Doctor Who – Series 11

[Dave]

Worth a discussion thread?

We’re just watching Capaldi’s regeneration into Whittaker as part of our build-up to tonight’s episode. Such a great scene.

[Dave]

I thought it was OK, Whittaker was good and I like the new TARDIS crew more than I expected. It wasn’t a barnstorming debut like Smith though.

Oh, and I really like the new version of the theme tune.

[Bargain Bin Holly]

I thought Matt Smith was rubbish, that’s about as far as my opinions on Doctor Who goes before I stopped watching it.

[Pete Part Three]

The story itself was pretty by the numbers but the cast were on point and it worked pretty well as a new mission statement. I disliked pretty much all of the last season (and the Christmas special), so I’m interested to see where this goes.

[Flap Jack]

I really liked it! Very odd that there were no opening credits, though. I hope that’s not the new normal.

[Lily]

I’ll be honest and say that I’m not a fan of the sex change, but I’m watching at least the first few episodes to see how it pans out. It was good that they didn’t dwell on it at any point, just a quick ‘oh I’m a woman now, OK’ and moving on.

The story itself was alright but I feel like I’m left with a feeling of a lot of things not really making much sense.

How spoiler’y can we be in discussion? I presume because it’s aired it’s not an issue?

[Dave]

I was dancing around spoilers but maybe let’s just assume that anyone visiting this thread is up to date with the latest aired episode and only avoid spoilers for anything unaired.

So I can mention the fact that the advance publicity focusing on the three companions made it pretty clear that one of the four wasn’t going to survive past this episode! It was nicely handled, though – Walsh did well during the funeral scene.

I really liked it! Very odd that there were no opening credits, though. I hope that’s not the new normal.

I think Chibnall has said that we will see the new title sequence ‘in situ’ from episode two, so presumably it was just a one-off for this opener.

[Ridley]

I thought it was fine.

Doctor Who, at least the nu-ten series, has this atmosphere that I can’t describe which all the Who-wannabes – your Merlins, Primevals, Sinbads, Musketeer and Atlantiseses – try to emulate but can’t. This… didn’t have that.

Look: Art Malik!

[Warbodog]

Yeah, fine. It’s not really for me, but there’s a very limited range of Doctor Who that I really click with anyway (most of Tom Baker and early Matt Smith), so that’s okay. More interesting and worthwhile than series ten, which just felt like a by-the-numbers series for the sake of having one. Jodie felt a bit CBBC. New theme sounded good, the more electronic and less orchestral the better.

[Dave]

I liked series ten, largely because I thought Bill brought a great new energy and freshness to the series (after Clara long outstayed her welcome).

But either way I think a change was overdue this year, and this new version of the show definitely feels like something different.

[Toxteth O-Grady]

I don’t watch Doctor Who, but I do love the theme tune (the later Tom Baker version is my favourite, when they put it in a lower key).

Whenever there’s a new Doctor, I always watch the beginning of one of their episodes to hear what the theme tune’s like, and I’ve hated pretty much all of the versions since they brought the show back (Matt Smith’s theme was particularly unpleasant for me).

I’m glad to read they’ve gone more electronic for the latest series. Looking forward to hearing it. Orchestral sounded wrong, and they over-complicated it with daft little extra flairs throughout.
Minimal and electronic should be the sound of Doctor Who’s theme, as Delia Derbyshire arranged it.

[tombow]

I really liked the Eccleston series but I could never get into Tennant and kept drifting in and out of it.
Reasons –

-the sentimentalism was too sickly
-it seemed like there was too much quality variation – a great episode would be followed up by a silly one, and the extreme mix of styles from one episode to the next (horror to sci fi comedy) meant I never really felt excited about sitting down to watch it
-Tennant’s manic performance didn’t really grab me

having said that, I did enjoy a lot of episodes, and admired the imagination, I just couldn’t get excited about it.

Matt Smith’s era always seemed a bit too posh and mainstream for me, with all him and all his friends being tall white and skinny. Not saying there wasn’t good episodes.

[Bargain Bin Holly]

I quite liked Tennant (Of course, Eccleston beats him, but still), a lot of his stories stick with me as really good like Midnight, Turn Left, Waters of Mars, Human Nature, etc.

Though the number of times Tennant’s doctor went “I’m sorry, I’m so sorry” good christ, and his last story was just fucking terrible and he came across as such a whiny cunt “I DESERVE MORE” (If I was a Doctor Who fan, probably go down in my top 5 worst Doctor moments)

But overall, he was quite good and I enjoyed him.

[Warbodog]

I think the new theme might actually be the original theme embellished or remixxxed? Which is nice. People have ripped it to YouTube.

