Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Marleen’s NO SPOILERS Doctor Who Thread – Part II

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  • #2352
    John Hoare
    Participant

    This thread continues this discussion. The topic was split because the system kept running out of memory. Wankers.

    #80705
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Cheers :D

    #80706
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    And for those not keeping up, the episode we’d reached at the current state of play was The Girl In The Fireplace. So please don’t post anything relating to new series episodes beyond that until Marleen does.

    #80707
    Andrew
    Participant

    > So please don?t post anything relating to new series episodes beyond that until Marleen does.

    “Dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-dum-da-dum-da-dum…”

    That’s the theme tune from the next episode. I’m such a rebel.

    #80708
    TheLeen
    Participant

    God, I love you guys. :D

    #80715
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    And we love you too. Because, y’know, we’re nice like that.

    #80724
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >By the way, some three months ago I dreamt that I could manipulate the universe through pseudo SQL queries. I left-joined the kitchen to the bedroom for quicker access to the fridge. Awesome.

    I hope you ensured that you in the bedroom = you in the kitchen, otherwise you could have been in a whole heap of trouble.

    #80725
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    If more ladies made SQL jokes then this world would be a far nicer place to live in.

    #80727
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > I hope you ensured that you in the bedroom = you in the kitchen, otherwise you could have been in a whole heap of trouble.

    XD

    Tbh I don’t remember the exact details, but I think the primary key I used was some sort of room index inside the flat… or something. It was quite cool because I “saw” the tables and relations as kind of a second, see-through layer before visible reality. That’s why the building blocks stuff reminded me of it.

    The night before that I’d had a dream that all my work colleagues were handpuppets, and our product line manager was the unintended clown of the piece. (The audience of 5-year-olds thought he was hysterically funny.) I think I work too much.

    #80730
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I dreamt last night that I’d been employed by Angel Investigations. Spike had teamed up with Drucilla again and Angel had me call Spike on his cellphone to shake him down for information. He was remarkably forthcoming with information.

    Of course, the dream started slightly more bizarrely. An old man, who I’m fairly sure was an Eastenders character although I haven’t seen the show since I moved to LA, had a heart attack at a funeral, and the next thing I know I’ve woken up in a coffin on an ocean liner. The top and side comes off and there are people (I forget who) informing me that I’d better take a shower because using a used coffin as a means of transportation has karmic impact. I climb out of the coffin and a moldy skeletal leg falls out behind me with perfect comic timing. Then I had a shower.

    I realise we’ve strayed somewhat from the original topic at hand, which is… erm… hats?

    #80754
    TheLeen
    Participant

    W00t, series three is down to 35 quid. *click*

    #80881
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×05 – Rise of the Cybermen
    Episode 2×06 – The Age of Steel

    Good

    – There was some funny lines in there, especially in Rise of the Cybermen.
    – Cybermen.
    – Continuity. (As in Pete, Ricky, … erhm. That’s it.)
    – Archetypical bad guy. I like evil scientists. Not in real life, of course.
    – I liked how the design of the cybermen seemed to have evolved from the earplug antennae.
    – I liked the president.

    Ungood

    – But there were also a lot of very corny lines. Like the Doctor’s speech before his other speech (the code one – that one was okay).
    – I had a feeling everything would change for Mickey, but him just staying there in place of dead Ricky, hm, I don’t know, is so clich?. I expected him to at least turn evil, or something entirely different.
    – Hm. And: getting rid of Mickey when he just started to be fun! I’m going to miss him!
    – How did the daily download work for people driving cars?

    Miscellaneous

    – Giving the episode the name “Rise of the Cybermen” really took away from the suspension. Glad that there was at least no teaser at the end of the episode though spoiling the second part.
    – Exploding heads.
    – Exploding everything.
    – Welsh accent is so so weird.
    – Rose just loves to hang down from a zeppelin, doesn’t she. Is that sort of a running gag? Will she be doing it in series three, too? I’ll find out!
    – Did the writers have anything specific in mind to come back to when they wrote the Doctor calling him “Ricky” for the first time?
    – Well, I don’t know how the Cybermen evolved in the Doctor’s universe, but if the two incidents were connected by a greater frame, that would be nice. I know in two parallel worlds, such things could just happen to happen, but still.

