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  • #267255
    Welding Mallet
    Participant

    If John-Jules’ had emphasised the “know” rather than the “shop”, then it might not have taken me 27 years to get it. What a senseless waste!;)

    Have a few more:

    Dear old “What’s an iguana?”, of course.

    I didn’t immediately latch on to “Don’t eat greasy food?” as Boyle’s Fourth Law, but stone me it’s such a terrible joke anyway I clearly wasn’t missing much.

    Going to the lengths of making a 1988-friendly reference like “Peter Beardsley” but then pairing it with “Myra Binglebat” seemed odd. Why not “Nina Myskow” or someone?

    “Eastbourne” in ‘White Hole’ was one I gave the Lisa Simpson “traditional-British-wit?” response to for much of my youth!

    I like that Zero-G sports such as Football and Kick Boxing sit so comfortably alongside Wimbledon….

    “Toilet stop in rattlesnake country” was another one, possibly because that’s the only place I haven’t heard it called “bathroom break”..

    #267256
    Welding Mallet
    Participant

    Oh, and in relation to comments waaaaay up-thread, I think the joke is that we’re meant to know “it’s a funny old game” wasn’t Kevin Keegan’s catchphrase. A little on the niche side, but considering that in the next series references to Shay Brennan and Tony Dunne almost made it to broadcast it makes sense.

    “Buchan and McQueen” in ‘Holoship’ has Doug written all over it too.

    #267264
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Similar to the time wand, it was only years later that I saw ‘wand’ being used for everyday things like vacuum cleaners and blind openers. I used to wonder why Kryten had come up with this fancy magical name.

    Huh, I’d never thought of that before. The only ‘wand’ I can think of for household electricals is curling wand (for hair, not that I ever use one, terribly damaging things). Maybe that nomenclature fad* passed me by.

    *assuming it was a fad because I’m not aware of it being current, although it is of course perfectly possible that it is ongoing and I’m just oblivious!

    #267265

    I just assumed it was called a wand because it ostensibly was magical, even if there was “science” underpinning its abilities.

    #267272

    You point a magic wand at things and magic things happen; you point a time wand at things and timey things happen.

    #267447
    clem
    Participant

    In ‘The End’ when the Cat changes his mind about which direction to go in (“No, this way”) and turns around, is that the edge of the set and therefore it’s a subtle metatheatrical joke?

    #267448
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I never got the “Heidegger, Davro, Holder, Quayle – some of the most brilliant minds of the 23rd century” joke from Legion.

    Davro and Holder are obviously supposed to be references to Bobby Davro and Noddy Holder, but the joke never landed because I was too busy thinking about who the hell Heidegger and Quayle were.

    #267449
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Quayle’s covered on page 5, some dated satire. Heidegger was a philosopher, I know that from Monty Python. Since he’s first in the list, probably the straight one.

    It was only ever Davro that stood out as being a joke to me before I knew the others.

    #267461
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Oh yeah Heidegger I get, although his presence in the list as “the straight one” was another thing which threw the joke off for me – it was a list of names where the joke was presumably supposed to be that they weren’t actually great minds, but one of them was based on someone who WAS great and one of them was someone who I didn’t even know.

    Throw in the fact that in the time frame referenced is at least 2 centuries out from the lifetime of the contemporary people they were referencing then it all starts to become something that doesn’t really work well enough in my opinion!

    #267462
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Jokes you didn’t get weren’t about Red Dwarf: In R.E. in year 7, Mr Davies taught us about the significance of “om” chanting and everyone started doing it for a laugh. I thought they were referencing Red Dwarf and was surprised that particular scene was so widely known. It wasn’t a gazpacho soup moment, as I don’t think anyone noticed I was doing the Smeg and the Heads classic.

    #267491
    pi r squared
    Participant

    Oh yeah Heidegger I get, although his presence in the list as “the straight one” was another thing which threw the joke off for me

    It’s an unusual comedic structure, thinking about it: straight, funny, funny, funny. Normally you’d expect it to go funny, funny, funny; or straight, straight, (straight), funny.

    I don’t think I’d ever listened properly to the names as I didn’t realise Davro was one of them! Certainly never linked it to Bobby. I’d always assumed only the last name was the funny one – and didn’t know until this thread or similar why “Quayle” was humorous.

    #267497
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Um, I think you guys are reading too much into this because the studio audience laugh.

