Let’s Talk About Mechocracy (on UKTV Play)

The following article is intended for those watching at UKTV Play pace. Dave viewers be warned that the content and comments could contain spoilers. More info.

Praise be, Timewave has now aired on Dave, which means we can try to heal the pain with a brand new episode, namely The One Where Everyone Gets An Election. Continuing the now finally established pattern, we can expect to see Mechocracy appear on UKTV Play within five minutes or so of 10:20pm. Or, if you’re reading this in the future, it’s already here:

THE FUTURE IS NOW.

We really hope that the comments below are a lot jollier than they were this time last week, and the same goes for tomorrow’s LIVE Instant Reaction DwarfCast. Do join us and our guests at 9pm on Friday; the link will appear on here, on our Twitter feed and our Spreaker page at 8:40pm.

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283 Responses to Let’s Talk About Mechocracy (on UKTV Play)

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  1. Happy Timewave is no longer the most current episode of Red Dwarf day. A joyous occasion that comes but once in a lifetime.

  2. After Timewave, I’m hoping the script will just be a big inky handprint.

  3. So from the name, I’m assuming this is The One Where The Dwarfers Vote, yes?

  4. The One Where Everyone Gets An Election

    M’cockcracy.

  5. The One Where Everyone Gets An Election

    M’cockcracy.

    Hung parliament.

  6. Me cock crazy!

  7. So, while we’re waiting, I’m going to ask; what’s your favorite episode from the 3 currently on offer for RDXII?

  8. I remember laughing at this one, a lot!

  9. So, while we’re waiting, I’m going to ask; what’s your favorite episode from the 3 currently on offer for RDXII?

    Cured. But still didn’t like it very much :-/
    (I’m not trying to do the “You like it, I don’t, I win” thing here. I really want it to be good, and some Dave-era eps have worked for me [Can of Worms, and Fathers and Suns except for Taiwan Tony]. But I’ve got to be honest, if this wasn’t Red Dwarf I’d have given up on it already.)

  10. Me cock crazy!

    Still better than “spit on her wrist”.

  11. So, while we’re waiting, I’m going to ask; what’s your favorite episode from the 3 currently on offer for RDXII?

    Cured for me.

  12. I remember next to nothing about individual scenes (it was a LONG time ago), but I know it’s a lot better than Timewave. Very keen to see the scene that was originally in Officer Rimmer and then transplanted into this. Mainly because I liked it, but also because I’ve forgotten that too.

    My memory is starting to worry me…

  13. So, while we’re waiting, I’m going to ask; what’s your favorite episode from the 3 currently on offer for RDXII?

    Siliconia by a country mile. Cured was a very mixed bag, and Timewave was a very mixed bag of shite, piss, blood and sputum

  14. My memory is starting to worry me…

    I’ve forgotten so much about it too, was a year and a half ago though!

    Very keen to see the scene that was originally in Officer Rimmer and then transplanted into this. Mainly because I liked it, but also because I’ve forgotten that too.

    Was that the first scene where Kryten… Damn can’t say yet! 😂

  15. yeah i’d have to agree, Siliconia was my favourite episode of XII so far

  16. My memory is starting to worry me…

    I’ve had a crap memory for years since acquiring an infestation of brainweasels, which is crap, but I was truly joyed when I realised it meant I could enjoy the same stories for the first time again.

    [linkage to Series II Holly re-reading Agatha Christie joke]

  17. >[linkage to Series II Holly re-reading Agatha Christie joke]

    that was Series I, wasn’t it?

  18. >So, while we’re waiting, I’m going to ask; what’s your favorite episode from the 3 currently on offer for RDXII?

    Cured. But I’m pretty sure Mechocracy will supplant that. Can’t say I’m on the XII bandwagon yet. Didn’t like Siliconia, and Timewave,…is Timewave.

  19. >[linkage to Series II Holly re-reading Agatha Christie joke]

    that was Series I, wasn’t it?

    Damn, I’ll have to watch it again. (For some reason I remember it with the non-pixelly Norman Holly but as I probably said, crap memory.)

  20. Just spent 10 minutes hitting F5 then realise I’m on a Mac. Proof that there is no life in the Void, if anyone was in any doubt……

  21. It’s up (on youview)

  22. G&T Admin

    Seems to be up everywhere but the website!

  23. it says “16 episodes available” so it should be up any second now

  24. Wasn’t sure about the first scene, but the second one made it :)

  25. okay i stand corrected, it WAS up but now i can’t see it anymore

  26. Why is it not up?? I’m calling the head of UKTV to demand 5 minutes of my life back.

  27. arrrgghh vending machine

  28. ok, def bottle episode so far. enjoyed the first half.

  29. Still waiting for it on Sky… ⏱️

  30. So far better than timewave

  31. love the smear campaign video

  32. it’s him !!!

  33. enjoyed that.

    rankings so far:

    cured – 8/10
    mechocracy – 7/10
    siliconia – 6/10
    timewave – 3/10

  34. the smear campaign video was hilarious, love the use of footage from previous episodes

  35. I was so bored by the plot. it didn’t feel like Red Dwarf at all.

    Although the stand out moment for me was seeing TT again, it made me smile to hear D.R gives those lines.

    I ain’t someone who normally likes characters being brought back but i got abit nostalgic excitement from it that i haven’t had from this show in a long time.

  36. Ok now that was fan-smeggin-tastic

  37. “KILLED HIMSELF TWICE”

    Does that mean what I think it means?

  38. when I saw the bit with the candles I thought it might contain the bit from the opening credits, but nope. the uktv play bitrate really took a hit at that point tho when it was dark – awful quality

  39. Well, I think that’s a pretty good bottle episode compared to, say, Dear Dave. That isn’t saying much, admittedly. Not exactly my favoured approach for an episode of Dwarf but a change of pace and style isn’t unwelcome since the last three have all been rather similar in setup (the crew encounter a ship/station with a guest cast and end up in danger).

    I think it’s sorely lacking in anything hilarious, it takes far too long for the election stuff to kick into gear and the ending (the election results) is pretty weak, but it flows well…and there’s nothing whatsoever that pisses me off (although the vending machine voices do go a little too broad). Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten are present and correct; true to the characters we recognise.

    I almost begrudge them relying on Talkie. There’s bugger all new material there, and I can’t say I ever found him particularly funny in White Hole, but David Ross is completely on-point, so I’m letting them off.

    Not a classic, but not a wretched mess. I kind of get why I’ve forgotten so much of it. It’s not all that memorable. But, after an episode that is memorable for all the wrong reasons, this is a relief.

  40. Okay, that *was* good. Laugh out loud with a grin on my face good.

  41. ‘Killed himself and the crew twice’ is an interesting detail, isn’t it?

    I thought that was ok. I liked the campaign stuff best, especially the debate questions. The opening patience/manipulation stuff was a fun little vignette too (although it felt like setup for a payoff that never came).

    The Talkie stuff was okay (I enjoyed the return of the distorted angle on Lister from White Hole), but it felt like there was a bit of an over-reliance on rehashing the same old gags as before, and it wasn’t a strong enough way to finish the episode.

  42. I thought that was great fun. I even hate the Talkie Toaster stuff in White Hole but thought he was used well.

    Hard to believe the guy who wrote that wrote Timewave just before/after.

  43. that was my favourite XII episode so far, personally

  44. I agree Pete, in that it took far too long to get going, but I really liked all the material leading up to the election so I can’t say it annoyed in the way that other long set ups have. As I said, I actually quite enjoyed the Talkie stuff but as I was watching the episode on UKTV Play I did find myself checking the ever-present timer hoping that the scene would wrap up in time for a decent ending!

    Election wrap up was a bit quick but the outro to credits was probably the best to date in XI or XII? Except for maybe Krysis?

  45. I thought that was very very good. A lot of fun, which isn’t something you can there was much of last week.

  46. Well, that was silly. But it made me laugh. David Ross kept lapsing out of his Talkie Toaster voice and into his Kryten one but who cares. It even had a proper ending.

  47. Well, I bloody loved that. Bit of an odd concept, but plenty of proper belly laughs along the way so I can forgive it.
    The first half whilst a little drawn out – like, there was no rush to actually abandon ship … – I thought was absolutely brilliant. Second half faulteted slightly but only in the reliance on vending machines again.

    The opening patience scene felt a little weird, but the manipulation punch line really helped it pay off.

    Loved the campaign videos.

    He killed himself twice, I’m guessing that refers to Timeslides?

    Loved seeing Talkie Toaster – voiced by David Ross I noticed – and, whilst not really used any differently than before, it was great having Lister going through the different breads … even getting in the “baps, bagels or baguettes” aliteration from White Hole.

    Shame there wasn’t more of Cat’s b-plot with the reading glasses, that could have been fleshed out just a tad more, maybe got another laugh out of it.

    All in all, not the very best of Dwarf, but a decent Dave era episode I’ll enjoy rewatching.

    “NOOOOOO TOOOOOOOAST”

  48. They could have jumped into the episode in the middle of the yellow alert and done a bit more with all the election stuff, but Kryten’s faces in the opening scene were great and the whole ‘manipulation’ payoff was fantastic so I’ll forgive them that.

    Love it when Rimmer and Cat get paired together and they were quite well-matched in this (power-hungry politician + psychopath). And the shots from the old episodes were great, despite Kryten’s head changing shape from clip to clip.

    Nice to see Talkie although his initial dialogue was SO similar to White Hole that I initially thought it was just cut together from the old episode, like they did with Chef in South Park after the Scientologists kidnapped Isaac Hayes.

