Refresh For The Memory: Series 1 Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching WAITING FOR GOD, CONFIDENCE & PARANOIA and ME². Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1

Topic

[Jonathan Capps]

The sense of scale they achieve for the ship in Waiting for God is fantastic. 

[Stilianides]

Waiting for God – An underrated episode imo and it was nice to hear Rob saying on the Lockdown commentary that while he dreaded watching it back, he could get some enjoyment from it (I think this was during the section that was mistakenly not recorded).

The actual section featuring the Cat Priest isn’t great (but I do love the lines about the Cat’s father being a jelly brain), but Rimmer’s alien obsession makes up for it. 

It’s also amusing that Rimmer’s rant about, “that pushead Hollister” gets no reaction whatsoever. 

[Loathsome American]

I get that “Waiting for God” is a bit smug in parts, but all the “So what else is new?” stuff is more than balanced for me by Lister putting aside his horror at what’s been done in his name and instead deciding to use his “power” to comfort the cat priest and the priest’s reaction to the return of his hat. I actually find the scene pretty moving, and the organ-and-arpeggiated-guitar version of the theme playing behind it works really well, I think. 

“Confidence and Paranoia” I think is probably the weakest of the first series, even if I think “Series I weak” is still pretty strong. Craig Ferguson is obviously going big on purpose but I still find the performance kind of grating. And while the show is built on wild handwavy sci-fi extrapolations to facilitate the ideas and jokes, “mutated pneumonia generates solid and sentient hallucinations” is maybe a bit too far. Psi-moon, fine by me, but for whatever reason, this and mutated developing fluid making time holes are where my brain apparently draws a line. 

[Flap Jack]

Waiting For God – yep, this is definitely super underrated, including by me in the past. I wouldn’t even say it was the worst episode in Series 1, let alone the worst of the first 36. The Quagaars plot (which is arguably the main one in terms of running time) is great, and the Cat religion plot is not as good but it is solid, and is some good and necessary world building.

– I said for Future Echoes that it was weird for Rimmer to salute Holly, but he does it again here, so I stand corrected. Possibly it’s less about respect for Holly, and more about him indulging himself in the idea that whatever he’s currently doing is professional or important.

– I enjoyed the “shiny thing”  conversation between Cat and Rimmer. It perfectly showcased the “colleagues who have absolutely nothing in common forced to make small talk” dynamic they have at this stage.

– The revelation that Cat has been travelling back and forth between the Priest and the area where Lister and Rimmer is suggests that maybe his motivation for initially breaking into the main part of the ship in The End was to get the Priest food or medicine. That’s surprisingly sweet of him.

– Given vanity is a sin for Cats, and vanity is what (in theory) means The Cat doesn’t have a proper name, does that mean the Priest probably does have a name that we just don’t get to learn?

– Continuity Watch: Lister worked at a supermarket for 10 years before he worked for JMC, so I guess supermarkets are just straight up hiring children in the future. It fits Lister’s background well, even if it seems odd for Lister to be in the same job for that long.

– Good Talkie Toaster content in this episode, which weirdly manages to actually tie in to the story a bit, with Talkie having his existential crisis about the meaninglessness of existence. It probably could have done with more of a pay off than “so what else is new?” but I like that his presence wasn’t purely argumentative.

– Anyone else find Rimmer losing his temper with Lister incredibly over the top? Like it works and everything, but he was as angry at Lister for talking about Cats as he will be at his duplicate for completely destroying his sense of self in Me^2. This “don’t talk to me about stuff I don’t care about” attitude from the guy who screamed Lister awake in the middle of the night to talk about aliens. What a prick.

– Interesting that there was no mention of hot dogs or doughnuts in Lister’s plan in The End, but now they’re absolutely central to it. That’s not a plot hole or anything, but it does make his dreams even more unrealistic than they already were. Draining Fiji to make it usable farmland is one thing, turning it overnight into a tourist destination is maybe a bit trickier!

– Continuity Watch 2: Lister only worked for JMC for 8 months before he went into stasis, but in that time he managed to request diarrhoea sick leave 500 times. Are we sure Hollister wasn’t just taking the piss with that number?

– The credits interruption is classic, and impressive that they’re messing with the credits twice in this series alone. But for some reason I always expect there to be one more interjection than there is. Comedy Rule of Three I guess.

– Small detail, but Lister recalling all of the rocks that Holly has previously picked up as “unidentified objects” is a good way of making it feel like a fair amount of time has passed post stasis, and they’re used to this situation.

– Is there an in-universe explanation for the smoke machine in the Cat Priest scene?

– The Cat religion story is undeniably on the nose, but it still works well for me. I appreciate that Lister is more focused on sympathy for the Cats than he is on thinking they’re stupid or looking down on them. And the Cat Priest scene, as much as it comes out of nowhere, is quite effecting to me. Despite how many times I’ve seen this episode before, I was getting genuinely emotional as Lister was comforting him. Plus, Lister silently threatening Cat not to give the game away (and then after, Priest giving the details of Cat’s parentage) added a nice comedic element to the scene without ruining the overall tone.

