Going like the clappers News Posted by Ian Symes on 5th November 2019, 09:51 Well, we weren’t expecting to do another front page post so quickly, but it’s not every day you get your first official glimpse of a new Red Dwarf production. The Official Twitter (TOT) has released a still from yesterday’s first day of filming, showing a bit of Kryten, an obscured Lister and a big old clapperboard: The first thing we noticed is that Series XI and XII DOP Ed Moore will not be fulfilling that role for the Special. After some top investigative journalism from us (ie. sending a tweet), we discovered that Ed is sadly unavailable this time round, but that he wishes the gang all the best. Instead, cinematography duties will be performed by Ian Adrian, who worked alongside Ed as a camera operator on Series XI, and has credits on such shows as Doctor Who, Ashes To Ashes, Call The Midwife and Eldorado, among many others. Other than that, we can ascertain that Starbug is back, as is Lister’s penchant for exotic shirts. And is it us, or is Kryten’s chest monitor darker than normal? Could just be the angle or lighting, mind. It also looks at first glance like it’s covered in scratches, though this could be a reflection of something. In other news, Danny has tweeted a pic from his dressing room, which includes a call sheet on the side. Now, who wants to examine the full-size jpg to see what they can gleam from that document? Ah, scouring innocuous photos for hidden meaning based on absolutely nothing at all. We’ve missed this bit. EDIT: Danny’s deleted the aforementioned call sheet tweet, and replaced it with this one, so that we can have a good old look at the back of Kryten’s head instead.
All the best to Ed, but I’m glad someone else is taking a crack at the lighting this year. I wasn’t a fan of the insane amounts of blue from XI/XII, and by the looks of this photo it looks like that problem is thankfully gone. Huzzah!
I think it’s a stretch to assume anything about the look of the special from that one still. Just because one scene looks a certain way, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the rest of them will look the same.
Lighting wise it was said they were trying to recapture the series 5 and 6 look for XI and XII. I just wish they recaptured the quality too.
Look at what the slate says… take NINE?! Its surprising isn’t it, because the cast are all well known for nailing every scene first time and never making a mistake.
Also, it’s a pick up (PU), rather than the ninth complete take of the scene. Not that nine complete takes of a scene would be unusual for Dwarf.
Red Dwarf does have a tendency to burn through its HODs at an alarming speed – I’d blame the long hiatuses between series but there were some who didn’t even make it past XI. This is also the first time since Back To Earth we’re going ahead without Howard Goodall in the ranks, who was the last remaining link in the production team to series 1.
Kryten mask looks the same to me from that shot. Still got his 4 tit chest plate too by the looks of it.
Wasn’t Doug on the production team in Series I. Not until 1989. Script didn’t fall under Production. Howard left the show after XII. As you would too.
There other people currently on the planet who are perfectly capable of producing good music, but it is a shame not to have that one
Wasn’t the music in Back to earth Library Music. Howard often added bits of the theme and other music cues to his new works. without him it might end up just being Library Music, and perhaps recycled stuff from the previous series that Howard might allow them to use.
The white marks on Kryten’s chest monitor sort of look like LED glow cables. Like maybe they’re inside it, as opposed to a reflection of the lights.
I think it’s that a) Howard’s music in the ’90s was excellent and part of the character of the show; and b) the way his work was treated in season XII, that sours it a bit.
He composed an extensive score for XII and about five minutes of it was used. That’s strange. Do we know any of the reasons why this decision was made? Was it not up to usual standards, not fitting with the tone?
Thats weird since XI and XI used alot of recycled music from the previous series. there was me thinking that was done to save money, but i guess not.
Thats weird since XI and XI used alot of recycled music from the previous series. there was me thinking that was done to save money, but i guess not. I’ve never been keen on them using the recycled series I & II cues in modern Dwarf. As much as I love them in those early episodes, they just jar with the visuals and mess with the pacing of the later episodes. They didn’t appear at all in III-VI (is that right?! I think it is) and, regardless of varying opinions on quality of the later episodes, it’s undeniable that they’re trying to match some of the middle-years’ vibe. [As I write that, I’m aware that middle-years, as I’ve long thought of III-VI, is a very inaccurate term now. I guess the middle years would be somewhere around 1999-2009. Not the most fertile years in Red Dwarf history].
