Let’s Talk About Cured (on UKTV Play) News Posted by Ian Symes on 5th October 2017, 08:00 It’s been 349 days since an episode of Red Dwarf was released on UKTV Play. Well, they’re back at it this morning, or possibly this afternoon, or maybe even this evening. Yes, we’re not yet sure exactly when you’ll be watching a brand new episode of your favourite show; last year, Twentica was released at just gone 9am, so we’ll be surprised if it’s not there in time for lunch. Whenever it does arrive, the link will appear in large friendly letters below this paragraph. Unless you’re reading this after it’s been released, in which case the link is there in large friendly letters below this paragraph. THIS IS A LINK TO CURED, THANK YOU BYE. As should be plainly obvious by now, this discussion thread is intended for people watching online ahead of the TV broadcast. Our spoiler policy dictates that if you want to talk about Cured before 9pm next Thursday, you have to do so within a thread that bears the teal banner above. If you’ve not watched the episode yet, you’re strongly advised not to read the comments on this post for now, as it’ll be a spoilery free-for-all the very second the episode drops. But do catch up before our first LIVE Instant Reaction DwarfCast of the series, which starts at 9pm on Friday. The link will appear on here, on our Twitter feed and our Spreaker page at 8:40pm, ready for you to listen and chat along live. We’d really love to hear from you on the night, as the live chat via Spreaker was a real highlight last year. If you can’t join us, the download version will be here on Saturday, and in the meantime, please use this thread for all your thoughts, opinions and theories on the series opener.
Unfortunately (or is that fortunately) I’m off work ill today so can watch it early! Any idea when it will be added?
Unfortunately (or is that fortunately) I’m off work ill today so can watch it early! Any idea when it will be added? As Ian says, could be anytime. No-one knoooows.
Pleasantly early, just about to watch it with a cup of tea. Great excuse to put off doing any work for a bit
Part 1 felt alright – a slower pace which helped. I know that with new Dwarf the quality of the gags will always come under more scrutiny than older Dwarf, when the reality is that older Dwarf was not entirely averse to the cheaper jokes either, something I feel gets overlooked sometimes. I’m cautiously optimistic for Part 2 but it feels like a strange way to open a series, rather quietly. As if it IS Episode 7 of XI rather than Episode 1 of a new run…
Yeah, Part 1 was set up, I’m really enjoying Part 2. There’ve been some quite big laughs from me since the ads.
That was great. Never expected a Yewtree joke in Red Dwarf. And I’m sure Rupert Murdoch will love hosting this episode on his Sky service.
The most worrying thing for me is that this still had the same ‘abrupt ending’ problem that plagued XI. This one was nearly as jarring as Officer Rimmer’s for me. I’m not really sure the twist ending will stand up to scrutiny, but that’s for a rewatch. Those were my only real two complaints; generally enjoyed the ep.
Incidentally, Ian, regarding this bit in the set report: “The final scene does however contain something that will generate a lot of discussion upon broadcast, and probably a fair few arguments. Something happens that has happened in Red Dwarf a little too frequently in recent years, and it’s not a trend that I’m keen on.” I’d (obviously wrongly) presumed this was another case of Disposable Woman Syndrome which previously struck down Katerina, Sim Crawford and Professor Edgington – was it the abrupt murder of Telford?
Yeah, it won me over. I think the ending wasn’t QUITE as abrupt as Samsara or Officer Rimmer but it was swift. Some great lines in there, though. I won’t quote them as we’re still pretty early in the day but I was happy with that in the end. The pace was actually pretty sustained (if you remove the ads, which it’s a shame we couldn’t), it built as the episode unfolded.
Great opening. Danny is starting to become the real star of the show. The ignition sequence was brilliant but Rimmer’s comments about ramps on RD almost crossed the line.
Oh, and when Rimmer mentioned Hitler’s body double I thought that was going to be the twist, so that was a nice bit of misdirection.
Even though I was at the recording, this was the ep I remembered the least. Overall strong start, second half was excellent. DJJ is by far the stand out for me and was superior in XI too. Glad I tattooed him on me.
Who is the real sick man in this so called society. Hitler with his mass murder? Or is it the businessman in his suit and tie?
I thought the ending was fine and I hated the endings to Samsara and Officer Rimmer! Wasn’t a fan of the opening scene until it linked in well at the end. Didn’t laugh as much as I thought I would, think a rewatch is in order!
Saw the recording night of this so i already know it’s top notch Dwarf, meltdown / justice quality brilliance like back in the day with a touch of VI vibe as well. Love the guy playng hitler, love the cat arc in this episode. tiny bit repetative of lemons etc in the robot reveal at the end, but thats just tieing up the last human thing yet again in the show, im more than used to such fudges by now in writing, and i probably couldnt do better. The “oh it is mine” made me laugh on every performance on the night. Right time to see the final edit. I’m wondering if the kryten head moment is different and we saw a shit mock up on the night or if its the same just to be bizzare. So glad i got to see this live unspoiled.
I really enjoyed this Ep, even watching it on my phone on the bus, look forward to watching it on sky on the tv when i get home. I though this was a less grand affair opener than ‘Twentica’ but seeing as this is the first time since V/VI we’ve had back to back series i don’t think we needed one anyway, it opens with a nice scene that doesn’t go on too long before we get to the action, i loved that launch, music and all. I was a bit curious about how the Hitler thing would pan out, but seeing it through to the end i think it was done and explained well, some really funny lines in this too. I know the Rimmer lines anout ramps will be a topic, i think there nothing out of the ordinary for Rimmer, and the ending reminded me a bit of the ending of ‘Terrorform’ where not everything is back to before the episode started but it is a clear ending, even if there was alot happening in the last minute or so. What’s everyone think of the Titles? Slightly different this time, more gaps between names and one Red Dwarf/Starbug Hybrid shot at the beginning, some really good shots in there though
Overall, I liked it. NIGGLES: Starting the Starbug joke was a bit overcooked despite the pay off. And I couldn’t quite get behind the line “Silky as the day we got her.” I don’t know if it was the performance (not sincere enough?), the direction or the editing. Editing might have saved it. Performances generally were a bit shit in places. A bit. Chris Barrie’s delivery about the cure for evil was weak. And I had to rewind it to hear DJJ’s delivery of “You should try inhaling your socks sometimes.” “You make it sound like my old school.” Would have been ‘You make it sound like school’ in the 90s. Discuss. If you want to. The actual jam was awful. The Dueling Banjos from Deliverance might have worked better. Anything without vocals. It was definitely the wrong choice of song for me. What if Hitler and Lister were jamming, Deliverance style, and Hitler puts a bit of Horst-Wessel-Lied, or Deutschland Uber Alles in there. And Lister counters it with a very shit version of We’ll Meet Again. I’m riffing. The point is, I don’t know why they chose the Happy Wanderer. It didn’t add anything and was just a song and dance lol. And yeah, shame about the peril-free, all standing about at the end tricksy murdering. They didn’t show any fear. I miss the days of Running Away. Did anyone else think it was weird that Lister got out of the Castrating Laser Machine without being seen, and that he didn’t call out for anybody until shouting for Rimmer? The shouting was great. He should have done more of that. Everyone’s a critic, aren’t they. NIGGLES END.
Well I know what my earworm’s going to be for the next few days! Ryan Gage’s performance was hilarious, actually made me laugh out loud which I don’t often do when watching alone. Overall, I think I enjoyed this – I always find it a bit weird and unsettling to be watching new Red Dwarf and don’t always take it all in, so definitely need a rewatch. That bit with Kryten’s head on the pole will probably give me nightmares though!
Excellent captured well in the edit and enhanced to see the model shots telling the story, loved the little extra music on starbugs launch, like a trek movie, that really helps get over the “cant launch star bug” part of the plot. Krytens head gag is still there, i think it was better rendered than what we saw on the night. I think there was a bit more lingering on the “im not your friend hitler” sort of scene, or maybe that’s just cus i saw a couple of takes previously. Really laughing, love the faces in the early cards scene, which both works in stand alone but also pays off story relevant points. The american war on the world stuff, seems to have grown more worryingly back to truth since the recording night!! Dollar pound here we come.
The most worrying thing for me is that this still had the same ‘abrupt ending’ problem that plagued XI. This one was nearly as jarring as Officer Rimmer’s for me. I’m not really sure the twist ending will stand up to scrutiny, but that’s for a rewatch. Those were my only real two complaints; generally enjoyed the ep. Your not wrong, but the gun shot being quick and mercyless is story based and after that it’s a quick gag to end thats needed really. Its not quite strong enough to leave you on a high, but it is story and call back set up nicely, it’s just abrupt cus it’s not killer enough as a gag, even if the cat just shot someone as an ending! I can think of a better end yet though, unless it was a re do of star bug take off being fixed or something might have helped like that.
Great opening. Danny is starting to become the real star of the show. The ignition sequence was brilliant but Rimmer’s comments about ramps on RD almost crossed the line. I think it’s a case of Rimmer the bastard being exposed. So you might hate the idea that the show is showing a character mocking disability, but i think the point is Lister is being shown to be caring and rimmer is selfish and as you say crossing lines selfishly and all this is done to remind of character type so that it’s slightly more a surprise that The Cat is the pyscho, Rimmer actually has empathy but cowardly avoids helping others too much, while the cat doesnt have any, except that he has learned it from the crew.
(Writing my comments before reading everyone else’s. Just because.) So. That’ll do me. Plenty of laughs here. First LOL just for that XII at the start. I’m always worried about potentially not liking something I’ve been so looking forward to, but this was a great opener. Seeing the cockpit scene from the trailer in its full form – love the majestic music behind it. Yes, some lovely stuff in there, a good few chuckles, slightly sudden ending, but worth the wait. A solid 7/10 from me, possibly rising to an 8 if it holds up to repeat viewings.
Good ep, I thought! I was worried it was going to lose me after a strong start as I got a bit bored during the dinner scene, but the ‘selfie’ joke was executed so well that I was back on board. I laughed out loud probably 4-5 times throughout and the drama was good, the only niggles I had were that fire doesn’t pose any threat to a hard light hologram as far as we’re aware and it seemed a bit out of character for Cat to not be interested in a potentially dangerous mate as it’s never stopped him before… but this ep had some of the best character development we’ve seen for the Cat so I can let that slide. I did expect another scene before it ended but I thought they rounded it off nicely with the ‘pokey face’ back-reference so I think it works. Definitely didn’t strike me as abrupt, possibly because the music started over the end of the scene rather than it immediately cutting away. Probably not an all-time classic or anything but an encouraging opener. As good as some of the better mid-level episodes, I’d say.
Oh and I won’t know until I see the episodes but I hope the opening sequence doesn’t turn out to be too spoilery…. the effect of Lister transforming back from his older self LOOKED fantastic so I can understand why it’s there, but I’d have preferred to have seen it in context first.