[Flap Jack]

Oh, also, Continuity Watch 3: Rimmer has been with JMC for 15 years. If his novel age of 31 applies here too, that means he joined up at 16, which seems pretty young. I guess the military academy or space corps training or what-have-you starts at sixth form age, and Rimmer went straight from rejection to being a spaceship technician.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Rimmer’s age and length of service has been discussed before

i think if you assume Rimmer probably joined some junior cadets program when he is 15/16 years old, that he does in the evenings whilst at school/college before joining the academy then it all lines up

it makes sense that you’d get a “3 years long service” badge if that’s the badge you get after passing out of the cadet program at 18/19 and then join the Space Corp proper and they just accumulate from there 

[Flap Jack]

Ah, well of course I’m not going to remember/find those previous discussions. ;-)

Sure, if a junior cadets program was run by JMC directly then it adds up, but the idea of him going directly into low level employment at 16 rather than doing further education makes some sense too. It fits with the idea of him divorcing his parents.

Or, we could just say he’s a bit older in this continuity.

[Loathsome American]

On some level, Rimmer just enjoys the act of saluting. He does it to Todhunter and Lister doesn’t, but Todhunter doesn’t reprimand Lister; this suggests saluting and formal address is not strictly adhered to on ship, Rimmer just insists on it in his own conduct. 

As for Rimmer blowing up at Lister during “Waiting for God,” part of it would be resentment. Being “God” makes Lister “important,” which is all that Rimmer wants out of life, but all Lister does is complain about it. It’s like bussing tables waiting for your band to be discovered and having to listen to a rock star whine about being famous, from Rimmer’s perspective. 

[Flap Jack]

Good points, well made! A part of me still thinks that it would have been even more effective if he didn’t display that level of anger until the end of the series, but I can’t deny the value of Chris Barrie furiously shouting “THIS IS SCIENCE, LADDIE!” with that level of intensity.

[RealBigOleDummy]

Very happy to see “Waiting for God” get a bit more love here than I’m used to seeing. Its one of my top 10 favorite episodes period. Can’t remember where I put it in the Pearl Poll tbh, SURE it was in the top 10 though. I laugh all through it, start to finish. Talkie here isn’t just totally a jerk too, which is nice. We got more nontoast speech from him here than usual.  (wasn’t he supposed to be red plastic/enamel instead of silver/chrome?) 
I see others here bringing up Rimmers speech about the Quagaars. To ME it was kind of cool seeing him being passionate about something. Thats a side of Rimmer we don’t often see.  Us knowing that its a garbage pod just makes it a lot funnier. 
The end credits “Its a smegging garbage pod” NEVER fails to make me laugh too lol. Hell, I’m laughing just thinking about it.
Confidence and Paranoia , while uneven is a solid episode imo. Also, its the first episode NOT in the books so …. take that for what its worth. 
Me2 …. well, as far as I can remember this was the first episode I ever saw. So, it holds a special place for me. Outstandingly funny. I was in thrall from the first few minutes. Only saw about half of it that first time but still , this episode started me on my Red Dwarf journey so I will be forever grateful for it and even NOW it stills holds up for me. I had to special order the DVD ($60!!!!!) when I first got it and it was and is worth every penny. 

Mentioned the books earlier. I’m in the middle of re-reading the Omnibus edition,again hehe. Has anyone but me noticed all the typos and mis-spelled words in it? Was there no proofreader at all? 

[Warbodog]

I don’t care too much for Balance of Power; Waiting for God is the one that gets me defensive, particularly with the indignity of it coming consistently bottom of the original pile.

It didn’t used to be a favourite, but it’s like one of those more obscure albums in a discography that I find myself coming back to much more often nowadays and find more rewarding than the ones I overplayed in youth. I love it, it might even be my favourite so far, there’s so much to it. Here are some reasons why and other enthusiastically messy observations in no order:

– Excellent sci-fi comedy satire. Its message is on the nose, but it’s one I’m fully behind. It’s contrived, but I love a good parallel theme. (Craig Charles singled out the tacky props for criticism, but surely the tackiness is the point?)

– “Just you, me, the Cat, and a lot of floating, smegging rocks”: more mission statement for the lonely and claustrophobically introspective first series, though this was the last point where Lister could really say this before wacky space things start happening.

– This is likely the case for every episode from the classic run, but there are so many great lines. Some favourites are the roast beef fallacy, stealing verucca cream from a man with no feet, turn this into a woman.

– Lister broadens his mind with Cat culture (even if it’s partly self-absorbed) while Rimmer obsesses over his own imaginary aliens, ignoring the alien civilisation ripe for investigation under his nose (because Lister’s completely ruined it for him. Like his shirt, ahh).

– Agree that Rimmer/Barrie’s shouting reaction is over-the-top, but he’s so wound up by Lister’s godhood and attitude to it, especially as he’s feeling his own post-mortality strongly in this episode.

– Cat’s grey suit seemed such a foolish design choice when he slinked in, but they make it work against that lovely red-blue lighting (he’s not in the grey Observation Room scenes).