    The studio audience laugh because Kryten’s list of these names and their description as “most brilliant minds” is followed by “…of the 23rd century”. These names aren’t supposed to mean anything to us.

    All of the physicists are from the 23rd century. This includes Heidegger – who therefore *isn’t* the same person as philosopher Martin Heidegger (though very likely is a reference to him). Maybe Davro is a reference to Bobby Davro, Quayle a reference to Dan Quayle, and Holder a reference to Noddy Holder, but not convinced it’s the *joke*.

    #267498

    I don’t think anyone is implying that the “the greatest minds” are literally the people referenced. The names are just fun references to modern people, but they clearly aren’t meant to reference the same people in the show.

    #267499
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Do you think the studio audience are laughing at the *names* themselves, Quinn?

    #267500

    Yeah

    #267501
    Warbodog
    Participant

    The studio audience laugh because Kryten’s list of these names and their description as “most brilliant minds” is followed by “…of the 23rd century”. These names aren’t supposed to mean anything to us.

    I don’t think the unfamiliarity itself is all of the joke, though it does subvert the usual sci-fi thing where they list three historical figures from the early 20th century you’ve heard of and throw in just one fictional one from the next few centuries after that.

    Just inappropriate/ironic/random associations like the 27th of Geldof, which I didn’t figure meant Bob in-universe either.

    #267502
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Quayle, I think is a deliberate jokey reference that the studio audience latched onto. The rest of them, no chance.

    #267503

    Just because the studio audience doesn’t laugh until the end, doesn’t mean that those names aren’t there for comedic value.

    What’s better, make up a bunch of random names for scientist in the 23rd century, or use the names of famous people at the time of writing?

    Even if Quayle is the specific “joke” because he was renowned at the time, the other names are still there for comedy.

    #267504
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Davro’s too specific and of its time to not be a reference (‘inappropriate/random’ camp). Holder I don’t really associate with Noddy, but more likely than not. Quayle (‘ironic’ camp) I needed explaining, since I always thought it was just a funny sounding randomer at the end.

    #267505
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    If you’re listing 4 names (and, simply listing them as physicists – not preempting the description as “greatest minds”), the audience is going to instantly forget anything in the middle of that list.

    When Kryten abridges the list later in the episode, he omits Davro and Holder and they become “the others”. They weren’t in that list to be remembered…because only the last one is going to be recalled.

    #267506

    As an absolute complete aside to this, though it has prompted me to remember this from the deep recesses of my mind.

    Does anyone remember that SimCity 2000 used the names of the crew as neighbouring cities to your own?

    #267507
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    What are Bobby Davro and Noddy Holder’s claims to stupidity, anyway? There are certainly more fitting choices if they really wanted to overload this list with thickies.

    #267508

    They’re just topical to the era names that aren’t scientists.

    If anyone is over thinking this Pete it’s you.

    #267509
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I clearly have misunderstood the point of this thread.

    #267510
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    It’s an unusual comedic structure, thinking about it: straight, funny, funny, funny. Normally you’d expect it to go funny, funny, funny; or straight, straight, (straight), funny.

    I don’t think I’d ever listened properly to the names as I didn’t realise Davro was one of them! Certainly never linked it to Bobby. I’d always assumed only the last name was the funny one – and didn’t know until this thread or similar why “Quayle” was humorous.

    I agree with all of this. I think the other names are in there for comedy, but as a secondary later which would mainly be picked up by people who rewatch. The immediate joke to elicit a laugh was Quayle, and the rest are just a bonus.

    I think Heidegger is probably to start it off sounding like these are going to be legitimate, serious, people; I didn’t know who he was but historically the great thinkers haven’t always had English-sounding names so his works on that superficial level as well.

    .
    Who was the guy associated with Daleks? I always get his name and Davro mixed up, so that was my first connotation when catching on to ‘Davro’!

    #267512

    Who was the guy associated with Daleks? I always get his name and Davro mixed up, so that was my first connotation when catching on to ‘Davro’!

    Davros.

    #267513
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Who was the guy associated with Daleks? I always get his name and Davro mixed up, so that was my first connotation when catching on to ‘Davro’!

    Davros.

    Ah, no wonder I got confused. Thanks!

    #267514
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Bobby Davros

    #267515
    Dave
    Participant

    Ah, who can forget that classic Doctor Who catchphrase.