He composed an extensive score for XII and about five minutes of it was used. That’s strange. Do we know any of the reasons why this decision was made? Was it not up to usual standards, not fitting with the tone? The XI/XII sessions are some of his very best work for the series yet were replaced almost entirely with library tracks or the original temp score. The last time they did this to him, in series VII, he then didn’t work on the series for 15 years, until he returned for X purely as a favour and where even then half his stuff was dropped. It’s not like he needs the work either – he’s musical royalty in this country and they should have been honoured he bothered to say yes in the first place when he clearly has a dozen more prestigious and better-paid things to do. I think the only thing that’s gone out completely as originally scored in the entire Dave era is Officer Rimmer. You can’t treat people like that.
(I think the context of all this comes down to one very obvious fact – Howard Goodall is more famous and higher profile than Doug Naylor is.)
Do we know any of the reasons why this decision was made? Just one of a number of baffling production decisions during the Dave era. It really is strange, though. Imagine getting a whole bloody score made like that for a British sitcom these days, other than Red Dwarf. And then not using it.
I must admit I did hear some of Howard’s stuff in Series X, and it felt a bit….i dunno cheap? From all the stuff i’ve heard of Howard’s in Red Dwarf, the times he manages to get physical instruments or an orchestra, the music always sounds fantastic, but when he uses synths, he always tries to make it sound futuristic and it never quite works. The one score i think people remember of his in Series X, which was the missile shooting scene in ‘The Beginning’, is I think a perfect example of that.
If you just view him as a man who was paid to do a job, then the director has every right to pick and choose which parts of the work, if any, he wishes to use. Howard Goodall may be Howard Goodall, but Doug Naylor is also Doug Naylor. They both have industry clout. If this was some no name composer I’m not sure this conversation would have quite the same tone. That said, it probably would have been better than njust recycling the same few I + II stings over and over. I’d really like to ask Doug/his editor(s) what the fuck happened with that and some of the extremely curious shot choices. It’s not like they didn’t have the time to make or consider a better edit. I understand it’s very easy to get attached to how your draft edit looks and sounds and once you’re used to something you can start to prefer it even over things that are objectively better. It’s called demoitis and it’s just how humans function
*Does* Doug Naylor have industry clout though? Genuine question. He has *Red Dwarf* clout, but is that the same?
The XI/XII sessions are some of his very best work for the series yet were replaced almost entirely with library tracks or the original temp score.. So you’ve heard it? Is this score available somewhere then?
There’s an unreleased soundtrack album version of it that a few of us were invited to listen to after XII went out. Hopefully when the dust settles a bit he’ll make it widely available.
Doug Naylor has enough clout that Terry Pratchett wanted to co-write a book with him. If that answers your question.
Could have had John Williams doing the music and Doug still would have reserved the right to instead just use TLC’s No Scrubs if he wanted to, is the point
Can we please have an episode of Red Dwarf that is littered with No Scrubs stings, please and thank you
Doug Naylor has enough clout that Terry Pratchett wanted to co-write a book with him. If that answers your question. By that logic Stephen Briggs is President Of Earth.
I think we can all agree that a sequence in Out of Time following Kryten saying ‘I’ve got gussets to scrub!’ where he does so in a 3 minute montage soundtracked by No Scrubs would improve the episode immeasurably.
If Howard is out can they still use his music? While the series 1 and 2 stings got old I prefer them over the cheap, cheesey music from Back to Earth. The Music Rimmer listens too at the diving bell and the carbug driving music I always found very tacky sounding and really takes me out of the scene.
If Howard is out can they still use his music? Presumably the BBC/GNP commission Howard to write music for a fee, which he does, and then they own the publishing rights. Howard would get a royalty anytime its used. I could be wrong though, my knowledge of music publishing with regards to original scores for TV/film isn’t as extensive as it is for other areas.
There’s always the possibility of another Timewave, so calling it “good” is jumping the gun. (I’m kidding)
Imagine if Doug saw the reaction to Timewave, thought ‘shit, I got it all wrong, I need to rectify this with an extended 90min version just to clarify my position’ and that’s what we’re getting.
Could have had John Williams doing the music and Doug still would have reserved the right to instead just use TLC’s No Scrubs if he wanted to, is the point Well, that would be nothing new to Williams. His scores for the prequels were fucked around with just as much as this. The Force Awakens didn’t fare much better. And let’s not get started on the Lost World. I wonder, do Doug and the editors actually work with Howard to get a sense of what’s needed for the music? Or do they just send him the episodes and let him get on with it? We’ve never heard much about the process. Because it feels like they’re not really on the same page.
Talking Howards, I’d like to see what Howard Burden has cooked up for the costume redesigns. Since Kryten looks more or less the same from the glimpses we have, that leaves Lister, Rimmer, and Cat. From what I can tell, I think Lister’s shirt is new.
Could have had John Williams doing the music and Doug still would have reserved the right to instead just use TLC’s No Scrubs if he wanted to, is the point True, but the conversation was largely in the context of ‘why would Howard not want to work on the special?’ – hence the answers.