The episode was about the same as XI for me, there were moments I was quite enjoying and there were moments that went on abit long or I felt were a mistep. While I didn’t believe for a second the cat would switch sides I did feel the back and forth of switching sides got abit silly. The duet I get the sense worked better for the studio audience. One of my issues was with how camp hitler was but I think that was explained at the end (I think)
I didn’t find Cat’s back-and-fourth silly. I thought it was predictable and they leaned into that by doing those jumps quickly and then the tie-back to the poker scene justified it, in my opinion at least.
DJJ has been the consistent highlight of the Dave era full stop. Honestly I think the cat has has some of the best gags in the entire history of the show even if they were quick fire they are often very memorable. Which i find weird when some have made out that the cat has been Underused in previous years. Doug has definitely put more on the cat in recent series which I’d call for better and for worse since Cats portrayal often seems almost born yesterday at times and he is learning things that the crew don’t know what to expect with him ect ect. A long running gag seems to be lister arguing with the cats morals or questioning his logic to give the cat further decreasing woofers rather than just getting the biggest woofer out and moving on.
Opening titles: – Starbug flying out of Red Dwarf; was a bit odd not having Dwarf itself in the first shot of the XI titles, so this is a nice compromise. – Lister and Cat blinking into existence in Corridor 298/35 – Kryten and Rimmer flailing about in the science room, from the trailer – Starbug taking off from the landing pad, from “Cured” – Panic in the Starbug cockpit – Mechat breaking his own thumb from “Siliconia” – Chris Barrie’s credit screen, from “Cured” – Lister and Kryten lifting up the hatch to the water tank, again from “Cured” – Lister mid-Hitler jam, yet again from “Cured” – Starbug approaching the space station, the fourth shot in a row from “Cured” – Lister, Kryten and Rimmer in the science room, all looking as if they’re shouting at someone not to do something (presumably the Cat?) – Craig’s credit screen with Lister transforming back from old to young, from “M-Corp” – Rimmer on the gas moon from the trailer, carrying something very small in his hands (possibly from “Skipper”?) – Cat shining Lister’s shoes – Starbug being beamed aboard giant spaceship from trailer – Mop fight, from “Siliconia” – Lister aggressively miming brushing his teeth – Rimmer, Kryten and Cat teleporting, from “M-Corp” – Starbug speeding across a moon – Danny’s credit screen, featuring Cat twirling around in the bunkroom – Blofeld Rimmer (I thought this might be from “Cured” but it obviously isn’t, so maybe “Skipper”?) – The most intriguing shot of the sequence: the bunkroom in red lighting, with Kryten, Lister and Cat in big cloaks and Rimmer lying before them like he’s about to be sacrificed. “Skipper” again, possibly? – Rimmer’s light bee getting switched off, from “Cured” – Robert’s credit screen: he cleans a security camera, from its POV. I think you can see Skutters in this shot. – Cat spraying Lister with water – Rimmer winking out of existence as a fireball blasts towards him. It looks suspiciously like a radiation leak. This must be from “Skipper”. One thing worth noting: this is the first Dave era title sequence that doesn’t have a group shot of all four regulars as the last shot before the logo (well, X had an extra shot of Lister inbetween, but close enough).
I didn’t find Cat’s back-and-fourth silly. I thought it was predictable and they leaned into that by doing those jumps quickly and then the tie-back to the poker scene justified it, in my opinion at least. its one of those things where yeah it predictable and you are waiting for the pay off but the pay off is taking its time because of the back and forth that you ain’t buying for a moment.
Opening titles: – Cat shining Lister’s shoes He looks to be shining above his shoes to me, so that could be a clue as to which episode this is from.
I quite enjoyed it. The Starbug start-up sequence got the biggest laugh for me, and was one of those jokes that actually did get better the more it ran on (as opposed to the drawn-out gags that get less funny as they go on, which I know has been a criticism of the more recent episodes). The music helped too. Hitler was good throughout as well – I particularly enjoyed the tea-tray/salute gag, and the lighter bit. Plot-wise, I think the only really unexpected bit was the reveal that the historical figures were droids. (The line about Hitler not looking like Hitler was a fun way of addressing the obvious lack of likeness too – I wonder if that was thrown in at short notice.) The twist involving the real villain at the end was something you could see coming almost as soon as he appeared. I do wonder whether there could have been a bit more discussion of the quandary of whether to leave the ‘cured’ behind to die, but at the same time it probably wouldn’t really have gone anywhere (or been very funny). Character bits were pretty good I thought. I felt like Rimmer’s comments about renovating Red Dwarf to deal with a wheelchair were totally in-character, and I liked the callback to Lister’s art-school roots. The psychopath-test bit was interesting – I initially thought they were going to get four readouts showing that each of the Red Dwarf crew were psychopaths in their own way (and so counter the idea that ‘evil’ is an easily-identifiable thing that can be turned off like that), but the way it worked out was fine. Although I don’t think anyone really bought that Cat was going to turn on the rest of them, did they? One or two intriguing moments in the title sequence too. Overall, a good start to the series.
Very good. A bit too echoey of Quarantine (brushing dust away from nameplates to bigger and bigger laughs) and Meltdown (famous historical faces as droids), but I suppose there’s only so many peril-of-the-week situations you can come up with over 30 years, so I’ll let it go. Some solid laughs from me, a wonderful final scene tie-in back to the first scene. I still enjoy the lame jokes that you know are coming (who’s the psychopath going to be? Haha, guess what, not the actual psychopath!), because they’re delivered in such a good way. (Rimmer being trapped: “nothing worse than being buried alive, what could possibly be worse than this? *cue a thing that is much worse*) A minor niggle towards the end, is where Kryten reached for the second test results sheet and started speaking his line before the noise of the printer kicked in. Overall, I’m happy with this as a first episode and I’m excited for the rest. XI and XII feel much slicker than X, I must say. As X unfolded, I felt a bit sad for it. But these latest two series are (and seem to be) a solid return to form. Yay!
I really enjoyed that. A little broad perhaps, and maybe not quite as refined in dialogue as it could have been but that doesn’t bring it down too much for me. Really solid jokes at the start, loved the poker scene (despite seeing it yesterday) and the Starbug start up sequence – plus that model shot was amazing, shame it couldn’t have been used in XI too. Best bit for me though was Lister playing guitar with Hitler. At one point I thought they were going to over egg the joke but I thought it was perfect and almost in tears as I suppressed laughter in the office. The reveal I saw coming a mile off … as I’m sure most did. But loved the Cat switching back and forth. I think the only thing missing that would have made Cat’s final actions better (not that I’m against what happened really, thought it was funny just how quickly he shot him, without a thought) would have been the Cat hinting at that being his plan all along and that he’d do anything for the boys from the Dwarf. Really solidify the relationship. Even if he does come across as selfish and uncaring, they are his friends/family. I think the Doug was obviously going for a typical Cat like joke to end the episode on, but I’d have prefered something like the above. I don’t get the sense of it being an abrupt ending at all, not like Samsara or Officer Rimmer. It was given a little time to breath, with a nice joke to end on and the Cat walking off. Abrupt would have been the dude hitting the floor dead and credits rolling. This was fine. Not quite sure what they’re going for with the XII logo starting off as IIII but it’s a cool little animation that brings something new to the show. Really looking forward to the discussion and Dwarfcast over the next week
Rimmer being trapped: “nothing worse than being buried alive, what could possibly be worse than this I thought the fact that he was dead, and not alive, might get a mention.
I’ve seen a few people draw the Meltdown comparison, but for me it felt as much reminiscent of Out Of Time (in terms of the distaste they had for spending time in the presence of vile historical figures) – particularly the dinner-party scene.
Not quite sure what they’re going for with the XII logo starting off as IIII Presumably a nod to the fact that this is the fourth Dave series but the twelfth in total.
Well, I thought that was great fun. Solid concept, the story was worked out nicely, some great laugh out loud gags (in particular the guitar jam and the selfie were fantastic, and Starbug’s left-turn only landing was absurdly lovely). Good comedy throughout really, loved Rimmer’s utter intolerance of disability access, very in-character. Craig seemed to bring a lot more energy to episode, and Danny was absolutely knocking it of the park. The guest cast were all well cast too. It avoided the ‘sudden ending’ pitfall of so many XI episodes – this wrap-up was no quicker than ‘The Inquisitor’ or ‘Gunmen’, it worked perfectly well. I’ve no beef with the Cat killing someone in cold blood either – he’s a cat, and Lister’s outrage was all the ethical comment the scene needed in my mind. Gripes – still some elements of overly broad performance i think, but that felt more to do with the guest cast. Plus some almost-fluffed line delivery sneaking in here and there…. but otherwise, that was a damned good episode. A really solid start to XII, can’t wait for more!
Rimmer being trapped: “nothing worse than being buried alive, what could possibly be worse than this I thought the fact that he was dead, and not alive, might get a mention. Yeah, you’d think so, eh! I can forgive them for it though.
>the only thing missing that would have made Cat’s final actions better […] would have been the Cat hinting […] that he’d do anything for the boys from the Dwarf. Really solidify the relationship. Even if he does come across as selfish and uncaring, they are his friends/family. Would have been good, that.
I suppose everyone has a line where jokes cease being funny and become offensive. The “ramps” quote will, I’m sure, cross over some people’s lines. That’s not a criticism, I hasten to add, just an observation. There are plenty more lines that RD has crossed over the years. I’m just acknowledging that some will laugh at that joke…. and some will turn off. Aside from concepts of humour…. how do the Skutters get about?
The IIII turning into XII is really bugging me too and would welcome more theories on an explanation? Anyone else notice Rimmer’s laboured delivery of the “Starbug’s thruster” line? I’m surprised there wasn’t a better version to use in the edit as they filmed scenes several times? Something else I noticed… The smeg up on the series XI DVD when Chris forgets to lean is actually from this episode!
I suppose everyone has a line where jokes cease being funny and become offensive. The “ramps” quote will, I’m sure, cross over some people’s lines. That’s not a criticism, I hasten to add, just an observation. There are plenty more lines that RD has crossed over the years. I’m just acknowledging that some will laugh at that joke…. and some will turn off. Aside from concepts of humour…. how do the Skutters get about? As a former wheelchair user, I had no beef with it – it felt very in-character for Rimmer, to be annoyed at a concession made for others!
The IIII turning into XII is really bugging me too and would welcome more theories on an explanation? If you don’t buy the idea that the IIII is a ‘4’ to refer to it being the fourth Dave series, then I don’t know… maybe the IIII is meant to be an abstract depiction of the Red Dwarf crew?
