Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Doctor Who – Series 11

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  • #239109
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Perhaps Missy’s afterlife thing was all nice and friendly for the first few people she welcome in, but as more and more people started coming in it got worse and worse.

    S9 opener references Genesis of the Daleks and is better if you’re familiar with he and the Doctor’s relationship, but I don’t know if it’s all that important really – I have a friend who thought the episode was great having seen none of the classic series.

    Series 1 or 4 are ones I’d recommend more, but Series 2 is good for the most part. Ten/Rose is a bit much, but many many other people would disagree.

    #239114
    tombow
    Participant

    Yeah, I’m thinking If I go in steeled with the knowledge that the series is a love story between Ten and Rose, I might enjoy it more. I remember even being put off by that first episode where he cured zombies with water guns shooting happiness. I think I’ve seen most of series 1 and 4 – Checking Wiki now – definitely seen all of 1 but of 4, only seen Adipose, Pompeii, Ood, Agatha Christie, and the Library/River episodes – don’t remember any of the others on the list.

    #239121
    si
    Participant

    Just seen the S9 opening Davros 2 parter, loved it

    That was when Capaldi really became the Doctor for me. Thought he was absolutely brilliant.

    #239122
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Wasn’t keen on that 2 parter. It suffered from one of Moffat’s occasional problems: NOTHING IS HAPPENING TO PROGRESS THE PLOT BUT IF WE TALK FAST, CRACK WISE AND BLOW THINGS UP IT WILL MAKE IT SEEM LIKE IT IS.

    (C.f The entire “Doctor is missing” subplot in the opener, the whole of A Good Man Goes to War, Let’s Kill Hitler etc,etc)

    #239123
    tombow
    Participant

    Well, as I’ve just started the series, I’m slightly worried the whole of it is going to be padded like that, with the 2 parters structure. I’m sure I’ll love it though.

    #239125
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    AGMGTW is worth it for the poem and the ending and the conversation with that girl. The doctor is missing stuff felt really weird and unnecessary especially since we’ve already been through this kind of shit before. I guess it sets up the confession dial though? And gives us the Pretty Woman scene which is pretty funny, especially how both Clara and Missy think it’s about them and it’s ambiguous as to who it’s for, their reactions are great

    #239130
    steven87gill
    Participant

    Yeah, I remember at the time that being the first real misfire by Moffat for me. His stuff started to become a lot more hit & miss from that point onward, as if he’d peaked too soon with series 5 & quickly hit writers block.

    If you take all of series 5, & bits n’ bobs from 6-10 , you’ve got the makings of an amazing 4 series + specials.

    #239132
    steven87gill
    Participant

    Yeah I didn’t mean to block quote my own post, but i was trying to reply to this.

    the whole of A Good Man Goes to War, Let’s Kill Hitler etc,etc

    #239165
    Dave
    Participant

    I quite enjoyed Kerblam.

    SPOILERS

    Killer Amazon parcels and weaponised bubble-wrap feels like something from Moffat’s era.

    END SPOILERS

    Plus, the design of the Good Robot Us-es was nicely spooky without being too scary.

    #239166
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Lost interest fairly early on. I think it reminded me most of The Beast Below, and I didn’t have a good time with that episode back in the day.

    It was better than most of the episodes in this series, and it’s relief that the show can still do this kind of campy throwaway stuff that RTD used to stockpile, but it’s not exactly my idea of though-provoking sci-fi.

    #239167
    Nick R
    Participant

    Coincidentally, today my iPlayer rewatch of RTD’s Doctor Who episodes reached The Unicorn and the Wasp, which I finished watching only about 15 minutes before Kerblam! aired. So I appreciated the explicit reference to it in the new episode!

    The first two thirds genuinely fooled me into thinking that it was going to be inspired by the numerous newspaper articles over the last few years about working undercover at AMAZing South American Rainforest’s warehouses, and take the obvious route of having the automated system and/or its human managers rotten to the core and willing to sacrifice people in the name of efficiency. My guess for much of the episode was that the abducted workers were going to be imprisoned in a hivemind or something on the lower Dispatch levels – literalising the repeated phrase a “people-powered company”. And I’d assumed that the HELP ME message would turn out to be a plea from those people’s collective imprisoned subconscious. So I didn’t predict the twist about where the threat really came from.

