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  • #11534
    Bob Loblaw
    Participant

    Community was discussed in a thread a little while ago and I thought it deserved its own thread, giving that it’s coming back soon.

    Oh, and also because this trailer just came out and it’s the best trailer of the year: http://www.tv.com/news/community-watch-the-trailer-for-the-rest-of-season-3-video-28037/

    #115791
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    A show I have heard so much about…..it’s on the “to do” list and I’ll get there eventually….

    #115798
    si
    Participant

    My sister loves it, and forced it upon me a couple of months ago. We watched every episode over the course of a week or so, and now I am utterly hooked. I am so looking forward to it’s return next week. A very funny, very clever show. :)

    #115799
    si
    Participant

    Question: why THE FUCK is it not showing on any channel over here? It’s exactly the sort of thing I expect to find on E4 or somewhere. Channel 5 even. It deserves to be seen. It took me about 3 episodes, but then I was hooked.

    #115804
    Carlito
    Participant

    It’s bloody brilliant. So glad it wasn’t cancelled and is coming back.

    #115821
    si
    Participant

    Oh. I’ve been alerted to a Tweet via @tubetalk:

    Community season two will air in the UK on Sony Entertainment TV from April 10!

    Not sure what number channel that is, but I know I’ve got it. Still ridiculous it’s not being shown on terrestrial or Freeview, though.

    #115823
    JamesTC
    Participant

    E4 should give a try airing it.

    Still meaning to get into this. Been recommended to me by a few people.

    #115829
    si
    Participant

    People keep comparing it to Spaced. It’s more of an ensemble piece, but I get the comparison – it’s clever, has the pop culture/geeky references, and some brilliantly written and realised characters. Can’t believe it took me so long to watch it.

    #115841
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I keep meaning to ask. Has anybody else watched Todd And The Book Of Pure Evil yet? I really love this show….kinda like a stoners comedy with brains but of a similar feel to that of Buffy……Villain/disaster of the week in format but also with an ongoing Season story arc. Some great characterisation and development too….

    I think Seasonm 1 airs over here soon. Can’t remember where or when though

    #115842
    si
    Participant

    Sony Entertainment TV is Sky channel 157. Just thought I’d mention it. So that when I’ve forgotten to set the Sky+ in a month’s time I can just check this thread to get the channel number.

    #115850
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Community is easily the best comedy on American TV right now.

    #115852
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Too bad that at least one of the Americans here has never heard of it! I clicked on this thread expecting it to be about the G&T community. Suppose I have to check it out now with so many ringing endorsements. (:

    #115857
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    It’s on Hulu, Mabel. You can watch the whole thing there.

    #115859
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >I keep meaning to ask. Has anybody else watched Todd And The Book Of Pure Evil yet?

    Yes, although I missed some of episode one as I was doing something else at the time.

    I enjoyed what I saw. Goofy silly fun with a twisted slant.

    As for Community… I confess I’d never heard of it until I read the posts here!

    #115860
    Bob Loblaw
    Participant

    @Carlito, Although it’s coming back for the rest of S3, we still won’t know if S4 is happening until May. But the producers seem to be semi-confident based on recent statement.

    Glad to see so much love for the show in here, it has filled the Lost-shaped hole in my heart.

    For anyone who wants to get a taste, or just need something awesome to pass the time, this channel is streaming all the episodes back to back on a loop:

    http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4db4dbecb1f0c

    (Just hit remind me later. Oh, and I always have to refresh first.)

    #115861
    Carlito
    Participant

    It has such a passionate core audience, one would hope NBC see sense and commission a 4th season in spite of the low ratings, even if it means showing it in a less prominent timeslot (and the budget decrease that will perhaps bring). Everyone involved in the show seems to be as passionate about it as the audience.

    Let’s hope it’s not another Arrested Development situation.

    #115863
    Bob Loblaw
    Participant

    If you haven’t seen it yet, I’d highly recommend the recent Paley panel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFb6kmzKpxQ).

    Dan Harmon talks about being glad that it is now known that no matter which show goes in at their 8pm slot, up against the juggernaut that is Big Bang Theory, it won’t do great numbers, as has been proven by 30 Rock in the last few months.