– I forgot Cat ate Krispies after episode 1, I thought that went out when Rimmer taught him to use the food dispenser as some actual continuity. Old habits.

– I’ve always thought series 1 Cat is best Cat, I think that’s mainly here and the next episode. His aloofness and the utter selfishness, with added mysterious revelations here.

– Great interactions all round. Maybe Holly is comedically under-used, since this was his transition episode.

– “Dead people can have heart attacks too”: keep that in their back pocket.

– Coming right after Balance of Power, Lister gleefully disobeying Rimmer is a delight. Rimmer having to face that he has to give up there. More actual continuity!

– Rimmer’s sci-fi twist on faith not driven by the conventional fear of death and grasp for spiritual life after death, but the hope of physical resurrection (and hopefully, some sex).

– It seems this episode is a whole can of worms for continuity, specifically Lister and Rimmer’s careers/ages and Rimmer’s implied virginity, but I think it always ended up making sense.

– The Cat Priest bit maybe could have been better, but there’s a nice sense of the vast passage of time and decay that you might not get elsewhere in the series.

[Warbodog]

It’s also amusing that Rimmer’s rant about, “that pushead Hollister” gets no reaction whatsoever. 

I’d expect at least a solitary cocky “ho ho!” for Rimmer’s “anyone who goes around reading meaning into any old gobbledygook…”, but they didn’t have the Red Dwarf fans in yet.

maybe his motivation for initially breaking into the main part of the ship in The End was to get the Priest food or medicine.

I hadn’t even noticed that breaking open the hatch means it was Cat’s first time exploring there, I’d figured it was a regular haunt. Makes it all the more an extraordinary coincidence!

[Unrumble]

It seems this episode is a whole can of worms for continuity, specifically Rimmer’s implied virginity, but I think it always ended up making sense.

Yes, I always read “imagine making love to a woman” as a comment of wistful longing, from someone to whom it had been a rare, nay freak occurence, rather than he’d never experienced it. 

Loving the analysis/insights. A longtime favourite moment of mine, which also provides some great continuity between scenes/shots: Rimmer’s irritated, imitative hand gesture as he walks into the drive room after the ‘shiny thing, woaaaah catch that string’ exchange with the Cat. 

[RealBigOleDummy]

(Craig Charles singled out the tacky props for criticism, but surely the tackiness is the point?)

I distinctly remember the props being a major “win” with me actually. I mean …. its a mining ship, a working space dump truck for all intents and purposes. As such it would be as bare bones as any company piece of equipment. I remember thinking “what a nice touch” to show it that way. Over time the ship became more “luxurious” but I always liked the early series sense of working class/plebian “style”. The ONLY time the cheapness of the ship props ever made me groan was when Lister was ejecting the crews ashes. I mean…. a swinging door? Really? Anything would have been better lol. 

[Stilianides]

With regard to the Cat Priest scene, I can understand Doug’s previous comments about the sets and that it obviously looks like a studio.

I’m rather more bemused at their decision to remove Howard Goodall’s music for the Remastered version, as I doubt many people would have had an issue with his score. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Where is Rimmer saluting Holly? I’ve never picked up on that. 

At odd times he’s done it randomly I’ve always just thought he was being officious, as he’ll then go marching off for example. But I’ve never seen or read an action of his as him directly saluting Holly.

[Unrumble]

Where is Rimmer saluting Holly? I’ve never picked up on that. 
At odd times he’s done it randomly I’ve always just thought he was being officious, as he’ll then go marching off for example. But I’ve never seen or read an action of his as him directly saluting Holly.

While I tend to agree with you, I can see why this particular instance would be open to interpretation, as he’s directly responding to Holly as he does it. 

[Rudolph]

– Continuity Watch: Lister worked at a supermarket for 10 years
before he worked for JMC, so I guess supermarkets are just straight up
hiring children in the future. It fits Lister’s background well, even if
it seems odd for Lister to be in the same job for that long.

I always assumed that it started off as a Saturday job for Lister aged about 15, that he transitioned into a career after he left school properly at 16.

Lister’s age is all over the place, admittedly. He’s 25 in Future Echoes, comments in Kryten suggest two years have passed since he was revived from stasis, they celebrate at least the first anniversary of Rimmer’s death in Thanks for the Memory, Rimmer implies he’s been dead for three years in Stasis Leak, Queeg says Red Dwarf has been flying off course for fourteen months in Queeg and yet Lister is still 25 in Backwards.

[Dave]

they celebrate at least the first anniversary of Rimmer’s death in Thanks for the Memory, Rimmer implies he’s been dead for three years in Stasis Leak,

Surely Rimmer has been dead for three million years by this point.

[Flap Jack]

Confidence & Paranoia – According the the Pearl Poll, this is the most average Red Dwarf episode of all time (pre 2020). Not sure where I’d place it now but it’s definitely a good one. Confidence and Paranoia are both brilliantly performed guest characters (especially Confidence) and the introduction of some peril feels needed after 2 full episodes of just interpersonal conflict (as long as you aren’t a Cat priest, anyway). Plus the ending twist was superb, and in a rare case for Red Dwarf, actually directly continued in the next episode in a complete way (I guess the next example would be Epideme/Nanarchy?).