    I laughed out loud at the bubblewrap reveal. If you’re going to make an everyday substance scary, I think bubblewrap works a lot better than, say, the rheum monsters from Sleep No More!

    I was less keen on the conveyor action sequence and the Kira character.

    Also a couple of Doctor Dwarf comparisons for you: it’s Twirly Toaster and the Tension Sheet!

    #239168
    Dave
    Participant

    I thought of the tension sheet too, but none of the Dwarf links were as great as the Partridge moment.

    “Dan! Dan! Dan! … Dan!”

    #239169
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    The conveyor belt bit reminded me of the Star Wars prequels and I tapped out.

    #239171
    Dave
    Participant

    It was a bit like the droid factory scene wasn’t it? I thought of Toy Story 2 and Monsters Inc.

    #239172
    Warbodog
    Member

    Good stuff, felt very familiar DW but still subverting expectations. Also reminded me of The Beast Below aesthetically, but I like that one too. Bad bubblewrap was the best, always happy when they make everyday things terrifying.

    #239175
    Lily
    Participant

    Not a fan of that one personally. From the start the over excited reaction of when the Kerblam bot turned up was uncomfortable to me. There’s sometimes the feeling that this Doctor is a 12 year old who’s had too much sugar.

    The whole ‘automated company has put all the people out of work’ thing was a pretty low hanging fruit swipe at Amazon complete with objectionable manager. You knew Dan was dead as soon as he got soppy about his little girl (love Lee Mack though), you knew Kira was dead as soon as the Doctor started to protect her.

    Ryan’s dyspraxia bit felt totally shoe-horned in. It was like they recognised that the iminent action sequence was a dumb idea that shouldn’t be possible, so they put a disclaimer beforehand of ‘I have this condition, but I’m going to do this anyway’, like that makes it any better.

    Did anyone else have trouble telling the types of robot apart? It didn’t really occur to me that there were two types, as they all looked the same to me. I will admit I loved the design though, creepy right from the start.

    As much as I loved the twist, it almost feels like it raised more questions than it answered. How was the ‘evil’ manager keep track of disappearances when the HR lady kept saying it’d be impossible to know? Why did Charlie try to kill off Yaz the moment she got there (presuming it was him giving people 999 orders to get picked off by his bots). Finally, since the system could control what the good bots said and did, why didn’t it just -tell- the Doctor what was going on?

    I really wanted to like this one, but it just irritated and annoyed me all the way through.

    #239177
    Dave
    Participant

    Yeah, if it could send a cryptic message to the Doctor there’s no reason why it couldn’t send a clearer message to the human managers, but where would the show be then? An episode short, that’s where.

    #239178
    Dave
    Participant

    I hope this was intentional.

    #239208
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    Think I’ve seen enough of this series to begin forming an opinion and it’s… mixed.

    Once you get past the hype of the female Doctor thing (which has worked and not been that big a deal), I can’t find much more to talk about. This series is… fine. It’s just so achingly unambitious. I can’t fault Whittaker’s performance nor can I praise it that much. I can’t say much on the episodes because there isn’t much to say. I don’t love it, I don’t hate it. A strange feeling. Particularly after so many years of Moffat, where I *always* at least had something to say about the episodes. For example, I love Heaven Sent and I despise Hell Bent, but at least there’s something to say about it. But I feel guilty because I feel I’m being unfair. It’s definitely going down the populist route which I completely approve of. Moffat’s era had become too inaccessible.

    But surely some real jeopardy would help with things. But it’s a new team getting started. I’m hopeful that things will get better and better.

    #239209
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    Oh, love the theme tune, love the title sequence. The TARDIS interior will grow on me.

    #239210
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Kerblam! would have been a decent run-of-the-mill mid-series episode in any other series, and is therefore one of the better episodes of this one.

    #239220
    NoFro
    Participant

    I like the new opening sequence/theme in isolation but I don’t feel that they suit the tone of this season at all.

    #239224
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Kerblam! was alright, I agree with Symes. Tinges of The Greatest Show In The Galaxy (post-bot delivers to the TARDIS), The Sun Makers (capitalism planet), The Robots of Death (take a guess) and even The Armageddon Factor (characters on a conveyor belt about to be incinerated).