    “Hello everybody peeps, is Davros here innit!”

    #267516

    It wasn’t until this thread that I even knew who Quayle was, the whole joke baffled me. A list of names of 23rd century physicists, how is that funny? I thought.

    #267517
    Jenuall
    Participant

    It always got a pass from me because it’s in Legion which is one of the greatest episodes of all time and is packed with an almost ridiculous number of excellent jokes which all land perfectly.

    #267518
    Dave
    Participant

    I rewatched Legion last week and had almost forgotten how good it was. Between that, Gunmen and Out Of Time – all of which are near-perfect episodes – I feel like VI is a challenger for best series overall, and feels weirdly underrated these days.

    #267527
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    It wasn’t until this thread that I even knew who Quayle was, the whole joke baffled me. A list of names of 23rd century physicists, how is that funny? I thought.

    I always just thought Davro got the laugh, a recognisable, not physicist name; like saying Jedward or something in a list of scientists if you wrote it for X.

    The rest sound normal enough to be physicists so I didn’t think anything of it.

    #267528
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s hard to appreciate it now with someone whose notoriety was as fleeting as Quayle. But he was definitely a regular punchline in general at the time.

    #267529
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I watched Legion last night for the first time in years and didn’t think it was all that great after the perfect Starbug scenes, which was disappointing, since I’ve always considered it a top 10. That puts it between those other two outstanding episodes (watched recently enough to know I still love) and the other three that are okay, but I don’t ever really feel like watching for different reasons.

    I still might prefer VI to a couple of the early series, but it’s gone from being my nostalgic favorite growing up (I still get a unique warmth from its associated production photos and smeg ups) to feeling like the beginning of an inevitable decline that Rob sticking around wouldn’t have saved. But maybe I’ll change my mind the next time I watch one.

    #267531
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    This site; has a published copy of the fan References Project from 1996. (http://www.ganymede-titan.info/docs/references/tv.php ). This suggests (with the caveat that this is “speculation”) that “Davro” is Bobby Davro and “Holder” is… Alfred Theophil Holder.

    Now, you could argue that the list was compiled by an Australian who may have been unaware of the HUGE prominence of Noddy Holder in the UK three years earlier, but it still hammers home that there are a few notable people with the surname Holder.

    Either way, it can’t be an
    overt *reference* to both Alfred Holder and Noddy Holder, and the fact that “Holder” itself isn’t intrinsically identifiable as a surname to one particular person, means it’s questionable that it’s either.

    By the same logic, I call the Bobby Davro link shenanigans, and the Heidegger thing *just a name for a list*.

    #267533
    Jenuall
    Participant

    So basically the whole joke is just a pile of garbage, foreshadowing the descent into crap like the clitoris line from Timewave! :P

    I watched Legion last night for the first time in years and didn’t think it was all that great after the perfect Starbug scenes, which was disappointing, since I’ve always considered it a top 10. That puts it between those other two outstanding episodes (watched recently enough to know I still love) and the other three that are okay, but I don’t ever really feel like watching for different reasons.

    I still might prefer VI to a couple of the early series, but it’s gone from being my nostalgic favorite growing up (I still get a unique warmth from its associated production photos and smeg ups) to feeling like the beginning of an inevitable decline that Rob sticking around wouldn’t have saved. But maybe I’ll change my mind the next time I watch one.

    I watched it last night myself (although it was far from being the first time in years!) and still found it to be an exceptionally enjoyable episode. The peak of the episode is absolutely the Starbug sections in the opening, I don’t think that sequence has ever been topped in terms of consistency and frequency of laughs. But personally I still love pretty much everything after they arrive on Legion’s station (and the model shots for that sequence are spot on as well!)

    The humour does get a touch “broader” with more visual gags which will obviously please some more than others, but I still think the dialog and performances are really up there and the second half of the episode features two more of my top moments – the light switch line and Kryten’s delivery of “there’s no such thing as an Ionian never grip now stand still while I hit you!”

    #267534
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I found Kryten pretty annoying in it. Still a classic anyway, like most of the show.

    Psirens is a strange one, I saw it years later than the rest, so it feels disconnected and almost like VII to me (maybe because of Last Human recycling too), but funnier. Gunmen is deservedly acclaimed and doesn’t get old. Emohawk we’ve overly slagged off enough, but apart from the planet scenes, it all feels below par to me. I enjoy Rimmerworld’s slower pace, but it’s quite the filler episode. Out of Time is amazing.