I often feel like rewatching the Eccleston year, I like how it’s so self-contained despite the flaws, but it’s probably better in my memory. It was mainly Moffat’s annual story that got me through the Tennant years, but all the other episodes mentioned were really good too.

We rewatched Matt Smith a few months ago and still mostly love series 5 & 6, but 7 was a largely unrewarding slog at the time and nearly all skipped now. Capaldi was alright, but I liked each year a little less and felt kind of detached from it. ‘Heaven Sent’ aside, which is ace.

[Bargain Bin Holly]

Okay, so I watched every Cyberman episode from Tennant and Smith (Exception of Smith’s last story with the wood Cybermen, but come on that’s fucking stupid anyway) so I have zero frame of reference for Capaldi’s Cyberman episodes; but good christ did they fuck them up. Never once was any episode with them good.

Worst ones:

1. Closing Time (James Cordon defeats them with the power of LOVE; give me a fucking break. Dumbest episode of Smith’s era)
2. Nightmare in Silver (Clara was a shit companion and should’ve been retired)
3. Doomsday (QUICK, we gotta make the Daleks look badass, give them some fodder to murder)
4. The Next Doctor (I’m waiting for the Power Rangers to show up anytime now)

Siliconia was the best Cyberman episode modern Doctor Who never had,

1. Humanised converted former humans; took time to actually watch and see them slowly lose their personalities (I know with Cybermen this is instantaneous except that one brief moment in The Age of Steel, but still the whole point of Cybermen is they were previously unwilling humans)
2. Made the enemies actually a force to be reckoned with by the main protagonists (I swear to God, every Cybermen story I’ve seen its just a bunch of army dudes blowing them up, OH LOOK AT OUR BADASS CLARA)
3. When the formerly human converts actually DO lose their personality, they are threatening (Cat especially, that voice Danny does is fucking ace) and they don’t act like robots like modern Cybermen but an uncanny middle-ground. Modern Cybermen is them clanging their feet and marching in rows all the bloody time in complete unison, no meat to bite into, yeah you can say its creepy that they are just indistinguishable from each other, I disagree you need some hints.

Yeah, Siliconia’s ending is practically a deus ex machina, but goddamnit does everything else about that episode work so well. Well anyway rant over, talk about Jodie and stuff.

[Lily]

So I can mention the fact that the advance publicity focusing on the three companions made it pretty clear that one of the four wasn’t going to survive past this episode! It was nicely handled, though – Walsh did well during the funeral scene.

I avoid all trailers and publicity, so this was a surprise to me. Unfortunately I found her the most likeable one of the bunch so was pretty pissed off that she got killed off for no particular reason.

I think one of the things that threw it most for me was that the sense of time and locations didn’t seem to flow right. I’ve a whole list of ‘that should have taken longer’ and ‘how did they get there so fast?’. Yeah it’s picky but it’s hard to get into a story when your mind is going ‘hang on, that doesn’t feel right’ all the time. How did the guy who lost his sister know the pod was there? Why are the construction workers on site at what must be middle of the night? She’s already killed him, why send him home and get annoyed at the lad for kicking him off when he’s already teleporting anyway?

So many niggles that just shouldn’t be there.

As for Whittaker? Ehhhhh, pretty hard to judge when it’s all regeneration madness. We’ll see after the next few episodes.

Fucking hate the culottes.

[tombow]

I haven’t seen it yet, but killing off one of the new team sounds like Torchwood

[tombow]

“I’ll be honest and say that I’m not a fan of the sex change”

I’m fine with it, but for logic’s sake shouldn’t it be called Nurse Who now?

[bloodteller]

>I’m fine with it, but for logic’s sake shouldn’t it be called Nurse Who now?

I’m pretty sure everyone’s already done this joke

Haven’t seen the new Doctor Who yet, don’t know whether it’s worth bothering with. The last episode I saw is that one where they accidentally make the TARDIS all small and the Doctor sticks his hand out and stuff. Not really a big fan of Doctor Who but if there’s nothing else on then I usually take a look. The only Doctor Who I really enjoyed was the movie with Paul McGann, I thought that was great

[bloodteller]

>I’m fine with it, but for logic’s sake shouldn’t it be called Nurse Who now?

I’m pretty sure everyone’s already done this joke

Haven’t seen the new Doctor Who yet, don’t know whether it’s worth bothering with. The last episode I saw is that one where they accidentally make the TARDIS all small and the Doctor sticks his hand out and stuff. Not really a big fan of Doctor Who but if there’s nothing else on then I usually take a look. The only Doctor Who I really enjoyed was the movie with Paul McGann, I thought that was great

[bloodteller]

>Yeah, Siliconia’s ending is practically a deus ex machina, but goddamnit does everything else about that episode work so well.