– Lister could watch his film anywhere, including at an actual movie theatre, but he chooses to watch it (a) hunched over a computer desk, probably while procrastinating some admin work, and (b) lying on his front in bed. Truly this show was ahead of its time.

– Speaking of the film – why is it just a static shot of some palm trees?

– The Cat is eating his lunch at like 4am. What a guy.

– I don’t usually notice this sort of thing, but Lister collapsing in front of his stasis booth on the way to the medical bay does make the ship feel incredibly small (though thinking about it, it does line up with Rimmer being chartered through there after his exam collapse in The End).

– One thing I like in this episode is that Rimmer shows genuine concern for Lister’s health, and despite continuing to bully him as usual, he is acting in his interest throughout. It’s good development across the series, and he seems sincere when he’s wishing Lister good luck at the end but warning him about the danger of reviving Kochanski… which makes the pay-off that it was a trap even funnier.

– Confidence carries around a lightbulb just so he can hover it over Lister’s head when he has an idea. What an icon. Plus he calls people “king” to boost their ego, which is pretty in vogue right now… although this is 3m years in the future so he’s still incredibly old fashioned. Sorry, Confidence.

– Pretty much everything about Confidence is great to be honest. His look, the way he carries himself, the way he speaks with the randomly mispronounced words, and yet he still seems kind of genuine in his compliments to Lister. It makes his dark turn effective.

– Cat is pretty cute in this episode too, with his “too slow, chicken Marengo” hijinks, him popping his head through the door to say “somebody ate them”, and the way he mimics Rimmer’s salute at the end and does a little dance out of the room. (“S. E. X, I think I’ve found it” is a touch more on the menacing side though.)

– Why did they introduce the dust storm if it was just going to be over by the time they wanted to go outside? Just to remind the audience that going outside was something they could do? A remnant of an earlier draft where Confidence convinces Lister to go out with him to get the disks before it’s over, and that’s what gets him killed?

– Sorry Bob, but Stabbim will always be the best Skutter. No contest.

– Was Rimmer aiming to euthanise Paranoia in that scene or just sedate him? Murder seems a bit extreme. Even if you rationalise C&P as a disease, they’re still living breathing people.

– The space walk scene still looks pretty good I think. But as with the show in general, don’t think too hard about gravity.

– Holly’s not exactly on the ball this episode, is he? You’d think you’d notice a grisly murder being committed, but I guess he was too engrossed in Agatha Christie… wait, was that deliberate irony? Let’s say it was.

– Good detail for them to explain exactly how Lister ended up getting sick, to keep continuity with the “Red Dwarf is a closed system” stuff from The End. Later he’ll just randomly open the episode with space mumps.

– Lister watching Kochanski’s dream recordings seems a bit suspect. Sure, she’s been dead for 3 million years, so privacy schmivacy, but it’s not the same if you’re planning to initialise an exact duplicate of her personality this week.

– I may not know where Confidence & Paranoia will sit in my full episode ranking, but I know where it’ll sit in my “Ampersand Subseries” ranking: 3rd.

– Please put your answers on a postcard regarding the questions I asked a while back about whether Confidence & Paranoia are causes of Lister’s illness or merely symptoms, whether they’re actually trying to kill Lister or just keep him alive but still ill, whether their continued existence actually depends on Lister or not, and whether Confidence actually understands what he is or is just making his best guess. I’m still undecided.

– If the events of Back to Reality had happened while Lister was suffering from the illness he has in this episode, would Duane Dibbley have become real?

[Dave]

Plus the ending twist was superb, and in a rare case for Red Dwarf, actually directly continued in the next episode in a complete way (I guess the next example would be Epideme/Nanarchy?).

I guess if you don’t count Out Of Time/Tikka as a proper continuation, which I could understand. 

[Flap Jack]

Yeah, I basically group Tikka to Ride with Backwards and Waiting For God in that regard.

The opening recap/monologue by Lister is just brushing aside the cliffhanger with an explanation which they clearly did not have in mind in ’93. It doesn’t feel like a direct continuation of the story.

[clem]

Confidence carries around a lightbulb just so he can hover it over Lister’s head when he has an idea.

I always like to imagine he conjures the bulb from nowhere, like The Mask or Harpo Marx. Solid hallucinations have access to Hammerspace. Come to think of it, they’re kind of *from* Hammerspace? 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Where is Rimmer saluting Holly? I’ve never picked up on that. 
At odd times he’s done it randomly I’ve always just thought he was being officious, as he’ll then go marching off for example. But I’ve never seen or read an action of his as him directly saluting Holly.

While I tend to agree with you, I can see why this particular instance would be open to interpretation, as he’s directly responding to Holly as he does it. 

I still put that down to Rimmer being officious because he then marches off.  It’s just him playing soldier isn’t it like he does in other places.  Its his own salute after all, its not official and he isn’t required to use it.  As other mentions he salutes Todhunter (with his unofficial salute) and Todhunter pays no notice at all.