    #267535
    Dave
    Participant

    Out Of Time’s opening scene with the morale meeting is one that somehow only seems to get funnier the more I watch it. Chris Barrie on top form (“and as for the Cat, what an unbelievable git”) but the reactions are all fantastic too. Just a wonderful sketch all round.

    #267536

    Out of Time is a top five episode for me, but the rest of VI still feels like a step down from everything that came before. It’s still magnificently funny for the most part, and has some great imaginative bits, but it feels like it’s treading water and mostly lacking in the pathos that is a key ingredient in the show’s magic for me. Gag-for-gag, it’s probably on par with the rest of the bubble, but it still feels slightly… off.
    First time she watched it, my girlfriend thought it was the first post-Rob series, she found it that jarring and unfunny.

    #267537
    Jenuall
    Participant

    The discussion on where to “draw the line” on when the “classic” era of Dwarf ended is always an interesting one. Some will have you believe that the change from 2 to 3 is where it “went wrong”, others see abandoning Red Dwarf and Holly for 6 was a step too far, and some strange people think that VII and even VIII are still “up there with the best”

    There’s obviously no right answer, apart from the fact that the right answer is series 1-6 are the golden age. ;)

    For me if you take each series as a whole then the only thing that VI is inferior to is V, but then I think V is the absolute pinnacle of the show so that’s not exactly a damning statement!

    I’m definitely biased though in that VI was my introduction to the show (other than a few snippets of V that I saw on broadcast, but it was my brother who was into it then and not me so I wasn’t really watching properly at that point!)

    I do always wonder how much the circumstances of the creation of VI affected things, Rob and Doug coming off the back of struggling to get Red Dwarf USA going, being pushed to produce the scripts faster for an earlier broadcast slot that then didn’t actually get used etc. it’s unsurprising that there was something of a shift to a more repeatable pattern of episode when you consider the circumstances.

    #267538
    si
    Participant

    Series VI was the first series I had any kind of advance knowledge of. In this Internet age, where we read rumours, spoilers, pre-production details, and of upcoming storylines all the time, it was amazing to have read stuff in the Smegazine about new Red Dwarf before it was on TV.
    It was like being in a special club.

    #267539
    Dave
    Participant

    I remember having read the Psirens script before it went out, which felt weird.

    #267540

    Spoilers in the 90s wasn’t really a thing was it. Details would be revealed to entice you into watching a show. Hell, that still happens now with soaps and such. But you’d regularly see details in TV guides things about shows weeks before they aired.

    I distinctly remember knowing the character of John Hallam was going to die in London’s Burning the actor went off on a round the world boat race. So I was allowed to stay up that Sunday and watch it go out rather than wait to watch in taped the next day.

    If you knew something like that now there’d be fucking outrage wouldn’t there.

    Hell we even knew Chris was leaving right? Not quite the same thing now returning characters are tried to be kept secret probably in a way the wouldn’t have been back then.

    #267541
    Warbodog
    Participant

    The series VI intro really doesn’t give a shit about spoiling the Polymorph/Duane/Ace returns. XI’s was more coy (I didn’t pick up on it, even though I’d listened to that Richard Herring podcast where Ian Boldsworth mentioned a Polymorph – I just thought he was talking trivia generally).

    I don’t think VII’s intro hints that Chris is being replaced by Chloe for those who hadn’t read up on it. You wouldn’t know who the woman was supposed to be either. I was surprised recently to see that the Space Corps Survival Manual was published a few months in advance of VII, featuring Kochanski and her characterisation already.

    #267542
    Dave
    Participant

    Yeah, again that felt like a big deal at the time because it was a first real glimpse of VII.

    #267543
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Had to get the book out for the Christmas market.

    (Also, not Red Dwarf, but anyone who complains about trailers these days spoiling the plot hasn’t seen 80s film trailers that abridged the entire story in chronological order).

    #267544
    clem
    Participant

    I remember having read the Psirens script before it went out, which felt weird.

    I became a fan during the ’94 repeats, but because Psirens was left out of that run and VI didn’t come out on video til the following year I still read the script before I saw the episode.

    #267546

    I had no idea about Chris leaving in VII so it was a pretty big thing when it happened.

    VI was my first series as a fan, and the first series I taped, and it’s still my least favourite of the Rob-era, which should be a good counter to any “your first is your favourite” theories.

