Marleen’s NO SPOILERS Doctor Who Thread – Part II

[John Hoare]

This thread continues this discussion. The topic was split because the system kept running out of memory. Wankers.

Topic

[TheLeen]

Cheers :D

[Seb Patrick]

And for those not keeping up, the episode we’d reached at the current state of play was The Girl In The Fireplace. So please don’t post anything relating to new series episodes beyond that until Marleen does.

[Andrew]

> So please don?t post anything relating to new series episodes beyond that until Marleen does.

“Dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-dum-da-dum-da-dum…”

That’s the theme tune from the next episode. I’m such a rebel.

[TheLeen]

God, I love you guys. :D

[Ben Paddon]

And we love you too. Because, y’know, we’re nice like that.

[Tanya Jones]

>By the way, some three months ago I dreamt that I could manipulate the universe through pseudo SQL queries. I left-joined the kitchen to the bedroom for quicker access to the fridge. Awesome.

I hope you ensured that you in the bedroom = you in the kitchen, otherwise you could have been in a whole heap of trouble.

[Jonathan Capps]

If more ladies made SQL jokes then this world would be a far nicer place to live in.

[TheLeen]

> I hope you ensured that you in the bedroom = you in the kitchen, otherwise you could have been in a whole heap of trouble.

XD

Tbh I don’t remember the exact details, but I think the primary key I used was some sort of room index inside the flat… or something. It was quite cool because I “saw” the tables and relations as kind of a second, see-through layer before visible reality. That’s why the building blocks stuff reminded me of it.

The night before that I’d had a dream that all my work colleagues were handpuppets, and our product line manager was the unintended clown of the piece. (The audience of 5-year-olds thought he was hysterically funny.) I think I work too much.

[Ben Paddon]

I dreamt last night that I’d been employed by Angel Investigations. Spike had teamed up with Drucilla again and Angel had me call Spike on his cellphone to shake him down for information. He was remarkably forthcoming with information.

Of course, the dream started slightly more bizarrely. An old man, who I’m fairly sure was an Eastenders character although I haven’t seen the show since I moved to LA, had a heart attack at a funeral, and the next thing I know I’ve woken up in a coffin on an ocean liner. The top and side comes off and there are people (I forget who) informing me that I’d better take a shower because using a used coffin as a means of transportation has karmic impact. I climb out of the coffin and a moldy skeletal leg falls out behind me with perfect comic timing. Then I had a shower.

I realise we’ve strayed somewhat from the original topic at hand, which is… erm… hats?

[TheLeen]

W00t, series three is down to 35 quid. *click*

[TheLeen]

Episode 2×05 – Rise of the Cybermen
Episode 2×06 – The Age of Steel

Good

– There was some funny lines in there, especially in Rise of the Cybermen.
– Cybermen.
– Continuity. (As in Pete, Ricky, … erhm. That’s it.)
– Archetypical bad guy. I like evil scientists. Not in real life, of course.
– I liked how the design of the cybermen seemed to have evolved from the earplug antennae.
– I liked the president.

Ungood

– But there were also a lot of very corny lines. Like the Doctor’s speech before his other speech (the code one – that one was okay).
– I had a feeling everything would change for Mickey, but him just staying there in place of dead Ricky, hm, I don’t know, is so clich?. I expected him to at least turn evil, or something entirely different.
– Hm. And: getting rid of Mickey when he just started to be fun! I’m going to miss him!
– How did the daily download work for people driving cars?

Miscellaneous

– Giving the episode the name “Rise of the Cybermen” really took away from the suspension. Glad that there was at least no teaser at the end of the episode though spoiling the second part.
– Exploding heads.
– Exploding everything.
– Welsh accent is so so weird.
– Rose just loves to hang down from a zeppelin, doesn’t she. Is that sort of a running gag? Will she be doing it in series three, too? I’ll find out!
– Did the writers have anything specific in mind to come back to when they wrote the Doctor calling him “Ricky” for the first time?
– Well, I don’t know how the Cybermen evolved in the Doctor’s universe, but if the two incidents were connected by a greater frame, that would be nice. I know in two parallel worlds, such things could just happen to happen, but still.