    On Doctors Nine & Ten

    – Forgot to mention it last week: last week I almost forgot my grief for the Ninth Doctor since the episode was brilliant and also seemed to suit the Tenth Doctor’s style well. In fact, I said to Vincent (half-jokingly), what was it again that was so brilliant about the Ninth Doctor?
    – But now the Cybermen episodes on the other hand would have fit the Ninth Doctor better as they were dark and brooding and about loss and pain.

    Summary

    I liked the first part better than the second (and especially than its ending).
    I’d been looking forward to my first Cybermen episode and, well, I can’t say I’m disappointed because it was kind of epic (being a two-parter and Mickey’s finale), but for such an epic pair of episodes, it was not all that. It should have felt better than average.

    Haha, look at me, five months ago I had no idea what Doctor Who was about, and I’m already complaining like a spoilt child.

    #80883
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Haha, look at me, five months ago I had no idea what Doctor Who was about, and I?m already complaining like a spoilt child.

    ONE OF US.

    #80885
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >- I liked the president.

    Did you recognize him? If not, check out Holoship for a younger model. In a dodgy jumpsuit. In a particularly great gag.

    (I suddenly feel paranoid as it’s while since I saw that Cyberman episode, but I think my memory is correct. I’m sure it’s him.)

    #80886
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Oooooh yeah, of course! Hadn’t realised, although his voice and mouth seemed very familiar. That’s why he landed on the “I liked” list then. Oooooh! *marvels*

    #80890
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Oh and by the way: Torchwood.

    – Torchwood institute… bla bla bla… published a study.

    Hm. The Bad Wolf stuff was scarier, because it seemed a lot more random in the beginning (which, sadly, it actually was).

    #80891
    Dave
    Participant

    >How did the daily download work for people driving cars?

    Oh yeah, I hadn’t thought of that.

    >Welsh accent is so so weird

    What? You’ve just sat through 90 minutes of Nick Briggs pronouncing the G in “DELETE” and you find the Welsh weird?

    #80900
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >And: getting rid of Mickey when he just started to be fun! I?m going to miss him!

    Agreed. He annoyed me no end in the first series (and I DETEST that scene in Rose where he’s transformed into a dummy or whatever), but he grew on me a lot in the second.

    #80909
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > pronouncing the G in ?DELETE?

    What?

    #80933
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×07 – The Idiot’s Lantern

    On the good:

    – Telly talking to you. I mean, YOU. I love it when that happens.
    – Telly doing holographic hex vision.
    – Faceless people. I love it.
    – Rose clearly had fun talking to Eddie Connolly, and so did we.
    – The special effect of the creature looking out of the telly was very nice.

    On the rest:

    – And there was us thinking the lantern’s idiot could be Mickey.
    – Faceless people. I love it. No wait. HOW?
    – The Wire looking out of the telly… HOW?
    – Another villain decides to give away its plan before trying to kill its enemies. They never learn!
    – I thought they gave away the creature’s motivation too early (“So hungry!). Would have been nice to be left wondering for a little longer what sort of conspiracy was going on…
    – And we don’t know too much about The Wire, where it came from, what sort of being it was… I don’t suppose it matters much but that’s still a bit sad.

    On zombies:

    – Last time, metal zombies. This time, telly zombies. Zombies zombies zombies.

    On the Doctor:

    – He’s alright. Sometimes gets on my nerves a bit with the shouting, especially in “heureka” moments. But he’s alright.

    On Torchwood:

    – Apparently Torchwood is all over the media and every little police officer talks about it. Then no wonder the PM has heard of it. So how come that in Rose’s present it is quite suddenly supposed to be ONE BIG SECRET?

    And all in all:

    Nice (though historically probably totally irrelevant) little “fun” episode that made no sense whatsoever but was very entertaining nonetheless, and also very visual. I liked it.

    #80934
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    > Nice (though historically probably totally irrelevant) little ?fun? episode that made no sense whatsoever but was very entertaining nonetheless, and also very visual. I liked it.

    Yes. A lot of other people were getting irritated with the shouting at this point, but I enjoyed the energy and fun between the Doctor and Rose.