    I think, more than anything else, the internet has made us more critical, as people in general. And this is both good and bad. It’s enabled people to express their dislike of things, not feel alone in said dislike, and even be able to voice this dislike towards creators. It also means it’s harder to just enjoy things as they come along, as was the case in the ’90s, as we’re now able to express our opinions and discuss them – to the extent that we’re often <i>expected</i> to do so – and thus simple personal enjoyment is not the defining feature of any form of art or media these days. Which I think is a very bad thing.

    #267782
    Russ L
    Participant

    I love that the flashback to the Aigburth Arms shows some kind of futuristic pub whilst when they go back to see 17 year old Lister in Timeslides and it’s just a normal contemporary 1980s pub.

    I know it would have been done for budget reasons in Series III but I quite liked that the earlier parts of the show kind of gave the impression that the world hadn’t actually changed all that much
    In the future, pool will be shit because the tables are suspended on chains.
    I can only really think of one sport/game where the flatness and immovability of the playing surface is absolutely fundamental, has to be out no more than half a millimetre end to end, a quarter of a millimetre across the width, and that’s the one they hung from chains.
    Suppose you could explain it away with GRAV POOL but good luck with any shot you need to approach from the corner when there’s a massive chain in the way.

    Zero G Pool.

    Apart from the Gs that make it necessary to suspend it with chains. They’re not important Gs.

    #267822
    Rudolph
    Participant

    What I always think, when I see the the Aigburth Arms scene in Ouroboros, is that it feels like the only time they’ve bothered to make the future look, well, futuristic.

    The pub has a very industrial look, and what brief glimpses we have outside of it show twinkling lights, indicating that Liverpool has grown into something like Mega-City One from Judge Dredd. Even Frank and the barmaid are wearing leather outfits similar to what Lister wears in later years.

    Previous to that, the future appeared to be just now but with better gadgets. People still wore shirts, ties, t-shirts, baseball caps, bomber jackets etc. All clothing that wouldn’t be out of place in the late twentieth/early twenty-first centuries.

    #267823
    Dave
    Participant

    Yeah, there’s quite some contrast between the pub in Ouroboros and the pub in Timeslides.

    Maybe it was just a faux-futuristic interior design trend that everyone had grown out of by the time Lister was in a band.

    #267824

    I’d never really considered it to be futuristic. But now you mention it, and I just rewatched it, I see where you’re coming from.

    I always say it as really dive-y and rough, which it is, but it definitely has elements of future in it.

    The door is a futuristic coffin shape, I’d never notice the twinkly lights outside but they’re there … and it makes it look more like the interior of a space station than a pub in Liverpool. Especially with everything being metal and riveted.

    I don’t think the clothing really matters too much. Lister just has a similar style to the people he grew up around. Except for a brief period in his teens when he ostensibly rebelled and dressed like a disco ball with wings.

    Other than Timeslides and Ouroborus, we don’t see any other future Earth so it’s hard to say what it’s like really.

    The Aigbuth Arms is future-y, but there’s plenty of old pubs and buildings that stand now from hundreds of years ago. It’s not unusual for the pub in Timeslides to have a 1980s interior feel, when there’s pub that have pre-victorian feels knocking around.

    Other than that, we see rich Lister and a butler. And upperclass “fashion” always seems to revolve around suits and shit so that stands that it would survive.

    #267825
    clem
    Participant

    The Aigbuth Arms is future-y, but there’s plenty of old pubs and buildings that stand now from hundreds of years ago. It’s not unusual for the pub in Timeslides to have a 1980s interior feel, when there’s pub that have pre-victorian feels knocking around.

    Isn’t the pub in Timeslides meant to be The Aigburth Arms as well then? I like Dave’s theory for why it looks the way it does in Ouroboros because I always think that scene’s a bit naff, too sort of route-one dystopian future. Alternatively, by the time Smeg and The Heads are playing there The Aigburth Arms has become a late 1980s theme pub.

    #267826
    Dave
    Participant

    In fairness one or two of the clubs I used to go out to in the 90s looked quite like the Ouroboros pub design – all hard angles and industrial materials, like a zone from the Crystal Maze but where you could get shitfaced.

    So it’s reasonable to think it could just be a fashion thing and yeah, maybe Smeg and the Heads are playing in a retro place, a deliberately old-fashioned boozer.

