to revisit Series I episodes as much as Series II episodes.

[Technopeasant]

See this is what I don’t get, at least since I was an adult if I am watching any I’ll watch all of them from first to last.

[International Debris]

How do you feel about the equivalent section of the book? Just curious

Doesn’t bother me as much because the tone of the books is very different. When I’m reading them I’m there for this bigger, darker version of Red Dwarf, whereas when I’m watching series 1, I miss the subtle camaraderie of the later series.

[Turk Thrust]

“He’s looking so geeky he probably couldn’t get into a science fiction convention.”

I’ve heard some negative comments about this joke in the past, but I like it. It fits into that classic comedy tradition of gently poking pun at your own audience.

I much prefer it to the stuff in Back to Earth Part 2 where they make fun of the guy who doesn’t like science fiction. That feels a lot more obvious.

[Warbodog]

Since Rob and Doug like their specific references, would it have been better as “Star Trek convention” or “Doctor Who convention”?

But I guess the general one has more of the fourth wall breaking sense that they know what they’re talking about.

[Professor Flibble]

Since Rob and Doug like their specific references, would it have been better as “Star Trek convention” or “Doctor Who convention”?
But I guess the general one has more of the fourth wall breaking sense that they know what they’re talking about.

I’ve always found it quite odd how little Doctor Who is referenced by Rob, Doug etc in behind the scenes features, or that none of the actors have appeared in Doctor Who, given the two shows are practically in the same cultural neighbourhood, and Red Dwarf was essentially filling the gap left by Doctor Who in the early 90s.

[Turk Thrust]

Since Rob and Doug like their specific references, would it have been better as “Star Trek convention” or “Doctor Who convention”?
But I guess the general one has more of the fourth wall breaking sense that they know what they’re talking about.

That would have changed the nature of the joke and much for the worse imo.

The joke in the show is Rob and Doug gently mocking their own. If they mentioned another show’s fans, that would have been a lazier approach I think.

[Moonlight]

It fits into that classic comedy tradition of gently poking pun at your own audience.
I much prefer it to the stuff in Back to Earth Part 2 where they make fun of the guy who doesn’t like science fiction. That feels a lot more obvious.

I still feel like that joke is having it both ways and taking the piss out of the show as well.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Since Rob and Doug like their specific references, would it have been better as “Star Trek convention” or “Doctor Who convention”?
But I guess the general one has more of the fourth wall breaking sense that they know what they’re talking about.

It comes hot on the heels of the first Dimension Jump, doesn’t it?

[Ian Symes]

Yeah, I interpret that gag as a direct reference to a Red Dwarf convention, so making it more specific would have made it too Back To Earthy.

I’ve always found it quite odd how little Doctor Who is referenced by Rob, Doug etc in behind the scenes features, or that none of the actors have appeared in Doctor Who, given the two shows are practically in the same cultural neighbourhood, and Red Dwarf was essentially filling the gap left by Doctor Who in the early 90s.

How quickly we forget Hattie Hayridge’s appearances in Bernice Summerfield audio adventures. And Norman Lovett playing Davros.

[Unrumble]

[Professor Flibble]

How quickly we forget Hattie Hayridge’s appearances in Bernice Summerfield audio adventures. And Norman Lovett playing Davros.

Oh I’d known about that but you’d think one of them would’ve appeared in the main show by now. It’s Danny I’d most expect to have appeared in an episode of Doctor Who. I’d cast him as an eccentric Time Lord character if it wasn’t for them all being killed off all the bloody time.

[International Debris]

I think he should appear in Doctor Who and the Draculas.

[Flap Jack]

Yes, it’s a shame that none of the actors from Red Dwarf have ever appeared in Doctor Who, especially not enough of them to warrant a whole G&T feature about it, written by Ian Symes (of Symes’ Law fame) and published in November 2024. That would have been cool.

[Author]

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