    #80945
    ChrisM
    Participant

    As for the faceless people, that was really creepy wasn’t it?

    I’d like to know how they continued to breathe though. Wire magic, no doubt. ;)

    #81074
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×08 – The Impossible Planet
    Episode 2×09 – The Satan Pit

    Hah, this was a bit Event Horizon, mixed with Sphere, with a dash of The Fifth Element, and what was that Star Trek: TNG episode featuring the devil? Oh, and the Alien tunnel scene.

    Stuff that I loved:

    – The setting. I’m not usually a lover of this sort of flick (I mean Event Horizon, Sphere etc) but it was nicely different from other Who episode settings.
    – Although the subject of the devil being an ancient “evil” lifeform that has influenced a whole number of cultures (earth or otherwise) isn’t exactly new, I wasn’t bored one second.
    – Vin liked that the sonic srewdriver wasn’t used once throughout the two episodes (except in the teaser right in the beginning).

    Other stuff to be said:

    – Well, I’m used to telly (or film) heroes getting more than a human’s usual share of good fortune (aka The Luck of Heroes), but the Doctor was really, really tempting fate there. I mean, he’s usually doing that a bit, but this time I felt a line was crossed. But then, he was under the telepathic influence of The Beast, so I suppose he’s got an excuse. He’d better get his priorities straight though for the next few episodes (1. find TARDIS, 2. save universe, 3. save Rose, 4. risk his life for a bit of fun). Why DID he give up the search for the TARDIS so soon, especially when he was going to go down anyway? Last time I checked, he had a remote control, too… and we know that he did have his sonic everythingdriver on him.
    – The writing on the wall could have been either ANCIENT!, or, you know, nonsense ;)
    – So, there was no oxygen in the maintenance tunnels, but simple grills between them and the living area, … lol.

    Zombie stuff:

    – Slave zombies! It was nice to see the Ood (I’d heard the term before not knowing who or what they were). They look really great with their Davy Jones style tentacles. But I hope there is more to them than wanting to serve…

    Doctor X stuff:

    – Yeah yeah, okay, I like him. I don’t like it when him and Rose go all “and then we went there and did that and do you remember them, ha ha ha, wasn’t that just brilliant”, it’s annoying. But there wasn’t much of that in these two particular episodes. And in the end when the Doctor was in the pit, going “yeah no yeah no”, that was very cute.
    – Didn’t think of Doctor IX once.

    Torchwood stuff:

    – Aha, more humans to deal with space stuff, more Torchwood. Nothing fundamentally new there.

    And all in all:

    – I thought it was an excellent pair of episodes. Vin liked them, too. Very entertaining and relatively good cgi (I thought anyway). The plot seemed a little bit very very much constructed, but hey. Entertaining nonetheless and I’m going to rank it between the good episodes I enjoyed and the excellent Moffat ones, all the way up there.

    #81077
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >I?m going to rank it between the good episodes I enjoyed and the excellent Moffat ones, all the way up there.

    That’s pretty much how most of us tend to think of that two-parter, I think. You may have noticed that there’s a pattern to each series, in the sense that there’s a “blockbuster two-parter” early on (wide, accessible story with big monsters), and then a more “adult two-parter” later (as with The Empty Child last year). Most people will generally agree that the adult two-parters present pretty much the best the show has to offer – you’re in for a treat when you get to next year’s, let me tell you.

    #81092
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    And you’re going to come in your pants when you get to the Series 4 adult two-parter…

    #81096
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Yeah, I’m already looking forward (a bit too much) to… everything. I’ve got series three here, but I will eventually get to a point where I cannot watch two new episodes each weekend.

    TOO SOON.

    By the way, David Tennant’s German voice makes him sound younger and even a bit hotter. Oooh.

    #81372
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×10 – Love & Monsters

    Oooookay… let’s get this over with…

    This was the good stuff:

    – The webcam thing seemed fun (at first).
    – Jackie was really sweet.
    – Bunch of nerds off the blogosphere = a good thing.

    This was the bad stuff:

    – Way too much webcam and way too little story.
    – The story was really quite silly.
    – No satisfactory ending.
    – Crap monster.

