Doctor Who – Series 11

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

That is an ending recent Red Dwarf would be proud of. Lure the spiders into a room and lock them in, then we all go home.

The end.

[si]

I can see that maybe the ending was a bit flawed (I had actually forgotten how the story was resolved about 15 minutes after it ended), but that was my favourite episode of the series so far. And Jodie’s Doctor has appeared tonight. We’ve got a definite character to latch onto properly.

[Warbodog]

The most optimistic I can be is that we’ve done most of Chibnall’s episodes now – just next week’s and the finale left. The four in-between are by other writers, which is where my hope lies. That’s just how I felt during most of the RTD era, to be fair.

[Lily]

Well that was a bit underwhelming. I really really don’t like spiders in movies (the Lost in Space metal spiders gave me actual nightmares for weeks) so I had to gear myself up for this episode. I figured Sunday tea-time shouldn’t be too scary though. Unfortunately I’m almost disappointed how un-scary they actually were.

Like Dave said, the Trump stuff was a bit unexpected as well. It was bad enough having a rich American hotel mogul running for president but I was really surprised when they literally name-checked him. Is this the first time Who has mentioned a real life politician? I mean, we’ve had two story lines involving prime-ministers without mentioning real politicians, why bring Trump into it?

As for the spiders, I’m really confused by the Doctors new pro-life policy. Sure, when you have a sentient lifeform that can be communicated with, having a little chat persuading them to bugger off is a nice idea. But these are literal man-eating monsters, I’m sure a previous doctor would have just torched the place and be done with it. The gun thing makes no sense either. Oh yes, let’s leave these spiders in a small room where they’ll starve and cannibalise each other before a slow and painful death. Likewise lets watch this giant spider slowly suffocate to death instead of putting it out of its misery. Oh and we’ll have a nice cosy chat afterwards and clear off, leaving all the other giant spiders roaming round the city, no probs bruv.

[Warbodog]

Obama was in David Tennant’s last episodes, back when people really loved Obama. Capaldi mentioned Trump in one of his last episodes, basically comparing him to the Cybermen as unavoidable shit humanity has to deal with.

If Chibnall is being clever, the high-and-mighty anti-gun tirades here and in episode two (both times where the Doctor’s solution was arguably worse) will be building to her realising a character flaw, similar to when Matt Smith’s Doctor got too cocky and speechy for his boots and was slammed down. Otherwise it’s just wank.

[Seb Patrick]

Is this the first time Who has mentioned a real life politician? I mean, we’ve had two story lines involving prime-ministers without mentioning real politicians, why bring Trump into it?

Ann Widdecombe endorsed The Master for Prime Minister. I’m sure Ken Livingstone got a namecheck when a cab driver was grumbling about traffic in an early RTD one, too.

Also: Churchill, obvs.

[Dave]

It does feel like there’s been so much focus on the anti-gun hypocrisy that it needs to amount to something more.

[Bargain Bin Holly]

Thatcher was referenced in the background in Eccleston’s Father’s Day, but doesn’t really count considering it was a decade after her government I suppose.

[Dave]

If we’re going back that far they had Nixon actually appear in that episode at the start of series 6 where Matt Smith’s Doctor ‘dies’, didn’t they?

[si]

He had Abraham Lincoln in to help with his history report didn’t…oh no, that was Bill and Ted, wasn’t it?

[Lily]

OK so I should have specified current politicians. Historical figures are another thing.

I guess I just don’t current affairs in my sci-fi. Can you imagine Tom Baker’s doctor making snarky comments about Harold Wilson? I’m not a fan of having pop music in episodes either.

Maybe I’m just a grumpy old woman, but maybe if the shows were better written it wouldn’t be so egregious. Sci-fi has always made social and political commentary, but Who is doing it with the subtlety of a brick through the window.

[Hamish]

> I guess I just don’t current affairs in my sci-fi. Can you imagine Tom Baker’s doctor making snarky comments about Harold Wilson?

Well, Helen A in The Happiness Patrol basically was Margaret Thatcher, and that was put out in November 1988.

[Ben Saunders]

Haven’t watched any of it yet for various reasons, but I’m about to dip into episode one now. They’ve managed to go 55 years while only fucking up the casting of the Doctor once (can you guess which time I’m referring to?), so they’ve got a good track record on it thus far, I’m not too worried by that. The writing is much more important and Chris Chibnall has… written episodes before.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

(can you guess which time I’m referring to?)

Give me 14 guesses and I’m sure I’ll get it

[Ben Saunders]

The Woman Who Fell to Earth was absolutely fine. Some very predictable writing as the deaths of the drunk man and the security guard, and the death at the end are all things I saw coming 50,000 miles away. Cringed at opening the new series with a vlog and all the social media references (yikes, this isn’t how you stay relevant to ‘the kids’, people), but I audibly aww’d at the twist regarding who the vlog was about. Whittaker is being written as a sort of Tennant Two, something a lot of us were worried was going to happen, and her performance felt a little forced with the more wacky stuff, but this is only her first episode and I can see her growing into the role – I didn’t like Smith at first either but he quickly became a favourite of mine in his second series. Playing the monster for laughs is almost always a mistake, and I could physically feel the tension being sucked out of the scene when they made fun of his name. I loved the stuff on the cranes, very tense. Monster design was cool I guess. The music is pretty good – I liked Gold but this is a nice change of pace. The show is shot in that way that makes everything look a bit fake via trying to make it look realistic-yet-stylised, and everything is a bit dark. Overall 6.5/10 for that first episode. Nearly hits 7/10 but there are a few moments made me roll my eyes enough to drop the score back down – less Wacky Tennant, please.