*Does* Doug Naylor have industry clout though? Genuine question. He has *Red Dwarf* clout, but is that the same? Someone ask David Ross if he is “legit”!
It’s a fair question. No offence to Doug but I’m not sure doors are as open for him as they were in the 1990s. Whereas Howard Goodall is a bestselling recording artist, big West End player, big classical crossover name, established film/TV composer, popular TV presenter, in-demand public speaker/educator and prominent social media activist. And a CBE. It’s very common for even the biggest composers to have their scores rejected or desecrated, but it’s weird when it’s your regular composer on series 12 of your show, and weirder still when it’s a very high profile composer on a low profile cable TV show.
I wonder if Doug is sort of in the same position as Chris and Robert seem to be – semi-retired from acting, but they make an exception for Dwarf.
When Goodall was out for Back To Earth they still used his themes, so presumably him not composing music for the new episode won’t stop them using his old stuff if they want to.
There’s always the possibility of another Timewave, so calling it “good” is jumping the gun. (I’m kidding) Joking or not, there is some truth to your jokes :P I wonder, do Doug and the editors actually work with Howard to get a sense of what’s needed for the music? Or do they just send him the episodes and let him get on with it? We’ve never heard much about the process. Because it feels like they’re not really on the same page. Well he must have been on the same page because he had to put together stuff like the Rimmer quartet for Officer Rimmer. I suppose you would need to look at Series XII and see just how much new Goodall music was used. and then compare it to how much-recycled music was used from earlier shows. if there was more recycled stuff, then i could imagine why Howard is not working on the special.
It used to be that the difference in quality between the best episode in a series and the worst episode in a series was pretty negligible. In the Dave era, all bets are off.
The score for the prequels is utterly astonishing so I don’t really care if it was fucked around with, I don’t care if it was all Lucas fucking around in Logic, the end result is excellent.
The white marks on Kryten’s chest monitor sort of look like LED glow cables. Like maybe they’re inside it, as opposed to a reflection of the lights. At first glance it reminded me of a fibre optic lamp like we used to have, but I dismissed that as being impractical and figured it must be a reflection instead. Or energy-efficient Kryting lighting? Giving Bobby some electric shocks for old times’ sake?
VERY INTERESTING NEWS possibly related to the fact that Red Dwarf has had this sudden recommission – Dave have just lost the rights to Taskmaster…
Have they absolutely definitely lost it? I know this year is the end of their contract, they’ve not been able to agree terms with Avalon for Series 10 yet and there’s been talk of it moving to just about every channel you care to think of, but I don’t think it’s been officially confirmed that the next series won’t be on Dave yet…
What characterises this as a “sudden recommission”? The cast have been saying for ages that they were going to start on new Red Dwarf in November and it’s obviously been in the works for a while, so it’s not like this just happened. Also, I haven’t seen any confirmation that Dave has lost Taskmaster either. But it’s been rumoured for a while now that it wouldn’t return to Dave, and the more recent reports are talking about Channel 4 or the BBC snatching it, so who knows.
I’ve always thought the BBC would snatch it whenever they could. Would be a shame though, but it’s so good that you can just imagine someone in television centre has been chuntering about missing out on it for the last 5 years or whatever. Massive loss for Dave if true though.
I’m wondering if this is potentially going to be the last Red Dwarf with the current cast/crew? The cast themselves (and Doug) are all boomers who are not getting any younger, let’s be honest.
We live in times where franchises can continue in spite of the actors’ advancing ages. Harrison Ford is going to reprise Indiana Jones at the age of 77, in that light 59 is the opportune time to get stuff done.
Give it 5 years for AI to come on a bit, and we’ll have an Indiana Jones de-aged deepfake/CG hybrid head on a mocapped performance from Harrison Ford in a story set in 1945. It won’t matter how old he is. That Gemini Man or whatever it’s called, the young Will Smith is entirely CG, not even a head replacement, just full CG and that’s pretty good.
I’m wondering if this is potentially going to be the last Red Dwarf with the current cast/crew? The cast themselves (and Doug) are all boomers who are not getting any younger, let’s be honest. No a problem for me. The slower the crew gets, the more it means itself towards a nice symmetry where they return to the I and II style. I’ve said it before, but I would love Red Dwarf to turn into Last Of The Summer Wine: The Next Generation.
Maybe “sudden recommission” was wrong. Certainly “sudden throwing their weight behind Red Dwarf” though. UKTV are definitely out of the Taskmaster race though, Dave has definitely lost it. It’s now between the BBC and Channel 4 – Dave don’t have the heft to compete. It’s Avalon – they’re notoriously greedy, vicious bastards. But that’s a big back catalogue for Dave to lose as well. They’re going to feel that.