Rimmer’s just being old school in that regard.

If he IS saluting Holly, then it would just be a sign of respect in some degree.  Higher ranking officer return salutes to lower ranking officers, and here Rimmer would see himself as the higher ranking officer.  In his head Holly has saluted him, so he is returning it.

[Warbodog]

Confidence & Paranoia

– ‘Most average episode of Red Dwarf’ feels fair enough. It’s very good, but a bit meandering and nonsensical. The Timeslides comparison is apt.

– One big point in series 1’s favour (and why I prefer it over some others) is the ongoing story, rather than being random shuffleable episodes. This one follows through from The End and Balance of Power and obviously leads into the finale. The sum is greater than the parts, but this still reflects on the parts.

– I may be forgetting even at this early point, but is this the first real episode where Holly is shown to be a bit inept? His Future Echoes lapses were chalked up to him being distracted by LS, but the novels revealed he was sensitive about his senility and not letting on.

– Is this also the first time Holly just hangs out having banter?

– It might not be quite the classic Cat episode I remember, but I love how he is here, especially during his lunch and in the bunk. He even wears three outfits, which could make for mean Smegles. The laundry gag may be a bit weak, but I would have welcomed more ‘lol, like a cat’ jokes, short of a cat flap.

– The dispensing machine accidentally lighting up for Cat’s dialogue is like Lister mouthing along to Cat in Legion. Maybe Cat is the centre of the universe.

– Rimmer is definitely on the mend, which is needed going into Me2 (at least with the novel inference of one Rimmer having gone soft). We do get the infamous Yvonne McGruder story, but that was in the past.

– So Rimmer was dreaming about McGruder when he thought it was his mother waking him up (calling him “Rimmer” amusingly, tying in with Better Than Life later). Not sure what to make of this, in light of the novels.

– A general point for this rewatch, a combination of Smegle and John Hoare articles means I’m paying more attention to backgrounds than ever before.

– Confidence and Paranoia are thoughtful creations and more menacing than most of the later monsters. I can see how Confidence could rub people the wrong way, but I think he’s appropriately over the top and just keeps going.

– Rimmer finding the smashed-up medical unit seems like a weirdly placed scene/edit. It could only have come at that point in the finished episode, but why is he suddenly looking for Lister in there, when he just saw that Lister ran off to get the discs?

– Not knowing that two holograms would be a possibility, Rimmer swapped the discs to ensure his own continuing existence and this was an unexpected “bonus.” But why wouldn’t Lister just switch him off and try other discs immediately? Actually… why doesn’t he?

[Flap Jack]

– Not knowing that two holograms would be a possibility, Rimmer swapped the discs to ensure his own continuing existence and this was an unexpected “bonus.” But why wouldn’t Lister just switch him off and try other discs immediately? Actually… why doesn’t he?

Possibly Rimmer 2 refused to be turned off, and Lister couldn’t overrule him due to being outranked still. But he found a loophole at the end of Me^2 by getting both Rimmers to agree that one of them should be switched off.

[Warbodog]

Yeah, and Rimmer’s still holding Kochanski’s disc hostage and could have threatened to have it destroyed/jettisoned.

[Warbodog]

If the events of Back to Reality had happened while Lister was suffering from the illness he has in this episode, would Duane Dibbley have become real?

What would have happened if they’d used the Triplicator in this episode?

[Flap Jack]

When you think about it, the 2 Rimmers situation reveals how right Rimmer was to refuse the earlier “let me switch you off for Kochanski, I’ll switch you back on, I promise” plan, from his perspective. Because if Rimmer says “I only agree to be deactivated on the condition I’m reactivated at X time”, but then Kochanski says “I refuse to be deactivated, period”, then Kochanski outranks Rimmer, and Rimmer would be fucked.

– Is there an in-universe explanation for the smoke machine in the Cat Priest scene?

OK, so in the Quarantine commentary for Waiting For God, Rob says that the smoke is a result of the inside air being suddenly reduced in temperature when exposed to outside air. Seems like a stretch to me (unlike the rest of the scene and episode, which is all totally plausible of course), but I respect the attempt.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

What doesn’t make sense is how if Rimmer’s disc is in Kochanski’s box, how the hell is OG Rimmer being projected.  As it’s shown the disc needs to be inserted for the hologram to run.

Rimmer doesn’t seem clever enough to double bluff Lister either.  Hiding it outside the sleeping quarters as well as then hiding his own disc in there.  So where is Kochanski’s disc?  It not being with her box or under Lister’s nose sort of defeats the point of it being outside at all, no?

[Dave]

What doesn’t make sense is how if Rimmer’s disc is in Kochanski’s box, how the hell is OG Rimmer being projected.  As it’s shown the disc needs to be inserted for the hologram to run.

You have to assume it’s a copy of his earlier save-state disc I think, rather than it being the one that’s running the existing Rimmer.