    I really liked the Kerblam 1.0 robot, it was cute, Lee Mack was much better in this than he is in Not Going Out but wasn’t really given much to do. Tosin still cannot act and Jodie still comes off a bit CBBC.

    I liked how the Doctor was wrong to suspect the evil boss man trope, that was a nice subversion. The little romance was yeugh. Killing the dude was brutal and Yaz wanting to give the necklace to Lee’s daughter was touching.

    I liked the Doctor’s “it’s not the system, it’s the people abusing the system” speech a lot because I agree with it (mostly), but I’ve seen some people criticise it as pro-capitalism (no comment on whether being pro-capitalism is a bad thing)

    #239225
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Oh, is it just me or is Ryan’s dyspraxia dealt with in a sort of… condescending way? “I can’t do it/yes you can” (he does it) doesn’t seem very realistic and a bit like telling somebody with depression to just cheer up

    #239249
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I was reminded of The Sun Makers too, but without the villain that looks like Iain Duncan Smith or people gleefully throwing someone off a tall building.

    #239252
    Dave
    Participant

    Apparently Amazon Prime in the US have leaked next week’s episode ahead of time, running it in place of *Kerblam!* by mistake.

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/11/amazon-accidentally-leaked-next-weeks-doctor-who-episode/

    At least it’s not only Red Dwarf that has these problems.

    #239262
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Doesnt really matter what episode they leak when a series mostly feels like youve seen it all before. Glad some casual viewers, female veiwers, new viewers and more are enjoying the lightness of what the shows become. I see ratings are up, it’s all nicely shot and i still love jodie Whitaker who i liked in Good vibrations and a few other shows/films before Dr who. She’s a bit tenant bit davison, I believe she is the dr, no issue. But then i didnt mind romana in dr who, or the sarah jane adventures which this show is now mostly like.

    setting the show in a space warehouse, i got echoes of paradise towers, and as i work in warehousing
    found it the dullest dr who ever committed to screen. Not least because it has things that fucking teleport it in, yet you still need convayer belts moving stuff around, what a stupid load of wank.

    Si who else was in hyper drive, who and dwarf? which certainly isnt a holy trinity. its an akward threesome.

    #239266
    si
    Participant

    Maggie Service was in Doctor Who: Deep Breath, played Rachel in Samsara, and was assorted voices in Hyperdrive. Now we’ve got Kevin Eldon joining the club.

    #239271
    tombow
    Participant

    It’s just occured to me that it really is like ..a stereotypical Yorkshire/northen DW series. Like, slow paced, gentle, Sunday evening..like it’s Heart Beat gone sci fi. And the Dr is a cross between Victoria Wood and Mork.

    #239275
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Maggie Service was in Doctor Who: Deep Breath, played Rachel in Samsara, and was assorted voices in Hyperdrive. Now we’ve got Kevin Eldon joining the club.

    And with this I realise it’s a scandal that Morwenna Banks has never been in Doctor Who.

    #239277
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    I really hope that these rumours about Chibnall and Whittaker aren’t true. There’s a huge amount of potential in the new team and it would seem such a shame if they don’t get at least three series for the 13th Doctor.

    #239278
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    A bit like the Red Dwarf 1-VI ‘bubble,’ I like to think of the first seven Doctors (and, at a pinch, number eight) as existing in their own little bubble. I love 21st Century Doctor Who, but I grew up watching the classic series, and it’s untouchable (even the bad bits!).

    #239279
    bloodteller
    Participant

    I checked out the first episode of this out of boredom, and honestly I thought it was a bit rubbish. I’m not really into Doctor Who that much (except the movie with Paul McGann, that’s great) so I don’t really know what I was expecting, but it was all a bit off. The villain being called Tim Shaw for some reason was weird and then they sort of try to make a joke of it but don’t, the weird emphasis on the Doctor saying “You had no right do do that” when the construction worker with self-esteem issues kicks Tim off the edge of the crane,and the dialogue throughout just felt really unnatural. That said, I did like the twist of Ryan’s v-log at the beginning of the episode actually being about his grandma, rather than the Doctor as you’re led to expect. All in all though, didn’t really settle with me, although I didn’t really expect it to going in so that might have soured my opinion of it

    I’d totally watch it if they bring back Chang Lee though

    #239281
    Warbodog
    Member

    ‘Tim Shaw’ was a deflating anglicisation of his similar-sounding, generically alien name. I liked the gag, but just realised it’s the same as someone “hilariously” mispronouncing an Asian person’s name. And the equally generic name and design of his species were played straight.