  49. There was lots to love about that. Patience/Manipulation was lovely.

    “Isn’t it time machines were given a voice?”
    “But Sir…”
    “Shut up, I’m talking.”

    Another bit that tickled me. In fact, I really don’t think there was anything I particularly disliked in there.

    Oh, and Skutters!

  50. I think Talkie Toaster was about the only series XII secret that’s been kept?

  51. I think Talkie Toaster was about the only series XII secret that’s been kept?

    I for one still don’t know what happens in “Skipper”.

  52. The election wrap up was very quick but I’m pretty sure at the recording they didn’t even show the Kryten acceptance speech? So it felt like there wasn’t even an outcome to it at the time!

  53. Bloody loved that. Felt very warm and snuggly dwarf through out. Bit balance of power like for the modern times but not so relevant that it will offend anything in uk or us political worlds, which is good cus it wont date that much or feel that out of sorts, closest we got to anything trump was the wall nod. Series X and early series vibe. Laughed through out. There isnt any Big comedy moments though, but lot of smiling big grin from me and plenty of chuckles. Liked the smeeeeeeeear head stuff,

    Cheered the return of david ross and TT and I would just like to say a bloody heartfelt thank you to absolutely everyone who didnt spoil me on that, not even a shit uk tv person this time! David Ross 10 Norman nil on that score.

    Now off to read what you thought, and see if the two rimmer deaths has started a debate already.

  54. So Talkie Toaster has been in the garbage hold for “almost two decades” yet they’ve been in deep sleep and stasis for at least hundreds of years since then!?

  55. Well, that was as good as I remembered from the recording, very happy with that. And that Talkie wasn’t spoiled beforehand!

  56. I really enjoyed that. I don’t have anything more to say at the moment but I’m sure I will.

  57. Yep, enjoyed that. Silly, funny and the characters were on point. I even enjoyed the meandering to get to the main plot. Not the best episode ever made but made me happy. Thumbs up.

  58. What a great episode! Really funny, loved it from start to finish, and the Talkie Toaster cameo being a surprise was excellent, at 1st i thought it was just going to be recycled old david ross lines but there was new stuff! This is just what we needed after last week. The rimmer ending remided me of ‘the GO AWAY’ from stasis leak and ‘it’s a smegging garbage pod!’
    Can’t wait to watch again, the smear videos too were awesome, and how many skutters??

  59. I think the opening credits might actually be a Mechocracy-free zone.

  60. Just watched it again – still enjoyed it.
    One punchline didn’t work for me during the debate – when rimmer said “i believe whatever you believe”, but otherwise hard to fault. Decent if not outstanding episode. Big cheer during the credits which was nice to hear, and is it just me or is an alternative end theme (gunman, hammond organ recital night etc) long overdue?

  61. Not sure what to think about that some good stuff some not so good stuff. Reused sound cues meh. Bringing back Talkie was a real surprise but couldn’t Doug just write something new? Ship feels dead without Holly.

    I don’t get the Doncaster joke? I really loved the ‘new file’ joke during the debate though.

  62. I really don’t think there was anything I particularly disliked in there.

    “Talkie Toaster” was in the wrong font.

    Also, I think Rimmer’s scream at the end was unneccessary. His sitting there, catatonic, with “DoyouwantsometoastDoyouwantsometoastDoyouwantsometoast..?” echoing and fading into a shot of the ship That would have been a nice ending.

  63. At the recording, Danny’s ‘what am I, a monster?’ line took a bizarrely long time for him to get right, he forgot it about 3 times somehow. Massive groan from the audueince the final time since everyone else could recite it by then :P

    Don’t think there was much chopped from this episode. According to my notes:

    Lister: “What, abandon Red Dwarf?” Rimmer: “Of course abandon Red Dwarf, do you see any other ships around here?!”.
    Cat: “I can think of some people I’d like to leave behind”. After Kryten leaves, Lister asks Cat if they’ve got time to play some more Renegade Monks. Cat: “Are you crazy?” then starts playing. Lister decides against it and takes the game out.

    During the smear video, Cat claimed Lister was taking his cat to a cat meat festival in space.

  64. And hey, they can keep a secret.

    This is where I say I worked it out from the G&T set report a long time ago and didn’t quite know how to feel about that. Was very surprised it was David Ross though, and the White Hole model. Had expected Lenahan and that fan-built Future Echoes prop. But yeah, the set report spoiled it for me personally the day it went online. Not sure that’s anyone’s fault or quite how you’d vet such a thing. I’ve kept my mouth shut though, so there’s that.

    The episode was… okay. Kind of Duct Soup + Dear Dave, two episodes I like more than most probably do but that are no-one’s favourites. I think the lighting really drained the joy out of this one though, more than any other XI/XII episode so far. It’s just too fiddly for a sitcom shot progressive scan, we’re losing performances inside of it. Beautiful in one sense, but essentially dysfunctional to a comedy shoot.

    It was pretty dull though. I need to give it a second watch. It really felt like it was counting out the half-hour and it’s becoming quite guessable which episodes were in the original six for XI and which ones were knocked out to hit the twelve, and this is definitely one of the latter (alongside Samsara & Timewave for sure). So far XII has been the Dave series I’ve enjoyed the least – there are none I’ve turned against particularly but after Cured which I loved, we’ve had a ‘shit with very good bits’, ‘good with very shit bits’, and ‘fine with neither very good nor very shit bits’. M-Corp and Skipper are going to have to be *fantastic* to redeem this run. As it stands it’s apparent that series X is by far the high watermark of the Dave era, with only Krysis and Cured since as effortlessly enjoyable. I’m just sick of watching a new episode and leaving with a page of notes.

  65. I don’t get the Doncaster joke?.

    As a Sheffielder, I loved the Donny joke.

    Did the Skutter passing in front of the camera remind anyone else of Remastered? And, if so, do you think it was intentional?

  66. Also the clapping. Like 3 times was it? Great jokes sure but they were hardly ‘or we could use the teleporter….’

  67. YES! Now that was a big improvement! A fantastic bottle episode, heavy on the bottle. I was so happy to see THAT character back, and even an homage to THAT shot! Excellent! The material given to him could be a bit funnier/less recycled, but oh well.

    I thought most of the applause was merited, honestly, especially the reveal of ***k** *o****, but the one going into the final credits was a bit odd.

    I’m sure somebody somewhere found this episode incredibly tedious and offensive, but I thought it was brilliant. Definitely either #1 or #2 of the series so far.

  68. well, it wasn’t as bad as Timewave, which is pretty much all I was daring to hope for

  69. I did think they were leaving it a bit late to get on with the plot honestly, but the reveal of exactly what Kryten was doing was funny enough to merit a long time being sent on setting it up. If you were going to trim anything it would be the yellow alert/virus stuff, but I don’t know what you’d replace it with other than perhaps a scene showing the machines living better lives, walking around maybe. But that would probably be shit

  70. > “402 was wondering if we’re taking the dispensing machines with us?”
    > “Dispensing machines? Of course not!”
    > “Why?”
    > “For the same reason we’re not emptying all the tampons from the tampon dispenser!”

    ?? Why? Because the all-male crew doesn’t need them?
    But then they still may need things from the other dispensers which they are also not emptying.

    Is the ‘joke’ funny? Does it even make any sense?

  71. I did think they were leaving it a bit late to get on with the plot honestly,

    yeh like cured for example at least for me…….could lose a scene or two at the start of the ep

  72. when I saw the bit with the candles….. the uktv play bitrate really took a hit at that point tho when it was dark – awful quality

    Thought that was just me, was pausing it and resetting the router, haha.

  73. I did think they were leaving it a bit late to get on with the plot honestly,

    yeh like cured for example at least for me…….could lose a scene or two at the start of the ep

    but the scene at the start of Cured was important for the ending of the episode, and without the first scene it wouldn’t make sense

  74. the 404 joke was great which Rimmer said to Lister yet the audience did not laugh ‘sadface’

  75. I don’t get the Doncaster joke?.

    As a Sheffielder, I loved the Donny joke.
    Did the Skutter passing in front of the camera remind anyone else of Remastered? And, if so, do you think it was intentional?

    Yes i was going to say, thats how you do a skutter front pass.

  76. I liked that. I *really* liked that. That made me happier than any Dwarf has since Out Of Time. :D

  77. The Rimmer promoting Lister scene was lovely. Played brilliantly by Craig and Chris.

  78. ?? Why? Because the all-male crew doesn’t need them?

    He was just putting them down by comparing them to sanitary products you smear in bodily fluids and throw away. Also yes he possibly is suggesting they’re as useful to the all-male crew as tampons, although tampons are useful for nosebleeds.Insults don’t particularly need to make 100% sound logical sense, I mean Holly’s dad wasn’t really a baboon’s rump.

    the 404 joke was great which Rimmer said to Lister yet the audience did not laugh ‘sadface’

    That was a classic Dwarfy line, like tune into sanity fm etc

  79. I wasn’t really up for another Kryten-breaking-his-programming lesson but it paid off very nicely and then there was a new alert gag which did more than make you think of that better one from Legion. This episode generally did well at playing off well known character traits but delivering jokes that felt fresh. It felt light years beyond the recycled guitar and Cat/Rimmer gags of the last few weeks.

    I had a constant feeling of “this feels new but fits perfectly with what we know” which was very welcome.