Using Poker as a plot device? I found this a bit weak to be fair. They never played or talked about Poker in 30 years?! Having moved on from this I did like the Starbug start up, again as a device, this worked well later in the show. Did anyone else think Starbug model looked a little thin at the front end? After years of the Cat playing the straight man to a dead man he’s finally getting some quality lines! Guest cast excellent. Overall a good start.
As a former wheelchair user, I had no beef with it – it felt very in-character for Rimmer, to be annoyed at a concession made for others! That is a fair point. Less a joke and more a character aspect.
I thought the IIII to XII was just all the lines jumping up and the first two falling in on themselves, all funny, like. Didn’t get into deeper meanings. Just chuckled at it.
Another note about the logo is that the way the ‘XII’ is formed means it looks slightly different to the logo on all the merchandise…
how come Rimmer didn’t want to spend any time with Hitler? you’d think that since Rimmer buys Fascist Dictator Monthly, he’d be quite pleased at the prospect of hanging out with him
A better first episode of a series for me, but still a little hit and miss. Abrupt endings are explainable when it’s a jam packed episode but when you have 2 minutes of Lister and Hitler doing their best Status Quo impression then I don’t believe you couldn’t have cut that down a bit so you could have them walk off. My usual gripe about Red Dwarf in the Dave era is its refusal to add any meaningful continuity, it’s pretty much a restart at the end of the episode, so again, what happened to the mechs? Leave them to get obliterated? Stick them on Red Dwarf, nobody is asking to see them every week, but makes the crew seem less like dicks, they should all have got psychopath readings based on that level of compassion haha The Starbug turning left gag was alright if a little hammed up, the moon Base was good, but the little Starbug was a bit simplistic. A few laboured deliveries as others have mentioned, the Starbugs thruster line, and Craig was a bit Corrie in the bunk room, but overall good performances, especially Danny. Liked Hitler’s arm band. Best gag of the show. In conclusion, very solid, tone is a bit uneven. 7/10
Enjoyable episode and a good, solid start to a new series. I like the fact that Hitler Looking nothing like Hitler was Directly addressed. some stunning effects shots also that felt very Dwarfy, fantastic to see the landing bay again. i also enjoyed the Cat having more to do again, although that does seem to be more common in Dave Era Dwarf. only watched it the once but the scene in Starbug’s cockpit straight after the Guitar Jam …to me it seems most if not all of Rimmer’s Dialogue was ADR ?
Watched the ep this morning before work. I’ve just got home so I thought I’d post my initial thoughts from first watch. I kind of don’t know what to make of it. I don’t think it was as strong a series opener than Trojan or Twentica. I think this one will grow on me. I don’t mean this to sound as negative as it may come out sounding. I definitely want to go back and re-watch it. It has some strong ideas and concepts that I find interesting and want to revisit. It’s just there were some moments that felt a bit too broad and cartoon-y to me (booting up Starbug at the beginning and the leanings that followed, and I wasn’t fond of the silly walks by the droids at the end). There weren’t really any moments that brought a proper laugh out of me. And by the end, I had the same reaction I had during first viewings of most XI episodes: I was surprised once the credits started rolling. I didn’t expect it to end there. I kind of assumed there’d be one more scene on Starbug as they set off back to Red Dwarf.
Nah. Rimmer is a dick who admires fascist control and militarism but he’s not a racist and he’s got no love of people who pal around with Hitler. “Better dead than smeg” to quote the man himself. how come Rimmer didn’t want to spend any time with Hitler? you’d think that since Rimmer buys Fascist Dictator Monthly, he’d be quite pleased at the prospect of hanging out with him
I though Cured was great. The kind of big sci-fi and psychological concept that would have fitted nicely into III-VI. Big and fun and silly one minute, then infused with some genuinely unsettling moral questions and a proper sense of peril the next. Felt it was much stronger than Twentica.
Ha! I really enjoyed that. Laughed plenty of times, enjoyed the concepts and story. I probably enjoyed it all the more because I avoided any spoilers apart from the trailer, since I felt that knowing too much about Twentica meant that I didn’t enjoy it as much as I could’ve done at the time (I enjoyed more when I rewatched it recently). I think I’m really going to enjoy XII. >Aside from concepts of humour…. how do the Skutters get about? Obligatory Dalek clip. Or maybe they also have legs like the Blue Midgets do?
Using Poker as a plot device? I found this a bit weak to be fair. They never played or talked about Poker in 30 years?! I can think of a few instances: Lister rigging the poker cards in Bodyswap; that bit in Holoship where they talk about having all-night poker sessions; the scene where they’re playing in the Texas School Book Depository. Oh, and that deleted scene where they’re playing strip poker. I really liked the pokey face line, and the fact that it tied nicely into the opening scene. By the way, the IIII turning into XII… does anyone else think it looks like the logo needs to go pee?
I originally saw Cured at the Premier but just caught it again (twice) on UKTV Play. I really enjoy it, it’s a really fun episode. Ryan Gage is brilliant camping it up as Hitler. It’s so creepy yet charming, I didn’t know if I could trust him. He is so ridiculous yet I felt so sorry for him when Lister said he couldn’t jam with him. It’s a shame the other guest stars are not given much time to do much, but if that meant we got more time with Gage then I’m totally fine with that. Did anyone else feel like the ad break was in the wrong place? I felt like it kinda ruined the brilliant selfie gag. IMO it should have gone after the crew were captured. (Not sure if there would’ve been a time issue with that). Unfortunately, I felt the escape from each situation was massively rushed and it made me wonder whether we needed to put the crew in that position in the first place (although it did lead to the brilliant gag with the A. Hitler lighter). Seen some people saying they didn’t like the Cat switching sides gag, but it made me laugh. I predicted what would happen but it doesn’t bother me, and it ties back nicely to the Pokey Face at the start. I’m so glad Cat is not being forgotten in the Dave era. I definitely don’t feel like the ending is rushed. It works for me. I don’t really need to see the crew boarding Starbug and flying off, I know the ship is fixed and they have plenty of time to escape so I don’t need to see it, there’s no drama there. It was a much stronger ending than 66.6% of Series XI. Overall, great fun!!
Did anyone else feel like the ad break was in the wrong place? I felt like it kinda ruined the brilliant selfie gag. IMO it should have gone after the crew were captured. (Not sure if there would’ve been a time issue with that). I thought that was the best ad break on an ep made for Dave so far – ends on a huge laugh, and the episode is in a very different mood when it returns as the crew begin to question whether or not they can trust the evils. It’ll be interesting to see how the version without the ad bumpers on the DVD works, actually…
I liked the Cat switching sides and ultimately saving the day because it returns him to being quite cool instead of the complete idiot he’s been recently.
It feels like in order to keep things fresh doug has to hit a HUGE reset button just so you can capture alot of lost years of material Rob and Doug were always so ahead of themselves with the show that the cat evolved from S1,2 to 3 fairly quick.
I felt the escape from each situation was massively rushed Especially Lister. The build-up of peril slightly undermined by swiftness of escape.
I liked the Cat switching sides and ultimately saving the day because it returns him to being quite cool instead of the complete idiot he’s been recently. I kinda agree but i will say maybe 1 less back and forth could have helped abit since if you believe the cat had a plan up his sleeve then its good but when he goes back,forth,back,forth and back again before actually doing something it just makes it seem more like naivety before deciding what he wanted to do. The stuff with the cat and the lady guest star was IMO very much the cat.
Yeah but you know they’re going to escape so why waste 60 seconds of screen time of each of them struggling to get free? For me, those scenes were more about the amusing visuals of their predicaments (especially Lister and Kryten’s impaled head for a big laugh from me) rather than the peril. I mean, I know it was badly done but compare this to that scene where they’re getting crushed by the spikes in X and Lister has that over-long exposition with Pree to get them out of it which sucked all of the drama out of the scene.
Regarding the Cat, I was reminded of the podcast discussion on G&T after G&T (if that’s not too confusing…) where they were dissecting Cat’s reaction to Lister’s appeal for his kidney. The theory was that Cat was upset because he wanted to help but he knew that his selfish nature wouldn’t let him…. and so, maybe I’m reading something that wasn’t there, but when I was watching that scene with Cat switching sides I had it in my mind that he probably had that internal conflict going on then, too. In any case, I think that scene was handled really well. I know it’s personal opinion and all that but I wouldn’t have changed anything.
Looking at the episode Skipper i am getting feelings that they might have spoilt abit of the ending in the opening credits. You can almost predict what the idea is there. My prediction is that Rimmer will either intentionally or unintentionally mess up the drive plates again coursing the same accident once again killing the crew. I admire Dougs ambition for these stories but my fear is that such ambitious may be abit heavy for doug to carry in a 30 minute story and with all the extra padding doug likes to put in modern dwarf.
What a strange mix of good and shit – some uproarious laughter, some real “puff air out of your nose in appreciation” moments, and one big sort of HAAHHH. But then a couple groanworthy jokes. One terrific guest performance (the professor) and some shit ones (most of the evils, especially Hitler – god Hitler was dreadful.) Overall, I laughed a lot and I thought the plot was outstanding – there was some real tension – but there are a couple shit jokes, Hitler dragged it down and some of the direction was a bit meh. Weaker than Series XI as a whole, here’s hoping XII gets better.
I didn’t really like Hitler as camp as he was, either, mostly because it distracted me since it didn’t really make sense at the time. “…. it’s because I’m Hitler, isn’t it?” was my favourite line of the episode, though.
Don’t have much to say about that one, to be honest. It wasn’t bad,but neither was it particularly good. The setup was interesting enough, but the story never really went anywhere. The professor was poorly written (the less said about his “plan” the better) and was seemingly just there to provide an in and an exit from the story. I guess this will be remembered as “the one with Hitler”, but I’m wondering whether I’ll remember it at all. A couple of nice bits and one good guest sta but a severe lack of comedy gold and a fairly static story. Forgettable.
Yeah, some of Hitler’s lines were hilarious (it’s because I’m Hitler getting a huge laugh), but some of his stuff was just atrocious. The performances really are very broad these days, but sometimes they still knock it out of the park with their delivery.
Well, that was great fun and had me laughing most of the way through. Little niggles: Hasn’t campy Hitler been done to death by now? Would have liked to have seen Hitler just as a really likeable ‘nice guy’ rather than that pantomime performance. Musical duet … left me cold. Think this might be a marmite joke, love it or hate it. Just seemed like padding to me, but others clearly loved it. There was a one-liner about 70’s Leeds football team? I have NO idea what that references. I really was waiting for Rimmer to be a psychopath too. I almost feel cheated that he wasn’t, before going on to the ‘reveal’ of it being the scientist. But generally that was a top notch episode and I’m really looking forward to the rest of the series. High expecations now!