    #239283
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    His name wasn’t actually Tim Shaw?! I thought it was. Also thought making fun of his name at that moment completely deflated all tension in the way many people on here complain about making fun of the villains in Dwarf

    #239284
    Warbodog
    Member

    Apparently Tzim-Sha. If those aliens return, as their namedrop in episode 2 suggests, I expect they’d reprise it. “I am Kree’grott.” “Craig Rudd?”

    #239285
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Is it too late to ask them not to?

    #239287
    Dave
    Participant

    I enjoyed it tonight. A decent plot, some good historical stuff and some genuinely quite scary baddies – there was a fair bit of eye-covering and “tell me when this bit has finished” in our house.

    (And that was just me etc.)

    #239288
    si
    Participant

    Tonight’s was an absolute cracker. Loved it.

    #239289
    Dave
    Participant

    Alan Cumming gave *exactly* the kind of performance you want from a guest-star. Loads of fun.

    #239290
    NoFro
    Participant

    It’s actually getting to be quite funny that every episode since Chibnall stopped penning has been really quite good.

    #239291

    I said last week that Kerblam was exactly what you want from a Doctor Who episode, and this week was exactly the same.

    I even think for the first time the pacing was right, I was bored, the mystery unfolded hitting beats at all the right time. There wasn’t really anything superfluous going on. Team Tardis all got involved and had stuff to do.

    The aliens were intriguing, though I wish we had a little more from them as to their history, why they were in that prison etc rather than just guess work from the Doctor.

    And it would have been nice if the Doctor had tried to do a little more than lock them back in their prison. Like, remove them from the planet entirely and get them out of that hill so they don’t potentially pose a danger to anyone else in the future.

    Speaking of which, how many aliens or other species have been living underground in the earth for as long as it has existed now?

    The Racnoss

    Silurian

    This weeks lot (forget their name now, Mortocks?)

    Oh, and Alan Cumming was great – the most memorably of the guest characters this series I think.

    #239292
    si
    Participant

    Pretty much what I thought.
    My Tweet just after it ended:

    They got that bang on tonight, for me. Good story, nice plot, well paced. Plenty of wit without being stupid, well-realised alien menace, with something decent for everyone to do. Great stuff. #DoctorWho

    #239293
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I’ve just started it and I can’t get this feeling of “I fucking hate Doctor Who” out of my mind, I’m having trouble paying attention because my expectations are so low I feel like if I give it the time of day it will only disappoint me. Here’s hoping I’ve changed my tune 50 minutes from now.

    #239294
    Warbodog
    Member

    Perfect historical setting for the Doctor’s gender to make a difference – which you don’t want to overdo, but needed to happen this year – but I don’t think they made the most of that. She’s been tied to stakes and accused of that stuff before when she looked like Tom Baker anyway. It was fine, but I was quite bored.

    #239295
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    That was shite. What have they done to Doctor Who?

    They must have spent a fortune constantly replacing the scenery for this episode with Alan Cumming chewing it all to fucking bits. Bit OTT, for me. He’s Scottish, isn’t he, but so am I and I’ve never heard that accent before. What is that supposed to be?
    Why is the Doctor of all people surprised the 1700s is a bit shit for women? You could say she’s never been a woman before so never had to deal with it, but then she wasn’t black either and was still aware of racism in Alabama in the 50s. She would know, and really stuff like this should have come up all the time with companions in the past.
    The villain’s voice was lame.
    The granddaughter smiling as she delivered her “it’s not me I swear” line was super odd, another take maybe.

    What is WITH The Doctor being so strange with getting angry at the person who kicked the monster she just BLEW UP off a crane and the King torching the “witch”, and with her highly questionable method of dealing with those spiders? Is this going to pay off in the finale with her getting her shit flung back at her or is it just consistently bad writing?

    This is the first episode ever where I’ve genuinely considered just not coming back next week.