On Doctors Nine & Ten

– Forgot to mention it last week: last week I almost forgot my grief for the Ninth Doctor since the episode was brilliant and also seemed to suit the Tenth Doctor’s style well. In fact, I said to Vincent (half-jokingly), what was it again that was so brilliant about the Ninth Doctor?
– But now the Cybermen episodes on the other hand would have fit the Ninth Doctor better as they were dark and brooding and about loss and pain.

Summary

I liked the first part better than the second (and especially than its ending).
I’d been looking forward to my first Cybermen episode and, well, I can’t say I’m disappointed because it was kind of epic (being a two-parter and Mickey’s finale), but for such an epic pair of episodes, it was not all that. It should have felt better than average.

Haha, look at me, five months ago I had no idea what Doctor Who was about, and I’m already complaining like a spoilt child.

[Ian Symes]

Haha, look at me, five months ago I had no idea what Doctor Who was about, and I?m already complaining like a spoilt child.

ONE OF US.

[ChrisM]

>- I liked the president.

Did you recognize him? If not, check out Holoship for a younger model. In a dodgy jumpsuit. In a particularly great gag.

(I suddenly feel paranoid as it’s while since I saw that Cyberman episode, but I think my memory is correct. I’m sure it’s him.)

[TheLeen]

Oooooh yeah, of course! Hadn’t realised, although his voice and mouth seemed very familiar. That’s why he landed on the “I liked” list then. Oooooh! *marvels*

[TheLeen]

Oh and by the way: Torchwood.

– Torchwood institute… bla bla bla… published a study.

Hm. The Bad Wolf stuff was scarier, because it seemed a lot more random in the beginning (which, sadly, it actually was).

[Dave]

>How did the daily download work for people driving cars?

Oh yeah, I hadn’t thought of that.

>Welsh accent is so so weird

What? You’ve just sat through 90 minutes of Nick Briggs pronouncing the G in “DELETE” and you find the Welsh weird?

[Pete Part Three]

>And: getting rid of Mickey when he just started to be fun! I?m going to miss him!

Agreed. He annoyed me no end in the first series (and I DETEST that scene in Rose where he’s transformed into a dummy or whatever), but he grew on me a lot in the second.

[TheLeen]

> pronouncing the G in ?DELETE?

What?

[TheLeen]

Episode 2×07 – The Idiot’s Lantern

On the good:

– Telly talking to you. I mean, YOU. I love it when that happens.
– Telly doing holographic hex vision.
– Faceless people. I love it.
– Rose clearly had fun talking to Eddie Connolly, and so did we.
– The special effect of the creature looking out of the telly was very nice.

On the rest:

– And there was us thinking the lantern’s idiot could be Mickey.
– Faceless people. I love it. No wait. HOW?
– The Wire looking out of the telly… HOW?
– Another villain decides to give away its plan before trying to kill its enemies. They never learn!
– I thought they gave away the creature’s motivation too early (“So hungry!). Would have been nice to be left wondering for a little longer what sort of conspiracy was going on…
– And we don’t know too much about The Wire, where it came from, what sort of being it was… I don’t suppose it matters much but that’s still a bit sad.

On zombies:

– Last time, metal zombies. This time, telly zombies. Zombies zombies zombies.

On the Doctor:

– He’s alright. Sometimes gets on my nerves a bit with the shouting, especially in “heureka” moments. But he’s alright.

On Torchwood:

– Apparently Torchwood is all over the media and every little police officer talks about it. Then no wonder the PM has heard of it. So how come that in Rose’s present it is quite suddenly supposed to be ONE BIG SECRET?

And all in all:

Nice (though historically probably totally irrelevant) little “fun” episode that made no sense whatsoever but was very entertaining nonetheless, and also very visual. I liked it.

