Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Game of Thrones – Season 3

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  • #206469
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    The old thread is long since buried, so we may as well start afresh. To kick things off, HOLY CRAP THIS IS AN AWESOME TRAILER.

    Drogon flying next to the ship is brilliant and all, but as awesome images go, nothing can beat this:

    #206471
    Ridley
    Participant

    BRING ON THE WALL!

    #206482
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    BRING ON THE WALL!

    This is very strong.

    By the way, if anyone watching this season wants to know what I plan to look like in 20 years, then it is Tormund Giantsbane (pictured above).

    #206483
    Blisschick
    Participant

    I haven’t seen any of this series yet, but it is on my summer to-do list. I’ve been told I’ll be sorry if I don’t.

    #206502
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Same here. I’ve also been told I should read the books first. True?

    #206512
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Same here. I’ve also been told I should read the books first. True?

    I’d say it’s entirely down to your own preference. I watched the first season and then devoured all the books. I found the slightly abridged version of the story in the TV show was a good introduction before getting the full monty from the books, but your experience may differ.

    #206551
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    The books have more detail and go into aspects of the story that are glossed over in the show due to time. They’re both quite different experiences and are both worth checking out- though I wouldn’t say you have to read the book to understand the show.

    #206552
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    though I wouldn’t say you have to read the book to understand the show.

    I’d say this is definitely true of season 1, but I did feel season 2 was relying on book knowledge a little too much. This might be because of the fact I read the books before season 2 and not season 1, but I think some aspects failed. For example, I would’ve had no fucking idea that Stannis was supposed to have escaped the battle of the Blackwater, because in the show they make it look like he’s been captured, making the fact you next see him back on Dragonstone a little confusing.

    The biggest thing that the show lacks ~(and perfectly understandably) is the huge chunks of history you get i the books. Almost everything that happens in the story is put into context against things that have happened in the past, plus you get a much better idea of how the characters feel because all the chapters are from their POV.

    On the other hand, the TV show has Tormund GIantsbane climbing the Wall, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

    #206560
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    Certainly, those are issues- I would put the Stannis surviving issue to just those scenes not being presented right, but oh well. The books being from a POV also mean that they’re heavily biased towards the view of the narrator, which makes for interesting reading between the lines.

    #206570
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Yep, there are loads of theories all based on the idea that certain events could be suffering from unreliable narrator syndrome.

    #206575
    pfm
    Participant

    My guess is they just couldn’t find room for it, and we know that they try not to shoot anything other than exactly what they need. Who knows, there may be some kind of flashback in season 3.

    I’d recommend the books to anyone! Though, after Storm of Swords, things get a little…muddy. Still great, but I get the feeling that this is where the HBO series is going to come into it’s own by seriously tightening up Martin’s storytelling. When you read around 500 pages and literally nothing’s happened you know there’s something wrong somewhere…;)

    #206744
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I loved the pace of the last two books. It helps that I don’t think the Greyjoys and Martells as boring as some do, though.

    In other news, there’s a new season 3 trailer, and it’s very good. They’re really playing up Drogon – I hope they’ve sunk some serious money into making sure we see plenty more of the dragons this year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R4XSeW4B5Rg

    #206823
    NoFro
    Participant

    This is brilliant:

    Think I’ll be waiting for the blu ray to watch Season Three. Ah well… only a year to go.

    #206844
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I’m hooked. I had too little time to read through the books first, but I binged on the first two series and DVD extras for the past 10 days, and am now indulging in the first book.

    My only mild regret about watching the show first is I get jolted out of the world of the book every time I’m reminded that the kids are younger in the books than in the show, especially Robb. The other differences don’t have that effect on me. But it’s worth it to be able to enjoy season three with you all.

    #206855
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I’m hooked. I had too little time to read through the books first, but I binged on the first two series and DVD extras for the past 10 days, and am now indulging in the first book.

    Hurrah!

    My only mild regret about watching the show first is I get jolted out of the world of the book every time I’m reminded that the kids are younger in the books than in the show, especially Robb.

    Yep, this is a weird one. One of the best decisions the show’s made was ageing up the characters, if just for the fact that it allowed them to get the amazing cast they ended up with. Somehow I can’t see a 9 year old actress being at all suitable for Ayra, and the less said about Dany’s wedding night the better…

    #206874
    Ridley
    Participant

    Unsatisfying resolution to the Season 2 ending. :|

    #206875
    Rad
    Participant

    I really want to watch this series but I don’t think I can watch Sean Bean die again.

    #206876
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    >Unsatisfying resolution to the Season 2 ending. :|

    Are you talking about the White Walker army?