>Think this might be a marmite joke, love it or hate it. I neither loved nor hated it; I thought it was mildly amusing but dragged on for too long
The one liner about Leeds/football reminds me of that other one liner about Leeds/football we got in Series VII – I assume it’s some Liverpool thing and English football fans (of which I am neither) will probably find it funnier than I did (as it got no reaction from me whatsoever)
Instantly gone into my favourite Dave episodes by the way. I think only Trojan, Lemons, The Beginning and Krysis come close for gut ‘fuck yeah, this is Red Dwarf!’ impact. Still think the audience laughter is mixed far too low, creating a situation where I’m pondering whether I’d be bothered if they got rid of the audience altogether. Other than that – the slickest, most finessed, most BBC2 like Dwarf episode of the whole comeback so far. That would have been a highlight of V, never mind XII. This is all going very well so far after the wobbles I had with XI!
Oh, and because Daniel Barker wasn’t in this one he’s buggered up all my number crunching. I will insist on continuing when he returns even if you beg me not to.
It was a decent episode I think. Not the best, but I certainly liked it. The Hitler bits and the jokes about Starbug’s decrepitness were good. My main complaints are how rushed the escape/rescue scene felt and the Professor’s motivation for trusting Cat. I can’t really see why he would trust Cat enough to give him a working gun. However, I did like how the Professor was linked to the backstory around United America. Small points: – Hitler’s armband was a nice detail. – The new logo is a polymorph. – I feel like Doug must have watched the Damned United recently with the 70s Leeds United joke, although he does seem to like making jokes about Leeds since they were mentioned in VII. – I can’t be the only person that immediately thought of the Meltdown smeg up when Rimmer used Hitler’s lighter.
Still think the audience laughter is mixed far too low, creating a situation where I’m pondering whether I’d be bothered if they got rid of the audience altogether. Might this be an artefact of the on-demand version being downmixed to stereo, or do you find this on the proper version as well? The audience track seems to be prominent in the rear surround channels on the TV/DVD version – do they perhaps get lost without those channels? Either way, I prefer the slightly more low-key laughter of this to, say, the much louder and much more over-the-top laughter of The Big Bang Theory and its ilk. Top notch episode, I felt. I thought Hitler was marvellously played, and the two-liner “That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is mine! / Oh, no, it is mine” made me laugh over and over. Cat had some great lines (“I can’t believe they didn’t say handsome!”), and Lister and Rimmer felt pretty much as Lister and Rimmer, even down to Rimmer’s repulsion to the ‘Boys from the Dwarf’ gesture as discussed from the trailer. Definitely will be watching again imminently and looking forward to hearing G&T’s thoughts in the DwarfCast…
– I can’t be the only person that immediately thought of the Meltdown smeg up when Rimmer used Hitler’s lighter. You weren’t. As soon as I heard the tapping on wood, my mind said “Stone!”
Honestly i think Hitler would have been funnier less camp because when something is more subtle i find its usually funnier then something thats trying to hard to be funny.
On the whole I enjoyed it. I didn’t think it was as strong an opener as Trojan and the guest cast weren’t quite in the same league as Twentica but there was a lot to enjoy and it stands up to repeated viewings. The Rupert Murdoch joke and Kryten’s head on a mop made me laugh out loud as did the sign language section. Cat being a psychopath surprised me though Telford being the baddie didn’t. Danny was great throughout. I liked that the beginning was relevant to the end even if you could see it coming. There were a couple of niggles, Chris’s delivery of “in a bunker” was a bit weak though the “died golfing” line was good. Messalina didn’t quite work for me but I’m not sure why, I think it was the eye rolling. Did anyone else think she was going to try to chat up Rimmer after saying Cat didn’t ping her bell? I’m glad they didn’t go down that route though. All in a all a good start rather than a great one and I look forward to the rest of the series.
Might this be an artefact of the on-demand version being downmixed to stereo, or do you find this on the proper version as well? The audience track seems to be prominent in the rear surround channels on the TV/DVD version – do they perhaps get lost without those channels? Either way, I prefer the slightly more low-key laughter of this to, say, the much louder and much more over-the-top laughter of The Big Bang Theory and its ilk. The sound mix on X is absolutely bob-on to me. A good audience sitcom sound mix should sound like you’re sat on the front row, even if it’s raucous and crashing the dialogue – the recent Dwarf series sound like there’s an acoustically dead partition between the two sources (I kind of get why – it’s the audio equivalent of the harsh drama/film colour grade and something they’re deliberately going for but I think it’s a mistake and hurts the warmth that the show lives on). If I had the ability to rip Bluray it’d doubtless be possible to fix it by adjusting the levels if the 5.1 prior to downmixing, as it’s literally just a volume thing. I think TBBT is mixed well to be honest.
It was all well and good enough but everybody seems to be overlooking the fact that LISTER ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GUITAR PROPERLY.
Starbug churns left. Honestly i think Hitler would have been funnier less camp because when something is more subtle i find its usually funnier then something thats trying to hard to be funny. That moustache, grin and voice had a Freddie Mercury edge to it that I enjoyed.
It was all well and good enough but everybody seems to be overlooking the fact that LISTER ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GUITAR PROPERLY. He’s had a while to learn since we last saw him play one, plus it was hardly Django Reinhardt.
I was going to say clearly Lister has gotten better at playing guitar! Possibly during the unseen years between VIII and BtE where not a lot happened he actually learnt to play and got good at it?
Which set report does cured relate to? Any chance you could add a set report link to the banner on the main page each week?
He’s had a while to learn since we last saw him play one, plus it was hardly Django Reinhardt. Yeah – he’s no longer Psirens-level bad, but in no way was Lister’s playing good! I’m a pretty poor guitarist and I can play waaaaay better than that. I can believe that Lister has progressed from abysmal to just-plain-bad in the years since series VI. The fancy shredding seemed to be coming from Hitler (that’s a sentence I never expected to type!).
Couple of thoughts: 1. I was expecting them to lean on the German origins of The Happy Wanderer while singing it. Something like having them singing it together in English and having Hitler gradually switch to loud German lyrics that drown out Lister. Wonder if something like that was the original idea behind that song choice. 2. I too am a little uncomfortable with how casually the show has treated killing human characters the last couple of seasons, in this case going so far as to have the Cat shoot someone in the face. Would have preferred a slightly cleverer ending involving the Cats poker face. Something like this perhaps: Telford asks Cat to come with him and show him how to start Starbug, initially scene plays out as we saw but when he offers the Cat anything he just says “sorry buds” and leaves with Telford. Cut to Starbugs cockpit and we get a re-enactment of the convoluted Starbug startup sequence with Telford now sitting in Listers seat with Cat alongside him offering instructions. The whole process is recreated the same and at the last step the Cat directs Telford to a big red start button. Telford hits the button and is promptly blown out of Starbug by the ejection seat that Cat actually tricked him into activating. Cat appears on a communications screen and gives his poker face line to the others before telling them to hurry up and get on board. The crew turn to the droids and ask them to come with them, but they decline, saying that in the last couple of days spent with them they have decided that the Red Dwarf crew are far too immoral and judgemental for it to work.
As soon as the twist happened I REALLY wanted Professor Telford to turn out to be the real Hitler. Wouldn’t have made a shit of sense but since when has that stopped anything in Dwarf? That would have made the episode a million times more interesting for me. Otherwise…. Not one I’m particularly taken with, on first impressions… Yeah some of it’s funny (‘it’s because I’m Hiter, isn’t it’ I mean…you’ve gotta laugh at that, come on!), but the whole ‘atmosphere’ was a little off for me, and it didn’t quite get there. Some weird stuff going on here, actually. Like, as has already been mentioned, that odd Rimmer line edit of ‘maybe we can finally fix Starbug’s thruster’ which you can tell has had the line chopped up, for some reason. Also there were a ton of beats that either didn’t get a laugh when they should or were missing a MUCH better line in order to get a laugh (like when Rimmer comes out of the waste chute, it would have been so much better if, after he’d been screaming and all that, he was all ‘what’s the problem?’ playing it cool.) All the Starbug scenes being the same now is also bugging me somewhat. I wish they could find SOME other way of doing them without it being Kryten in exposition mode for 2 minutes. Yeah, in a 30 minute sitcom, with three sets and a small(ish) budget, you’ve got to accept most of your story has to be filled in with someone laying it all out in that way, but still… Something amusing to note is the fact you can see the shadow of Bobby’s head in the scene where Kryten is headless. :D I’m guessing they thought ‘what the hell’ and didn’t bother to do anything about it on the day. That aside, it’s a pretty awesome effect!! Conclusion: Undecided. Score: 2.5/5 (for now…)
I LIKED IT, IT WAS GOOD. Production values are through the roof, everything looked fantastic. Enjoyed the storyline, felt very V-ish. Performances were good, Danny on form again. Felt a bit queasy at sympathetic Hitler but, in a classic Dwarf-y fudge, he turned out to be a droid based on some random bloke – so I suppose it’s fine. Solid start to the series – roll on next ep.
I like the way the droids only make mechanical droid-noises while walking once the plot requires them to.
Surprised nobody’s mentioned “Ainsley” yet. Dax: have you seriously just invented what you think the plot of Skipper is going to be and then criticised Doug for it? Bloody hell, it’s like when your partner has a dream you’ve cheated on them then wakes up angry at you for it.
I enjoyed that more than I did most of XI to be honest. Definite series V/VI vibes, Danny isn’t shouting most of his lines, and apart from Craig’s accent the acting was pretty much spot on, the pacing was good and I laughed out loud a fair few times. I’m putting this down to it being recorded right after XI so the cast were more relaxed and comfortable in their roles so it flowed better and showed on screen. Sets looked great too I forgot to add. Not 100% sold on the Starbug midsection but it may grow on me like the new cockpit has. If this is the standard of XII then I’m very happy and excited to see what’s to come.
Given the ‘Starbug thruster not working’ thing, which wouldn’t make sense if it was preceded in broadcast order by any other XII episode featuring Starbug, and another thing I can’t get into because it pertains to the one I was in the audience for – was this one always intended to go out first, even at time of recording?
There was a one-liner about 70’s Leeds football team? I have NO idea what that references. I think this one was down to Craig. He’s a Leeds fan, or was when he was younger. The same line as it’s like playing away at Leeds! The term also comes from dirty Leeds, as they were naughty football tackles in games in the 70’s
Using Poker as a plot device? I found this a bit weak to be fair. They never played or talked about Poker in 30 years?! I can think of a few instances: Lister rigging the poker cards in Bodyswap; that bit in Holoship where they talk about having all-night poker sessions; the scene where they’re playing in the Texas School Book Depository. Oh, and that deleted scene where they’re playing strip poker. I really liked the pokey face line, and the fact that it tied nicely into the opening scene. Exactly my point. Everyone knows they played Poke face, so it just didn’t work for me.