    #267827

    The Ouroboros pub is a really, really ninetiesy vision of the future. It feels kind of quaint now. But it fits the era of the show quite well, because VII in particular feels like everything exists in a sci-fi universe, whereas the III pub fits its own era well because the reality of the show was still pretty down-to-earth and humdrum at that point.

    #267828
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    The Ouroboros pub is a really, really ninetiesy vision of the future. It feels kind of quaint now. But it fits the era of the show quite well, because VII in particular feels like everything exists in a sci-fi universe, whereas the III pub fits its own era well because the reality of the show was still pretty down-to-earth and humdrum at that point.

    The universe of Red Dwarf got a bit more dystopian around III really, got our first genetically engineered life form, then simulants, the first book came out too which is also on it’s way to dystopia if not dystopian. I’ve not read it for a while but I feel like it is, grungy brothels, grand theft auto, massive corporations running everything, companies blowing up stars for advertising purposes etc.

    #267829

    Isn’t the pub in Timeslides meant to be The Aigburth Arms as well then?

    I never thought it was, just a random pub the band were playing in.

    The Ouroboros pub is a really, really ninetiesy vision of the future.

    It looks like part of a Laser Quest arena which would track with exactly that.

    #267830
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Yeah the Laser Quest comparison is spot on.

    I much prefer series III’s “the future hasn’t really changed much” vibe. The inclination when doing anything Sci-Fi is to portray the future as being a complete change from what we have today – flying cars! holograms everywhere!! cyborg people!!! NEON!!!!!

    But the reality is that these never pan out – yes technology develops and styles change, but never in the ridiculous way that most sci-fi tends to suggest. Back to the Future’s 2015 looks ridiculous now, Blade Runner’s 2019 likewise. Most projections of the future from sci-fi are inherently stupid and rarely reflect on the realities of how a society actually progresses.

    That’s why Timeslides “just a normal pub” always felt great to me, even if the fact it looked that way was almost certainly down to budget/time reasons rather than any particular desire to show the future as “basically the same as now”

    #267831
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Back to the Future’s 2015 looks ridiculous now, Blade Runner’s 2019 likewise.

    Not really good examples though, Back to the Future was doing jokes about the future extrapolating 1980s trends mixed with hokey sci-fi tropes and Blade Runner’s all unrealistically symbolic and deliberately anachronistic.

    #267832

    Yeah, the actual ‘futuristic’ stuff we have all feels a bit more mundane. 25 years ago, something like Alexa would have been mind-blowing, as would iPhones and vaccines with microchips sending biodata to Bill Gates (lol), but they’re things that crept up and became day-to-day household items.
    There are definitely differences in interior decor – we’re in a very stark era of plain while walls in homes and craft beer pubs with exposed piping – but the Aigburth Arms feels really cartoony because it’s going for ‘sci-fi’ rather than ‘fashion’.

    #267833

    I know with Red Dwarf we’re talking hundreds of years rather than a few decades, but even then you can usually point to things and see the progression.

    Like, iPhones might be mind blowing but also you can break them down to all the different things that did exist in the 70s and 80s and just track their development 30-40 years on.

    And we’ve had sci-fi prepping us for a lot of these things for decades. Phones, smart watches, computers that talk … hell, Red Dwarf is in a way partly responsible for our easy acceptance of things like Alexa.

    Whilst decor and styles change, core functions don’t. Like, why the fuck would you hang a pool table form the ceiling? And why, after millennia of doors being rectangular, would you suddenly make them any other shape? Especially on a planet.

    #267838
    Warbodog
    Participant

    ‘Grav-Pool’ suggests the table should hover like a Star Trek anti-grav pallet, so I can only make sense of the chains meaning that either

    a) the table’s knackered and no longer gravs, adding to the character of the place (my preferred option, but a bit too subtle)

    b) it’s turned off, they turn on the anti-grav and remove the chains when someone wants to play, presumably with a blue glow and distracting hum… then have to bother chaining it to the ceiling again after

    c) the show couldn’t work out how to make the table float convincingly, so this was a shit compromise on the day

    #267839

    ‘Grav-Pool’ suggests the table should hover like a Star Trek anti-grav pallet, so I can only make sense of the chains meaning that either

    You say that, and I suspect that is what they were going for. But …

    Grav-pool is just “gravity-pool” … which is just normal pool. It’s not Anti-Grav or Zero-G.