  80. (Having just finished writing this, I apologise in advance if it’s not the most coherent thing I’ve written)

    I have yet to read people’s opinions but I just finished watching and I really bloody enjoyed that. At the recording, I was a *little* bit nervous once the episode suddenly turned into an election plot. It just felt like an old sitcom cliche/trope that I could never imagine Red Dwarf ever doing and I really was liking where I originally thought the episode was going with the e-cargo – that felt like a (and forgive me for using the phrase) “proper Red Dwarf concept”. Once it suddenly turned into an “election episode”, I actually did think “What the fuck?!”.

    I did end up liking where it went but I wasn’t sure if I genuinely did or if it was the experience of actually being at a Red Dwarf recording. Watching it now, it was just fun watching the pairing of Lister/Kryten and Rimmer/Cat working against each other. The smear campaign videos brought some genuine laughs and a smile from me. And I love the callbacks to the past – even reusing clips from the BBC era (first time I think they’ve done that on the show) and bringing back Talkie Toaster. The best thing about that was that it didn’t feel forced at all to me. This was in the last 5 minutes and we only had 2 scenes with him.

    Trying to remember anything that was cut and all I can seem to recall are several more Doncaster jabs (hence the Tiny Teaser in the set report). I might be remembering wrong though and could’ve just imagined them.

  81. Odd how they’ll put in very specific continuity gags like “killed himself twice” but forget things like “Rimmer doesn’t need food, heat or oxygen” or “Tobacco machines don’t serve cola”

  82. Loved it, so far my favourite episode of XII, but the way this series has gone it’s not really very hard to achieve that title.

    The main issue I have with Mechocracy is its pronunciation. Meh-cock-ra-see or mek-ock-ra-see? or some other way I’m oblivious too?

  83. Odd how they’ll put in very specific continuity gags like “killed himself twice” but forget things like “Rimmer doesn’t need food, heat or oxygen” or “Tobacco machines don’t serve cola”

    There was a discussion about whether or not Rimmer feels heat after Cured, and I suggested that it is established in Legion that he does. After just rewatching Legion today, I can confirm that Rimmer can feel “pain and pleasure” the same as any human, from which we can infer that he does feel heat/cold. In Mechochracy, Rimmer dismisses food and oxygen, and specifies that he wants heat. Ergo, nobody forgot anything.

  84. Ok that was a much better episode! Felt much more Dwarf-y !

  85. One more thing I forgot to add: this is the second episode in XII to have applause over the credits. The first and last time they did this was VIII IIRC.

  86. The main issue I have with Mechocracy is its pronunciation. Meh-cock-ra-see or mek-ock-ra-see? or some other way I’m oblivious too?

    I’d go for mech-ocracy with more of an eh than an uh because it’s a play on words of “mech” and “-ocracy”, but then mechanical has more of an uh so WHO NOSE

  87. That scene where the Skutter goes across the hallway… going for a West Wing walk and talk do we think?

    Also where were the diesel decks filmed? Do we think that was filmed at the same time as Siliconia? If so, good planning. They could have easily just put Kryten in a corridor somewhere for that scene. Everytime I see another area of the Dwarf I’m a bit happier. They’ve done a good job at making the various ships feel quite big this series. All have had a few rooms to them.

  88. The silly premise episode is good and the interesting premise is horrible.

    Props for actually keeping the ship claustrophobic and not filled with X’s mechanicals.

    Plus Cat isn’t a massive mechoc this week. Goodo.

  89. They’ve done a good job at making the various ships feel quite big this series.

    They keep re-using that one corridor (which is fine [edit: downright necessary]) and shooting it in exactly the same way (not so fine)
    The shot of Rimmer mopping looked exactly the same as that of him Rimmering. Maybe it was actually the same corridor, though. And its not as if you can do a lot with corridors other than paint them a different colour, and it’s not like the re-use of corridors hasn’t been obvious before. Basically, I’m nitpicking tiny details because I can’t find anything to really fault the episode for as a whole. It was good

  90. And I love the callbacks to the past – even reusing clips from the BBC era

    It was like the first time we saw the classic Doctors in new Doctor Who.

  91. “Fine.”

  92. The abortion/unsaved document bit during the debate was amazing.

  93. Here’s a thing though – the CCTV clips in the campaign videos and the presence of TT in the garbage disposal prove that in the Dave era we’re on the ship we lost after V, not the one from VIII.

  94. The Red Dwarf from V is the Red Dwarf from VIII. It is just disassembled and reassembled by nanobots.

  95. That was ok. Not great, but ok.

    Where the hell was snacky though?!

  96. Far better than last week that’s for sure. Probably the best of XII.

    It’s the only episode thus far that’s felt properly like Red Dwarf. It helps that it just has the one premise and sticks to it pretty firmly, so there aren’t things just discarded and convenient plot devices.

    It’s still a bit out of tune for me with the characters, you can hear them but there’s still a bit of static, Cat is pretty close this week which is good after last week’s shitshow.

    I liked the smear campaign, even though it was pretty VIII-y, and I enjoyed TT reappearing though the voice was a little off but I’ll forgive that after 20 plus years away from a character with a handful of lines. And the font was wrong, which is odd considering the effort on the rest of it.

    And that shot from Talkie’s viewpoint made the episode for me.

    That’s the kind of reference I can enjoy, it’s part of the plot, there’s a prop, a scene, rather than stuff like Smee Heee from Siliconia which is just “hey remember this catch phrase” and serves no real purpose in universe.

    2 more of this quality and XII can be downgraded to a category D write off from category B. Hopeful.

  97. I haven’t enjoyed an episode of Red Dwarf that much for a long time. Lots of laughs and pleasant surprises. To me, it felt like the closest the Dave era has got to classic Dwarf. Loved it! Brilliant. Best of the series so far. More of that please.

  98. I enjoyed TT reappearing though the voice was a little off but I’ll forgive that after 20 plus years away from a character with a handful of lines.

    But he *is* legit.

  99. It was like the first time we saw the classic Doctors in new Doctor Who.

    One of the most powerful moments of The Eleventh Hour is when the Atraxi plays a bunch of clips from Classic Who/9 and 10 and Matt Smith emerges from them like the badass he is. I was worried from reading comments before watching that we’d be having a clip show on our hands, but I thought the re-use of old material was very well executed.

  100. Here’s a thing though – the CCTV clips in the campaign videos and the presence of TT in the garbage disposal prove that in the Dave era we’re on the ship we lost after V, not the one from VIII.

    Actually I’m fairly sure they could have just extracted it from Rimmer’s memory.
    Which would mean they just revealed that this is the original Rimmer we’re dealing with.

  101. That was ok. Not great, but ok.

    Where the hell was snacky though?!

    That would have been better and made more sense than seeing Talkie!

  102. That was brilliant. Night and day compared to Timewave, that was spot on. It feels like nit picking to mention the vending machine voices were a bit grating… but they were a bit. But I really enjoyed that. That’s 3 out of 4 for me in XII so far and this is possibly in the number 1 spot right now… will see how it stacks up for me after a rewatch or two.

  103. >That would have been better and made more sense than seeing Talkie!

    It really wouldn’t. Plus the fact that the live audience would have no idea who this random robot was or why they should care about him.

  104. I live in a wifi black hole so I’ve only just managed to download and watch it…

    Made me chuckle quite a bit! That’s definitely washed the ‘Timewave’ stench off me. My biggest grumble would be the promoted/demoted dialogue during the yellow alert. Not because it was bad but because it brought the plot to a halt before it even got off the ground. That 5 minutes could have been better spent on the ‘campaigns’.

    Still, solid episode. Series XII so far for me has been a case of ‘interesting idea, not taken full advantage of’. Mechocracy has come the closest so far to delivering what I expected when I read the blurb beforehand.

  105. >That would have been better and made more sense than seeing Talkie!

    It really wouldn’t. Plus the fact that the live audience would have no idea who this random robot was or why they should care about him.

    But that’s neither here nor there. Talkie was just shoe horned in and really didn’t belong in that scene, I mean it was ok, a nice surprise. Doug should have tried to come up with something new instead.

  106. I wonder if we hadn’t had a vending machine with a stutter way back in series I, and they instead gave us one for the first time in series XII, people would complain about that being too silly/grating.

    Actually, it was a lisp, wasn’t it? Either it’s referred to as a stutter in the episode or I’m just mixing up stutter with skutter

  107. I’ve been having a rethink. I now believe that the lack of mentions of The Om Song or the Boys From The Dwarf have completely ruined this episode.

    I don’t think there was even a Best Guess this week, was there?

    Awful.

  108. We had a “gimboid” last week but only a “gimp” this week which is similar but three less letters therefore we’ve been smegged over here.

  109. Wasn’t the Talkie Toasting Song going to be over the credits? Maybe that was Series VIII?

  110. Utterly random thought, but when was the last time Lister wore one of his signature hats? When did they stop being a thing?

  111. I noticed the opening credits where Rimmer is laying down with others looking at him with candles must have been cut?

  112. Utterly random thought, but when was the last time Lister wore one of his signature hats? When did they stop being a thing?

    He wore (a big) one in Nanarchy. Don’t recall one since. Before that would take us back to VI. Can’t remember exactly, but he definitely had one in Emohawk.

  113. “Tobacco machines don’t serve cola”

    Cat said ‘what about you?’ to the tobacco machine, cola was the one before

  114. That was so good! So good! Especially after Timewave!

  115. Not bad! We’ve had plenty of comparisons to series 1 & 2 episodes recently but Mechocracy is the only one that really could have been a lost episode from that era.

    The most interesting thing here was the whole Rimmer/Lister promotion/demotion thing which felt genuinely nasty, and I guess another reason it felt like series 1. It was almost uncomfortable for a moment… though it was great because AT LAST it felt like a different type of scene, even if it made no odds to general proceedings. It makes me wish there was more actual continuity between stories and less of a reset button each time. I would love a 6 episode single story.