I didn’t mind the deus ex machina of them finding the Siliconia- it’s at least mentioned throughout the episode so it doesn’t feel like it comes totally out of nowhere- it was the little epilogue part afterwards that bothered me. We don’t actually see Rimmer and Cat back to normal, so it doesn’t really feel like they are, and “the soundproof airlock” is a really weak gag to go out on. The extended ending with Rimmer and Cat coming in forced to obey Lister should have been kept in, imo- it’s funnier and is a much more satisfying conclusion to the episode. It’s not like the episode was rushed for time either- it runs a little short actually, so they had plenty of time to include the scene.

It’s a shame, because apart from the ending Siliconia was an absolutely brilliant episode.

[MANI506]

I’m rewatching from 2005 using Ian’s excellent blog Curiosity In A Junkyard as a guide. I did watch every episode up until series 5 and after that I drifted in and out. My current opinion having only got halfway through series 2 is that Doctor Who is 33% amazing and 66% silly nonsense (1% awesome theme tune).

[MANI506]

I watched the first half hour of the new episode and found it surprisingly stagey with very functional dialogue. I will of course catch up with it all in due time (I’m currently on The Impossible Planet).

[genericnerdyusername]

>Doctor Who is 33% amazing and 66% silly nonsense

I agree, but the 66% silly nonsense is what makes the 33% amazing.

But what do I know, I enjoyed that one with Robin Hood. Pure silly nonsense, that was. This new one was a bit po-faced, which is fine. The thing that I didn’t like was any attempt at humour, which fell completely flat for me. That Capaldi one with him running around the castle on his own, I loved that one, and I don’t think there was any humour in that.

Jodie Whittaker is good in the role but hasn’t had a proper time to shine yet. I’ve seen people comparing her to Matt Smith but I found her very different. She talked fast sometimes, yeah, but she seemed more in control of her performance whereas Smith seemed a lot giddier, usually, which was part of his appeal (I liked Matt Smith a lot). She’s also clearly the most human out of nearly any Doctor (the only way she can top Davison is by doing something even more Doctor-y than sacrificing her life for someone she just met). At first I found it a bit jarring going from Capaldi’s aloofness, but then I realised I actually enjoy the Doctor being actually likeable as well as admirable.

I’ve said too much. If you’ve read all of this garble, I’m sorry, I’m so so sorry.

[cwickham]

Just as a sidenote, I see Mike Tucker has contributed storyboards for the next set of Tennant/Tate stories from Big Finish.

[Paul Muller]

My opinion is that it was good.

[Dave]

Christ, episode two was a bit dull wasn’t it. Clunky script and the cast all seemed a bit subdued compared to episode one.

It still looks very nice though, and I love the new version of the theme tune and opening. Plus, the Tardis interior looks pretty cool.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I quite liked it. Reminded me of a Star Trek (possibly Voyager) type of episode. Though it was a little paint by numbers, with obvious preachy dialogue (not that I have a problem with dialogue that is preachy, it just was written badly, wasn’t clever or subtle which is what I tend to expect from DW) – and both of those things add to the Star Trek feel of it.

I still love Jodie, I think she is awesome. The rest of her team still need a little teasing out, like Yaz needs something to do. Graham and Ryan were ok, added something to the story by fixing the boat and their characters / relationship were moved along a little bit.

I’m intrigued what this “timeless child” is about … and don’t care anything for the Stynza (?)

I’m enjoying this new run, looking forward to next week.

[si]

There’s not a Doctor Who fan in Sheffield who didn’t have a smile on their face when they mentioned the Police Box on Surrey Street.
There was no way they were going to get through a series which features Sheffield so prominently without featuring our green TARDIS somehow.

[Warbodog]

I’d read that Chibnall wanted to be more educational, but that felt like the most patronising one ever. I hope kids are enjoying it, at least. I can’t muster any enthusiasm for these arcs they’re sowing. There’d better be a ‘Blink’ in here somewhere.

[Lily]

I rather liked it. It seems appropriate that the crew are more subdued when they’re in culture shock from being in space and crash landing on an alien planet. It’s going to be difficult to have all of them playing a significant part in every episode, so while it was Ryan and Graham this week, I’d hope to have more focus on Yaz next week. It makes sense you can’t do character development on all of them when you’re still building the Doctors new character too.