The IIII turning into XII is really bugging me too and would welcome more theories on an explanation? I took the four lines to be representative of the 4 main cast. Then rimmer crosses the line again. ;-)
The four lines thing was jarring upon first viewing but I might get used to it….. more or less offensive than the chalk-board style on 8? I’m surprised anyone has issues with the killing of the professor, to be honest. I’ve totally understood those complaints, previously, but he WAS about to murder them. If anything, the issue I’d take is how much more populated the universe now seems but I can let that slide so long as the stories make good use of it (which this ep did much better than, say, Lister stuck on hold for half an hour…)
>I think this one was down to Craig. He’s a Leeds fan, or was when he was younger. Craig is a Liverpool fan. The Leeds 70s team are part of the film The Damned United so will be pretty well known by a general audience. Lister clearly watched that film too.
Solid ep! Can’t say I didn’t see the twist coming a little – as you know they’re not going to do the obvious twist of just having the historical monsters turn out to be NOT cured after all – but it was definitely an enjoyable ride. I especially liked the Cat here. This somehow ended up being a better episode for him than Can of Worms! Despite the psychopath diagnosis, it’s clear that he does care about the others deep down… at least a bit. The Psycho Scan likely wasn’t built to work on a species so naturally self-absorbed. Random thoughts: – I think actually “curing” people like Hitler of evil would cause them to be completely consumed by their own guilt, not just cause them to be cheery and pleasant. In fact, it’s arguable this comes off just as psychopathic! It could be that this is a clue to the reveal, but it’s obviously just that going for that angle wouldn’t be funny. – Messalina seems like really small fry evil compared to the others, especially Stalin and Hitler. Maybe they felt that at least one of them had to be a woman? – I know people are divided about the Lister/Hitler jamming, but the sheer weirdness of the scene, as well as the scenes building up to and following it, made it work for me. – I’m glad they were revealed to be robots, because the idea of the evil gene being real, or history’s worst atrocities being explicitly linked to a lack of empathy for anyone, rather than a lack of empathy for *specifically targeted minorities*, would lead to a troubling overall message. (Yes, yes, “just a comedy” etc.) Perhaps politics wouldn’t be in such a dire state if we were able to confront the reality that murderous bigotry is normal human behaviour (not exclusive to the worst of the worst), and that it needs to be called out and directly squashed whenever it surfaces, rather than excused or pandered to. … anyway, roll on next week!
It got better as it went on. At this point the character-based gags (slob / vain / git / ironing) are so very, very worn that they barely register. Pretty sure they could be auto-filled by an Excel spreadsheet. Thought Ryan was great and got the biggest laughs, but I might be biased because HE IS MY FRIEND WHO I KNOW. Performances were generally good. Many have said too broad, but I thought I detected a bit less ham that X and XI…feels like they’ve calmed down a bit, maybe a beneficial effect of back-to-back series. I know I’m in the minority, but I thought the SFX had taken a bit of a dip. Though they felt in keeping with III – V era. Over all, it gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Or that might have been the Diazepam.
Ah, right. I didn’t know the Happy Wanderer had German origins. Did everyone else know that? Fuck. I still think it was the wrong song. Leeds’ firm in the 70s had some of the worst football hooligans of all time. I seem to remember learning this in a school assembly. I was surprised to learn in the Stoke Me A Clipper DwarfCast that Craig was a fan. Because of the racisms.
I wasn’t familiar with the song. Rolled my eyes a little at first but they managed to get a few laughs out of me before it finished so, ya know.
They did have issues getting the rights to a song. When companies heard it would be Hitler singing them, they refused to allow it. There may have been 101 other songs they intended to use first. The song doesn’t really bother me though, I think it works 🙂
>Thought Ryan was great and got the biggest laughs, but I might be biased because HE IS MY FRIEND WHO I KNOW. The audience on the night loved him, I can tell you that much. That “Oh no, but it is mine” line had to – for some reason, I forget why – be retaken about five or six times, and on EVERY SINGLE TAKE he did a slightly different inflection and got a massive laugh.
>I think this one was down to Craig. He’s a Leeds fan, or was when he was younger. Craig is a Liverpool fan. The Leeds 70s team are part of the film The Damned United so will be pretty well known by a general audience. Lister clearly watched that film too. Both his brothers were Liverpool fans when he was younger, so he decided to be a Leeds fan. This was on the life story program.
Solid opener. Probably a close third out of the last three series openers behind Trojan and Twentica. The Starbug landing gag was wonderful. When was the last time we got a model shot in on a joke? The whole launch sequence almost made Starbug feel like a character of it’s own – flaws, charms and all. Again, when has that happened with a ship last? Besides the dancing Blue Midgets. I really enjoyed Cured Hitler, for some reason he reminded me just a tiny bit of the translator guy from The Black Adder’s “The Queen of Spain’s Beard” (who I just found out was played by Jim Broadbent – you learn something new every day). Maybe the accent, I dunno. The teeth (plus accent) also reminded me of a one-line character from latter-day Simpsons so I’m not even gonna bother with that one. After the Hitler/Lister and Messalina/Cat scenes I was hoping we’d get some more pairings with Vlad and Stalin but sadly no. We at least got that impaling joke later on but nothing with Stalin, which was a bit of a missed opportunity but I guess there’s only so many scenes you can fit into 30 minutes. The ending was good enough I thought, however after the Professor was shot I was thinking the credits would roll after every line from then on. XI has made me paranoid about sudden endings, in fact it seems like it’s made all of us all a bit jaded. I should probably just stop worrying about it. It’s also really interesting to watch a series opener without much of the anxiety that comes with the first new episode in X years. It obviously felt like an extension of XI, but I thought it managed to stand on it’s own a bit. Maybe it was the lighting in the space station scenes? We’ll see how it plays out over the next five weeks. While watching I thought to myself that if I was laughing and having a good time, and it wasn’t TOO broad and inconsistent (pick any moment from VIII), then I would be hey-ho pip and dandy. Let’s just say I didn’t get beachballs in my eyes from watching this. 7.5/10 Additional: That fucking shot of the sandstorm over the station. Perfect execution. It made me so, so happy.
Exactly my point. Everyone knows they played Poke face, so it just didn’t work for me. Sorry, I totally misinterpreted your post! Agree, you’d expect them to have covered the basics of Poker by now. So, Ainsley Hitler then – is this a Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg reference that I can’t remember? Or just a general nod to Ainsley Harriott?
I thought it was a very good episode! Flowed nicely with plenty of laughs and I didn’t see a problem with the ending at all? Is it any more abrupt than some of the classic dwarf?! Not at all. Personally I wasn’t a huge fan of Series X but Series XI was great and this has started even better. Here’s to a brilliant series. Boys from the Dwarf……….
– Messalina seems like really small fry evil compared to the others, especially Stalin and Hitler. Maybe they felt that at least one of them had to be a woman? I think Doug just has her in his shortlist of ‘evil’ people. I happened to have Meltdown on earlier and noticed she was mentioned. “Er, who do the enemy have?” “The cream of evil – Hitler, Napoleon, Messalina, Caligula, the Boston Strangler, dozens of them.” Her crime seems to have been politically ambitious and an indiscreet adulteress. Hardly on the same level as the others, as you say.
Oh, the sign language joke was hilarious! A great example of “ridiculous” not necessarily being a bad thing – it was completely bonkers and off-the-wall-stupid, but a very funny image indeed.
>I really think everyone is overlooking how good the tea-tray/salute gag is. It’s an INCREDIBLY awkward way to hold a tea-tray and makes absolutely zero sense, but seeing Hitler doing the salute and the goose-stepping and the fist thing was worth a titter
>Both his brothers were Liverpool fans when he was younger, so he decided to be a Leeds fan. This was on the life story program. Ah right, that must have been as a kid in the 70s. He has spoken about being a Liverpool fan later and hitting his head and being carried down the Kop. I’m pretty sure he has also been pictured at an FA Cup final in the 00s.
Exciting news ahead of tonight’s live DwarfCast – we’ll be joined in the “studio” by the former editor of Doctor Who Magazine, writer on Wizards vs Aliens and The Sarah Jane Adventures, and celebrity Red Dwarf fan, the one and only Clayton Hickman! I do hope as many of you as possible can join us to chat along live at 9pm.
Oh, the sign language joke was hilarious! A great example of “ridiculous” not necessarily being a bad thing – it was completely bonkers and off-the-wall-stupid, but a very funny image indeed. I was particularly impressed with the headless Kryten. I couldn’t spot anything that looked off or like an effect about it, though that could change when I see it in HD. The compositing seems to have taken a massive step up from XI, as particularly evidenced by the fact they managed to make the abandoned hangar bay shots work. The first thing I asked after the premiere screening was if the extra year had given them time to improve on the model shots. I am so happy that it was the case. I cannot overstate how pleased I am that every new series has impressed me with how good it looks. I wasn’t expecting much of a change between XI and XII, but XII’s hugely improved compositing makes a huge difference. Comparing the Starbug landing in Cured to the Blue Midget landing in Entangled is a really great illustration of just how far we’ve come in the last three series. Oh, also, I really enjoyed the episode. I love the idea of Cat being diagnosable as a psychopath by human standards, because it really does fit, but I can’t help but feel a lot of people are going to somehow interpret it as turning the Cat into a murdering psycho and ruining the character when all it’s doing is applying human standards to his existing character. The War to End All War, started by America, was some great history of the future. As an American I can vouch that this is something we would probably do. Most of my other points about what I liked in the episode have been hit on already by other people. I _always_ fucking love new Red Dwarf on first viewing, so it’s going to take a while before I can really form my true thoughts on the episode. I’m going to give it a second watch to try and more closely appreciate the smaller details, now that I know how it goes. My only real complaint on first viewing is how rushed the scenes of peril before the ending scene feel, but that honestly came across more as the limits of the production showing than bad editing. I thought the ending scene was great and wrapped everything up without feeling rushed, so I can forgive the minor issue leading up to it. Plus, it was nice to see Rimmer in a legit state of panic, unable to run away.
. I love the idea of Cat being diagnosable as a psychopath by human standards, because it really does fit, but I can’t help but feel a lot of people are going to somehow interpret it as turning the Cat into a murdering psycho and ruining the character when all it’s doing is applying human standards to his existing character. Tbh if it wasn’t the cat you know it would probably be Rimmer since Doug did give rimmer the wheelchair rant which makes him abit of a dick. The quote the inquisitor on the cat “He is a shallow and selfish creature, as is the hologram”. Personally i didn’t mind them reflecting on those faults of the Cat but did anyone really buy that the cat switched sides? did Doug believe anyone would? does Doug forget sometimes that he is making series 12 of a long running show? Honestly if they were gonna do the Cat tricks the bad guy thing Doug should have just gone for it and not drawn it out so long that just made the Cat look naive until the last moment. It would almost be clever if the cat switched sides and then switched back to the dwarfers so the bad guy would actually be desperate enough to allow cat to have a gun if he switched back… but i don’t think that was the idea.