  116. Right so the entire promotion demotion bit was from Officer Rimmer, wasn’t it? Was it repurposed and re-recorded on the shooting night of Mechocracy?

  117. There is plenty of continuity, it’s all in the back references.

  118. That bit was definitely filmed in front of an audience on the night. They did a few takes playing it in different ways (Cat mainly, e.g. sort of muttering under his breath not to stand up in one take and then being more direct about it in another).

  119. If they’d said Rimmer “killed himself three times,” that would have cleared that up. Could be more deliberate Doug teasing.

  120. They’re right, you know. Doncaster is shit.

  121. They’re right, you know. Doncaster is shit.

    Unprotected sex in Donnie joke was great because it flowed. I find that this kind of classic Dwarf joke hasn’t been flowing recently, they’re all quite cumbersome, I think the gold standard is “quicker than a whippet with a bum full of dynamite”, it’s funny, lyrical and suits the characters, I don’t think a man born around 150 after operation Yewtree would be making references to it, or the Leeds United team from the 1970s, too specific, and would require some kind of qualification in Earth history.

    You can imagine Doncaster will still be a shithole worth taking the piss out of in the 2100’s.

  122. Unprotected sex in Donnie joke was great because it flowed. .

    I imagine it to be more of a spurt.

  123. I feel like a right curmudgeon for saying this but that was great until Talkie showed up. I did smile when he first appeared and appreciated the POV of Lister, but it was just a rehash of Talkie’s first scene in White Hole. I didn’t care for the ending either. How was the Cat meant to have gotten Rimmer in the garbage hold? And is Lister supposed to have just reneged on the deal and left Talkie in there after all?

    Anyway, up until Talkie it was a cracking episode. Great to see Rimmer in power-hungry utter bastard mode as in Officer Rimmer, and I liked him and Cat interacting in a different way than we usually see. Rimmer trying to get through to Cat that he was blackmailing him and Cat then playing along in front of Lister and Kryten was brilliant. The science room scene felt unusually long but not in a bad way at all. There was some quality dialogue in there, good jokes and really good character stuff throughout the episode like Lister paraphrasing Shylock’s speech, Rimmer bullshitting the machines, all the campaigning scenes and the debate. And I liked the vending machines. I’d have liked to have seen Snacky but at least we didn’t get the return of TT. The other TT.

    Wasn’t *that* keen on the first scene but the payoff was excellent. Standout moment of the episode, maybe the series so far, was Rimmer realising he’d been tricked by Kryten and stopping his mopping. Lovely bit of physical comedy by Chris.

    I really fucking hope this episode’s as good as I think it is, and it didn’t just seem a lot better than it is on first watch compared with Timewave. Despite wasting Talkie, the ending and the slightly weak resolution of the Cat’s glasses plot, I’m saying Mechocracy > Siliconia > Cured > Timewave

  124. >Right so the entire promotion demotion bit was from Officer Rimmer, wasn’t it? Was it repurposed and re-recorded on the shooting night of Mechocracy?

    Yup.

  125. I was so happy to see Talkie Toaster back again! He was just the thing that made this episode even better than before; and this is including the callbacks to episodes past (especially Quarantine; must have had enough shots of Rimmer and Kryten looking insane to suit the bill).

  126. Very much liked that. Takes a bit too long to get into the main plot, but it’s difficult to see what else they could have done with the election stuff, and I’m a sucker for a bottle episode. It feels like it wraps up properly and the cut to credits isn’t jarring, for the first time this series.

    NOOOO TOOOOAAASSSTTT

  127. Oh, and quick question for anyone at the recording: How was Kryten’s costume change handled? Was all the stuff in the suit VT, or was there a costume change partway through?

  128. Ship-set, one linear plot, just the cast and surrounding techno-detritus. Rimmer being genuinely mean. Clever and dirty and very funny. Oh yes… LOVED IT. And one more word that I haven’t used in a long long while – effortless. As an episode it didn’t wheeze along in a laboured overworked manner – it glided. 9/10.

  129. I got a big laugh out of the reveal of Talkie. Everyone who referenced a surprise return from the past in this episode had me thinking we’d get a Tony Hawkes vending machine, so I was totally not expecting TT.

    Rimmer promoting Lister had me expecting a slightly clunky routine but they nailed it.

    Absolutely loved the bit where Rimmer calls a skutter “little fella” and gives it an election sticker. Fucking adorable.

    Really enjoyed that. Overall a solid, enjoyable entry for a mid-season bottle episode. Nothing amazing, but nothing bothered me. Expecting things to really pick up in M-Corp to a crescendo in Skipper. I really really want Skipper to be the best episode of the Dave era.

  130. It would have been great if they’d used David Ross’ ‘swivel on it, punk!’ moment for the old shots used to make Kryten look mad. :D

  131. It would have been great if they’d used David Ross’ ‘swivel on it, punk!’ moment for the old shots used to make Kryten look mad. :D

    There’s a huge chunk of the casual audience who wouldn’t recognise him as Kryten though. Most of the fan service stuff this series can stand on its own for new viewers but having a shot of David Ross would have just been confusing.

    Although that does answer a question I had. I’d wondered why they used a picture of random skeletons instead of the actual Nova5 scene, but best guess is that there were no clean pics of just the dead crew without RD crew or Kryten who isn’t recognisable as Kryten, in shot.

  132. I REALLY loved that ending! Best one so far in XII and the whole of XI for me.

  133. One of the best things about Talkie’s return is the way it serves the story. I always thought that Emohawk sometimes felt like an excuse to get Duane Dibbley back. And Ace Rimmer never had the same effect as he did in Dimension Jump.

  134. Definitely a valid point that with much of XI and XII so far they have had great concepts that haven’t been utilised to their full potential, whilst with Mechocracy they had a crap concept that they did absolute wonders with!

  135. I worked out it was Talkie Toaster five days before I saw the episode, but only because I was rabidly re-reading the set reports. This one will be a pleasure to re-watch in the week – best of the series so far for me.

  136. I worked out it was Talkie Toaster five days before I saw the episode, but only because I was rabidly re-reading the set reports. This one will be a pleasure to re-watch in the week – best of the series so far for me.

    yeah i figured that it’d be Talkie Toaster long before i saw the episode too, but even so i still cheered when i saw him

  137. I’d worked out it was Talkie when I realised the surprise mentioned in the set report couldn’t be ****a* **v***, although I initially thought he would end up winning the election when the machines realised they didn’t like either candidate and decided to vote for a third party.

  138. One episode you’re down, the next you’re right back up again.

    Was Talkie’s opening line lifted from White Hole? It sounds dead-on exact, whereas you can hear some age in Ross’ other lines.

    >I got a big laugh out of the reveal of Talkie. Everyone who referenced a surprise return from the past in this episode had me thinking we’d get a Tony Hawkes vending machine, so I was totally not expecting TT.

    I thought this too, so when I saw TT I cartoonishly dropped my jaw and gasped. Seems that David Ross is legit at keeping secrets.

  139. Definitely the best of XII so far. I’d wondered months ago if the toaster would be back for this one but during the episode I forgot all about that and actually had a strange idea that the garbage hold was going to be home for some horrible Oscar the Grouch-type social pariah filth machine, which would have been a bit weird (although the ‘I’m sorry, I wasn’t paying attention’ toilet was my favourite character in series one). Also, it was very cute that the lift was the same lift (or at least had an identical voice) to the one from Give and Take.

    Supplementary benefits of the episode: it’s provided me with a few more screenshots for my collection of pictures of Rimmer and Cat smiling at/around each other.

  140. I think the most exciting thing about this episode is that we finally found out what PD stands for! It is punishment duty.

  141. the ‘I’m sorry, I wasn’t paying attention’ toilet was my favourite character in series one

    Yes! I love that toilet (and there’s a phrase I don’t use often!). Wouldn’t have minded a little cameo from him.

  142. I thought it stood for Painting Daship

  143. >I think the most exciting thing about this episode is that we finally found out what PD stands for! It is punishment duty.

    It’s typically “Punishment Detail”, but I wasn’t aware there was a mystery about this…?

  144. Very keen to see the scene that was originally in Officer Rimmer and then transplanted into this. Mainly because I liked it, but also because I’ve forgotten that too.

    Was this the manipulation section? It does seem a little bolted on when you look back at the episode – I thought the manipulation skills were going to come back into the plot, Kryten using them somehow to win the election. I’d have preferred that to them just parachuting in Talkie to resolve things – as much as I love David Ross, and as good as it was to see the character back, it did feel like a retread of the much better scene from White Hole. The manipulation stuff ended up as a funny ‘bit’ that feels entirely disconnected from the rest of the story.

  145. Piss drinking
    Petersen’s dick
    Prostitute duties

  146. >Was this the manipulation section?

    No, it’s the bit where Rimmer promotes Lister and then demotes him. It was recorded originally for one of the first scenes in Officer Rimmer, clearly didn’t make the (early) edit of that. And so the lines were ripped out of that script and tucked into the Yellow Alert scene here. Re-recorded for Mechocracy 6 weeks-ish later (it wasn’t using the footage from the earlier shoot).

    I get the feeling that the “manipulation” stuff feels a bit disconnected X-style, but I think it works pretty well in setting up some animosity between Kryten and Rimmer, which is the main plot of the episode.

  147. Pretending Deardavehasapropernarrative

  148. Those complaining the toasters logo is different, the nanos did that when they last
    altered the whole ship.

  149. I remember hearing I think, on the dwarfcast for Stasis leak, an argument over whether it was painting or punishment.