    And finally:

    – WHERE WAS THE DOCTOR?! How many lines did him and Rose have in that episode, combined? Five? Lame. I suppose there’s some good reason for this. Or so I hope.

    All in all:

    – Crap story, crap monster and crap resolution(s) = crap episode.
    Well, it wasn’t that bad, at least it was a little fun to watch, but within the scope of Doctor Who it’s certainly somewhere at the lower end of the enjoyment scale. I kind of feel like having watched no Who at all, and am awfully glad that I don’t have to wait one week but can have another, hopefully better, one tomorrow. So, it wasn’t actually a Who episode. Mayb The Christmas Invasion and Love & Monsters together count as one whole episode, so there is still 13 in series two of Who. But only just.

    #81374
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Okay, so – the “good reason”.

    Basically, the way the production “year” is structured and scheduled is for a 13 episode run. But since they introduced the Christmas specials, they’re basically doing 14 episodes in a 13 episode time frame.

    Soooo, each year from series two onwards, there’s what we call the “Doctor-lite” episode. It’s an episode shot simultaneously with another one, that requires little time from the lead actors. Love & Monsters is the first example, it’s a shame you didn’t like it (I love it) but it IS a very divisive episode in terms of fan opinion.

    Incidentally, series three’s Doctor-lite episode is THE BEST THING THAT HAS BEEN ON TV EVER. So all hope is not lost ;-)

    Oh, and the monster? Designed by an eight-year-old for a kids’ TV competition ;-)

    #81375
    TheLeen
    Participant

    OH?! Gosh, now I’m sorry I said it was crap :D

    (Some of those eight-year-old fans grow up to be Steven Moffat, you know)

    Thanks for the info. It’s right, I wasn’t thrilled. What’s the point of a Doctor Who episode without the Doctor. But I’ll try and be unbiased when the time comes for the series three one. (14 episodes in series three, too? Half w00t!)

    #81376
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Love & Monsters is still one of my favourite episodes of Who ever. And not just for the excellent oral sex joke at the end, although that’s one of many lovely touches.

    But also: it remains the most accurate and sympathetic portrayal of fandom I’ve ever seen on television EVER. The fact that it was broadcast on mainstream telly is just the icing on the cake.

    #81377
    John Hoare
    Participant

    What’s the point of a Doctor Who episode without the Doctor. But I?ll try and be unbiased when the time comes for the series three one. (14 episodes in series three, too? Half w00t!)

    I’d argue that without the Doctor in it much, you get a really interesting perspective on the Doctor’s character, and people’s perceptions of him…

    #81378
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Portrayal of fandom?

    #81388
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Portrayal of fandom?

    I’ll explain it very badly. Instead, I point you towards this:

    EDIT: BUT READ AFTER YOU’VE FINISHED SEASON 2!

    http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2006/08/happy_times_and-comments.shtml

    #81391
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Eeep, be careful! That article contains end-of-series-two spoilers!

    #81393
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Fuck fuck fuck!

    Sorry, sorry, sorry. *Really* should have checked the article for those. I’ll be more careful in future. Sorry! But read it after you’ve finished this series…

    #81394
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I’ll keep the link for next week, then… :)

    #81395
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Shit, thank *fuck* you didn’t read it. I feel awful now. I nearly ruined things!

    #81397
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    You twat, Hoare.

    #81398
    TheLeen
    Participant

    It’s okay, nothing happend. :)

    #81403
    Andrew
    Participant

    I like Love and Monsters a lot, but it does divide people. Still, I’ll take experimental stuff like that over bog-standard run-and-explode stuff like the cybermen two-parter.

    Again, there’s also a big Buffy influence – The Zeppo and Storyteller, showing the hero from an outside perspective. (A series two ep of Buffy also sees the heroine turned into a rat to help the actresses schedule.) It’s how Mickey Smith’s side of the fence looked.

    It’s a story about being a fan. Which is a bit of a theme in New Who. Rose is a cypher for the audience, the viewer who gets to join the adventure. And ‘ Do you wanna come with me?’ was a cornerstone of the series one ad campaign.