>I was particularly impressed with the headless Kryten. This is one bit that I wasn’t impressed with. When he was walking with Lister the shadow of his (missing) head was present on his chest. Bearing in mind it wasn’t visible whenever the body walks into shadow, this could have easily been avoided.
>Personally i didn’t mind them reflecting on those faults of the Cat but did anyone really buy that the cat switched sides? did Doug believe anyone would? does Doug forget sometimes that he is making series 12 of a long running show? The audience aren’t the ones who need to buy it. Telford is. Telford hasn’t seen Series 1-XI. >Doug should have just gone for it and not drawn it out so long that just made the Cat look naive until the last moment. I think that is really stretching out the definition of drawn out. He moves back and forth once to set up the premise, back and forth a second time for the joke about a special surprise and the final time for him to deliver his poker face. Basic structure there. Hardly drawn out at all. You’d hate Stewart Lee if you ever saw one of his shows!
Just rewatched it and absolutely stand by the final scene with Cat switching sides multiple times. It works great and Doug didn’t linger too much on the setup to each switch after the initial dialogue. Great stuff.
I think that is really stretching out the definition of drawn out. He moves back and forth once to set up the premise, back and forth a second time for the joke about a special surprise and the final time for him to deliver his poker face. Basic structure there. Hardly drawn out at all. You’d hate Stewart Lee if you ever saw one of his shows! Personally i don’t know whether the special surprise was one more than was needed. If the idea was that the cat wanted to get the bad guy on edge so he would feel he had to try harder to get the cat on his side and so give into the cats demands with the gun then id think that was fairly clever… but back,forth and then another back and forth may have been more then what was needed. Its like the deleted scene for lemons where they filmed a second moments where jesus turns around to the crew mentioning his name which they cut it down to one in the final episode and honestly that was the best thing they could have done because there was no reason to draw out the gag or do it a 2nd time to validate a point across
Just watched and enjoyed it a second time. Lots to like, good jokes, good performances. Hitler was great. The campness did put me in mind of The Producers but it was different enough. “It’s because I’m Hitler, isn’t it?” was the best line. The jamming session and the daft tea tray joke worked for me. I liked the slow start but more time with Lister and Hitler bonding or with the other evils might have been preferable. Or, even better, more of that instead of the Dwarfers’ four separate predicaments, which felt very rushed anyway. (I mean, why didn’t Doug/Telford combine four separate predicaments into one, though?) I didn’t care for headless Kryten and the Cat was very obviously bone dry in the water tank. I like that Lister keeps a knife in his boot, though. I did think maybe for some reason Kryten might keep Spare Head Three on Starbug for emergencies… The last ten minutes or so felt a bit scrappy and Telford’s plan didn’t make sense, didn’t buy him trusting Cat with the gun. Cat being a psychopath was handled well I thought, and the switching allegiances stuff was pretty good, especially Lister offering the special surprise. Overall a fairly strong start to the series but not as good as most of XI. Why does Cat call Rimmer “Cincinnati”? And when was the last time Lister said “Get outta town!”?
It is a classic sitcom trope with the twist of playing on the nature of cats. And most importantly the special surprise angle is funny. Cutting the mid section of the exchange makes the scene lack a good woofer. It would be flat without it. It is no more drawn out than the “I’ll give you all the fish you’ve ever wanted” exchange in Series 1 or “So what is it?” in Series IV.
Suppose its just subjective. if it was the cat being clever and bluffing his way through it as you would poker then that would be cool but if you are playing back and forth on the Cat being naive then to me it goes into the silly series 8 area of comedy IMPO.
Calling Rimmer “a bit of a dick” is the understatement of the century. The only “controversy” surrounding that line I’ve seen is people saying “this line might prove controversial”, which it hasn’t. And yes DJJ was so very clearly bone dry in that scene, which is a shame. I’d forgotten just how shit that was. Couldn’t they have just filmed it at the end and actually got him at least a bit wet? Perhaps they wanted to prevent this from becoming “the one where DJJ almost got electrocuted and had to be saved by Sylvester McCoy”
> Messalina seems like really small fry evil compared to the others, especially Stalin and Hitler. Maybe they felt that at least one of them had to be a woman? I wonder how tempted Doug was to use Thatcher……..? :p I agree, the Rimmer ‘thruster’ line was probably messed with cause he said ‘right thruster’ on the night? Or, due to the episode order being moved around, he said something in reference to one we’ve yet to see? Anyway, I found myself enjoying it a lot more this next viewing. There are little things I missed earlier, like how Kryten is saying ‘according to the Psycho Scan’ instead of the usual ‘according the Psi-Scan, sirs’ and yeah Hitler IS one of the funnest guest stars the show has seen. Ryan Gage was a particular high point in the Hobbit films as well, I thought. It IS worth noting this was a billion times better than Can of Worms. So that in itself is a massive relief!!! :D
Something struck me on repeat viewing – it’s not a great episode for Kryten. He doesn’t say anything during the opening scene, I don’t think he’s given a single gag in the entire episode. It’s all just exposition. And Bobby fluffs the word “memories”when he’s talking about how the nasties were reincarnated. On an unrelated note, shouldn’t being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear?
Something struck me on repeat viewing – it’s not a great episode for Kryten. He doesn’t say anything during the opening scene, I don’t think he’s given a single gag in the entire episode. It’s all just exposition. And Bobby fluffs the word “memories”when he’s talking about how the nasties were reincarnated. On an unrelated note, shouldn’t being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear? I thought that about Lister too.
Not sure I agree with some of the model shot stuff. The moon base itself was great but the Starbug shots are nowhere near old Dwarf levels. I don’t like the model itself but they’ve never got it right for me in the new Dave model era. I’d love to talk to Mike Tucker, see what he thinks because I swear blind they don’t film it high speed anymore, or not at as high a speed. They always look like 2 foot plastic models. Which the old eps avoided unless there was some kind of impact, and even then, they looked better than now.
My brother’s had issues with the XI/XII Starbug model compared to the old model, as well. He did a bit of rejigging a little while ago. https://twitter.com/bromley001/status/778661137172815872
Being shot on film as opposed to 4K(?) video would also make the model shots look more realistic No doubt film grain would add some illusion of small details, but I don’t think that’s it because occasionally they seem to get it right, for example the coming to a stop slow motion sand crash shot from Twentica. Generally though I think they must film at standard fps 25 or 50, whereas from memory old model shots used to be around 100. Could be lenses too, because there’s a lack of depth of field on some shots that should have more if you think about it. As I said, I’d like to talk to someone who actually knows because it’s been bugging me for a while. I could be talking bollocks but I feel like I might not be haha And yeah Dax, the legs are awful. I don’t even know how they support the model. Worst thing about the new Starbug, even worse than the blister engine cowl things.
I feel like this ought to be obvious but why should being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear? Kryten had a few bits: the Rupert Murdoch gag, being shut down, stumbling about with no head, the mop, revealing Cat’s a psychopath. And I quite liked him just nosing in during the first scene. One thing I wasn’t keen on was how sarcastic he sounded when he said to the Cat “Do you think it might perhaps have been ‘drugged'”? or whatever the line was.
>I feel like this ought to be obvious but why should being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear? Duct Soup and Lister’s previously unannounced claustrophobia.
Can RED cameras (if they even use them for the models) shoot at 100fps or would the file sizes/data transfer rates just be too absurd to even consider? I didn’t think the Starbug-crashing-into-sand shot looked all that great, honestly. It was fine. I think other shots looked better.
I’ll bet Rimmer’s awkward thruster edit was because he mentioned replacing the wrong thruster. Hmm. Wasn’t this episode the one the opening scene in “Officer Rimmer” was originally filmed for? (If you look at the set report, then the tiny teaser is for ‘Gerald the Giraffe’.) It would’ve made more sense here…
Can RED cameras (if they even use them for the models) shoot at 100fps or would the file sizes/data transfer rates just be too absurd to even consider? I didn’t think the Starbug-crashing-into-sand shot looked all that great, honestly. It was fine. I think other shots looked better. Not the crash itself, some of that was like a hotwheels car bouncing off a kerb, just the close up shot of it coming to a halt and the sand falling off the top. I believe the REDs the use on Dwarf can do 120fps but don’t quote me on that. New REDs can do multiple hundreds.
Duct Soup and Lister’s previously unannounced claustrophobia. If Duct Soup is canon, then Kryten’s worst fear is Lister not giving him enough attention. But hey, there’s no reason Lister and Rimmer can’t both be claustrophobic. And it’s not like Telford read everyone’s minds to deliver each of the RD crew their own unique Room 101 experience; he was just killing/torturing them in arbitrarily cruel ways, and Rimmer’s a general coward so at that moment being buried alive was his worst fear – just as physical torture was his worst fear in Terrorform.
This is one bit that I wasn’t impressed with. When he was walking with Lister the shadow of his (missing) head was present on his chest. Bearing in mind it wasn’t visible whenever the body walks into shadow, this could have easily been avoided. Ah, I didn’t spot that. Maybe something to do with the fact that I was sitting off to the side of the screen at an angle and back a bit, because in watching with just one other person I still managed to get a shitty seat. Even if the effect has a fault, that doesn’t hurt the humor of the the situation for me. I’m well used to far iffier visual effects shots in this show. But hey, there’s no reason Lister and Rimmer can’t both be claustrophobic. Bury anyone alive and they will feel claustrophobic about it. Especially when they accidentally light a fire six inches away from themself. Rimmer having a long-term fear of being buried alive seems like a very appropriate anxiety for him, obsessing over an abstract horror situation that realistically had zero probability of ever happening. I mean, it did end up happening, but still. I feel like my childhood fears of the furnace getting me could more likely come to fruition than a fear of live burial. At least I could feasibly stub my toe on the thing or cut my finger changing the air filter. Roaring metal bastard.