    >I really want to watch this series but I don’t think I can watch Sean Bean die again.

    I feel your pain, I really do, but if George Martin kills a character, I can’t really fault Weiss/Benioff for sticking to the books and killing him too. However, I read an article in which they said they may decide to kill off someone that Martin didn’t, because it serves the arc of the show. If they do this, and especially if it is a major character, it had better be masterfully written or they will make a lot of people very angry.

    #206877
    Ridley
    Participant

    Are you talking about the White Walker army?

    Yarp.

    #206882
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Hmm. I wasn’t really expecting much of a resolution there because the ending felt too huge and awesome to be the type of cliffhanger that gets resolved in the next episode. If the dead guy on the horse had actually attacked Sam, then yes. But it just felt more like, check out the sheer expanse and grotesqueness of this army of zombies.

    #206894
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Hmm. I wasn’t really expecting much of a resolution there because the ending felt too huge and awesome to be the type of cliffhanger that gets resolved in the next episode. If the dead guy on the horse had actually attacked Sam, then yes. But it just felt more like, check out the sheer expanse and grotesqueness of this army of zombies.

    Yeah, I didn’t mind the cop out too much. The show always picks and chooses what battles to show, and half the time it’s more interesting to see the aftermath, rather than the battle itself. The big Stark / Lannister skirmish in season 1 is a good example.

    In general I loved this episode, especially considering it had quite a lot of setting up to do. The only thing I’m worried that they might’ve fucked up is the reveal of Barristan Selmy at the end – there was absolutely no room to adequately explain exactly *why* he sought out Dany, because in the show it was only ever very briefly mentioned in season 1 that he used to serve the Targaryens before Robert’s rebellion.

    #206897
    Ridley
    Participant

    I don’t mind their skipping the battle but I don’t think it’s particularly clear what happened nor how desperate the situation is. Just needed more impact is all.

    #206900
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I don’t mind their skipping the battle but I don’t think it’s particularly clear what happened nor how desperate the situation is. Just needed more impact is all.

    Agreed. That’s probably the show’s biggest problem – it lacks the proper context for some of the more important story points because there’s no natural way to cram in a load of exposition. That said, I *think* more light will be shed on what happened later on.

    #206909
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    > The only thing I’m worried that they might’ve fucked up is the reveal of Barristan Selmy at the end – there was absolutely no room to adequately explain exactly *why* he sought out Dany, because in the show it was only ever very briefly mentioned in season 1 that he used to serve the Targaryens before Robert’s rebellion.

    Jaime Lannister also mentioned in season two that he squired for Selmy, confusing things even more.

    I think for those who don’t remember who he is, it still works as a reveal to Dany that someone on Westeros does indeed remember the Targaryens and wants them back in power, which answers one of her fears.

    #206957
    Ridley
    Participant

    It’s the Westerosi comedy hour and I’m feeling fine.

    #206999
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    A person I know at work is watching the show and is really enthusiastic about it. It’s nice chatting to him about it and listening to his theories about where certain characters are going (since he hasn’t read the books, and I have). He’s really curious about “that guy who’s helping Greyjoy”, and I’m not telling him anything that would ruin the surprise for him.

    #207006
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Yeah, I’m in the same boat as your friend because some of my friends have read all the books and I’m 2/3 through the first one. It’s weird that there are two subsets of fans who experience the show in completely different ways, and it sometimes makes discussion frustrating on my end. Also, next week I will have to start taking notes because I’m starting to lose track of all the plotlines.

    Last night they sniggered when I said, “I guess there won’t be a Mormont reunion like I was hoping.”

    #207043
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Only just got round to watching this episode, but fucking hell was it worth it. I think this might be my favourite episode of the show so far. Obviously there’s DAENERYS FUCKING STORMBORN finally being amazing on almost every level, but there was tonnes of great dialogue, especially with the Queen of Thorns. She’s basically kicking everyone’s arse. ALSO, tonnes of references to the deposed Targaryens, which was very pleasing.

    Shame Beric was a bit crappy, though. Oh, and they ever so slightly fucked up the mutiny at Craster’s Keep, but that’s mainly because I wanted Mormont to have a bit more of a dignified death :(

    #207058
    Ridley
    Participant

    ‘Nother great episode. Which is nice.

    #207071
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I can’t decide which husband would be the least worst for Sansa.

    #207250
    Ridley
    Participant
    #207251
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I’ve never felt so stereotyped as reading that article. Was it supposed to be funny?