    #81404
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Here’s my review of Love & Monsters – notable for being one of the few Who reviews I’ve written that doesn’t make me curl up in embarrassment upon re-reading. (And Seb’s second opinion is great, too.)

    It’s grown on me even more since then, though – it’s a five star episode for me now.

    #81405
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Nice… both of them reviews…

    Hm, yeah. You’re right with everything you wrote there. And I didn’t think the episode stinks. I liked it. But I liked all of the other ones more. Except maybe “Aliens of London”, and possibly “Rose” (but I’m not even sure about that).

    > It?s a story about being a fan. Which is a bit of a theme in New Who. Rose is a cypher for the audience, the viewer who gets to join the adventure. And ? Do you wanna come with me?? was a cornerstone of the series one ad campaign.

    But hasn’t that been the purpose of the companions all along?

    #81407
    Andrew
    Participant

    > But hasn?t that been the purpose of the companions all along?

    Not wishing to spoil things, should you ever go back, the short answer is ‘Yes, but…” and the long answer is ‘No, however…’.

    For the sake of this thread, there’s a difference between an early companion asking ‘What IS that, Doctor?!’ as part of a show that needed exposition and a point of reference, and a writing team fulfilling a 40 year old dream to step inside the TARDIS.

    #81409
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I’m totally confused and entirely a-ha! at the same time! Good job Andrew!

    Ah, today is one of those days where I just love everyone around me. :)

    #81410
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Ah, today is one of those days where I just love everyone around me. :)

    Sound good. Form an orderly queue, people!

    #81414
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Love & Monsters is one of the episodes that I’ve never got round to re-watching. I liked the idea but it was nowhere near as smart as it thought it was.

    >Incidentally, series three?s Doctor-lite episode is THE BEST THING THAT HAS BEEN ON TV EVER. So all hope is not lost ;-)

    This is bang on the money. You are in for one hell of a treat, Marleen.

    #81417
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >For the sake of this thread, there?s a difference between an early companion asking ?What IS that, Doctor?!? as part of a show that needed exposition and a point of reference, and a writing team fulfilling a 40 year old dream to step inside the TARDIS.

    And even then, the early companions could be much more. John keeps on at me to write an article…

    #81421
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Please do!

    So!

    Episode 2×11 – Fear Her

    I liked a lot:

    – Drawings.
    – Animated doodle!! I want one!! It’s almost as cute as Tron’s bit!!
    – Closet monster coming to life. Like DoodleBob. Yeah.

    Random observations:

    – The episode was scary alright, but not quite as scary as the title suggested.
    – The alien was very Star Trek: TNG. :)
    – Trish? Vaguely familiar? I had to look it up, but hey, she was in Love Actually.

    Zombies:

    – Doodle zombies :)

    Torchwood:

    – There was no mention of Torchwood in it, was there? … odd… maybe the calm before the storm…

    Overall:

    – This episode’s only catch is that it is, plot-wise, so close to The Idiot’s Lantern. People scream out of a telly, people scream out of a drawing. Of the two, I prefer the drawing. I thought it was really cute, and maybe something cute is needed just before the series finale. It was heartbreaking when Rose said in the end “never ever…” of course in an ideal world I would not know that Billie left Who after series two. But as I don’t know whether she dies or falls through a time hole or marries Mickey or just decides to spend some more time with Jackie, I’m really anxious and worried now. And the worst thing is – I can’t watch any Who next weekend. So there is a lot of time for being worried and anxious.

    #81422
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

    #81424
    Dave
    Participant

    I’d rather watch Fear Her twice than Voyage Of The Damned at all

    #81427
    Andrew
    Participant

    Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

    #81428
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

    Please explain

    #81433
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

    Yeah, I didn’t mind Fear Her. Wasn’t a fave of mine but it wasn’t bad. Mind you none of New Who is that bad.

    #81435
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

    It sets Ten up as not being a cat person, which is WRONGE. Good job Gridlock fixed that.

    #81439
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    > Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

    Please explain

    It’s bland, it features some of the worst examples of the Doctor’s “AWWWH!” smart-arsedness (which reminds me – when you’ve finished series two, remind me to link you to Charlie Brooker’s wishlist for series three!), and the sequence with the Olympics torch and that hideous, hideous commentary is the most horrifically schmaltzy and rubbish moment in the show’s history. The story is completely unmemorable, and even from a directorial point of view it just feels like no-one could really be arsed.