    Graham is still the only good thing about this series, along with some, but not all, of the music. Tosin better take some acting lessons if he’s coming back for the next series.

    People in the past were thick, weren’t they? The drowning test for witches is just bonkers, but I guess that actually happened so it’s not exactly a criticism of the show.

    “Would you prefer a hanging?”
    … Yeah, isn’t drowning worse than hanging?

    >She’s been tied to stakes and accused of that stuff before when she looked like Tom Baker anyway
    Yeah that line about “if I was a bloke everybody would believe me” just had me thinking pffff, are you sure? Do you not remember, for example, Black Orchid?

    #239300
    tombow
    Participant

    I think Alan Cumming’s accent was possibly meant to be an authentic 1700s accent – there’s been some stuff on TV recently on how linguists are figuring out how people sounded then, based on the word patterns and rhymes in stuff like Shakespeare’s poems and plays. Kind of precise English crossed with Yorkshire crossed with modern day rural american.

    incidentally – I’ve never understood why people complained about stuff like, Kevin Costner in Robin Hood. I believe it’s a lot more possible that a middle ages outlaw would have sounded like Kevin Costner than, Patrick Stewart say. (not that we would have understood them anyway)

    #239301
    tombow
    Participant

    oh, I just saw the Girl Who Died/ Woman Who Lived for the first time. Wow, I think that competes with Silence in the Library for my favourite nu Who episodes. Not looking forward to the Zygons ones next though. The trailer looks like Sontaran Stratagem which were my least favorite episodes. I least, I think they were, I can’t really remember them. At least the Osgoods are going to be in this one.

    #239302
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I really disliked Girl Who Died but thought Woman Who Lived made up for it, it was a nice slow one with some haunting ruminations on the curse of immortality, after a noncey jape of an episode I didn’t care for. I also remember the Zygon two-parter actually being quite good, basically making up for the unnecessary inclusion of the Zygons in Day of the Doctor which just felt tacked on, at the time.

    #239303
    Dave
    Participant

    “Noncey jape”?

    #239304
    Warbodog
    Member

    The Zygon episodes were kind of the inversion of the ‘Human Nature’ two-parter for me – when I first realised I actually cared about this show and wasn’t just watching for the hell of it (followed immediately by ‘Blink’ that sealed the deal).

    I felt out of touch with the consistently rave reviews series 9 was getting, calling it the best ever. There’s only one episode I thought was that good. But we all have our disproportionately beloved eras and styles.

    #239305
    tombow
    Participant

    I just watched the end of New Earth (early Tennant episode with hospital zombies) on youtube – I thought he filled up a water gun with the cure and ran around spraying it, instead of just putting it into a sprinkler? I’m sure I remember a scene like that. Maybe I’m remembering something else.

    #239306
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Mandela effect, clearly.

    I didn’t rate Series 9 that highly either, outside of the first two and last three episodes. The zygon episode was decent but not outstanding I thought, the one with the deaf girl was boring, and I can’t remember the other ones. Oh there was Sleep No More… an episode which if it appeared in this current season would be a highlight…. but was in the top 5 worst New Whos before then

    I don’t know where noncey jape came from but I stand by it.

    #239307
    Warbodog
    Member

    I don’t react out loud very much to TV, even in company – just laugh, groan, voice approval. But when I realised what was going on in that series 9 episode that I don’t want to spoil for tombow, I went mental, shouting and pacing the room. The magnitude!

    Other things I’ve had strong reactions to include ‘Trojan’ – the euphoria of new Red Dwarf being good! – and the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field – dude.

    #239308
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    POLY MORPH

    The crew enter into an open sexual relationship with a plasticine man.

    #239309
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Shit, posted that in the wrong thread.

    #239311
    Hamish
    Participant

    > The crew enter into an open sexual relationship with a plasticine man.

    Next weeks episode leaked, obviously.

    #239312
    Lily
    Participant

    Just got around to watching this week. Good period stuff, interesting mystery, interesting witch finding stuff, whole team feeling useful, it was on the whole a really good episode. Loved Alan Cumming hamming it up as King James.

    Until the shouty alien turned up. Then it all got rather silly. I’m not a fan of the whole shouting to make things scary. I’d rather be scared by actions, not volume of voice.