    Based on what I’ve seen and read online, NBC are actually promoting the return of the show a lot more than most fans thought they would, based on their history of not mentioning Community if at all possible, so that’s got to be a good sign.

    #115865
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Community will be renewed. It is near the magic ~88 episode number for syndication.

    Sony, the production company, sold ‘Til Death to Fox for a cut down price so they could get it close enough to 88 episodes and syndicate it. These days in American TV, syndication is the main driving force. Sony will sell Community to NBC at a low enough price so NBC make a profit from ad revenue and Sony can make back any net loss with syndication.

    30 Rock on the other hand I am very afraid for. It is doing similarly badly in the same timeslot. When Community returns it will move ahead half an hour and hopefully improve but the damage may have already set in. It is already syndicated and it is produced by NBC (which is generally an advantage) but the ratings really are dipping quite low. I guess the only saving grace is that while 30 Rock doesn’t skew young enough it does skew to a richer audience which might be desirable to advertisers.

    #115877
    si
    Participant
    #115882
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Cheers Ben, will check it out. (:

    #115911
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Community has been sold into syndication starting in Fall 2013. This basically means that a Season 4 is a dead cert. Sony would be throwing away money by not licensing the show to NBC at a cheaper rate (and making it worth NBC’s time suffering the relatively lower ratings for a final ~22 episode season).

    #115912
    si
    Participant

    Well, I hope a UK terrestrial/Freeview channel picks it up. :)

    #115946
    Phil
    Participant

    I watched last night’s episode. The second I’ve ever seen, after the previous season premiere.

    I…don’t get it.

    #115950
    Carlito
    Participant

    I too watched last night’s episode.

    As a fan, I thought it was a very run-of-the-mill episode. A few elements seemed to me like forced kookiness. The Shirley and Britta conversation (“Two Minutes Later”) was cringeworthy, and so out of tune with what the show usually goes for.

    It is capable of so much better. Problem is, when I discovered the show, I watched them all from the start and my joy grew organically along with the show. But when I showed all my mates my new discovery, I simply lined up the ‘event’ episodes (the genre or high concept eps such as paintballing, goodfellas, halloween eps etc.) knowing that would hook ’em, but then there’s the sense of disappointment when you keep watching after that kind of introduction and start watching the more standard fare.

    Knowing just how good this show can be can make you forget that it simply cannot be THAT show every single week. Now and again it needs to be a simpler affair to get you invested back into the characters again. But its hard not to feel a sense of an anti-climax when that happens.

    And lesson learnt: if you are the uninitiated intending to check out Community, watch them all in order from the start. And stick with it. It’s worth it.

    #115951
    si
    Participant

    I’ve watched them all in order from the start, too, starting just a couple of months ago. This was my first ‘new’ episode. I’ll probably watch it properly later, with the first ten minutes included, and the pictures not 8 seconds behind the sound.

    #115956
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    >And lesson learnt: if you are the uninitiated intending to check out Community, watch them all in order from the start. And stick with it. It’s worth it.

    Message received. (: I am the uninitiated, but not for long – the school where I’m teaching goes on Spring Break in a couple weeks… :))))

    #115962
    si
    Participant

    Watched the episode for the second time an hour ago. The ‘Literally two full minutes later’ bit (which I missed last night) was actually one of my favourite jokes. An average episode maybe, but still better than so much other stuff. Although it’s only just registered with me that Chang wasn’t in it.
    I like Annie’s Boobs*.

    *No, of course I don’t mean the Monkey.

    #116211
    si
    Participant

    So, s2 starts on Sony TV tonight at half ten. There’s an interview with Joel McHale on CultBox. The end of this quote’s pretty interesting.

    Community’s had a lot of really famous guest stars like Owen Wilson and Jack Black, and a lot more appear in Season 2. Are there any other celebrities that you would love to have on the show?

    “Well, having John Goodman on [in Season 3] was a dream come true. Just to be able to say I was in the same show as him I could be like ‘Well that’s something I can tell my great grandchildren’. But I would love to work with Bill Murray.
    “Tony Blair would be great – anything to bring the UK into us.  Also the cast of Twilight, the cast of The Hunger Games…
    “Also you know who’d be great? Richard E. Grant. After Withnail & I, I was just like ‘this is the guy who I am going to watch through everything’ because he’s just so damn good. And I guess the cast of Red Dwarf too.”