Watched the episode really late last night so I’m not sure how much my opinion can be trusted, but I thought it was a little bit shit. I’d probably dislike it more if I didn’t still have 5 more episodes to look forward to and if it was somewhere in the middle of the run. Here’s what I thought: Pros: -There were some good jokes every now and then (“It’s because I’m Hitler” and the pod discovery being personal highlights). The Hitler/Lister song got a laugh out of me at first, but got old quick. -The poker scene was quite good. It reminded me of a classic season III opener and was a nice shot of nostalgia to start the show off with. Cons: -Probably the worst thing for me was the Hitler selfie, as it almost seemed to cause me physical pain. I mean, what kind of phone is he using? No one in the Red Dwarf universe has used a smart phone before, where’d he get it? It’s gonna be a horribly dated reference most likely as time goes by. It was a cheap excuse for him to do the Nazi salute that genuinely made me start to hate the episode, although it seems I’m alone in that. -Some of the line deliveries and actions were really dodgy. I noticed everyone slipping up, not just Chris like it usually is. Also, during the leaning sequence Danny took longer leaning than the others for a part, but that’s nitpicking. -Maybe I’m just crazy, but for a little bit while Starbug was in flight the bottoms of its feet looked untextured. People say it was a real model, so that’s a bizarre thing to see. Anyone have an explanation, or am I remembering wrong? -The way it was shot didn’t feel very ‘Dwarfy’. It almost felt too sleek and refined, especially during the Cat drowning part. It didn’t have any grit or movement in the same way as old seasons. -Some of the effects looked really bad, like Kryten on a pole. It took me out of it for a second. -The guy playing Hitler had some poor moments, but these were usually followed up by a small comeback. Overall, pretty weak episode. The group I was watching it with also didn’t care for it, but maybe it’s just us damn Californians. I’ll wait till I’ve seen it again before I make any final judgements, though.
No one in the Red Dwarf universe has used a smart phone before, where’d he get it? It’s gonna be a horribly dated reference most likely as time goes by. That’s a shame, because jokes in Red Dwarf about present-day culture usually age so well.
No one in the Red Dwarf universe has used a smart phone before, where’d he get it? It’s gonna be a horribly dated reference most likely as time goes by. That’s a shame, because jokes in Red Dwarf about present-day culture usually age so well. I’m realizing that’s as valid of a point as “the continuity is broken”, should’ve thought that through more carefully. I guess I shouldn’t let that bother me, but I still think the joke is VIII-level comedy wise. Sorry for being that person who posted off of raw emotion and not actually thinking in more of a show context. The rest of my comment is also really nitpicky and honesty a bit shit itself. That’s what I get for trying to find every flaw, I suppose.
Something struck me on repeat viewing – it’s not a great episode for Kryten. He doesn’t say anything during the opening scene, I don’t think he’s given a single gag in the entire episode. It’s all just exposition. And Bobby fluffs the word “memories”when he’s talking about how the nasties were reincarnated. On an unrelated note, shouldn’t being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear? I largely agree BUT he did get the great visual gag of his head impaled on a mop which was one of the top laughs of the ep, for me.
I hated the concept of the selfie gag on paper (literally…. thanks SFX) but it was executed in a way that made me laugh. I don’t think it’s weird that Hitler has a smartphone because the crew of Red Dwarf and the crew of the base they encountered are from different earth eras, aren’t they? I’ll have to refresh my timeline memory as to if Lister joined RD before “the war against wars” (I’d presume so, since they had to be told about it) but it’s personally reasonable to think that a ship that left the planet after Red Dwarf would have later technology.
I largely agree BUT he did get the great visual gag of his head impaled on a mop which was one of the top laughs of the ep, for me. Bobby got a proper woofer with the Murdoch gag. The biggest laugh anyone who wasn’t Ryan Gage got. He’ll have been happy with that!
Yeah, the torture bestowed upon the Dwarfers wasn’t supposed to be conjured from their worst fears – how would Telford know them? They were supposed to be things the evils would do – Hitler put Rimmer in an oven and Vlad impaled Kryten. Not sure who would laser somebody’s Johnson off or drown the Cat, though.
Selfies (taking pictures of yourself) aren’t going to go away until narcissism goes away, which will be never, although I would like to live in a time when selfies are a dated reference, I don’t think I ever will
Selfies are no more narcissistic than portraits, and they’ve been around for centuries. I hate this idea that modern day young people are apparently more vain because they post pictures of themselves on a feed people have chosen to look at, rather than hanging massive ones on walls.
From the Stalin Wikiquote: “When I am gone, the capitalists will drown you like blind kittens.” And the automatic castration was presumably meant to be ascribed to Messalina.
Selfies (taking pictures of yourself) aren’t going to go away until narcissism goes away, which will be never, although I would like to live in a time when selfies are a dated reference, I don’t think I ever will Isn’t it just a new technology-specific word for something people have always done, in various forms? A “selfie stick” prior to the last 3 years was called “your arm”.
At no point did I ever say “today’s kids are more narcissistic than ever before”, but thanks for projecting that onto my post. I merely said “selfies will never go away as long as narcissism exists.” In a way, digital cameras lowered the class barrier for entry into showing everybody your stupid fucking mug every single day.
Interesting quote about Stalin and drowning kittens, that’s interesting, never heard that before. Clever innit.
No problem with selfies, just the device used. Should have used a Polaroid camera, already old so doesn’t age, and fits the continuity, Future Echoes, DNA etc.
The droids being from the Dwarfer’s future (the double-future future from our perspective) kind of explains away how they could possible have a smartphone rather than a polaroid camera. People have been taking selfies for as long as cameras have existed, but smartphones made them ubiquitous and they are most closely associated with smartphones. I don’t really care either way so I don’t know why I’m typing so much on the matter.
When it comes to modernising red dwarf i think a minor issue i have with the modern take is that its trying to be futuristic modern rather than ahead of its time and i think that can often date the show and why some of the early shows for the most part and beyond some dated special effects still hold up.
>a minor issue i have with the modern take is that its trying to be futuristic modern rather than ahead of its time Could you be more specific?
Have they run out of Starbugs now? Is Starbug 19 just Starbug 18 rebuilt by them, or a different ship?
i guess if you care for an explanation, you could say that they’re using Starbug 19 because the other 18 Starbugs were taken by the crew at the end of Only The Good. you could also use that to explain why they’re so desperate to get Starbug back in Entangled- it’s not like they have any others anymore
There are clearly at least two Starbugs on board Red Dwarf in “Backwards” and “Terrorform”. I think “Only the Good…” is the only episode that explicitly shows they’ve got loads of them. In OtG… presumably ALL the Starbugs (and Blue Midgets) were taken by the evacuating crew, so where do they get more from?
i guess if you care for an explanation, you could say that they’re using Starbug 19 because the other 18 Starbugs were taken by the crew at the end of Only The Good. you could also use that to explain why they’re so desperate to get Starbug back in Entangled- it’s not like they have any others anymore Odd since it was said they didn’t have enough crafts for everyone to be rescued and yet there was another starbug just sitting there?
Nowhere does it say there are 19 Starbugs. “19” could be a name, a date, a Paul Hardcastle tribute, anything.
19 could be the model of Starbug. Like how the terminator across the three films is referred to as T-800, T-850 and T-101. 101 refers to the model and 800/850 refers to the series.
Why are people worried about a smartphone? We’ve seen Lister has a smart watch that can be used to interact with Holly.
Noticing a few other points on a second watch of the episode on UKTVPLAY Firstly a really nice subtle bit of a background joke. Vlad the impaler is seen eating a meat on a stick type kebab, at the meal. Secondly there is really patchy edit work on this show, a bit substandard on some exposition lines. 4.33 “Maybe we can fix… Star bugs… thruster” Appears to be an edit of two takes with a generic Chris Barrie delivery of the words “star bug” taken from elsewhere in the show/series and pasted across the divide making the rhythm sound like Chris was forgetting the line as some people have been mentioning, when he wasn’t in fact. 9.20 “I suggest we relief the professor and ask them is they have the tech to repair the thruster” Sounds like it was badly ADR’d by Robert rehearsing down a phone or emailed the words in etc its that bad. Its barely pronounced or written properly and you can clearly see Kryten isnt talking as the line starts, pasted over his walk. Fine to speed things up doing that, but i could do it better in windows movie maker than whoever has done it here. These moments are noticeable I feel though neither is on the comedy so doesnt hurt any gags. its a shame, wether the edit didnt have the needed coverage or it was a half arsed final dub.
Also speaking as the big Madness fan on this forum, may i say that the Robot Hitler, Vlad, Mesalina and Stalin are all welcome to join me in a one step beyond nutty train, based on their robotic shut down and leave the room deactivation walks.
Noticing a few other points on a second watch of the episode on UKTVPLAY Firstly a really nice subtle bit of a background joke. Vlad the impaler is seen eating a meat on a stick type kebab, at the meal. Secondly there is really patchy edit work on this show, a bit substandard on some exposition lines. 4.33 “Maybe we can fix… Star bugs… thruster” Appears to be an edit of two takes with a generic Chris Barrie delivery of the words “star bug” taken from elsewhere in the show/series and pasted across the divide making the rhythm sound like Chris was forgetting the line as some people have been mentioning, when he wasn’t in fact. 9.20 “I suggest we relief the professor and ask them is they have the tech to repair the thruster” Sounds like it was badly ADR’d by Robert rehearsing down a phone or emailed the words in etc its that bad. Its barely pronounced or written properly and you can clearly see Kryten isnt talking as the line starts, pasted over his walk. Fine to speed things up doing that, but i could do it better in windows movie maker than whoever has done it here. These moments are noticeable I feel though neither is on the comedy so doesnt hurt any gags. its a shame, wether the edit didnt have the needed coverage or it was a half arsed final dub. The Chris instance couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that this episode originally had Officer Rimmer’s opening scene, could it?
I’ve had some time to think and ive written a better ending. “I only need to know how to say it” cat blows his gun and smiles. Cut to star bug the crew returning into the cockpit. Kryten : ” Ready for take off sirs, the driods have fixed star bugs damaged left thruster for us.” Cat “Great no more turning always turning left” Star bug model shot, lift off, both rear thrusters ignite, the ship turns fluidly. Then the right thruster that was fine all episode suddenly stutters flashes and goes out. Cut back to cockpit. The crew feel the jolt. Krtyen (looking dejected) “right rear thruster failure, sirs the droids must have messed up the rear wiring.” All the crew sigh, and lean again in the other direction to turn the ship, all looking miffed. Lister ” Typical Hitler, always ends up smegging leading people to the far right. bastard” Fade out to credits: version with rock guitar sung by Dolphie. with the final line “what a groovy tune i really dig it. Fabulous”
There is really patchy edit work on this show, a bit substandard on some exposition lines. Yeah, it wasn’t great in places. It’s not even like it needed to be rush-edited to get it broadcast, it was recorded 20 months ago! Someone mentioned that it sounded like Rimmer’s entire dialogue in the “we leg it and leave them to die” scene sounded ADR’d, which it kind of does, so maybe there were mic problems during the recording. But now I come to think about it, I don’t think that scene was recorded on the night, so I’m really not sure. “Relief the professor” was noticeable, and I’m pretty sure that (like most scenes on the night) was recorded multiple times so it seems odd that that is the take they went with (and didn’t correct it in post). I also don’t think we got the best take of Hitler’s “oh no” line, which was recorded a good five or six times on the night, although it still remains hilarious. It is fortunate that the episode is so strong that none of it matters. On second watch of the completed episode, I loved it even more than the first: there are so many beautiful moments. Cat’s complete inability to comprehend Messalina’s lack of interest is brilliant. Both “shut down” sequences – the poisoned crew and the droids at the end – were perfect. I’ve watched the Happy Wanderer bit about ten times now and despite everything saying it shouldn’t, it really does just work; any song choice that involves Hitler going “ah ha ha ha ha” is surely the correct choice?! And so many other great moments that I feel, despite my bias because it’s the only RD episode I have ever seen recorded and therefore it will be special to me for that reason, that I genuinely will go on to consider it a classic episode of Red Dwarf.