  150. Doesn’t Rimmer start preparing to paint the ship right after getting PD in Stasis Leak?

  151. I forgot to mention, but that opening model shot, what the actual FUCK was up with that? It looked like they didn’t even bother to track the stars with the camera movement, it’s like Red Dwarf awkwardly starts to turn.

    The disparity in quality between different model shots is honestly really getting to me. There is no good reason Red Dwarf in 2017 should be struggling to replicate the quality of model FX it had 25+ years.

    That opening shot is something I literally could’ve fixed in 10 minutes if I was comping it myself. What’s this professionally-produced TV show’s excuse?

    Good writing though. Lovely episode minus that shot.

    STOP USING THAT SAME FUCKING FLY-BY CUE YOU CUNTS.

    Again, enjoyed the episode a fair deal. Solid work.

  152. Aaron Sorkin hasn’t got much to worry about.

    That was alright. The best bits (for me) were the Yellow Alert clip we’d already seen, and Rimmer blackmailing Cat into being his running mate. With all the glasses talk he did. Oh and Cat blending his glasses, but that was a bit Black Books and not very Red Dwarf.

    I think the tampon dispenser insult didn’t work, personally. Because Holly is nothing like a baboon’s rump. Whereas a snack/tobacco/drink dispensing machine is fairly similar to a tampon dispensing machine. Unless there’s a dispensing machine hierarchy that I don’t know about.

  153. That episode was a jolly good time. I’m getting more and more of a series II vibe from this series.

  154. Also the clapping. Like 3 times was it? Great jokes sure but they were hardly ‘or we could use the teleporter….’

    I think the “manipulation” punchline, which got the most massive non-toaster related applause, is up there or thereabouts.

  155. >Doesn’t Rimmer start preparing to paint the ship right after getting PD in Stasis Leak?

    No, he whines about the amount of time that Lister has been sentenced to PD by Hollister, but it’s never specified what the specific punishment will entail *in that scene*. We then cut to the next scene where Rimmer moans that the punishment they’ve both been given is “painting the smegging ship”. There’s nothing to indicate that PD automatically means ‘painting the ship’.

  156. I feel like a right curmudgeon for saying this but that was great until Talkie showed up. I did smile when he first appeared and appreciated the POV of Lister, but it was just a rehash of Talkie’s first scene in White Hole. I didn’t care for the ending either. And is Lister supposed to have just reneged on the deal

    Hi clem, liked reading your post. Have to massively disagree that Talkie was only a rehash though. Its set up by Kryten mentioning there is a “swing floor”, the election plot has therefore left us needing to do a deal with someone unpleasant. Its Cameron having to coalition with Clegg, its May having to deal with the irish unionist etc, its something they have to do for power but far from their first choice and not in the interests of any machine voting for them to have their future decided because of toast. Within the full dread of this Lister has to meet Talkie again. The joke and feeling of this plot twist require a massive known and unpleasant and knowing reveal. Then we get that image and that howdy doodle again in a weighty recall with more at stake this time. Yes then we get lister repeating his refusal of toast, the character is reminded for a less knowing audience and yes we get a long bread list again and its all the same basic joke again, but at least we get a longer more exacerbated bread list, and talkie even tricks him into the question again as lister is even more defensive and deliciously warn down and annoyed. If that had been it. I would agree they did nothing new with the exchange. But next we go into bargaining Lister is now forced to say Yes to toast and they haggle the the level. Its a great new low for lister, perfectly plotted, a real reason to hang the resolution on the balance of power of this loved character, a subversion of the scene we already know and with as much variation as I can personally think you can get out of a character who is one dimensionally obsessed and funny for that reason. The only other time i would bring David Ross back would be a plot where they need some toast for a vital reason and find he has given up the dream. Its a perfect layered and reasonably return of character. I think the best reuse ever of a reason to bring someone back, or at least as good as Norman returning in vii.

    As for lister not going through with the deal, and the toaster being stuck with rimmer.
    Ever been cheated by a political party and then stuck in a crap situation as a result of
    the lies of the party in power?

  157. > Unless there’s a dispensing machine hierarchy that I don’t know about.

    Hollister in Series VIII says he’s “gonna bust his ass down to tampon dispenser” when he finds out a coffee machine revealed classified information.

  158. One of the best things about Talkie’s return is the way it serves the story. I always thought that Emohawk sometimes felt like an excuse to get Duane Dibbley back. And Ace Rimmer never had the same effect as he did in Dimension Jump.

    Yes.

  159. There’s nothing to indicate that PD automatically means ‘painting the ship’.

    Probably because “Punishment Duty” doesn’t say anything about painting.

  160. >Hollister in Series VIII says he’s “gonna bust his ass down to tampon dispenser” when he finds out a coffee machine revealed classified information.

    He does?! Jesus.

  161. >Doesn’t Rimmer start preparing to paint the ship right after getting PD in Stasis Leak?

    No, he whines about the amount of time that Lister has been sentenced to PD by Hollister, but it’s never specified what the specific punishment will entail *in that scene*. We then cut to the next scene where Rimmer moans that the punishment they’ve both been given is “painting the smegging ship”. There’s nothing to indicate that PD automatically means ‘painting the ship’.

    But Lister does say “I’ll get the space suits” and goes out as Holister comes in. It more than likely punishment detail is, or can be in some circumstances, painting the ship …

  162. Or POTATOES! Remember the potato PD? POTATOES! A great big pile of them. Potato decortication.

  163. Or POTATOES! Remember the potato PD? POTATOES! A great big pile of them. Potato decortication.

    Peeling Duty

  164. I agree there’s absolutely a reason plot-wise for Talkie in the episode. It’s just the scene itself and the dialogue is a bit too same-but-not-as-good as White Hole. Seemed like Craig wasn’t going for it with the list of bready things, because he was concentrating on remembering the line maybe?

    And yes politicians lie, but Lister’s not a politician, and breaking a promise, even to a toaster, seems out of character. Obvious joke but I’d have preferred the scene in the garbage hold to end after they ask Talkie what he wants, and a final scene in the sleeping quarters with Talkie and Lister about to munch his way through a shitload of toast.

  165. >Probably because “Punishment Duty” doesn’t say anything about painting.
    >But Lister does say “I’ll get the space suits” and goes out as Holister comes in. It more than likely punishment detail is, or can be in some circumstances, painting the ship …

    Well, that’s my point, guys. PD= “Punishment Detail”. In this case, it’s painting the ship, as Rimmer has already told us (via Lister) but PD doesn’t automatically mean painting the ship. Hollister presumably told them what their punishment detail would involve, hence Rimmer moaning about it in the next scene.

    Ah, fuck it. See here: http://reddwarf.wikia.com/wiki/Punishment_Detail

  166. Lister lies to Rimmer in Marooned. Because of his guitar.

    He says lazily in mechocracy that as long as he gets his telly back he is in for helping kryten, and he is lying to make sure the ship has power, food and oxygen but screwing over the toaster he clearly hates even more than when he hates on rimmer.

  167. >Doesn’t Rimmer start preparing to paint the ship right after getting PD in Stasis Leak?

    No, he whines about the amount of time that Lister has been sentenced to PD by Hollister, but it’s never specified what the specific punishment will entail *in that scene*. We then cut to the next scene where Rimmer moans that the punishment they’ve both been given is “painting the smegging ship”. There’s nothing to indicate that PD automatically means ‘painting the ship’.

    If you didn’t know what PD stood for then “painting duty” might be a reasonable assumption.

  168. It WOULD have been nice if Talkie had unexpectedly been revealed as a third-party candidate at the last minute and won the election, only to have the crew tolerate him for five minutes before unplugging him and dumping him back in the garbage hold again at the end, but the plot had already changed direction several times and there’s only so much they can cram in. And I didn’t feel short-changed by any of it at all.

  169. Yes. PD definitely stands for “punishment detail” because that is an established military/seafaring thing. But if you didn’t know that, because of the fact that the specific punishment they’re given is painting, it’s entirely reasonable to infer that it means “painting duty”. I certainly did before I discovered what it really meant.

    >Hollister in Series VIII says he’s “gonna bust his ass down to tampon dispenser” when he finds out a coffee machine revealed classified information.
    He does?! Jesus.

    It’s surely not especially unreasonable that being situated in the toilets is far worse than being situated in an officers’ lounge somewhere. I don’t think you need to read any more into it than that.

  170. The manipulation stuff ended up as a funny ‘bit’ that feels entirely disconnected from the rest of the story.

    I disagree actually. The whole smear campaign and debate demonstrated entirely how politicians try and manipulate the public into giving their vote. I thought it blended in quite well.

  171. Just rewatching and have questions over the smear campaign vids. Where did they get a voice over guys from? (in-world I mean, not actual production). Also, who is the bloke they show when saying Kyrten can’t tell the living from the dead?

    As for the “killed the the crew, and himself twice”, I took that as killed the crew (once) and himself -twice-. Which fits with what we already know and doesn’t reveal anything more about the end of VIII

    Also, I’m kinda sad that Cat got rid of his glasses. Would have been nice to have some character development. Reading is cool!

  172. I was worried after last weeks episode, because i really didn’t like it. This one was great. They could have done an hour with this premise.

    It’s interesting though that Doug said he ran out of ideas for Holly, because to be honest Holly would have fitted perfectly in this episode. If not one of the candidates for the presidency, then imagine the hilarity had he been mediating the debate instead of the vending machine.