    Full interview: http://www.cultbox.co.uk/interviews/exclusives/3394-joel-mchale-community-interview

    #116199
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    D:

    #116203
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    >”And I guess the cast of Red Dwarf too.”

    Red Dwarf cast: the crazy brother-in-law of famous guest stars.

    #116395
    si
    Participant

    That there Ben Paddon has started a very amusing Community/Doctor Who page. Who screencaps with Community quotes. My sister’s gone mad, and is submitting loads of possible caption jobs.

    Go, look.

    http://whommunity.tumblr.com/

    #116396
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Your sister has gone very, very mad indeed.

    #116397
    si
    Participant

    Don’t worry, she’s back at work today.

    #116416
    NoFro
    Participant

    I just started watching this show a couple of weeks ago and have just finished catching up with it completely. Great show. The characterisation is particularly strong and it’s great how it uses it’s flexibility (facilitated by Abed’s way of looking at things and how infectious it is) to do character studies.

    Also extra points for getting Michael Kenneth Williams to say “A man’s got to have a code” once again.

    EDIT: Also, though it’s “event” episodes are great, Cooperative Calligraphy is surely one of the most effective bottle episodes ever. As funny as anything they’ve ever done and what must have been an incredibly cheap episode to film.

    #116417
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Community has been renewed for Season 4. It will be 13 episodes (I assume with the possibility of ordering 9 more).

    #116418
    si
    Participant

    Better than nothing. :)

    #116586

    Ehhhh. They ordered new episodes, but the showrunner, Dan Harmon, was replaced, and a lot of writers are gone. I don’t have much confidence in the upcoming season, to be honest, especially after the awesome stuff this season did. Ultimately it might have been better if it had been cancelled.

    So I dunno if this is the darkest timeline, as such, but it’s getting there.

    #116597
    NoFro
    Participant

    Have to agree. A lot of people were getting really worried about it not getting renewed but my opinion was that it was a great show and if it didn’t get renewed it’d end as a great show with a hefty number of episodes to enjoy (more than Red Dwarf in just 3 seasons). I was worried that if it went on there would sooner or later be the inevitable drop in quality and the announcement that Harmon has been replaced seems to be indicating that may indeed be happening very soon.

    Still, I hope it remains the great character based sitcom that it is and doesn’t just become a show that just does endless parodies for the fuck of it as, like Red Dwarf, it is the well defined characters that make it a great show rather than a good show and it is the characterisation that makes most of the jokes work as well as they do. I think the problem I have with this change is that the balance is so spot on with Community and it’d be so easy for it to be shit or just of disposable quality rather than being one of the best shows around at the moment.

    #116629
    Carlito
    Participant

    Community as we knew it has been cancelled. It was great while it lasted. Even if the new showrunners do a decent job, even a better job, it won’t be the true Harmon vision. It would be akin to letting Shakespeare write two thirds of a play and then fucking him off and getting somebody else to write the final act.

    (No need to point out the disputes about the authorship of some of his plays, it’s just a metaphor….)

    #116435
    ChrisM
    Participant

    You haven’t seen it yet. It could be excellent. (Although, considering the way a lot of shows go over time, I can see why you’d doubt this.)

    Mind you, I haven’t seen the original yet either. I’m thinking maybe I should look it up at some point.

    #116438
    si
    Participant

    I’d love to read something about shows that lost their creator, and how they fared or how long they lasted after the creative team was changed. I’m sure it’d make fascinating reading.

    #116434
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    The West Wing – not quite as good, but still excellent.
    Red Dwarf – shit for two series with only one creator, but quite possibly back on form 10 years later.
    Doctor Who – did alright after Verity left.
    Brittas Empire – shite.

    #116424
    si
    Participant

    *reads*

    Fascinating. ;)

    #116425
    JamesTC
    Participant

    That I can think of:

    Enterprise – Season 4 had the showrunner changed to Manny Coto and it is generally believed to be the best season.

    The Brittas Empire – Last two series were okay but nowhere near the quality of the first 5.