    #207253
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    That article is the hugest amount of crap. I listen to a lot of Game of Thrones podcasts and the hosts are pretty much 50% / 50% male and female.

    Worthless shite.

    #207256
    Jo
    Participant

    The “girl” who wrote that article is an utter cunt. Don’t worry, she’ll never read this – she herself says that she’s so easily confused she can’t follow a TV show. Also she doesn’t like gross things, or geeks or naked people or gross things. She does like Don Draper though, he’s like so totally dreamy!

    *VOMITS EVERYWHERE*

    #207271
    Ridley
    Participant

    …pretty much 50% / 50% male and female.

    It’s also a 50/50 split amongst both my friends.

    #207294
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I watched “Bear and the Maiden Fair” having missed the previous one. Luckily for me, it was almost entirely character development rather than action. The slower pace was just what I needed. I love the character of Osha and was especially grateful for more of her back story.

    And I didn’t lose a single plot line, thank you very much Renata.

    #207304
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Yeah, the last two episodes have been fairly quiet, and I’ve liked them a lot (although a good deal of the internet begs to differ). Jamie and Brienne / The Brotherhood & Arya are my two favourite storylines this year and they’ve had lots of love, so I’m happy.

    Out of interest, has anyone started to come round to Jamie in light of how he’s developed this year and the revelation of why he killed The Mad King?

    #207306
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster
    #207310
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Wait a minute… that’s not the Game of Thrones theme music!

    #207312
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    About Jaime, I work with kids every day. My list of forgivable offenses is pretty long, but pushing a kid out a tower window is not on it.

    I’m happy he stuck up for Brienne, though.

    Ian – I was able to keep a straight face right up until the Dragonstone towers grew up during the sexy sax solo. Then I had to snigger.

    #207320
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > About Jaime, I work with kids every day. My list of forgivable offenses is pretty long, but pushing a kid out a tower window is not on it.

    What’s happened with me is I’ve stopped thinking of that moment as an evil act, and more of a necessary plot device. I think it’s referenced to so much after that point it’s just an integral part of the show’s setup and so it’s almost likely responsibility is taken from the character. It’s the same with Joffrey killing Ned (although there are plenty of things I still despise the character for) and Cat kidnapping Tyrion. All acts that are, or have caused terrible things, but all necessary.

    I guess it’s also the fact that it’s a terrible world where almost everyone does terrible things (how many children have died as a result of Robb’s war in the Riverlands? I’d wager A Lot) so my judgement of a character has shifted to how they’re judged in-universe.

    Thinking about it, this is starting to make me sound like a sociopath.

    #207324
    Ridley
    Participant

    Out of interest, has anyone started to come round to Jamie in light of how he’s developed this year and the revelation of why he killed The Mad King?

    I did when I got there in the books.

    It’s not that I’ve forgotten about what he did to Bran but because Jaime lives in a messed up world which cares more about him being an oathbreaker than removing a tyrant, I can at least try to understand what that would do to the guy.

    Even Joffrey’s showed the potential to be better with the right person in his ear.

    #207325
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    > Thinking about it, this is starting to make me sound like a sociopath.

    Yes, a more thoughtful and gentler breed of sociopath.

    It would actually be a very sensible way for me to shift my perspective, at least on repeated viewings of the first two series. For series three, it being brand new and my having not read the novel, I need to immerse myself in the world and the emotions first. But certainly it would help me feel more sympathy for Jaime, and I suspect that’s what the writers are going for now.

    #207789
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I like Dany’s new knight. I like him a lot.

    #208075
    Ridley
    Participant

    SPOILER

    Jorah Mormont’s awesome yellow shirt returns.

    #208079
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    I think I didn’t breathe or move for the first minute of the end credits. *long shudder*

    #208080
    Ridley
    Participant

    The irrational reactions are… interesting.

    #208083
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Which reactions?

    (spoilers)

    Walden Frey ordering the massacre? He is a mean, callous and unfeeling man who still felt he had been wronged – so that seemed in character to me.
    Robb staying with Talisa’s body rather than run away? A very Stark thing to do, I think.
    Roose Bolton killing Robb? We already know him to be ruthlessly violent.
    Catelyn slitting Walder’s wife’s throat? Definitely a mom thing. My mom is the sweetest woman on the planet, but she would want to hurt anyone who killed my brother or me. In that moment, murdering his wife was the closest Catelyn could get to hurting Walder himself. Or she may have been so grief-stricken that she didn’t entirely know what she was doing.

    It was almost too difficult to watch, but analyzing it afterward, every decision seemed to have a reason, unless I forgot something.