  173. To be fair, being a tampon dispenser with artificial intelligence wouldn’t be the most fun, because the people using you aren’t always going to be in the best of moods.

  174. Seemed like Craig wasn’t going for it with the list of bready things, because he was concentrating on remembering the line maybe?

    From his performance I assumed he was reading the lines off an ‘idiot board’ off-screen.

  175. Well, that was a huge improvement! What a relief. I was beginning to lose hope.

  176. I’m so glad I totally forgot that I’d guessed Talkie Toaster from the set report, as it came as an absolutely wonderful reveal for me. I didn’t like Lister’s bread list (it started off well, with all of them being something-bread, I was hoping he’d go off into a list of absolutely daft things to try and cover all bases, but it just went the way of the original). The first scene reminded me of some of the weaker opening scenes of X, in that the jokes felt really signposted, but then it was all made up for with what came after.
    However, once the Yellow Alert was over, I laughed heartily at almost every joke (particular favourite: Cat not getting Rimmer’s long, stupendously unsubtle hints), and really enjoyed the ‘crew dealing with a ship-based problem’ approach, as it’s not something we’ve had this series. Felt very III/IV to me in that sense.
    Second favourite behind Siliconia.

  177. I did also think Craig might have been reading. Either way, it seemed a bit off.

    Lister lying isn’t unprecedented, I know. I suppose leaving Talkie in the garbage hold just seems cruel.

    One little thing I liked and forgot to mention was the machines’ inane reactions to the canvassing, “Oh I like him!”, “I’m ticking his box” etc.

  178. Lister may not have gone back on the deal… My head cannon says Rimmer was sent down to the garbage hold to get Talkie out which is when Cat locked him in. Although admittedly we are massively unlikely to see Talkie in the sleeping quarters in future shows as agreed in the deal.

  179. “Those complaining the toasters logo is different, the nanos did that when they last altered the whole ship.”

    Yes, the logo featured is the original logo, before the JMC made all its cutbacks.

  180. It’s not as if the Toaster was crowbarred into the episode to the detriment of the plot nor was the entire plot only there to bring the Toaster back. The story stands on it’s own merits and Talkie added an enjoyable element but wasn’t put on some huge pedestal. It was a perfect way to have a former character reappear in an organic way.

  181. “Those complaining the toasters logo is different, the nanos did that when they last altered the whole ship.”

    Yes, the logo featured is the original logo, before the JMC made all its cutbacks.

    I’m almost certain that the choice of font on the White Hole Talkie was a subtle joke at Star Trek TNG’s expense from the special effects team, given Crillee is so noticeable in TNG. Star Trek has replicators and the the most highly advanced thing on Red Dwarf is a toaster with artificial intelligence.

    In a way, if that was a joke then it was niche in the first place and even less people would see it now, but it’s just odd that they went through so much trouble with the display and the shell (which honestly looked more detailed than the original) that it’s a different font.

    Maybe it was just an expense they didn’t want.

  182. >Lister may not have gone back on the deal… My head cannon says Rimmer was sent down to the garbage hold to get Talkie out which is when Cat locked him in. Although admittedly we are massively unlikely to see Talkie in the sleeping quarters in future shows as agreed in the deal.

    I quite like that. And Talkie could have annoyed Rimmer so much that he lost it and irreparably smashed up Talkie.

  183. I quite like that. And Talkie could have annoyed Rimmer so much that he lost it and irreparably smashed up Talkie.

    I like that too, first degree toaster-cide!

  184. A little underwhelmed but didn’t hate it. The abortion argument represented in terms of documents was one of my favourite jokes of the Dave era, though.

    And yeah, with the “killed himself twice” line must mean Timeslides.

  185. Right now I’m preferring series 11 to 12. Two amazing episodes could make it even.

  186. The death in Timeslides was replacing the original death. The timeline changed so he didn’t die in the original accident. So the second death has to be Only the Good… either way.

    With regards to Talkie Toaster not being moved from the garbage disposal: politician doesn’t follow through on election promise shock.

  187. I’m 8 minutes into this episode, and I’ve paused it for a moment because they’re talking about Lister’s gran.

    Isn’t that Kochanski?

  188. I love it when we talk as if Red Dwarf still has a coherent line of continuity.

  189. The death in Timeslides was replacing the original death. The timeline changed so he didn’t die in the original accident. So the second death has to be Only the Good… either way.

    With regards to Talkie Toaster not being moved from the garbage disposal: politician doesn’t follow through on election promise shock.

    But the Rimmer who died in Only The Good was dying for the first time because the radiation leak didn’t happen to the nano-created crew. So even if you make the argument that current Rimmer is a hologram of series 8 Rimmer, that Rimmer has only died once that we know of.

    I’m not saying it’s inconceivable that it’s a reference to series 8, but I find it highly unlikely.

  190. Or… what if the second death is Rimmer’s fake death in ‘Blue’? As far as we know, only Lister knew that is was faked so that he could jog on as Ace. The rest of the crew mourned him.

    But then, if this is that Rimmer, they presumably would have realised it was faked.

    Smeg knows.

  191. Rimmer dies and is then resurrected by nanobots along with the rest of the crew. Being resurrected doesn’t undo the initial death.

    Also this Rimmer is the Rimmer from both Back to Reality and Only the Good. This is confirmed by BTE and The Beginning. So one of the deaths has to be to turn the living Rimmer from Series VIII to a hologram Rimmer in BTE onwards.

  192. Also this Rimmer is the Rimmer from both Back to Reality and Only the Good. This is confirmed by BTE and The Beginning. So one of the deaths has to be to turn the living Rimmer from Series VIII to a hologram Rimmer in BTE onwards.

    It is the Rimmer who saved the day in “Only the Good…” – an event not depicted onscreen, so not necessarily the Rimmer in the episode itself.

  193. This is confirmed by BTE and The Beginning.

    Highly contentious statement!

  194. And even though I disagree with your interpretation of those lines in ‘The Beginning’, I don’t think you can exactly quote something that was vague and unresolved by design as confirmation of anything.

  195. When Talkie is first turned on, he sounds like he did in Series 4. Then he sounds different, as if David Ross is struggling a little with the voice. I wonder if they used some vintage audio for the initial boot-up.

  196. ‘The One Where Everyone Gets An Election’.

    Wasn’t that Pete Part 1?

  197. I’m assuming the second death is Timeslides … the other “deaths” fake or not, aren’t exactly him killing himself, whereas in Timeslides he blows himself up

  198. Regardless of what happened in Timeslides, it’s not as though everyone else didn’t still basically somehow also remember that he died in the radiation leak with the rest of the crew originally as well… is it? IS IT? Oh god, it isn’t, is it? I’m glad I don’t think about these things too much. Do I?

  199. Did Cat and Rimmer (or even Lister and Kryten, after a few minutes) remember the Inquisitor? Did anyone apart from Cat remember the unreality pocket where Cat disappeared from existence? Why COULD Lister remember the white hole? AAAAARRRGH

  200. God I fucking hate Red Dwarf.

  201. I’m 8 minutes into this episode, and I’ve paused it for a moment because they’re talking about Lister’s gran.

    Isn’t that Kochanski?

    I took that to be ‘the woman who raised him and said she was his gran, but had actually found him in a cardboard box’ rather than trying to get into the biology of ouroboros.

  202. Lister’s Gran has been mentioned a few times, and shown in Future Echoes.

  203. “I’m assuming the second death is Timeslides … the other “deaths” fake or not, aren’t exactly him killing himself, whereas in Timeslides he blows himself up”

    But if the ‘Timeslides’ death is canon, it overwrites his original death in ‘The End’. So we can’t be counting it as anything other than a joke created as a punchline for the episode.

    I suspect that the second death is the one at the end of everyone’s favourite episode ‘Only the Good’, and is accounted for by this Rimmer being a hologram fusion of the original Rimmer and the Series 8 Rimmer.

  204. i don’t think it really matters does it

  205. I just watched this again (something I can’t say for Timewave) and enjoyed it even more this time. It’s a return to the kind of ensemble character-oriented story that made the show great in its early years, and I think all the pieces fit together much more smoothly than most other Dave-era episodes. Plus the satirical touches worked really well.

    I still think that Talkie feels a bit like a gratuitous cameo from the glory days – maybe doing something slightly fresher with him would have helped – but it’s a minor complaint in an otherwise good episode.

  206. I think the opening credits might actually be a Mechocracy-free zone.

    Just checked and you’re right – there are no clips from Mechocracy in the title sequence. I think the last episode not to be represented in the title sequence was Cassandra.

    EDIT: In fact, I think those might be the *only* two episodes not to be represented in their respective series’ title sequences (disregarding I & II obviously).

  207. i don’t think it really matters does it

    I don’t think this is the place to huff over things not mattering.

  208. What was actually said was that Rimmer “KILLED HIMSELF TWICE”, surely this refers to the deaths by his own actions in The End and Timeslides, if indeed he does die at the end of Only The Good it was because of the ship being destroyed and not anything he did himself. So fair to say he has died probably 3 times and killed himself on 2 of those occasions.

  209. BUT HOW DO THEY REMEMBER HIM DYING IN THE END IF TIMESLIDES BECAME THE OFFICIAL TIMELINE INSTEAD? Actually both Rimmer and Holly clearly did, enough to react to the change to the timeline at least, so fuck knows really.

  210. Also I suppose Rimmer killed hinself at the end of Out of Time as well, one way or the other, if you overlook the technicality that he was already dead.

  211. It still really bothers me that his conscious experiences with the Red Dwarf crew over all these years still amount to just a fraction of the time he spent hunched under a blanket in the dungeon in Rimmerworld. I can’t unfeel that level of colossal awfulness.