    Smallville – Changed showrunners from Season 8 onwards and was better for it.

    The Simpsons – Changed showrunner a lot:
    Season 1–2: Matt Groening, James L. Brooks, & Sam Simon
    Season 3–4: Al Jean & Mike Reiss
    Season 5–6: David Mirkin
    Season 7–8: Bill Oakley & Josh Weinstein
    Season 9–12: Mike Scully
    Season 13–present: Al Jean

    Star Trek – Gene Roddenberry basically walked out at the start of Season 3 leaving the people left to run the show. Being moved to Friday and beset with stinging budget cuts, it was never going to be as good as the first two but I still don’t think it is as bad as people say.

    #116426
    Bob Loblaw
    Participant

    There are examples where shows have maintained or improved the quality after their creator or showrunner has left. However, I don’t see Community being one of them. While I still expect it to be better than most comedies on right now, due to the cast and remaining writers, I highly doubt it will reach the heights it has achieved over the past 3 seasons. Dan Harmon was a showrunner in the style of David Milch or Aaron Sorkin, meaning he had a hand in pretty much every aspect of the show.

    #116427
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I was hugely surprised at how much I enjoyed The West Wing after Sorkin left; I went into it very worried and thinking it might not be worth watching, but I loved it. And Season 7 is amongst some of the best West Wing ever.

    #116428
    Carlito
    Participant

    The best example in US comedy that I can think of where a showrunner has so dictated the voice and sensibilities of a show is Larry David on Seinfeld, and that went right off the boil when he left.

    Even though Jerry is credited as a co-creator, it’s pretty evident that Larry was the driving force of the show and its comedic perspective, not only from interviews/behind the scenes info but from the on-screen product. Jerry became more involved in the creative side after David’s departure and whilst the show still had its moments, it became far more broad and off-beat, the characterisation was inconsistent and it jarred that the show wasn’t coming from the same singular vision it once did.

    Its slightly different in the UK as most comedies traditionally have one or two writers who tend to write the show for the duration of its run. However, as mentioned with Brittas above, it can lead to the best examples of how a show can decline when its creators are no longer on board. At least when Rob Grant left Red Dwarf (of his own choice), the other half of the self-professed “gestalt entity” was there to ensure that – whatever your opinion of the quality of the show beyond that moment – it was authored with at least one of the authoritative voices of Red Dwarf.

    Community will continue without its creator and its biggest fan (this is a man who paid for special title sequences for theme episodes out of his own pocket as there was no budget). It will also continue despite losing many of its longest serving writing staff and directors. It appears Sony are going for a total revamp to try and extend the shows run so it reaches syndication. But it cannot be the same show – the real show – even if it is better received or rated than it once was, in the same way that Red Dwarf could not be authentic Red Dwarf if, say, Doug Naylor bowed out and Series 11 was written by Paul Alexander with zero input from Grant or Naylor. Even if it were really good or even better than that which came before it. You can look at the endurance of The Simpsons despite several changes in showrunners, but it’s always had Matt Groening (and James Brooks) as a stabilising influence, ultimately its chief voice, even if he isn’t as hands-on as a Larry David or a Dan Harmon.

    It’s a real shame that Sony couldn’t have come up with a way to resolve the Harmon situation. The apparent issue was his sloppiness with budget and deadline overruns and general demeanor as a fascist for his art. I suppose the public spat with Chevy Chase didn’t exactly help either. The obvious solution to me would be to appoint a co-showrunner to handle that side of things and let Harmon handle the creative side. Instead, they renewed his show and replaced him without even telling him. Very worrying that it could even be allowed to happen, and now it seems the goodwill which kept the show alive despite its low ratings is slowly descending into comments across the internet such as “it should have just been cancelled instead” – comments unthinkable just a week ago when everyone was desperate for confirmation that the show would return. It’s a good job that the season 3 finale played out almost as a show finale because for many intents and purposes, it was.

    It’s really depressing that something like that can even be allowed to happen in the first place. That a creator can be ousted from his own work is really worrying. I know this kind of treatment isn’t anything new but coming from a wanky creative perspective, it’s very very bad.

    #116630
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >It appears Sony are going for a total revamp to try and extend the shows run so it reaches syndication.