Obviously nu-Rimmer hasn’t gone through the same growth as the existing Rimmer (from living with Lister for a bit), so it must be a copy of Rimmer’s disc that has him at the same stage that he is at just before he walks in on Lister towards the end of The End.

(How nu-Rimmer knows that Rimmer warned Lister not to boot up the disc, I don’t know.)

[Warbodog]

It’s fortunate that Grant Naylor didn’t question their last-minute(?) genius episode-ending saves like we do.

Rimmer’s growth now has me considering Future Echoes being better placed as episode 2 after all, rather than Rimmer grinning with fingers in his ears right before Confidence and Paranoia.

[Flap Jack]

What doesn’t make sense is how if Rimmer’s disc is in Kochanski’s box, how the hell is OG Rimmer being projected. As it’s shown the disc needs to be inserted for the hologram to run.

Rimmer doesn’t seem clever enough to double bluff Lister either. Hiding it outside the sleeping quarters as well as then hiding his own disc in there. So where is Kochanski’s disc? It not being with her box or under Lister’s nose sort of defeats the point of it being outside at all, no?

I mean you can’t really say “surely Rimmer wouldn’t have thought to swap the disks into incorrect boxes AND hide the disks” because the fact that he does this is the story.

Re “how is Holly currently running Rimmer if Rimmer’s disk is outside the ship”, explanation 1 is that he made a copy of the disk and put that in Kochanski’s box without removing his original disk from the holo projection suite.

Explanation 2 is that Holly is able to permanently store the data for 1 or 2 holograms in his digital memory, such that he only needs the disk to actually be physically present when initialising the hologram, kind of like installing a program from a CD-ROM. Then if he needs to access hologramic data from other crewmembers (either while the first hologram is running or not) he can load up other disks. (e.g. In Balance of Power Holly is able to generate Kochanski’s body but with Rimmer’s personality and memories; surely if he needed Rimmer’s disc in place to generate Rimmer, then this wouldn’t have been possible – especially as Rimmer describes his and Kochanski’s disks as being swapped.)

I’m imagining the holo-disks for most everyone were in there like records in a jukebox, to be automatically moved around by Holly, until Rimmer had them removed and hidden in the solar panel.

As for “so where is Kochanski’s disk then”, either it was in the box of another random crewmember as part of a long chain of swaps, or Rimmer hid it somewhere else entirely, on its own.

[Loathsome American]

Just want to say I always enjoy playing the Sherlockian Game with Red Dwarf and am glad to see it here.

[Loathsome American]

Something to consider: if Rimmer moved the hologram projection discs, that means it was the skutters who would have physically moved them. The skutters are bad at everything. Might they have damaged or even lost some of the disks? Kochanski’s in particular?

[Stabbim]

Explanation 2 is that Holly is able to permanently store the data for 1
or 2 holograms in his digital memory, such that he only needs the disk
to actually be physically present when initialising the hologram, kind
of like installing a program from a CD-ROM. Then if he needs to access
hologramic data from other crewmembers (either while the first hologram
is running or not) he can load up other disks. (e.g. In Balance of Power
Holly is able to generate Kochanski’s body but with Rimmer’s
personality and memories; surely if he needed Rimmer’s disc in place to
generate Rimmer, then this wouldn’t have been possible – especially as
Rimmer describes his and Kochanski’s disks as being swapped.)
I’m imagining the holo-disks for most everyone were in there like
records in a jukebox, to be automatically moved around by Holly, until
Rimmer had them removed and hidden in the solar panel.

Holly can access bits and pieces from all the hologram files any time he wants, as he often demonstrates (to Rimmer’s chagrin) in early episodes.  The beehive haircut, Petersen’s arm, Kochanski’s body and voice, a series of crew members’ voices and mannerisms in Queeg.

It’s not the physical image that creates the drain on Holly’s processing power which limits him to “maintaining” one hologram, nor does he need the specific disk installed to do it.  Whatever “hard drive space” for lack of a better term on Holly it takes to store the record of any (and all) given crew member(s) physical appearance, voice tone, mannerisms and “personality” seems pretty trivial.  “Patching” bits and pieces from multiple crew members is no big deal.

“Holly can only sustain one hologram” seems to mean, then, that Holly can only generate and maintain one hologram and have it act effectively “alive”.  That’s the drain on the processing power and/or what requires physically loading a specific disk into the projection unit.  Hologram Rimmer doesn’t just retrace Rimmer’s steps, or “act like Rimmer” based exclusively on old information.  Hologram Rimmer remembers new information, retains experiences and memories from its hologram existence and merges those with it’s record of living Rimmer.  It’s not static, nor does it just spit out the reaction it’s algorithm says Rimmer would have; it grows and changes as it operates.  The Rimmer Hologram “lives”, ironically enough.  Thus, in Me^2, even though the two Rimmers are copies of the same file, they act differently from each other.  The post-generation “lived” experience makes them different.  It’s providing that spark of “life” that seems to be where Holly’s processing power/RAM/etc. is limited.