Yes, news that we just heard, caused the Red Dwarf production team to throw a script together and start filming, plan audience recording dates etc etc, BEFORE the news was public. All of this, including months of pre-planning, is in reaction to something that hadn’t happened yet.
UKTV would have known this was on the horizon many months ago. They usually are planning more Taskmaster when the previous series is going out. Sometimes the following series is already in the can. Regardless of the timing, it makes Red Dwarf a more important property for UKTV.
From what I gather, it’s been known for a while both that the Taskmaster deal was going to be up for renegotiation at this point and that it was quite likely to be poached. So the idea of them shifting resources onto Red Dwarf being connected with Taskmaster isn’t a ridiculous one.
Thanks Soundable/Dave for explaining what I was trying to get at. The takeaway is that Red Dwarf is now UKTV’s biggest original property all over again. And that has big repercussions, probably *very* good ones for us. I’ve said before and stand by that Taskmaster was wiping the floor with us for Dave’s attention and resources, and was one of the biggest threats, if not THE biggest threat, to Dwarf’s survival after XII.
They should’ve done a Taskmaster/Red Dwarf special for the 30th, the fools. Kryten would have wiped the floor with the rest of them. And he would have used the rest of them to wipe the sideboard, sink, bath, caravan…
Not really a good thing for Red Dwarf in the long run though is it? What have Dave got to bring the ad money in? Apart from Red Dwarf and Taskmaster their original programming isn’t that strong, lots of ‘alright’ stuff, but nothing with the pull to fill a Taskmaster sized hole. Can see them having a bit of a struggle.
It was fine pre-2015, but I think all of UKTV is fritzed in the long run though anyway. It’s got the type of channels that will be the first to fall to streaming. And by then Dwarf will be history. For now, we’re Employee Of The Month again.
Taskmaster was probably also easier, quicker and cheaper to make then Red Dwarf. but Red Dwarf has a built-in fanbase that has a worldwide appeal in sales. so its kinda obvious why Red Dwarf is attractive to Dave and BBC worldwide.
I wonder if new Red Dwarf is something that could get commissioned as “original content” for BritBox, particularly if the old episodes do well on there, and given RD’s previous BBC links.
Let debate number 882 about Kryten’s head commence https://twitter.com/dannyjohnjules/status/1193114910651236353?s=21
>Give it 5 years for AI to come on a bit, and we’ll have an Indiana Jones de-aged deepfake/CG hybrid head on a mocapped performance from Harrison Ford in a story set in 1945. 5 years? They’re at it already. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/afm-james-dean-reborn-cgi-vietnam-war-action-drama-1252703
>Give it 5 years for AI to come on a bit, and we’ll have an Indiana Jones de-aged deepfake/CG hybrid head on a mocapped performance from Harrison Ford in a story set in 1945. 5 years? They’re at it already. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/afm-james-dean-reborn-cgi-vietnam-war-action-drama-1252703 They did it in Ip Man 3 I think it was, brought Bruce Lee back. I imagine the one you linked, like Bruce, will end up being a bit plasticy, but in a few years with the speed deepfakes have improved, it’ll be a piece of piss and probably require one CG artist for an entire film’s worth of shots.
If anything, I don’t like the gloves Robert has been wearing these last few series. They make his hands/fingers look fucking huge compared to the arm and it really stands out. Like someone has filled them full of air and they are ready to pop off.
I like them, they look in-size with his arms in the photo there, plus I like Kryten having aspects of him that look overtly non-normal tying into his brand of mechanoid looking more unrealistic than the uncanny valley simulants.
That’s yer Taskmaster off to Channel 4 then Wonder where the repeats will be. Probably a good time to be a comedian with a show concept, Dave will be in a commissioning mood and have some money to spend.
Remember how Kryten was rusty in Danny’s video. Is it just me, or is Kryten also rusty in this pic. Look next to his hands.
Yes, I can’t remember if it was noted in this thread or another but I think there’s definitely rust and disrepair there. It will be interesting to see them experiment with that kind of look – a little reminiscent of ‘low’ Kryten from Demons and Angels.
He’s got those scratches on his monitor as well, if that’s what they are. Maybe he’s been in an accident like at the beginning of Terrorform, and been stranded for a long time.
That was the first thing I noticed, Veni, but I think somebody else in the thread dismissed it as a reflection of camera equipment, or something. But then indeed, somebody pointed out that it could tie into him being all rusty in that video.