As for the patronising side, I felt it more for the character than personally. In both the getting the boat to go and climbing the ladder, the character development was already there and was just spoilt by the Doctor coming along and giving him a pat on the head for being a good boy. The pep talk to get up the ladder felt very ’11’, but really we’re getting a bit beaten over the head with the dyspraxia bit. Just a shot of him psyching up before climbing would have made the point.

The talking mindreading rags seemed very … odd. Leaving aside the question of how rags can talk, if they can see all the way into a time lords subconscious (memory/whatever), wouldn’t the plan of what they were about to do be in big flashing letters? Eh, nitpicky. That whole scene felt very Harry Potter’esque for some reason I can’t pin down.

I’m happy enough to look forward to next week now.

[si]

Like every other Sheffielder, I’m happy that the Surrey Street Police Box found its way into an episode. They’d have been missing a trick not mentioning the Sheffield TARDIS.

[Dave]

I think we’ve experienced this period of time before, sir.

[Dave]

It’s going to be difficult to have all of them playing a significant part in every episode, so while it was Ryan and Graham this week, I’d hope to have more focus on Yaz next week.

I gather that Yaz will be getting a bit more time in the spotlight in episode four.

[si]

I think we’ve experienced this period of time before, sir.

Ah, yes. I’ll read what I’ve written where in future. I’ve mentioned it in two or three places, didn’t realise I’d reached G&T yet.

[Dave]

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey etc.

[Lily]

>I’d read that Chibnall wanted to be more educational

Whelp, guess that was the educational history episode of the series then.

But well done on Ryan getting rid of the bad guy, we’re NEVER going to be seeing him again -_-

[tombow]

I’ve never watched any Capaldi episode, so I got his first box set today and just watched his first ep about the robot organ collecter under Victorian London. I really enjoyed it.

[Warbodog]

I thought that was better than last week’s, and definitely a memorable and worthwhile entry even if it’s not one I’d watch again for fun. It could have been a Tennant/Martha episode easily enough, but benefited from the expanded cast. I’ll always pine for that time Doctor Who was mainly written by sitcom writers, and I miss seeing the full colour spectrum, but I’m still on board.

[Dave]

I thought that was ok actually, they handled the issues pretty honestly and the sci-fi/villain elements were kept around the edges so it didn’t feel like too much of a crass clash with the historical stuff.

I had some problems with the shape of the story (like how flimsy the villain’s motivations and plans were, and how bluntly he was despatched in the end – and also how bizarre it was that the Tardis crew had to piece together Rosa’s story like detectives when they could have just used the Tardis to find out the details), but it wasn’t so damaging as to ruin the episode.

Ultimately the talk beforehand about it potentially being like a Quantum Leap episode was on the money. Quite good from an educational point of view for kids – it led to some good conversations about racism and the civil rights movement.

[Unrumble]

> also how bizarre it was that the Tardis crew had to piece together Rosa’s story like detectives when they could have just used the Tardis to find out the details

Well, there was a line of dialogue that went something like

“Why aren’t we going back to the TARDIS?”

“Because that bloke has eyes on it, and we’ll run into him again if we keep going in and out”.

Which seemed kind of invalidated after she then went deliberately looking for him a bit later.

[Pete Part Three]

The Quantum Leap comparison is valid, but specifically the JFK episodes. This got so bogged down in historical accuracy and highlighting real-life drama, that it forgot to innovate some drama of its own.

[si]

Historical Accuracy: Elvis *was* in New York for a publicity photo shoot on December 1st 1955.

[Dave]

But *didn’t* have a mobile phone at the time.

[si]

And, admittedly, wouldn’t have been close enough to Frank Sinatra to lend it to him. In fact, Frank wasn’t a big fan of Elvis, certainly not in 1955.

[Dave]

I trust everyone is reading Andrew Ellard’s notes on the new episodes, anyway – they’ve been very good so far.

[si]

Yes indeed.

[Ridley]

I do wish the writing on the wall hadn’t rubbed off only for the Doctor to realise that she’d used a permanent marker.

(Also wish she had said, in episode 1, that half an hour ago she was a Flying Scotsman.)

[Dave]

I thought Arachnids In The UK was alright, and I thought they judged the scariness about right – a couple of eye-covering moments in our house but nothing too disturbing.

It did feel like it lacked resolution though – some kind of scene to show the spiders definitively being dealt with. It suddenly jumped from the big plan to all the post-story stuff.

Also, all the Trump stuff was a bit on-the-nose. Presumably Noth is coming back later this series?

[Pete Part Three]

15 minutes in, I thought “this is promising”.

30 minutes in, I thought “Maybe something surprising will happen, they’ll be an actual escalation of stakes and this will go somewhere rather than just being a crap version of Aliens”

50 minutes in, it finished.

[Author]

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