    That said I prefer option A of your solutions to the chains.

    #267840
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I used to have the idea it was like air hockey and the balls would hover and glide or something, but that sounds even less appealing to play than normal pool on an unnecessarily hovering table. No idea, but watching that Ouroboros clip again after reading these descriptions was funny.

    #267848
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I always assumed it was something along the lines of air hockey as well, even if the thought of hitting some kind of floating balls around a table suspended from chains sounds like a terrible way to spend time!

    #267850
    Dave
    Participant

    When I first watched it I think I visualised it as some kind of 3D pool where the balls could go up in the air as well as along the table. A cube-shaped table essentially. How that would actually work though, fuck knows.

    #267851

    surely the point of pool is that it’s played on a single plane.

    Unless you made the “table” the inside of a cub and somehow where able to play in that 3D space from the outside

    #267852
    Dave
    Participant

    Yeah, I hadn’t really fully thought it through. But then neither had they.

    (Essentially 3D pool is what Lister plays with planets though, isn’t it.)

    #267853

    Pool with planets is sort of meant to be the exception though isn’t it. Lister sees it as 2D and says he’ll take the shot, but Rimmer reminds him that, amongst other things, it’s a 3D situation.

    He also has the benefit of being able to fire a nuclear warhead into a sun to take the shot.

    #267854
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Grav-pool is just “gravity-pool” … which is just normal pool. It’s not Anti-Grav or Zero-G.

    So maybe there is Zero-Gee Pool that’s more popular in the 22nd century but more expensive to buy and this is a Classic Pool table that pathetically wants to be the next best thing by wobbling when players lean on it.

    #267899
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I think that maybe the chains are meant to keep the grav-pool table from moving too far away from a set location rather than to hold the table up, although that might have been their function in our real world that lacks anti-gravity technology.

    I.e. imagine the table hovering without anything to tether it. Any little bump would send it flying across the room. The chains would prevent that.

    That amount of chains does seem rather overcompensating, though.

    #267900

    So they are a solution to a problem created by inventing a game that in itself is rather untenable.

    Just put bloody legs on your table and let gravity do its job!

    #267908
    si
    Participant

    I always figured the chains would get in the way of anyone trying to lean over the table to take a shot.

    #267909
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Grav-Pool is actually played on a completely normal pool table, but with modified game rules written by Pool World Champion of the 22nd century, Arabella Gravenstein.

    #267923
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I always figured the chains would get in the way of anyone trying to lean over the table to take a shot.

    The 23rd century equivalent of getting stuck trying to play a shot where the table is too close to a wall

    #268108
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    The cinzano joke thread that was more than settled by robs tweet and Ian’s detailed logical analysis of comedy. I’ve just heard it in a version front Doug and rob in son of cliche’ weird dimension episode. Chris Barrie reading describes the dawn of time and says if the whole of time was a day with a party dinosaurs turn up late drunk, and mankind doesn’t arrive until 3am and there is only Cinzano left to drink.

    #268109
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Just reading back over the history of this topic now to find that one.

    Wow. Some people actually thought the joke was that Cinzano Bianco would stain the table?! :D

    I got a good laugh off that, so thanks crazy interpretation people!

    #268111

    Happy to inspire some smugness.

    #268112
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I wasn’t intending to engage smug mode there so apologies if it came across like that!

    #268113
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Not really a joke I didn’t get, more one that doesn’t really make sense on any deeper inspection: Cat’s “lucky you didn’t order a double cheeseburger!” line in Bodyswap.

    It’s a great line and definitely worthy of the laugh it gets, but it doesn’t really work within the logic of the situation. The joke interpretation is along the lines of ‘a double cheeseburger is a bigger order than a milkshake and crunchy bar therefore would result in an even worse outcome for them!’ except the reality is that nothing about the rewiring implies it would have caused a bigger problem. Either ordering anything from the vending machine would have triggered the self destruct or each order would have been wired up to something entirely random so a cheeseburger would have caused something entirely different and most likely not as bad!

    #268114
    Dave
    Participant

    I think you’ve just summarised exactly why it’s funny.

    #268115
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Yeah, that’s always made it a bit funnier for me. We’re conditioned to laugh at whatever he’s going to say anyway, and it comes out more hahadoesntevenmakesense!