    Out of interest, are the writers this year all new to Who?

    #239313
    tombow
    Participant

    according to IMDB, yeah, none of them have written who before

    #239326
    Ridley
    Participant

    60% of the episodes have been penned by someone who has written for the show before.

    Or had Who forgotten?

    #239327
    tombow
    Participant

    Other than Chibbers though?

    #239328
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I mean yeah Chibnall hired all new writers but he isn’t a new writer himself. New directors I think also. And producer, etc.

    #239332
    Lily
    Participant

    Well yes, I did mean other than Chibnall. If everyone else is new though, that might help explain that feeling of “almost, but not quite” that I’m getting on every episode. Would certainly be a reason why so often the alien of the weekend feels a little crowbarred into a story that didn’t need one had it not been Doctor Who.

    What determines a show as a success though; the quantity of the general public watching it, or the opinions of the fans?

    #239333
    tombow
    Participant

    according to the internet “many credible rumors” say that JW and CC are going to move on next year after a 6 episode half series. Be interesting to see if this comes about. Personally I’d like to see JW come into the role for longer.

    #239334
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    If that rumour is true, my disappointment with Chibnall will turn into actual anger. Takes a year off to make the series as good as possible, it ends up being shite, slashes the number of episodes to ten because it’s too hard, most likely seeing a precedent going forward. Then (if the rumours are true) slashes the number of episodes to a measly six and fucks off right after. I would be livid. Everybody else managed to do thirteen episodes of varying quality and if we get six shite ones I’ll wonder why he even bothered taking the job in the first place.

    But hopefully that won’t transpire and I’ll just continue to be disappointed

    #239335
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Regarding what counts as success: definitely general popularity against actual quality (in the eyes of fans). Most people who call themselves fans that I know of loved the Capaldi era but the general feeling I get from the public is that it was a failure. Than of course you have many shows with strong but small fanbases (Star Trek, Firefly, Chuck) getting cancelled because nobody watched the (quality) episodes. Instead we’re on to the seventh season of The Walking Dead.

    #239336
    bloodteller
    Participant

    And the fourteenth season of Supernatural

    #239337
    Warbodog
    Member

    Back in the Red part 1 got over 8 million viewers and that’s the best episode of Red Dwarf, so sometimes it can be both.

    #239338
    Warbodog
    Member

    I don’t really know what the Audience Appreciation Index is, but the general public thought fan favourite Heaven Sent was among the five worst episodes of Nu Who (series 1-10) and they love Dalek finales the best (the ace library two-parter is also near the top, so they’re not complete simpletons).

    #239339
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >the general public thought fan favourite Heaven Sent was among the five worst episodes of Nu Who
    Now, I’m not the type to ever use the word “plebs”, but if I ever had to….
    Heaven Sent has, I think, the highest IMDB score of all Doctor Whos ever, alongside Blink and Caves of Androzani, so there’s that at least.

    #239341

    I really can’t see that rumour being true … the BBC would be just as pissed at him as fans would be. And wouldn’t he be contracted for at least two or three series so a potential new show runner couldn’t do what has been rumoured?

    Also, last I heard, he had a 5 year plan for the show … which, if 5 year plans for other shows are anything to go by will mean it will start out a bit shit, start to get really good and then be cancelled before it can be finished

    #239342
    Dave
    Participant

    The way things have been lately, a five-year plan could end up only being two-and-a-half series.

    #239343
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    The five year plan could include cancelling it in the second year

    #239344
    Lily
    Participant

    The 5 year plan only included 3 series anyway, with 18 month gaps. But because this series has done so well on Sunday nights, the BBC now want a series every year. But Chibnall doesn’t want to do that much, so is going to half-arse one for them next year then fuck off, with Whittaker going with him.

    Allegedly.

    #239359
    tombow
    Participant

    Got the Missy stories book out of the library and enjoying it

    #239382
    Dave
    Participant

    Forever to be known as “the talking frog one”.

    #239383
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    And it was doing so well at identifying itself as “the actually good sci-fi drama one”. OK, it wasn’t amazingly original but the execution was sharp and it was holding my attention when so much of this series has had me lose interest shy of the twenty minute mark.

    And then there was the scene with the frog.