Where does the new memory/experience gained in the hologramatic post-life go in the case of a shut down?  Does it get saved to the file in case it’s rebooted later?  Doesn’t seem to happen with Me^2 Rimmer’s brief “life”; it doesn’t get added to Rimmer that we can tell, it’s just gone.  Does taking the disk out restore that hologramatic “person” to the factory settings of what their backup file was at death/the last time they saved/updated, wiping out everything the hologram “lived” through?  If so, then switching a hologram on or off isn’t just shutting down a program, it is “killing” a “living” thing. All the more reason for Rimmer to refuse to step aside for Holokochanski for a date even Lister isn’t sure she’d want to go on.

[Formica]

– I may not know where Confidence & Paranoia will sit in my full episode ranking, but I know where it’ll sit in my “Ampersand Subseries” ranking: 3rd.

You really figure it less good than Fathers & Suns?

[Flap Jack]

You really figure it less good than Fathers & Suns?

No, that’s the one I rank as worse than it.

Holly can access bits and pieces from all the hologram files any time he wants, as he often demonstrates (to Rimmer’s chagrin) in early episodes. The beehive haircut, Petersen’s arm, Kochanski’s body and voice, a series of crew members’ voices and mannerisms in Queeg.

For sure, he must have bits and pieces of crew hologram data stored on his hard drive which he can access without needing to load a new disc for these reasons (although I think the haircuts might just be generic, not from specific people). But I figure there’s a limit to how much he can store without needing to load up disks, because if he’s got everything there digitally, there’d be no need for Lister to go hunting for Kochanski’s disk at all.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I think, what we have here, is a classic plot hole. Frankly I’m disappointed in Rob and Doug. Famously very tight in their writing.

[Dave]

It’s a bit like the difference between the Holly disk and the Holly settings update in TPL isn’t it? The disk has the basic Rimmer on it (presumably saved at regular intervals when he was still alive) and all the lived experience since then is an update that’s constantly maintained by Holly, based on the original data from the disk.

[Stilianides]

Confidence and Paranoia – I would place this episode well above halfway and it contains several memorable moments.

Confidence’s explosion is an early example of the importance of Peter Wragg’s contribution to the show and the music that accompanies the space walk is probably my favourite from the first series. A clever blend of the opening theme and Blue Danube.

The Stabbim scene is obviously a classic and I also enjoy the gruesome description of Paranoia’s death (I sense Rob Grant’s handiwork).

I enjoy the essentially meaningless conversations about nothingness between Lister and Holly. In an interview circa 1993 Doug admitted to having mixed feelings that this kind of interaction had largely gone from the show.

I think there’s a huge amount of invention, in general, in this episode and it’s probably my third favourite from the first series.

[Flap Jack]

Just another observation on the 2 Rimmers and the logistics of maintaining holograms – at the end of Confidence & Paranoia, the first thing Rimmer 2 says is “Well, he did warn you.” He wouldn’t know about Rimmer 1 warning Lister if he was just “factory settings” and only had memories up until The End. So, even if Rimmer 2 was booted from a physical disk, he must have immediately been given all of Rimmer 1’s post-death memories, presumably copied from Holly’s constantly updating digital version – even though the memories obviously will have forked after he was booted up.

I haven’t rewatched Me^2 yet, but I’ll be looking out for anything which contradicts that and says Rimmer 2 is from an older reference point than Rimmer 1, because I have a feeling that’s only an explicit thing in IWCD.

We tend to think of Rimmer 2 as being a bit more of a jerk than Rimmer 1 due to him having spent less time with Lister, but that can also be explained just by him being aware that he’s the duplicate, and becoming self-conscious and angry about it.

[Dave]

I haven’t rewatched Me^2 yet, but I’ll be looking out for anything which contradicts that and says Rimmer 2 is from an older reference point than Rimmer 1, because I have a feeling that’s only an explicit thing in IWCD.

I think it’s only explicit in IWCD, but I think (from memory) Rob did mention during the quarantine commentaries that it was the intention in the show too. Although how much of that is hindsight I don’t know. 

[Dave]

This is maybe as close as the episode gets to outright stating that the two Rimmers aren’t identical:

[Flap Jack]

It may have been Rob and Doug’s intention, but I guess they prioritised the funny instead (gasp!), so Rimmer 2 could coolly make a quip about the situation the moment he booted up, rather than do what he would be doing if he had no post-death memories: freak the fuck out.

And I guess Rimmer 1 in that cinema scene is technically correct either way: whether or not Rimmer 2 remembers doing those things, Rimmer 1 actually did them.

I suppose if you really want to make the alternative make sense, perhaps Holly first has holograms initialised in a wholly virtual space where he explains stuff to them, and then he physically forms them. Maybe.

But I think them sharing the same Series 1 memories fits how they’re played in Me^2, where they’re behaving very similarly to each other until they fall out. Rather than Rimmer 1 being noticeably more adjusted to his post-mortem existence than Rimmer 2.

[Dave]

But I think them sharing the same Series 1 memories fits how they’re played in Me^2, where they’re behaving very similarly to each other until they fall out. Rather than Rimmer 1 being noticeably more adjusted to his post-mortem existence than Rimmer 2.