    #268116
    Warbodog
    Participant

    If we’re going to ruin jokes through internally consistent logic, gynaecologist Rimmer’s deathday cake would be a speculum – not what you thought!

    Actually, shouldn’t Holly’s postman example have really been ‘postbox’ to set up the punchline? The mental image comes through pretty clear anyway.

    (Lister baking him that cake is a nice callback to Balance of Power).

    #268117
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    LISTER: Oh, I don’t know, you know. I had this Geography teacher, Miss Foster. She took us on a school summer camp trip to Deganwy. I had the tent next to hers, right. And in the middle of the night I was woken up by this really weird noise. _She_ didn’t think men were better than machines.

    I get this joke. I just want to point out that I think it’s rubbish, so I’m posting it here.

    #268118
    Jenuall
    Participant

    These episodes are 30 years old at this point, all that’s left to do is over analyse the jokes!

    #268119

    Ah yes, the “lol sex toys” joke. I didn’t get it on first watch, it clicked not too long after, and I’ve still never laughed at it.

    #268120

    Boring sods, I think it’s amusing.

    Maybe she was shagging her service robot.

    #268121
    Jenuall
    Participant

    It’s not the best joke in the world but it gets a chuckle from me at least. Craig potentially oversells the line a bit

    #268122
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    It’s not the best joke in the world but it gets a chuckle from me at least. Craig potentially oversells the line a bit

    I think this is it, but then I actually like the “what’s an iguana?” joke, even Craig’s delivery so what do I know.

    #268127
    Dave
    Participant

    Maybe she was shagging her service robot.

    I think there’s a Kochanski/Kryten fanfic in this.

    #268128
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I’d be 99% sure that such fanfic already exists.

    Kryten would be a safer fuck than Hudzen-10, that guys groinal attachment can snap bricks in half!

    It’s not the best joke in the world but it gets a chuckle from me at least. Craig potentially oversells the line a bit

    I think this is it, but then I actually like the “what’s an iguana?” joke, even Craig’s delivery so what do I know.

    The iguana line often gets held up as evidence of Craig’s early crap acting (and it kind of is) but I quite like the innocence with which he belts it out!

    #268133

    It’s just occurred to me … we all point to Dear Dave as a crap repeat of an earlier better joke, Lister humping a vending machine and Rimmer walking in. But actually, Kryten given Kochanski the heimlich maneuver is closer to the Polymorph original … as it’s clearly meant to look like he is ramming her from behind, but there’s no character to walk in and catch it.

    #268134
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I didn’t take it as sexual, but I haven’t watched the episode since I was about 12. Just watched the clip again and I still don’t think that’s the intention, but the visual is there.

    #268135
    Dave
    Participant

    I’d be 99% sure that such fanfic already exists.

    It was a reference to a once-infamous fanfic that does indeed exist.

    Click if you dare.

    #268136
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s just occurred to me … we all point to Dear Dave as a crap repeat of an earlier better joke, Lister humping a vending machine and Rimmer walking in. But actually, Kryten given Kochanski the heimlich maneuver is closer to the Polymorph original … as it’s clearly meant to look like he is ramming her from behind, but there’s no character to walk in and catch it.

    See also: Officer Rimmer.

    #268139
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I didn’t take it as sexual, but I haven’t watched the episode since I was about 12. Just watched the clip again and I still don’t think that’s the intention, but the visual is there.

    I think the visual was only ever selling that intention when it was used in the opening credits sequence.

    #268145

    I would imagine everyone involved was aware of how it looked and certainly didn’t play down any humour the audience would have got from that interpretation, but at the same time the joke clearly works just as well (however well that is) without needing that element.

    #268156

    Here’s something I’ve realised I’ve never understood. Who were The Boston Doyles? Presumably a family of notoriety and money? But who? Is it something the show made up?

    I did a quick google and the main results point to a reason of Mafia Romance books

    #268157
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    Here’s something I’ve realised I’ve never understood. Who were The Boston Doyles? Presumably a family of notoriety and money? But who? Is it something the show made up?

    I did a quick google and the main results point to a reason of Mafia Romance books

    Would be right up Rob and Doug’s street for it to be Boston, Lincolnshire as apposed to Boston, Massachusetts. Have everyone thinking of a rich family descended from the pilgrims that arrived on the Mayflower or something, when in fact it was a bloke called Fred Doyle who played up front for Boston United FC in the 1974-75 season.

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