[Tanya Jones]

> Nice (though historically probably totally irrelevant) little ?fun? episode that made no sense whatsoever but was very entertaining nonetheless, and also very visual. I liked it.

Yes. A lot of other people were getting irritated with the shouting at this point, but I enjoyed the energy and fun between the Doctor and Rose.

[ChrisM]

As for the faceless people, that was really creepy wasn’t it?

I’d like to know how they continued to breathe though. Wire magic, no doubt. ;)

[TheLeen]

Episode 2×08 – The Impossible Planet
Episode 2×09 – The Satan Pit

Hah, this was a bit Event Horizon, mixed with Sphere, with a dash of The Fifth Element, and what was that Star Trek: TNG episode featuring the devil? Oh, and the Alien tunnel scene.

Stuff that I loved:

– The setting. I’m not usually a lover of this sort of flick (I mean Event Horizon, Sphere etc) but it was nicely different from other Who episode settings.
– Although the subject of the devil being an ancient “evil” lifeform that has influenced a whole number of cultures (earth or otherwise) isn’t exactly new, I wasn’t bored one second.
– Vin liked that the sonic srewdriver wasn’t used once throughout the two episodes (except in the teaser right in the beginning).

Other stuff to be said:

– Well, I’m used to telly (or film) heroes getting more than a human’s usual share of good fortune (aka The Luck of Heroes), but the Doctor was really, really tempting fate there. I mean, he’s usually doing that a bit, but this time I felt a line was crossed. But then, he was under the telepathic influence of The Beast, so I suppose he’s got an excuse. He’d better get his priorities straight though for the next few episodes (1. find TARDIS, 2. save universe, 3. save Rose, 4. risk his life for a bit of fun). Why DID he give up the search for the TARDIS so soon, especially when he was going to go down anyway? Last time I checked, he had a remote control, too… and we know that he did have his sonic everythingdriver on him.
– The writing on the wall could have been either ANCIENT!, or, you know, nonsense ;)
– So, there was no oxygen in the maintenance tunnels, but simple grills between them and the living area, … lol.

Zombie stuff:

– Slave zombies! It was nice to see the Ood (I’d heard the term before not knowing who or what they were). They look really great with their Davy Jones style tentacles. But I hope there is more to them than wanting to serve…

Doctor X stuff:

– Yeah yeah, okay, I like him. I don’t like it when him and Rose go all “and then we went there and did that and do you remember them, ha ha ha, wasn’t that just brilliant”, it’s annoying. But there wasn’t much of that in these two particular episodes. And in the end when the Doctor was in the pit, going “yeah no yeah no”, that was very cute.
– Didn’t think of Doctor IX once.

Torchwood stuff:

– Aha, more humans to deal with space stuff, more Torchwood. Nothing fundamentally new there.

And all in all:

– I thought it was an excellent pair of episodes. Vin liked them, too. Very entertaining and relatively good cgi (I thought anyway). The plot seemed a little bit very very much constructed, but hey. Entertaining nonetheless and I’m going to rank it between the good episodes I enjoyed and the excellent Moffat ones, all the way up there.

[Seb Patrick]

>I?m going to rank it between the good episodes I enjoyed and the excellent Moffat ones, all the way up there.

That’s pretty much how most of us tend to think of that two-parter, I think. You may have noticed that there’s a pattern to each series, in the sense that there’s a “blockbuster two-parter” early on (wide, accessible story with big monsters), and then a more “adult two-parter” later (as with The Empty Child last year). Most people will generally agree that the adult two-parters present pretty much the best the show has to offer – you’re in for a treat when you get to next year’s, let me tell you.

[Ian Symes]

And you’re going to come in your pants when you get to the Series 4 adult two-parter…

[TheLeen]

Yeah, I’m already looking forward (a bit too much) to… everything. I’ve got series three here, but I will eventually get to a point where I cannot watch two new episodes each weekend.

TOO SOON.

By the way, David Tennant’s German voice makes him sound younger and even a bit hotter. Oooh.