  212. BUT HOW DO THEY REMEMBER HIM DYING IN THE END IF TIMESLIDES BECAME THE OFFICIAL TIMELINE INSTEAD? Actually both Rimmer and Holly clearly did, enough to react to the change to the timeline at least, so fuck knows really.

    The crew retained memories from both timelines?

  213. It still really bothers me that his conscious experiences with the Red Dwarf crew over all these years still amount to just a fraction of the time he spent hunched under a blanket in the dungeon in Rimmerworld. I can’t unfeel that level of colossal awfulness.

    Considering his hologramatic nature, one would imagine that would be something he’d literally delete from his memory.

  214. We know the original timeline from The End is definitely still canon because Rimmer killing the crew has been referenced countless times since Timeslides.

  215. It still really bothers me that his conscious experiences with the Red Dwarf crew over all these years still amount to just a fraction of the time he spent hunched under a blanket in the dungeon in Rimmerworld. I can’t unfeel that level of colossal awfulness.

    I like to think he actually turned himself off for the majority of the 557 years he spent locked away in a dungeon on Rimmerworld.

  216. It still really bothers me that his conscious experiences with the Red Dwarf crew over all these years still amount to just a fraction of the time he spent hunched under a blanket in the dungeon in Rimmerworld. I can’t unfeel that level of colossal awfulness.

    Considering his hologramatic nature, one would imagine that would be something he’d literally delete from his memory.

    Oh, I would LOVE to believe that was true. I wondered the same thing about the 12th Doctor after he spent xxx billion years in his confession dial but I dunno if he pulled off some other weird Gallifreyan mind wipe thing instead. (Different programme, also.)

    I would imagine there were quite a lot of other horrible formative Rimmer memories he might also want to delete, though? Unless all the TFTM tampering put him off that sort of thing.

  217. I like to think he actually turned himself off for the majority of the 557 years he spent locked away in a dungeon on Rimmerworld.

    Mental image of two worry-marbles and an offline light bee sitting in the middle of a dungeon for several centuries like a weird stubby cock and balls sculpture.

  218. I really liked Mechocracy. I thought the episode started off a bit slowly, but once they got into the plot it was very good. I have a bit of a soft spot for election episodes in sitcoms and I think this episode did enough that was funny and unique to the characters to make it one of the better ones I’ve seen. The smear campaign videos were really good, although to be honest when people have brought up immigration when I’ve been canvassing for Labour I wouldn’t mind a smear video distracting them.

    It was nice to see more Rimmer/Cat interactions. Talkie Toaster was fun, if a bit recycled. Probably the best bottle episode of the Dave era.

  219. The way I saw it was the original Doctor dies in the opening of Heaven Sent and creates billions upon billions of clones of himself who also promptly die, and the final clone who becomes the “real” Doctor is only alive for a relatively short time, with the knowledge, but not the memory of the time he spent in the dial.

    And Rimmer is an amalgamation of fuck red dwarf continuity

  220. the 404 joke was great which Rimmer said to Lister yet the audience did not laugh ‘sadface’
    That was a classic Dwarfy line, like tune into sanity fm etc

    It often surprises me what jokes the audience don’t laugh at, e.g. “That’s not a man – that’s Lister!” in Series X. To me, the best joke in the show, but not a sound from the audience.
    I think this has been the best episode of the series so far. I especially liked the inclusion of some slightly deeper level humour that people might not notice at first, like the Cat smearing Lister for bringing a cat on board, without which he wouldn’t exist.
    I was slightly disappointed that John Lenahan wasn’t in it, but that’s just my personal preference from the two Talkie actors. David Ross does a good job.
    I also assumed Rimmer’s second death to be the one in Timeslides.
    Interesting that there didn’t seem to be much payoff from the opening scene, breaking with the very set formula of so many recent episodes… but then I realised there was. Kryten has no intention of genuinely helping Talkie, despite Lister’s negotiations. Which makes you wonder if he kept any of his other promises to the machines.

  221. I watched Psirens yesterday, and the line “There’s a fifty per cent chance we have [a Psiren] on board already” gets a laugh, despite not being a joke. There was also an instance of a funny line not getting a laugh in that episode as well, but I can’t remember the specific line. Audiences are weird.

  222. >‘The One Where Everyone Gets An Election’.
    >Wasn’t that Pete Part 1?

    I was thinking of the scene in ‘Krytie TV.’ When people complain about series XII’s repetitive guitar references, at least we’re past the point where everyone gets an erection in back-to-back episodes.

  223. Absolutely, absolutely LOVED this episode. Easily ties Cured for me at the very least. Maybe I’ll come down from this post-amazing-new-Red-Dwarf-episode high, but right now, perhaps my favorite or second-favorite of the Dave era. I really think it’s a classic. It felt like true Dwarf, of course with a modern twist.

    It’s like the opposite of Timewave in that, even apart from the controversial aspects, the writing across the board for that episode just seemed off, what with Cat’s repetitive dissing of Rimmer and the “spit on the wrist” and the Planet Rimmer stuff run into the ground. With Mechocracy, the writing was just sharp throughout. The patience and manipulation sequence, the Technician 2.5, even things like Rimmer using double-speak to try and blackmail the Cat. And of course all the back-references in the negative campaign ads and the special guest are just icing on the cake.

    I counted at least three times this episode where the audience broke into applause, and I think all three of those times was earned. This episode is something really special. To me it’s the Platonic ideal of what a good Red Dwarf episode in a modern era looks like. Does it take a while to get to the election stuff? Maybe. But I don’t mind because the episode was well-paced, and every single scene was solid beforehand. Could they have mixed up the toast jokes a little more instead of lifting them almost word for word from White Hole? Sure. But that sequence is so joyous it’s hard to complain. And it’s awesome that finally, finally, someone just gives in and accepts some toast. That said acceptance ties in well with the episode concept, as a form of back-room dealing… This episode just really clicked for me, start to finish. I freaking loved it.

    Oh, and Rimmer died twice, NBD. So that little continuity mind-bomb nugget is just the whipped cream on top of the callback icing on top of the really funny, sharp, solid cake of a really super-good episode.

    (Also, I’m revising my theory on the XII DVD color from the green grating of the Starbug 19 set to the Yellow Alert-lit Science Room with all the monitors saying Yellow Alert.)

  224. Just rewatched. Chris Barrie and Doug are absolutely smashing it with Rimmer in XII so far, even in Timewave he was a rare bright spot.

  225. It doesn’t bother me at all about the familiarity of the Talkie Toaster scene. Talkie, by nature, is a repetitive character asking the same questions over and over again. That’s why he’s hated so much. It makes sense that the conversation is pretty much the same as last time we saw him. I can imagine Lister and Talkie have had this very same conversation a million times before. That’s what led to the waste disposal and a 14lb lump-hammer.

  226. You’re all making me feel like I caught a good episode in a bad mood. I’ll give it an encore tonight.

  227. Yeah, Timewave did not work for me at all but Mechocracy was a real tonic. I really enjoyed it.

    I kind of agree with both camps on the return of Talkie Toaster. It DID have a story purpose and in that regard didn’t feel crowbarred in. It was also just nice to see him again. However, rehashing the same White Hole joke just felt something of a shame. I really laughed at his manipulation of Lister into asking the question, that was right up my tree, but it did feel like it then degenerated.

    Anyway, minor, minor, MINOR quibble because the rest of the episode was great. Best of XII so far for me.

  228. I have a small nitpicky point.Why doesn’t Rimmer just change to soft light and walk out of the garbage hold?

  229. He still has a light-bee. He can walk through stuff, but he can’t go far if his light-bee is still stuck in a locked room.

  230. It still really bothers me that his conscious experiences with the Red Dwarf crew over all these years still amount to just a fraction of the time he spent hunched under a blanket in the dungeon in Rimmerworld. I can’t unfeel that level of colossal awfulness.

    He did get over those events abit too quickly but id rather that to a certain degree then keep reflecting on events we seen but turned into a various point of view jokes about it.

  231. to be fair, Holly spent three million years by himself

  232. And he did go a bit peculiar to tell you the truth.

    I bet if Rimmer spent 600 years by himself slowly going insane only to quickly get over it after being saved in a Series XII episode there would be 15 minutes dedicated to discussing it in a DwarfCast and deriding it as lazy writing the likes of which would never happen in Series I-VI ;)

  233. Rimmerworld is probably the only episode i remember as a kid having issues with because i thought him being on a planet for hundreds of years was abit too big and ambitious of a concept to just shrug off at the end.

    Although i have come to appreciate the ambition behind it though as its about Rimmer starting off alone on a desert planet before creating a world full of himself, a society that evolved over many years and turned against him.

  234. doesn’t bother me at all about the familiarity of the Talkie Toaster scene[…] It makes sense that the conversation is pretty much the same as last time we saw him

    I liked Lister’s updated list, and the repeated rhythm of the speech. The various ‘-breads’ were a highlight for me.

  235. Watched this again and enjoyed it a lot more, I get why it’s so well received now. Mainly, to my embarrassment, noticed a 3-4 minute chunk I didn’t recall meaning I must have dozed off briefly on Thursday night. This ‘up til 11’ thing ain’t working…

  236. I have to leave early on Fridays so I don’t watch them on the Thursday. Thus far I’ve managed to wake up early enough that I’ve been able to see eps 2-4 before going to work on Friday morning.