    I’ll let them off though, as when the camera focused on the carving on the wall at the finale, I was back on board. More like this, PLEASE.

    #239384
    NoFro
    Participant

    The frog was great. The episode was great.

    #239385
    Dave
    Participant

    Oh, I liked the frog and quite enjoyed the episode in general.

    The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.

    It made me think another twist was coming and she was going to be revealed as wrong about what was going on.

    #239386
    NoFro
    Participant

    Also, I couldn’t help but think of the Kochanski/Lister stuff from Back to Earth during this one.

    #239387
    si
    Participant

    The Frog could have been so much better even if they’d only CGI’d the mouth to give it the ability to form words. That’s all it needed. A bit of a polish, maybe, but just the mouth would’ve been fine.
    The episode itself though was intriguing. Some crazy ass shit going on in there. Looked great. The ‘cave’ was wonderfully atmospheric.

    #239388
    Warbodog
    Member

    That was probably my favourite episode since 2015, weird incongruous frog climax and all.

    I lasted almost nine episodes before having a Thirteenth Doctor erotic dream, how did you do?

    #239389
    Warbodog
    Member

    The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.

    “Best guess,”

    #239390
    Stephen Abootman
    Participant

    TV needs more Kevin Eldon on it.

    #239393

    What a shit show. Literally.

    OP should have added the poo icon to the title like Jawscvmcdia.

    Rest the series and give us some movies.

    #239394
    Warbodog
    Member

    Jawscvmcdia’s new forum flair is the most significant Red Dwarf event of 2018.

    #239395
    Warbodog
    Member

    …which was a jab at the lack of 30th anniversary merchandise and not the massive Dimension Jump event. Feel free to flair me appropriately.

    #239399

    The Frog could have been so much better even if they’d only CGI’d the mouth to give it the ability to form words. That’s all it needed. A bit of a polish, maybe, but just the mouth would’ve been fine.

    I do wonder if it’s just the mouth that spoiled it for some people. A CGI mouth would be one solution, albeit possibly too expensive and time consuming to do well.

    If I’d been the director, my inclination would’ve been to film a real frog against green screen, and just have an echoey reverb on the voice, to suggest it was communicating telepathically.

    Admittedly, this wouldn’t satisfy the viewers who were upset by the camp silliness of the image of a sentient universe manifesting as a talking frog on a chair… but those people are probably watching the wrong show.

    #239402
    Lily
    Participant

    Well that was a bit bloody brilliant. Even the frog.

    OK so the Doctor pulled the explanation for what’s going on out of her arse a bit, but in all honesty that’s almost a feature of Who anyway. I can totally live with that.

    Everything else was just great! We’ll have more of that thank you very much.

    #239541
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Everything to do with Graham was excellent, there was a genuine mystery set up, things were generally at least a little interesting… but again, Tosin Cole can’t act, the dialogue is abhorrent and the whole thing is just a bit amateurish. It’s written like a Big Finish audio play – the characters announce what they see a lot, when several scenes this episode could have been accomplished in a much more effective and engaging way with little to no dialogue. Show, don’t tell.

    Talking frog was just too silly and took the wind out of my enjoyment of the episode. It’s the way it comes out of nowhere, has the nan’s voice and the mouth doesn’t move properly, and especially how it does that stupid hand movement when it uses the force to push the Doctor back (to where, might I add, the mirror was long gone).

    I’m fine with camp in Who, but it was tonally off for what they were trying to do and the campness wasn’t properly established earlier on, it’s a total shift of mood and turns what could have been a pretty powerful scene ridiculous. I’m reminded of Meglos, in which the villain was A Cactus, but at least in that we’re introduced pretty early on to the villain being a cactus and it is initially played for laughs before then showing us it’s all a bit more sinister than we give it credit for. It’s still pretty silly, though.

    So much of the dialogue in that episode was genuinely annoying, with the “hey look, an x”, the sheep wars, seven grans, the Doctor eating the soil to find out where she is, etc. The latter could maybe have worked with better comedic timing/delivery, but even similar stuff that happened in the Capaldi era annoyed me as well.

    What’s frustrating about this episode in particular is that it was almost amazing – take the concept of a parallel world created by an ancient entity to lure people in with the memories of their dead loved ones, and you could create an incredible Star Trek script, or an incredible Doctor Who script were it not edited by Chris Chibnall, and if Yaz had been completely excised from it. Three companions is too many companions.