    Community already has a syndication deal in place. It’ll start in Autumn 2013. With these last 13 episodes it’ll have just about enough for syndication (83 is a similar number of episodes as ‘Til Death which was zombified to syndication for three years by Sony).

    It is airing on a Friday after Whitney starting September. It’ll fall to lows and will be cancelled along with Whitney. People will wrongly attribute that to Dan Harmon being sacked.

    #116631
    Carlito
    Participant

    It’s probably got more chance of survival airing on Friday nights where ratings expectations are lower and its not up against The Big Bang Theory which probably commands a very similar type of viewer and gets huge figures. Its very loyal and vocal fanbase are a large proponent of its endurance thus far with poor ratings. If anything, it risks alienating those due to the dismissal of Harmon.

    If the show is cancelled after its 13 episode 4th season order, I don’t see how you can attribute it to anything but the dismissal of Harmon if the quality also declines. Sony would like it to reach syndication numbers; NBC probably don’t give a shit. They would not have ordered more if they didn’t think it was worthwhile.

    All it needs to do is gain acceptable figures on a Friday night, which it could if its fanbase follows it to Fridays and it can pick up some of those Big Bang viewers with Nielsen boxes. If the show becomes a different animal, attempting to appeal to a different demographic, and it doesn’t work, then it surely will be the end.

    When all is said and done, those who know or care about the behind-the-scenes shenanigans are ultimately a vocal internet minority and the general viewer probably won’t have a clue. If the new showrunners make it more appealing to the mainstream, it could hit big and run for years yet. The aforementioned Seinfeld only started hitting the big numbers in its fourth and fifth seasons. But it won’t be true Community anymore, either way.

    #116632
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I still don’t think The Big Bang Theory has much to do with the numbers Community gets. When it returned in March it had strong numbers, then Big Bang returned and it continued to have strong numbers (slowly dropping until the nadir last Thursday). When Big Bang in in repeats it gets around the same numbers.

    > They would not have ordered more if they didn’t think it was worthwhile.

    NBC are part producers of the show (through Universal Television) so they get syndication revenue. The more episodes, the better the syndication revenue. So by renewing Community and putting it on a Friday they have nothing to lose. If it is a success then they get a profit on advertising revenue and yet more on syndication. If it is a failure they can write off advertising revenue loss against future syndication profits.

    It will always be a failure on Friday regardless of Dan Harmon staying or going. Not only have recent past attempts by all networks to produce comedy blocks on a Friday proved to be disastrous but it has an anaemic and critically hated show as a lead-in and is up against a stronger comedy block by ABC (which I also expect to fail but not in as spectacular fashion as the NBC Friday comedy block). And most important of all, NBC will be launching 4 new comedies in September and NBC will be trying like hell to make those a success which will mean the other 6 comedies will get much less attention (especially those neatly tucked away on Friday).

    #116633
    Carlito
    Participant

    My point is they have had three seasons to assess the numbers and demograph that Community attracts and still decided to give it another run. I doubt NBC would bother ordering and giving prime time scheduling (even on a Friday) to a show that it felt was a lost cause, especially with advertisement slots to tout, whether they have part ownership or not.

    There was a vociferous outpouring when the show went on hiatus and its legend grew online and through social media enough that when it returned, its viewing figures were pretty respectable for once (for a couple of weeks at least). The fanbase is loyal, devoted and vocal and it made a difference. Where NBC has failed to effectively promote the show, its own audience took it upon themselves to do so and with demonstrable (if modest) results. That had to play at least some role in the decision to bring it back.

    Except they’re not bringing “it” back, because “it” was a product of Dan Harmon’s mind and he has been kicked to the curb so “it” no longer exists. I wonder if this was solely a Sony Pictures decision or whether NBC demanded it, and if not, how they feel about having ordered 13 episodes of a show only to see its showrunner get the boot.

    I think there’s a slight chance he will end up back in the mix somehow anyway so we shall see.

    #116505
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Okay, so why was Harmon fired? I thought he did an awesome job and I can’t find anyone who disagrees.

    It was pretty stupid to give Community a slot exactly up against BBT, but just scheduling it half an hour later would have ensured that most people who watch BBT on a Thursday night automatically switch to Community immediately after. I don’t see how giving it a COMPLETELY different slot on another day is doing anything.