“It’s been a long time since I’ve bought women’s clothes” – LOL

[Ben Saunders]

A further note on Whittaker since I forgot to actually say what I liked about her – when she wasn’t being balls-to-the-walls wacky in the car she seemed very childlike in an endearing way, like when she asked to turn the sirens and lights on. I also really liked the sonic building scene and her speech at the end about her family. Bradley Walsh also surprised me by being able to act, the funeral scene was quite nice – although sit the fuck down, Doctor, honestly.

[Ben Saunders]

Oh and don’t quote the main theme in the episode’s incidental music!! Just don’t! They did it in the 80s and it was just as naff then!

[Lily]

>Well, Helen A in The Happiness Patrol basically was Margaret Thatcher, and that was put out in November 1988.

I’ll admit I’ve not seen that one, but from a quick google that it’s basically supporting my point. It may not have been terribly subtle, but it’s still only a caricature with plausible deniability. It’s not like she’s shutting down the mines and stopping free milk for children, or Ace right out saying “oh that Thatcher is a cunt”. (On a side note, wtf is up with the giant Berty Bassett?)

[si]

(On a side note, wtf is up with the giant Berty Bassett?)

People have been asking that for the past thirty years.

[Dave]

I was just the right age to be scared by Kandyman when The Happiness Patrol first went out. To this day I’m not quite sure how.

[Ben Saunders]

The Happiness Petrol is quite good once you get over the high pantomime tone, a leftover from McCoy’s first season. Certainly one of his better ones, if blatantly unsubtle in its anti-Thatcherism. Not to get into politics, but that aspect of it didn’t bother me at all. They certainly knew what they were doing. The whole McCoy era is a bit iffy but that’s a diamond in the rough. Spoilers, McCoy is the one I think was miscast, but I’m aware there are people who will want me hung drawn and quartered for saying so.

[Ben Saunders]

Also once you get over the appearance of the Kandyman. He’s still quite threatening despite looking so ridiculous, but… he died look ridiculous, doesn’t he?

[Warbodog]

Davison’s the odd one out for me. There are some good stories and he’s a good actor, but I can’t see the character continuity there, except maybe right at the end. Which is fine, it doesn’t always have to be the same.

I like Happiness Patrol a lot and enjoyed the grotesque, proto-Mr. Blobby/Bertie Bassett Kandyman for the joke I assumed it was. But I thought the moon-egg was funny too, so what do I know?

[Dave]

I like McCoy because he’s the Doctor I watched as a kid (and I maintain that Remembrance Of The Daleks is one of the best DW stories, despite knowing that it’s partly the nostalgia factor that makes it work for me).

That and Happiness Patrol were two of his most memorable stories, for me.

[Ben Saunders]

Davison was supposed to be completely different, so I guess they managed that. I agree he was a bit of a wet blanket in his first two seasons, but from Frontios onwards, he was absolutely incredible, and totally nailed the character. Luckily, it is his post-Frontios performance that makes it into Big Finish, so he’s great there, too.

[Ben Saunders]

Just reached the Call of Duty part of episode two.
Oh no.
Ohhh nnnoooooo.
Cuh-RINGE.

[Ben Saunders]

That second episode was a bit naff, wasn’t it? And the new TARDIS. And the opening theme. Closing theme is alright, though. Meh.

[Warbodog]

Ghost Light is the only original-run Doctor Who I can remember, when I would have just turned four. Definitely the appropriate age for that one. I didn’t know it was Who (and not T-Bag or something) until I watched again as an adult and remembered being scared by the golden ghost, and animal head busts with glowing red eyes were a feature of my nightmares for years, so might have come from there. Glad I didn’t miss out on childhood Who trauma completely.

[Ben Saunders]

The Rosa episode was a bit dodgy as well. If Grease Lightning can’t get violent, how did he smash up the bus? He was an alright actor, reminded me of Piers Brosnan.
Tosin Cole has very little presence, it’s as if he has has no power behind him, and his lines are often delivered very awkwardly.

>Ending the episode on pop music
Oh, no.
No, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no.

[Ben Saunders]

Ghost Light is incomprehensible drivel and I’m convinced the people who actually like it only do so because they’ve filled in the gaping narrative gaps with the novelisation and the two have become entwined in their memory. There’s some nice stuff with Ace in it, though.