    #208088
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    An enjoyable episode on the whole. A scene I’ve been waiting to happen since… well, season one happened and was carried out well. While the red wedding was done really well, the stuff with Daenerys was very good as well and it easily overlooked because of what happened afterwards. I remember several times telling people that the plotty episodes serve a very good purpose, to build up to great final episodes.

    #208089
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Yeah, this episode was something else. The show knows how to do the big moments, and they always get the very best directors (in this case David Nutter) to do it justice. I don’t think a show has ever gut punched me as much as that episode did. In fact, the only comparable things are Eddard getting beheaded in season 1 and the West Wing’s season 3 and 4 finales.

    Which reactions?

    I think (although I might be wrong) Ridley is referring to fans’ reactions. There’s been some predictably hysterical rambling from some about vowing to never watch the show again, seemly oblivious to the fact that they’ve just been some served some of the best TV drama… well, ever.

    Speaking of plots from this episode that shouldn’t be forgotten: Arya and The Hound. The only thing better than the way Arya’s development has been written is how awesome Maisy Williams is.

    #208090
    Ridley
    Participant

    (although I might be wrong)

    You’re not. “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.” ;)

    It affected me more than I thought it would, knowing what I know. Had it spoiled in the book when I was a few chapters away thanks to a YouTube comment, and I didn’t particularly like Robb, Ned-Lite that he was.

    Oh Rickon, you’re here. Well off you go then.

    #208092
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Sorry I totally missed the gist of your earlier post, Ridley. :) I haven’t been paying attention to fan reactions other than what I read on here.

    > Oh Rickon, you’re here. Well off you go then.

    So true! lol

    > Speaking of plots from this episode that shouldn’t be forgotten: Arya and The Hound. The only thing better than the way Arya’s development has been written is how awesome Maisy Williams is.

    Maisie is amazing. I loved it when the Hound told her she was too nice and it would get her killed one day, then the old guy woke up and she knocked him out again.

    Something struck me as odd about her last scenes (Hound loses Arya/Arya sees a guy kill Grey Wind/Hound finds Arya). Maybe it was the editing. It all seemed quite rushed, and I don’t quite understand if she ever really escaped, or if she knew the Hound would find her again and just wanted to go see what was going on.

    #208180
    Ridley
    Participant

    Nice change of pace to get a kinda happy ending and closing music just as epic as season one.

    #208192
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Sweeping panorama shots of Dany’s army rule – both as episode endings, and just in general.

    Yes, the closing music was brilliant and suitably awe-inspiring to match the scene. Ramin Djawadi’s score really makes the show special. The use of melodies, notably the Lannister song, as motifs to help move the story along, is a vey effective trick.

    Equally notable is the absence of music. Last week, after the Red Wedding, the end credits played to absolute silence, which added to the feeling of utter shock I think. I believe they did the same thing after Ned Stark’s death, but have to double check that to be sure.

    #208220
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Sweeping panorama shots of Dany’s army rule – both as episode endings, and just in general.

    They’ve done a *much* better job of communicating the scale of the army this year than they did with the Dothraki Hoard in season 1. It really helps with communication just how strong she is at the moment.

    I thought the show;s done a great job of seeding certain themes throughout the season, especially the Rains of Castamere, which has been in pretty much every episode since Blackwater, leading up to the Red Wedding.

    #208221
    pfm
    Participant

    How can you talk about the Red Wedding when the real union just happened on BOTS?? *is scarred* :P

    Back on topic…what an awesome season it truly was! I’m a big fan of the decisions David and Dan are making with the adaptation. Obviously they’re being godfathered by GRRM, so people shouldn’t be too worried about x character not appearing etc. Season 4 onwards is going to be mossst interesting as we see them bringing in events from FFC and DWD, as well as finishing off SoS. At some point it’s gonna improve on the books, methinks. It’s fully possible to fit the events of 300 pages of DWD into a single episode, right? ;)

    #208222
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    How can you talk about the Red Wedding when the real union just happened on BOTS?? *is scarred* :P

    I genuinely don’t know which is more disturbing.

    #208706
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    In case anyone’s interested, I’ve just started co-hosting a Game of Thrones podcast. It’s called Dark Wings Dark Words and I believe it to be quite good.

    XML: http://feeds.feedburner.com/dwdwpodcast
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/dark-wings-dark-words-song/id670735164?mt=2

    #208708
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Very nice of you/them to indicate where the book spoilers start.

    #208718
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Yeah, although listening back we’re not *entirely* careful enough to not drop a few little ones in the main bit.

    #208731
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    This podcast is extraordinarily well done. Go listen now.