    At least that’s how we do things in Germany, usually.

    #116452
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Okay, so why was Harmon fired? I thought he did an awesome job and I can’t find anyone who disagrees.

    Nothing has been announced officially, but the general consensus is that he was a public relations nightmare, was erratic and high maintenance, struggled to bring the shows in on time and within budget, directly led to a high turnover in writing staff with his words and actions, and refused to acquiesce to repeated instructions to open the show up to the more casual, mainstream viewer.

    You gotta respect him for standing up for himself and his vision. You also gotta concede, I guess, that it’s his own fault he’s gone. Still, very short sighted of Sony and/or NBC to figure “fuck the product – let’s get rid of this pain in the ass, churn out the remaining number of shows we need for syndication, then end it” rather than put up with Harmon for another half a year just to complete what he started so that the show, while costing the same and performing the same, will at least please the fan base it has acquired under Harmon and have a consistent tone throughout for syndication.

    #116625
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Thank you.

    Well; that sucks a bit.

    #206129
    si
    Participant

    So, season four begins very soon in the US. God knows when we’ll see it on the tellybox over here, but my sister is currently asleep on the settee, planning on getting up in about an hour, to download the new ep as soon as it’s on the interweb.
    I went back and started watching season one this evening, rewatched the first four episodes. It really is a great show, isn’t it? Very funny, so clever. :)
    Any views on s4e01 from American types would be interesting. ;)

    #206136
    Phil
    Participant

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/history-101,91985/

    Not my review, obviously, but if you wanted opinions from American types…

    I read it, and it didn’t feel spoilerish at all. But, as always, read at your own risk.

    #206139
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    And it is back on network TV, not just Hulu! Makes it much easier for me to watch, not having internet at home. Yet another show that G&T turned me on to.

    #206140
    si
    Participant

    Just watched it. Happy. :D

    #206144
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I found the first episode of the season to be very disappointing, like it was written by someone who doesn’t quite get what the show was about. It felt very Series VII, which makes sense considering the behind-the-scenes changes.

    #206148
    NoFro
    Participant

    I was pretty happy with it overall, though it was the first time I felt like the 22 minute runtime was a problem. Really felt like they didn’t have a time to fully develop some of the ideas. There was also a feeling of trying to recreate the Community vibe, which I thought they did really well for the most part but then I realised it was because they were retreading a lot of old material.

    This isn’t to say it was a bad show. I really enjoyed it. It just felt like they were overloading it with stuff to convince fans that EVERY SINGLE THING you liked about the last 3 seasons is still going to be there. Optimistic for the rest of the season though.

    #206342
    NoFro
    Participant

    After being quite happy with last week’s episode, this one just didn’t work for me at all.

    #206345
    si
    Participant

    Not watched last night’s yet. Meanwhile, my sister – massive Community nut – won a signed scrpt (from the Advanced D&D episode) and a Joel McHale-designed t-shirt last night on Twitter. She’s rather happy about that.

    #206346
    NoFro
    Participant

    Wow that’s really cool! Will be great for the description of the “love scene” alone.

    #206861
    si
    Participant

    If anyone’s remotely interested, my sister’s prize arrived this morning. Don’t worry, it’s from a *good* episode.

    #206862
    si
    Participant

    Sorry, I’ve ballsed the size up, haven’t I? Oh well, nobody reads this thread, it doesn’t matter.

    #209572
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    And now for season 5. Two episodes in, it’s not hilarious, but it’s promising. Jonathan Banks was good. I couldn’t say how much better season 5 is than season 4, which I haven’t watched, but tonight I had quite a few chuckles and one or two good belly laughs, courtesy of Abed, of course. Plus the familiar whooshing sound of references going over my head, which just makes me extra giddy about the ones I do get. Bring it on.

    #209582
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    So far both episodes of season 5 have been far funnier than the entire fourth season. So that’s a plus.

    #209621
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Yeah, I was advised to avoid season 4 by enough people. At some point I’ll watch it and form my own opinion, but currently there’s just not enough time.

    Thursday’s episode was great, though I felt the ending was a bit of a cop-out.

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