[Ben Saunders]

Arachnids in the UK is like a mediocre, Series 7B kind of episode, which is honestly so refreshing after the shite we’ve been dealt so far this series. The grime music and the plot “resolution” were all fucking dreadful, though, Christ. Lock them all in a room and forget about it? Starving/suffocating to death is a more humane death than a gun to the head?. The politician character was a shitty caricature, the villains this series have all been really two-dimensional and underwhelming, and he was in the right for most of the episode anyway. It isn’t his fault other people caused all these problems, and any sane person would shoot the fuck out of those spiders, I liked the attempts at humanising him through Kevin and when he mourns that other woman. I get what they were going for with that character but he was just so surface level and there was nothing really to him.

Some great character stuff in this episode, love Graham and the line about not being happy the dad said “real family”, but still nothing that really drags it above anything but a 6.

Arachnids > Woman > Rosa > The one about the race

[tombow]

I’ve only seen nu Who, but I’m never sure what to make of regenerations. I’m never sure how much you’re supposed to feel the Dr is the same person with a new face, or a different person with the same spirit/mission.

[Dave]

I like the ambiguity about regeneration, and the way that different Doctors have approached the experience. There are clearly through-lines between different Doctors, but also a sense that a different person has taken over that identity.

It’s one of the reasons why I really liked Matt Smith’s goodbye speech, and the way it used regeneration as a metaphor for how a person grows and changes over the course of their life. “When the Doctor was me.” There was a certain acceptance that it’s a positive and necessary change. Whereas with Tennant and Capaldi there was a real reluctance and resistance there.

I liked the (slightly poetic) way that Whittaker described it in the series opener, actually. Something to do with being reborn but not fully formed and gradually moving towards the new person that you have to become.

[tombow]

another little thing. I rewatched the “day of the Doctor” scene where they freeze his planet, and when Capaldi says “no, all 13” to introduce himself, he sounds English. I wonder if they only decided to use his accent after that scene?

[Dave]

That isn’t his voice, is it? It’s the general on Gallifrey. We only see the attack eyebrows, we don’t hear him at all.

[tombow]

OH – I thought it was him introducing himself…

[Ben Saunders]

Nope, hahaha, it’s the general.

What a moment that was, seeing 12 in DotD. Then seeing 11 phone 12 in Deep Breath. The kind of timey-wimey bullshit only Moffat would give us, and I love him for it. Those and Night of the Doctor are some of the biggest “holy shit” moments I’ve had as a Who fan. Other than that guy getting mulched in Seeds of Doom.

[Dave]

Day Of The Doctor is just great. It’s Doctor Who as a big, epic, self-referential fan-pleasing romp but it works brilliantly.

[Ben Saunders]

Zygon subplot felt a bit like padding but it set up a quite-good two parter for Series 9 so I guess I’ll forgive it. I don’t think DotD is a good episode of Doctor Who but I do think it’s all those other things you said

[si]

I did hope that as Capaldi’s run came to a close, we’d see that ‘All 13!’ from the other side. When he returned to Gallifrey in Hell Bent, I thought we were going to see it…

[Lily]

Going back to series 11, I’m loving Bradley Walsh. The scenes with him talking to Grace in their house were just heartbreaking.

[Dave]

I’m sure Capaldi even teased in an interview that we’d see “all thirteen” again, from his perspective. Ah well.

[Ben Saunders]

With the Heaven Sent/Hell Bent we ended up getting, there’s no real place to put it without it just being a gratuitous fanwank moment that distracts us from the story, so I guess it either got written out or left on the cutting room floor.

And yeah Graham is my favourite thing about Series 11. Yaz is… there, Ryan is an alright character with some dodgy acting, and the Doctor herself……….. exists

[Dave]

I presume there was a vague notion to return to it at some point but a story never presented itself. It’s hard to imagine how to make that moment really interesting again from the other side, given how otherwise uninvolved the Twelfth Doctor is with Day of the Doctor and that we all know how the story played out already.

[Dave]

Random thought: do you think they’ll ever explain how the Doctor fell to earth safely at the start of this series? Or is it simply what it appears to be: one of those “I’ll explain later” moments that will never be referred to again.

[Pete Part Three]

Was there every confirmation that she’d fallen from a considerable distance? The woman “who fell to Earth” was Grace, not the Doctor, so didn’t think there was anything to suggest she’d fallen from a great height, or just jumped in from the roof of the train.

Well, certainly not a greater height than Tennant in The End of Time Part 2.

[Dave]

If you saw the end of ‘Twice Upon A Time’ then you saw how far she fell from.

[Lily]

>do you think they’ll ever explain how the Doctor fell to earth safely at the start of this series

“Still in regeneration”

I’m more confused about the whole ring falling off and Tardis throwing her out thing. I presumed the ring was required to operate the Tardis or something like that, but new Tardis apparently don’t care. There was such focus on the ring it’s got to mean something?

[Warbodog]

I don’t think it was any deeper than her hands being smaller than Capaldi’s. We saw her hands before her face in her original reveal video, and their small size made my wife twig that it was a woman immediately, maybe that shot was a similar clue for viewers who’d managed to remain unspoiled before slowly revealing the face.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think that was just a nice detail to show the physical change.

I wonder if there will ever be an explanation for the Tardis malfunction/explosion. Chibnall seems to leave a lot of loose ends that may or may not ever get followed up.

[Author]

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