Yeah I agree, it is more played that way. But then there has to be some reason why they react slightly differently to things – why one Rimmer is slightly more overbearing and the other one slightly more weedy and soft – to an extent that goes beyond just random chaos-theory environmental differences.

[Flap Jack]

True. As I say, I do chalk it up to Rimmer 2 being aware that he’s not the “original” and so being more bitter and defensive as a result. But as a full explanation, your mileage may vary.

[International Debris]

I’ve always loved Waiting for God and don’t get the hate at all. Yes, the satire isn’t subtle, but I think it’s absolutely fine and has some great jokes. The cat priest scene is the first real moment of pathos in the show, one of my favourite scenes in the first series. The oft-mentioned vastness of the ship in this section is also incredibly impressive. I love anything that makes Red Dwarf feel like a huge place, and this is one of the most successful. 

On the whole, the plot does feel like Rob and Doug are exploring what the show could be. As they loosened up on the idea of finding characters and phenomena outside of the ship it became unnecessary, but at this point they’re basically stuck with the three main characters and their histories, and with a potentially huge mythology available with the Cat history, there was a lot to mine there. Had they felt satisfied with how the first series had come out, I wonder how different the second would have been. Would we have had more Cat/Cloister stuff? I suppose also the original Kochanski cliffhanger to Confidence & Paranoia would maybe have given the second series a direction.

The Quagaars stuff is superb and doesn’t need any defending or any other remarks, really. The ending is a classic moment.

Nice spot on Rimmer’s hand movement, Unrumble, I’d never noticed that before.

Confidence & Paranoia is my least favourite in the first series. I’m not sure if it’s because it goes a little bit against the alone in space, no guest characters style of the first series but doesn’t really go the whole hog in the way later ones would do, or the unpleasant nature of both the guests, but it always just felt a bit ‘off’ to me. Still a LOT of great gags, though. Cat is particularly good here, “somebody ate them” always makes me laugh a lot, and his laundry is superb. For some reason I remember Holly having more Agatha Christie lines.

The exterior Red Dwarf set is stunning and I wish they did more stuff like this.

After the medicomp smash is revealed, Rimmer puts his finger up and stalks off as if he has an idea. What?

Rimmer 2 could have been ‘given’ Rimmer 1’s memories, without having actually experienced them himself.

I’ve chosen not to think about Lister and Rimmer’s pasts and careers, there’s no way to really tie them together properly, in the same way that Rimmer contradicts how many time’s he’s sat his exams in Future Echoes and Waiting for God.

[RealBigOleDummy]

Why is it assumed that this is the first time Rimmer “met” his double? He could have met/tested him before his introduction to the others. If so, you KNOW he couldn’t have NOT told his double about that. If for no other reason than to lord it over Lister. In the novel he did test all the ones from the Nova 5 before thinking of himself as a candidate. 

[Loathsome American]

The problem of why Rimmer-2 is noticeably more hostile and aggressive than Rimmer-1 is something I’ve given some thought to. The possibilities as I see them are:

1.) RIMMER-1 AND RIMMER-2 ARE NOT IDENTICAL

This is the (arguably authorial intent) idea that Rimmer-1 has softened over Series I, whereas Rimmer-2 is a “fresh” version. This is the most dramatically satisfying option, I think, because it implies character growth. The downside is that…I’m not sure end-of-Series-I Rimmer has actually undergone enough growth on screen to really sell the idea as well as it should be. Also the fact in-text that Rimmer-2 already seems to be up to speed and able to join in the conversation in real time when he’s booted up.

2.) RIMMER-1 AND RIMMER-2 ARE IDENTICAL

Philosophically there’s an argument that they would both equally be the “real” Rimmer, but neither Rimmer is much of a philosopher. Rimmer-1 makes the argument in the theater that he’s the “real” one just because he was there first; if they really are identical, Rimmer-2 would probably agree with the logic of that despite himself. So either Rimmer-2 is projecting due to an inferiority complex or, with the “survival of the fittest” mindset Rimmer has (or at least “survival of the most weasely”), Rimmer-2 is purposefully trying to drive Rimmer-1 to despair so that Rimmer-1 will volunteer to switch himself off. I think this is the most psychologically interesting option, but there’s even less evidence for this on screen than Rimmer-1’s personal growth. It does solve some of the problems of option #1 though.

3.) RIMMER-2 SHOULD BE IDENTICAL BUT ISN’T FOR SOME OTHER REASON

This could be a corruption of the physical disk (my earlier musing that the skutters might have messed something up bringing the disks outside) or some processing issue Holly is having maintaining two holograms. We see in “Psirens” that the personality aspects are loaded piecemeal, so maybe Rimmer-2 was booted up with his “negative” aspects all dialed up or unbalanced (which long-term might have led to the sort of overload/crash we see even later in “Trojan”). This is the most pleasingly (alternately: the most torturously) fanwanky and can be leveraged for all sorts of theories about why they never tried running a second hologram again, but it does kind of reduce all the character comedy and insight into Rimmer’s personality in “Me2” as some external technology issue.

[Author]

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