  237. For me, this was better than Time Wave (what isn’t?) but having said that it was another strange episode I just felt awkward watching. Two good episodes to start the series then two duff ones. I wonder how the final two will play out…

  238. While I was having a big shit earlier it occurred to me that ‘reviving the toaster’ in White Hole was one of the specific events Kryten said would be undone at the episode’s end. And that prior to that he was in several pieces after a brutal attack by Lister. So he shouldn’t REALLY have been intact or conscious in Mechocracy but I’m not going to think about that obviously.

    Also there should have been some unsubtle costuming joke made with the design of the rosettes which I would have thought would be the one bit of the whole campaign Cat would actually have got quite excited about. AND Lister and Cat should have had rosettes as well and Cat’s one should have been like Rimmer’s but much more elaborate and stylish.

    Also the episode should have been called ‘Rosettes’.

  239. Talkie Toaster was in the Garbage Hold which is where Kryten found him in prior to White Hole.

  240. In teeny tiny toaster pieces though?

  241. Kryten repaired him 20 years ago whilst everybody else was in stasis going to the Nova 3 in Krysis.

  242. Well, if the crew did something, and then the events were erased from time, it makes perfect logical sense that the crew would do that same something again, only this time without the influence of timey wimey shenenagins. So they very realistically would have rebuilt the toaster again. Maybe they even redid the whole White Hole plot again except without the titular space phenomena, and just found a much more boring solution to the problem in the end.

  243. On 3rd viewing I put Mechocracy as the best of XII so far. Siliconia SHOULD have been the standout but the execution left a lot to be desired….

    Doug has done a great job since he took on director duties. However, I would love to see how the show looked with someone else overseeing proceedings. I also think Doug concentrating more on the scripts and not having to worry about the directing side could help matters considerably. He may disagree…and fair enough, it’s his show and he can make it how he damn wants. :D but I would love for there to be a shake-up for XIII and XIV, if they, indeed, happen!

  244. I’m still irked that Andy DeEmmony hasn’t gotten more Red Dwarf work.

  245. Am I right in thinking that there’s no reason why the toaster’s reconstruction (or even the Intelligence Compression experiment on Holly) should have been erased from time at the end of White Hole?
    Kryten says “Blocking up the White Hole has eradicated its influence. The time it spewed into the universe no longer exists.”
    But the influence of the White Hole didn’t reach Red Dwarf until after genius-Holly turns herself off. Specifically, it seems to reach them at the point when Kryten and Rimmer are exploded and reconstructed while retrieving supplies from the cargo deck.
    Holly’s Intelligence Compression was completely unrelated to the presence of the White Hole, and merely coincidental.
    Therefore, despite what Kryten says, the White Hole had no influence on the Holly/Talkie Toaster experiments and therefore those incidents should still have happened. The “So what is it?” scene, and playing pool with planets no longer happened, but everything prior to Kryten and Rimmer’s explosion still should have.
    Unless I’ve completely mis-remembered the events of that episode?

  246. Since we aren’t shown what happens after time reset it’s very possible that’s actually what happened and Kryten just got it wrong

  247. Given that Lister remembers playing pool with planets in his ‘pot noodle’ speech in Demons And Angels, I think we can assume that the events of White Hole don’t get erased cleanly.

  248. Or that a good joke/concept always trumps absolute adherence to continuity.

  249. Wrong thread. You want the “Let’s Talk About White Hole (on BBC Two)” thread that’s been live for 9734 days, encompasses 17,488 posts and includes at least 9 separate arguments about Series VIII.

  250. Whilst I love your use of maths there, I was of course referring to the theory Rubber brought up that Talkie Toaster shouldn’t be intact in Mechocracy, as his being rebuilt was apparently undone by (and along with) the events of White Hole, and thus he should be re-destroyed/ de-rebuilt at this point.
    Although this is hardly the time to be conjugating temporal verbs in the past impossible nevertense.

  251. Smashy toaster White Hole contemplation was weeks ago! Right now I’m far more concerned with why the on-screen episode title in Entangled is much taller than the rest of the series 10 on-screen episode titles.

  252. I’m so upset that past impossible nevertense didn’t make the final cut, irrespective of how obvious it is that Bobby is reading it off of an idiot board. The edit after “we don’t exist here anymore” is painfully obvious, and it’s a good line.

  253. The M-Corp episode preview in next week’s Radio Times pays particular tribute to Rob Grant’s writing on the episode, adorably.

  254. Fuck sake. I mean I guess casual fans might be unaware of the split, but you’re writing a review in a professional publication, and the writing credit is right there IN the episode TWICE.

    Unless Rob really has come back and they blew the surprise, which would be funny despite a 0% possibility of actually happening

  255. Due to the effects of M-Corp’s latest update, Rob Grant’s writing credit has been turned invisible.

  256. Someone get Doug to sign a copy of the interview

  257. For a moment there i got excited that rob grant might have secretly returned for an episode… Darn it!

  258. Scans pls.

    Can I insert a photo of it without any effort whatsoever?

  259. Scans pls.

    Can I insert a photo of it without any effort whatsoever?

    Wish my other half would agree to that…

  260. Not to be an entitled cunt, but is there a review coming?

  261. G&T Admin

    Not to be an entitled cunt, but is there a review coming?

    Maybe.

  262. thought: given that the whole “promoted to technician 2.5” scene was originally from Officer Rimmer, is Lister referring to Rimmer as “technician 2.0” in Officer Rimmer a reference to that?

  263. thought: given that the whole “promoted to technician 2.5” scene was originally from Officer Rimmer, is Lister referring to Rimmer as “technician 2.0” in Officer Rimmer a reference to that?

    Yes.

  264. Belated comments: I was at the filming for this one, so that combined with the fact that it’s a great episode makes this one of my favourites.

    Nearly twenty-one months I’ve been sitting on the fact that Talkie Toaster and David Ross make a comeback. TWENTY. ONE. MONTHS! Before the recording I actually thought “Wouldn’t it be great if something like Talkie Toaster comes back in this episode?” but I didn’t think it was that likely, so it really was a great surprise.

    Pretty much the only thing I was unsure about at the time was that I didn’t believe that Rimmer could be persuaded to do the sweeping. But after watching TOWEK with Rimmer having discovered a love/appreciation for sweeping, it now seems more plausible.

    Some things that I remember which were cut:

    A few lines have been cut from the end of the yellow alert scene. After Rimmer and Kryten leave, Lister asks Cat (jokingly) if they should go back to their game. Cat says “Are you crazy? Of course!” then sits down at one of the computers to continue their game. Lister then switches off the computer, says to Cat “come on,” then they leave. They obviously decided to end the scene with more tension.

    In the first take they filmed for the yellow alert scene they got through the entire thing from start to finish without *any* smeg-ups. You better believe that got a round of applause. (They then did retakes anyway, so to be clear what was used is not necessarily that single take. But still, it was pretty impressive.)

    In the bunk room scene when all the machines are on strike, Lister was initially not that worried about it and says he’s going to watch telly, until he’s told that the telly is on strike too. He’s then a lot keener to solve the problem. It’s funny but doesn’t really gel with conversation about how they’re going to get food, air, etc., so no loss for that to be cut.

    A bit was cut just before Cat put his glasses in the blender. After Lister’s speech, Cat said something like “You’re right!” then puts his glasses in the blender. It’s a bit jarring to me with that bit removed.

    I actually thought all this time that it was Rimmer who won the election. He won the election to become president, but then gets locked in the garbage hold anyway. So either it was a truly cunning and devious red herring to foil any leaked details about the ending, or I just got it wrong.

  265. >I actually thought all this time that it was Rimmer who won the election

    I was a little unsure last week, when I was watching it “again” as in my head, Rimmer was stuck with Talkie at the end as part of his ‘Presidential duties’. I guess it probably didn’t help that the election results were on VT on the night and the VTs only get shown once while the live scenes are retaken multiple times.

    You’ve remembered a lot more than me though. Impressive!

  266. That’s interesting that there was a line cut before Cat blends his glasses – I did think it was a bit rushed and I assumed poorly directed. But it would have flowed better with that line, I guess.

  267. G&T Admin

    A bit was cut just before Cat put his glasses in the blender. After Lister’s speech, Cat said something like “You’re right!” then puts his glasses in the blender. It’s a bit jarring to me with that bit removed.

    Ah, that’s interesting. I think the smash cut into him blending them when Lister’s barely finished his sentence improves it greatly.

  268. I agree. I thought the abruptness made it funnier.

  269. Thirded. It’s also not the type of joke Red Dwarf normally does, so it’s welcome in my book.

  270. I have a tiny problem with the way there’s a short sound of the blender clicking before Lister starts saying “smarter”. The subsequent sound of the blending (as he says “smarter”j is fine before it switches to the shot of what Car’s actually doing. I don’t think you could actually fix it in the edit though… but that clicking sound. Urgh.

  271. >Everybody likes something I thought was a bit shit
    Typical

  272. Utterly random thought, but when was the last time Lister wore one of his signature hats? When did they stop being a thing?

    He wore (a big) one in Nanarchy. Don’t recall one since. Before that would take us back to VI. Can’t remember exactly, but he definitely had one in Emohawk.

    He wore the smaller hat for I – III, and alternates with Lister’s second hat through IV. It makes a cameo appearence in Ouroboros where Kryten returns it to Lister after its monthly scrape. The larger fur and leather hat appears in Camille for the first time and remains Lister’s hat of choice until VI, when it is abandoned on the Kinatawowi planet in Emohawk. He briefly dons a traditional Russian Ushanka for the scenes aboard the Leviathan in Epideme.

  273. He wore one in M-Corp.

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