[TheLeen]

Episode 2×10 – Love & Monsters

Oooookay… let’s get this over with…

This was the good stuff:

– The webcam thing seemed fun (at first).
– Jackie was really sweet.
– Bunch of nerds off the blogosphere = a good thing.

This was the bad stuff:

– Way too much webcam and way too little story.
– The story was really quite silly.
– No satisfactory ending.
– Crap monster.

And finally:

– WHERE WAS THE DOCTOR?! How many lines did him and Rose have in that episode, combined? Five? Lame. I suppose there’s some good reason for this. Or so I hope.

All in all:

– Crap story, crap monster and crap resolution(s) = crap episode.
Well, it wasn’t that bad, at least it was a little fun to watch, but within the scope of Doctor Who it’s certainly somewhere at the lower end of the enjoyment scale. I kind of feel like having watched no Who at all, and am awfully glad that I don’t have to wait one week but can have another, hopefully better, one tomorrow. So, it wasn’t actually a Who episode. Mayb The Christmas Invasion and Love & Monsters together count as one whole episode, so there is still 13 in series two of Who. But only just.

[Seb Patrick]

Okay, so – the “good reason”.

Basically, the way the production “year” is structured and scheduled is for a 13 episode run. But since they introduced the Christmas specials, they’re basically doing 14 episodes in a 13 episode time frame.

Soooo, each year from series two onwards, there’s what we call the “Doctor-lite” episode. It’s an episode shot simultaneously with another one, that requires little time from the lead actors. Love & Monsters is the first example, it’s a shame you didn’t like it (I love it) but it IS a very divisive episode in terms of fan opinion.

Incidentally, series three’s Doctor-lite episode is THE BEST THING THAT HAS BEEN ON TV EVER. So all hope is not lost ;-)

Oh, and the monster? Designed by an eight-year-old for a kids’ TV competition ;-)

[TheLeen]

OH?! Gosh, now I’m sorry I said it was crap :D

(Some of those eight-year-old fans grow up to be Steven Moffat, you know)

Thanks for the info. It’s right, I wasn’t thrilled. What’s the point of a Doctor Who episode without the Doctor. But I’ll try and be unbiased when the time comes for the series three one. (14 episodes in series three, too? Half w00t!)

[John Hoare]

Love & Monsters is still one of my favourite episodes of Who ever. And not just for the excellent oral sex joke at the end, although that’s one of many lovely touches.

But also: it remains the most accurate and sympathetic portrayal of fandom I’ve ever seen on television EVER. The fact that it was broadcast on mainstream telly is just the icing on the cake.

[John Hoare]

What’s the point of a Doctor Who episode without the Doctor. But I?ll try and be unbiased when the time comes for the series three one. (14 episodes in series three, too? Half w00t!)

I’d argue that without the Doctor in it much, you get a really interesting perspective on the Doctor’s character, and people’s perceptions of him…

[TheLeen]

Portrayal of fandom?

[John Hoare]

Portrayal of fandom?

I’ll explain it very badly. Instead, I point you towards this:

EDIT: BUT READ AFTER YOU’VE FINISHED SEASON 2!

http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2006/08/happy_times_and-comments.shtml

[Seb Patrick]

Eeep, be careful! That article contains end-of-series-two spoilers!

[John Hoare]

Fuck fuck fuck!

Sorry, sorry, sorry. *Really* should have checked the article for those. I’ll be more careful in future. Sorry! But read it after you’ve finished this series…

[TheLeen]

I’ll keep the link for next week, then… :)

[John Hoare]

Shit, thank *fuck* you didn’t read it. I feel awful now. I nearly ruined things!

[Jonathan Capps]

You twat, Hoare.

[TheLeen]

It’s okay, nothing happend. :)

[Andrew]

I like Love and Monsters a lot, but it does divide people. Still, I’ll take experimental stuff like that over bog-standard run-and-explode stuff like the cybermen two-parter.