    #208732
    Ridley
    Participant

    Listening in half hour chunks so there.

    #208752
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Points from the podcast:

    1. The show not making it very clear that Jon never betrayed or intended to betray the Night’s Watch: that was true for me. I was *pretty* sure of it, but certainly had my moments of doubt.

    2. Talisa being basically invented in order to be slaughtered: Maybe you’re right that that’s why she was invented, but in practice she contributed much more than that. Robb and Talisa’s early conversations about the cost of the war, and his falling in love with her and eventually choosing love over duty, both added depth to his character. I was remembering Robb telling Bran to not look away from the execution of the deserter in the beginning of season 1, and Talisa called that back by forcing Robb not to look away from the war casualties.

    3. The viewers expecting the Starks to make a comeback because of their last appeal to Walder Frey: yes, growing up on a diet of Hollywood endings, I was absolutely taken in, and I’m sure that’s also exactly what the producers wanted for numerous reasons, of which I’ll just point out two. First, going all the way back to season 1, they put Ned Stark on the cover of the DVD and also reissued the first novel with him on the cover. Because of that, even after he was killed, I thought, “The Starks are the ones we’re supposed to root for, so they’ll eventually win.”

    Another contributing factor is the fact that in the opening titles, the violins join in playing the main theme just as Winterfell is shown. The violins in an orchestra often represent the hero. Even when they changed the order in which the houses were shown, they always lined up Winterfell with the violin entrance when they could easily have used that moment to highlight a different house. Now that I’m thinking about it, they may finally have done that this season, but Winterfell was highlighted enough (I’m pretty sure it was at least the twenty episodes of season 1 and 2) that it was certainly intended to have an unconscious impact on the viewer, and it did on me.

    #208769
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    1. The show not making it very clear that Jon never betrayed or intended to betray the Night’s Watch: that was true for me. I was *pretty* sure of it, but certainly had my moments of doubt.

    Yeah, I think it’s the main reason Jon’s story has been a little off, because he’s such a taciturn character they lose a lot of his motivations because we can’t get inside his head. I definitely think things will get much better for him from now on, though.

    2. Talisa being basically invented in order to be slaughtered: Maybe you’re right that that’s why she was invented, but in practice she contributed much more than that. Robb and Talisa’s early conversations about the cost of the war, and his falling in love with her and eventually choosing love over duty, both added depth to his character. I was remembering Robb telling Bran to not look away from the execution of the deserter in the beginning of season 1, and Talisa called that back by forcing Robb not to look away from the war casualties.

    Very true, actually. Robb is never a POV character in the books, and we experience him only through Cat’s eyes. Since Cat has been very much marginalised and simplified in the TV show (something I’ll never be happy about, but it’s too late now) Talisa definitely filled some of that role so we could see more of Robb. Not a fan of that storyline in general, really, but they definitely ended well (in a horrific sort of way).

    3. The viewers expecting the Starks to make a comeback because of their last appeal to Walder Frey: yes, growing up on a diet of Hollywood endings, I was absolutely taken in, and I’m sure that’s also exactly what the producers wanted for numerous reasons, of which I’ll just point out two. First, going all the way back to season 1, they put Ned Stark on the cover of the DVD and also reissued the first novel with him on the cover. Because of that, even after he was killed, I thought, “The Starks are the ones we’re supposed to root for, so they’ll eventually win.”

    I’m still delighted that I managed to be surprised by the TV show chopping Ned’s head off. One of the most effective surprises I’ve ever seen. The whole series seems to be structured like that, with various plot beats going the opposite way to what you’d expect, but it’s only with the really big events that you notice it. It’s so refreshing to genuinely worry for the lives of every single character, no matter how important.

    Another contributing factor is the fact that in the opening titles, the violins join in playing the main theme just as Winterfell is shown. The violins in an orchestra often represent the hero. Even when they changed the order in which the houses were shown, they always lined up Winterfell with the violin entrance when they could easily have used that moment to highlight a different house. Now that I’m thinking about it, they may finally have done that this season, but Winterfell was highlighted enough (I’m pretty sure it was at least the twenty episodes of season 1 and 2) that it was certainly intended to have an unconscious impact on the viewer, and it did on me.

    This is really, really interesting, I’d never spotted that before. Thinking about it, I’ve always taken that section of the music to be slightly melancholy, especially from the end of season 1 onwards, but that’s probably because I now associate it with the fate of the Starks.

    #208796
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    Currently enjoying DWDW 2 about Robert’s Rebellion.

    #208799
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Hurrah!

    Also, Mark Gatiss has been cast in season 4!

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