The Chris instance couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that this episode originally had Officer Rimmer’s opening scene, could it? Thats a very good point, and now that youve said that, im wondering if i heard “silky as the day we got her” on the recording night or not. They may have elaborated the start up sequence more, which lengthened the time on star bug in the episode. Then causing a section to be worth cutting out of the star bug part of the episode which might have been why they felt a re-shoot of it could then be used as a stronger scene in series XI now it had gone into deleted scenes pile.
The Chris instance couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that this episode originally had Officer Rimmer’s opening scene, could it? It seems as if that scene was specifically recorded for Officer Rimmer after all. Danny is wearing the same outfit in OR throughout the episode, which is largely the same as the outfit in Cured just with a different jacket. So presumably, although I didn’t notice on the night, he swapped into the Officer Rimmer jacket to film that scene and then went back to the Cured jacket for the rest of the filming. The ‘left thruster’ stuff was done separately, I think (relying on a memory from 20 months ago where a LOT happened on the night!), and illustrated by a cool storyboard on the night.
>Why are people worried about a smartphone? As far as I can see, the argument is that it was okay for 1980s episodes to use 1980s technology, because watching them in 2017 they feel dated and so charmingly retro-futuristic. Whereas if a 2017 episode uses 2017 technology it’s not retro-futuristic yet, it’s just present-futuristic, and that’s either too dated or not dated enough, I’m not sure which. What I think it means is that in 20 years time it will have been okay for Red Dwarf to have a smartphone in it, but Series XXIV won’t be allowed to show jetpacks or whatever technology is common-or-garden at that point.
I love how they have a meal with the cured evil characters, on first watch go a real sense of dread that this might be how the crew ended up “friends with the hitlers” etc, so gave an echo of out of time worry to Listers meeting with hitler one on one, with out being too on the nose connected.
The ‘left thruster’ stuff was done separately, I think (relying on a memory from 20 months ago where a LOT happened on the night!), and illustrated by a cool storyboard on the night. This one?: https://twitter.com/RichardDGNaylor/status/698808496490483713 Fascinating fact is that between storyboard and model shot, the non-working thruster has changed sides. Is the storyboard one just a mistake?
Did anybody else feel a bit weird when Cat DIDN’T get a round of applause after killing the prof/delivering his poker face line? It felt like it was all set up and the applause was about to come but then everybody decided/was told not to. Lesser things have been applauded in older episodes, and this feels like exactly the kind of thing a modern Dwarf audience would applaud at, but it didn’t happen.
– Messalina seems like really small fry evil compared to the others, especially Stalin and Hitler. Maybe they felt that at least one of them had to be aa woman? . Yes. That. But then, also think about it like this. She was really a robot scientist, and in setting up his trap, it was needed to find an evil woman that she could pass for physically and maybe that plus messalina being a nympho was some how appealing to a lonely psychopath stuck on a space station.
On an unrelated note, shouldn’t being buried alive be Lister’s worst fear?. We do get a slight nod to his duct soup feelings on this with the line “doesnt it give you the claustrophobic sweats” or something like that, but i would say since then he has almost had his balls blown off in entangled so he’s more worried about losing his balls now. but then he probably isnt alone in putting castration as a top fear over dying in a small space, and he’s got the future of the human race in his pants!!! so he doesnt want to be red dwarfs chief eunuch
Fascinating fact is that between storyboard and model shot, the non-working thruster has changed sides. Is the storyboard one just a mistake? Yeah that struck me as odd when I was reading through the Gazpacho Soup opening credits analysis where they have both the model shot from the credits and then the storyboard. Is it possible they recorded it as “Starbug’s *right* thruster” on the night to go with the storyboard, and it wasn’t until later that they realised that it would need to be the left thruster that was knackered in order for the ‘only turn left’ gag to work?
speaking as the big Madness fan on this forum, may i say that the Robot Hitler, Vlad, Mesalina and Stalin are all welcome to join me in a one step beyond nutty train One Goosestep Beyond.
Did anybody else feel a bit weird when Cat DIDN’T get a round of applause after killing the prof/delivering his poker face line? It felt like it was all set up and the applause was about to come but then everybody decided/was told not to. I felt a bit like that about the guitar duet too, which felt like it was really playing to the studio audience in a way that didn’t really work for TV viewers.
Not the best joke but I really enjoy “Are you on your own or is there a Mrs the Impaler?” which I haven’t seen any love for.
I felt a bit like that about the guitar duet too, which felt like it was really playing to the studio audience in a way that didn’t really work for TV viewers. We didnt have Hitler revealed in advance when watching , or that there was a guitar jam. I think there is some UKTVplay watch veiwers who have called it a WTF moment too, so it’s more a case of how much pre publicity has
I wasn’t really talking about any of that. Just the actual performance of the moment itself, which felt like it had an energy that might have been felt when seeing it live in a way that didn’t come over quite the same when recorded.
It wasnt done live though. It was recorded and played in as a VT. So i really think the audience enjoying it comes mostly from only having just met Hitler as a character shown and then totally surprised by a guitar jam,
Ah, that’s interesting. Maybe that explains why it doesn’t get the applause that I would expect if it had been live.
Interesting that that they played it as a vt – I too thought it was something that would play really well to an audience, better than to a home viewing. But then the Starbug dance in VIII would have been quite the spectacle for a studio audience – one for the Red Dwarf Live stage play?
I presume it was a VT because: a) The Starbug upper deck isn’t a standing set b) Neither Craig nor Ryan can play the guitar or sing that well
Odd since it was said they didn’t have enough crafts for everyone to be rescued and yet there was another starbug just sitting there? Maybe the Dwarfers cobbled together what was left of the wrecked Xtended Starbug.
Ah, that’s interesting. Maybe that explains why it doesn’t get the applause that I would expect if it had been live. Actually, from what I recall (though I am happy to be corrected), I think it *did* get a round of applause on the night, even on VT. I think they just decided not to use it, for whatever reason.
That “Mrs. The Impaler” joke seemed quite contrived to me. What kind of reformed character would use the suffix ‘the Impaler’? Doug should have had him introduced by another character. I think it would have worked better. I’m picking the fuck out of that nit. (I’d not heard of the Mandela effect before. Very interesting.)
Didn’t they say the episode’s original edit was like 40+ minutes long? The edit must have been quite tight so extraneous applause went out the window.
(I’d not heard of the Mandela effect before. Very interesting.) C3PO’s silver leg is the one that always gets me.
OK finally had time to sit back, undistracted and watch it. Cos I’m on a train. Liked it. Lean plot, clever, timely. some good laughs. Great effects. Perhaps a little Rimmer-lite. The ‘ramps’ gag got the biggest laugh out of me. But then I wear a suit and work in banking. One of the top four Dave era eps for me.
C3PO’s silver leg is the one that always gets me. The Monopoly guy doesn’t have a monocle. Neither does the Pringles guy.
Think it’s pretty clear that a smart watch in 1988 is absolutely different to a smartphone in 2017. The Holly watch was 25 ish years ahead of its time. It’s only recently that we’ve had smart watches with full colour screens and whatnot that could run a digital assistant. That’s great sci-fi foreseeing. Like the communicator in the original Star Trek. The old triangular VHS and Polaroid cameras were never really old fashioned to me, particularly the camera, as people like physical stuff. The Polaroid and phone camera accessories that print physical photos have recently become really popular. And tape is still the number one archiving format I believe, so there’s a reason to use it if you want it to last. There’s also the it was already old so it doesn’t age as badly argument, which I do think is partly true. They could have had discs, there’s numerous discs in the early series, Holodiscs, Holly’s chess game, but the tape is a bit less flash, more fitting for a mining ship, and more rugged, and now as disc drives disappear from computers, putting a disc in a cd drive does look pretty old hat, even compared to a green VHS which is now so old and out of service that it’s circled back round to being quite futuristic. They also have the ships vid, which is presumably like a streaming service. So that’s all good prediction to me. A smartphone on the other hand, not so much. It reminds me of those sci-fi films where the future is just what we have now but see through and blue. Mobile phone? Now it’s as thin as acetate and you can see your hand through it. Just a bit unimaginative, except they didn’t make it see through, they just used a generic smartphone. It’s a minor thing but it’s the kind of attention to detail that would be nice. Especially when you already have established options.
I don’t think the joke of Hitler taking a selfie would be as funny if he wasn’t using a smartphone to do it, though. Similarly, I thought the 3-D printing stuff in Officer Rimmer last year was fine: an extrapolation of a modern idea to find the comic potential in it. I didn’t really care that they wouldn’t have had 3-D printers in the earlier series because they hadn’t been invented in real life yet, or that they had never shown a 3-D printer in the series before. You could make the same complaint about the countless anachronistic pop-culture references that the show makes, but the incongruousness is part of what makes them funny, for me.
To the people it bothers, how do we know it’s a phone? I know it’s supposed to be a phone for, y’know, shits and giggles. But if it bothers you, use the fact that it’s not explicitly identified as a phone and pretend it’s just a futuristic Polaroid camera. If someone had called it an iPhone or a Samsung, I’d completely understand the annoyance. As it is? nope.
To the people it bothers, how do we know it’s a phone? Because you can see it is? Anyway, it doesn’t ruin my day or anything , it’s a solid joke, just thought I’d elaborate while we were talking about it. I think if you’re going to do a phone joke which is so current, go whole hog with it and stick a snapchat esque filter on it. Give them all Hitler taches or something. SSchnapenchat perhaps.
When Kryten is hacked and shut down. We finally get a taste of what Swedish Kryten would have been like. :-)
Starbug dance? Is this the Mandela effect? I thought it was called the P W Botha Effect? Wait a minute, where am I?
I think if you’re going to do a phone joke which is so current, go whole hog with it and stick a snapchat esque filter on it. Give them all Hitler taches or something. SSchnapenchat perhaps. *barf* Yes, it took my three weeks to read this far into the thread, clear off.
Tbh the four sticks thing would have worked if they’d all shown up on Entangled, two crossed, one exploded, and one got sad and wilted off the screen/lost its boner after a fifth entered the screen then went flying off the edge, leaving it to say Red Dwarf X.