Again, there’s also a big Buffy influence – The Zeppo and Storyteller, showing the hero from an outside perspective. (A series two ep of Buffy also sees the heroine turned into a rat to help the actresses schedule.) It’s how Mickey Smith’s side of the fence looked.

It’s a story about being a fan. Which is a bit of a theme in New Who. Rose is a cypher for the audience, the viewer who gets to join the adventure. And ‘ Do you wanna come with me?’ was a cornerstone of the series one ad campaign.

[John Hoare]

Here’s my review of Love & Monsters – notable for being one of the few Who reviews I’ve written that doesn’t make me curl up in embarrassment upon re-reading. (And Seb’s second opinion is great, too.)

It’s grown on me even more since then, though – it’s a five star episode for me now.

[TheLeen]

Nice… both of them reviews…

Hm, yeah. You’re right with everything you wrote there. And I didn’t think the episode stinks. I liked it. But I liked all of the other ones more. Except maybe “Aliens of London”, and possibly “Rose” (but I’m not even sure about that).

> It?s a story about being a fan. Which is a bit of a theme in New Who. Rose is a cypher for the audience, the viewer who gets to join the adventure. And ? Do you wanna come with me?? was a cornerstone of the series one ad campaign.

But hasn’t that been the purpose of the companions all along?

[Andrew]

> But hasn?t that been the purpose of the companions all along?

Not wishing to spoil things, should you ever go back, the short answer is ‘Yes, but…” and the long answer is ‘No, however…’.

For the sake of this thread, there’s a difference between an early companion asking ‘What IS that, Doctor?!’ as part of a show that needed exposition and a point of reference, and a writing team fulfilling a 40 year old dream to step inside the TARDIS.

[TheLeen]

I’m totally confused and entirely a-ha! at the same time! Good job Andrew!

Ah, today is one of those days where I just love everyone around me. :)

[Andrew]

> Ah, today is one of those days where I just love everyone around me. :)

Sound good. Form an orderly queue, people!

[Pete Part Three]

Love & Monsters is one of the episodes that I’ve never got round to re-watching. I liked the idea but it was nowhere near as smart as it thought it was.

>Incidentally, series three?s Doctor-lite episode is THE BEST THING THAT HAS BEEN ON TV EVER. So all hope is not lost ;-)

This is bang on the money. You are in for one hell of a treat, Marleen.

[Tanya Jones]

>For the sake of this thread, there?s a difference between an early companion asking ?What IS that, Doctor?!? as part of a show that needed exposition and a point of reference, and a writing team fulfilling a 40 year old dream to step inside the TARDIS.

And even then, the early companions could be much more. John keeps on at me to write an article…

[TheLeen]

Please do!

So!

Episode 2×11 – Fear Her

I liked a lot:

– Drawings.
– Animated doodle!! I want one!! It’s almost as cute as Tron’s bit!!
– Closet monster coming to life. Like DoodleBob. Yeah.

Random observations:

– The episode was scary alright, but not quite as scary as the title suggested.
– The alien was very Star Trek: TNG. :)
– Trish? Vaguely familiar? I had to look it up, but hey, she was in Love Actually.

Zombies:

– Doodle zombies :)

Torchwood:

– There was no mention of Torchwood in it, was there? … odd… maybe the calm before the storm…

Overall:

– This episode’s only catch is that it is, plot-wise, so close to The Idiot’s Lantern. People scream out of a telly, people scream out of a drawing. Of the two, I prefer the drawing. I thought it was really cute, and maybe something cute is needed just before the series finale. It was heartbreaking when Rose said in the end “never ever…” of course in an ideal world I would not know that Billie left Who after series two. But as I don’t know whether she dies or falls through a time hole or marries Mickey or just decides to spend some more time with Jackie, I’m really anxious and worried now. And the worst thing is – I can’t watch any Who next weekend. So there is a lot of time for being worried and anxious.

[Seb Patrick]

Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

[Dave]

I’d rather watch Fear Her twice than Voyage Of The Damned at all

[Andrew]

Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

[Author]

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