    #239542
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.
    The Doctor giving us her impression of Kryten, there.

    #239544

    On the subject of Tosin not being able to act, I know someone that knows him. She ran script writing workshops that he attended so she got to work with him in an acting/drama environment for quite a while.

    After the first episode she asked me how he did, and I said something along the lines of he’s ok, but his accent is shocking.

    Her response was that she cannot fathom why they’d cast Tosin if the role required him doing a northern accent, because accents were always his weakness.

    Even now she has seen him in the show she’s doesn’t quite get it, role just isn’t for him.

    I actually quite like the character, and Tosin is generally ok, it’s just when he speaks it all falls apart

    #239545
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Is that not his real accent? That might explain a lot, because he sounds so monotone and… mindless, when speaking. It’s like he’s really not engaged with the material. Phoning it in, reading off an idiot board for an easy paycheck. I guess the character is alright, but the acting prevents me from thinking I like him, and neither him nor Yaz are really given all that much to do – get rid of one of them so that you have more time to develop either of them.

    #239546
    Berlin
    Member

    I suspect Doctor Who will go under quite a significant re-tooling next year.

    Bin everyone bar Jodie and Bradley and get back to some fucking adventuring, instead of this season’s worth of smack you around the head social commentary.

    #239560
    si
    Participant

    I think the awful accent might well affect the acting. I’m sure he’s a perfectly fine actor, but the fact he’s trying hard and failing to do an anywhere *near* convincing Sheffield accent, coupled with the fact that Ryan never really seems to have a great deal to do, or have decent dialogue…well, it detracts from any actual acting going on there.
    If it weren’t for the fact that his story is almost inextricably linked to Graham’s, I’d drop him off and leave him with his dad for a bit.

    #239561
    Lily
    Participant

    Ryan has called him grandad now. We just need the fist bump next week and we’re done with Ryan.

    Unfortunately I suspect we’re more likely to lose Walsh at the end of the season, as he seems far more likely to be a ‘one season and done’ kinda companion. If Chibnall and Whittaker do leave then we’ll get her and the remaining 2 companions in next year’s half arsed season and then starting all from scratch again.

    #239566
    Berlin
    Member

    Bloody Colin Baker era all over again.

    I do smell assassination around Chibnall though. It’s almost tradition to whinge about the Who show-runner within the fan community but he is particularly ham-fisted with Whittaker’s crop of stories.

    #239569
    Warbodog
    Member

    I feel defensive about Nu Nu Who now, because I loved that last one (thanks, Ed Hime) and think the other guest-written episodes have been as good as the average guest-written ones we’ve always had – i.e. fine filler. But all the criticisms are correct and it’s clearly Chibnall’s fault.

    #239578
    steven87gill
    Participant

    I’m trying to remain positive here because even if the show isn’t to my tastes I want it to do well, & even though 4 million have turned out since the premiere, viewing figures are still respectable (although the fact there’s been a consistent & steady drop in almost every episode is a cause for concern)

    For the first few weeks there seemed to be real momentum & dare I say some zeitgeist again, but my gut says that Chibbers may have blown it & we’ll be back to average viewing figures next series. It’s frustrating because the world was watching & this was the shows last big chance to return to a mass audience & we won’t get another shot like this in my lifetime.

    #239579
    Berlin
    Member

    The revived era was a fluke, a well deserved fluke but one nonetheless. I suspect the BBC saw it lasting five years and then either being quietly leased off to an American production company or going back into the vaults after they figure out another Who-esque show to scare the children with. The worldwide popularity and new generation of fans that appeared through it was beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and the culmination of it all with the 50th anniversary special really was an indicator who how far it had come from being just another dreary old serial your dad watched to a touchstone in modern television culture.

    The Whittaker era should’ve took it back into the stratosphere but it hasn’t and why? The writing, the club around the head social commentary and the distinct lack of adventure and eccentric daftness that we do very well.

    Either Chibnall goes and they re-tool or they spend the 2019 season making nod and wink promises to everyone that it’s gonna be back to what we know and like best for 2020 and they can’t afford to lose viewers or long-term appeal through that.

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