    It’s touch and go, I guess, whether Fear Her or New Earth is worse (or 42 from series three, for that matter), but they’re all pretty rank.

    #81443
    Ridley
    Participant

    But it’s courage and it’s love!

    #81444
    John Hoare
    Participant

    The weird thing is, I *never* noticed any of that when I first watched it. It didn’t even cross my mind. I was too busy enjoying the image of the Doctor lighting the torch – which I thought was brilliant – to notice.

    If I watched it again, it’d probably irritate me now, but it never bothered me at the time.

    #81447
    Andrew
    Participant

    Like the torch, the cupboard, the scribble and the whispered alien voice.

    And I adore: the TARDIS materialising inconveniently, Rose halting the Doctor from dipping into the marmalade, and the lengthy multi-character conversation in the street. One of my favourite dialogue sequences of New Who.

    #81450
    ChrisM
    Participant

    As I said, I didn’t mind ‘Fear Her’ but I though the torch lighting bit sucked major monkey rump. And that ain’t tasty I can tell you.

    Well I assume it isn’t. It’s not like I’ve spent an unhealthy amount of time in the simian section of London zoo… (quick recovery there.)

    Ok, bit of an exaggeration maybe, but it made me wince.

    #81453
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > the TARDIS materialising inconveniently

    Yeah, that was great :D

    #81825
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×12 – Army of Ghosts
    Episode 2×13 – Doomsday

    This review might turn out short cause I’m really too sad to make an effort here.

    I liked:

    – David Tennant is, as you say, cute as a button. Oh and he looked so, so sad in the end. :'(
    – Hey, it’s the last Daleks in existence! Again!
    – Daleks vs. Cybermen was quite good. The dialogues were hilarious. I never knew either the Cyber men or the Daleks had a sense of humour. Which clearly they have. And: you almost felt sorry for the Cybermen, didn’t ya.
    – Oh noes, one Dalek beamed away (into the parallel dimension I suppose)…
    – Oh look! It’s Pete! And Jackie! Awwwwwwww.

    And I didn’t:

    – The beginning of the first episode. Don’t know why.
    – Mickey, now that he’s come to terms with everything, has really become quite boring.

    Stuff:

    – And there was me thinking that the genesis thingy contained the Master (another something that I SHOULD NOT BE KNOWING ABOUT at this point)
    – And the girl working at Torchwood’s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

    Torchwood:

    – No butt-fucking surprise there. It’s really what we’d seen coming by miles. But that’s okay.

    Rose:

    – I’d grown rather fond of Rose. I’m not a fan as such. I wouldn’t, say, join a Rose Typer facebook group. But the end was simply heartbreaking. I’ll be very picky with the next companion (poor girl, eh). What’s really really sad is that together with Rose, everything Rose-related vanished from Who: Jackie, Mickey, Pete (who managed to appear in quite too many episodes for a dead man, but I loved him as a character). So there’s a whole bunch gone at once. Someone said on Confidential that Rose’s family served as point to return to, for Rose as well as the viewer, and I realise now how well that worked. I feel unhinged. As Rose must feel now without the Doctor. Well, at least they’re all together, which works as a “happy” ending. I bet they’ll find ways to write Rose back in for single episodes, I mean if they can do it they will do it (probably have done it already). But I will miss Jackie most, I think! Anyway – parallel earth, parallel Torchwood – I wondered after Rise of the Cybermen already, where’s the parallel TARDIS with its parallel Doctor?

    Overall

    – Daleks AND Cybermen, a rift in reality, the Void, parallel planets, … The series finale was epic, I’ll give it that.
    – Thought the second episode was much, much better than the first. All in all good, but, well, not THAT good. I think I’d rate it directly below Bad Wolf.

    P.S.: Wtf?

    – Sooooo… Catherine Tate. What is going on? See, I try, I really try to read as little as possible about Who on the ‘net (although I have see this, but anyway I know it’s Marth’a turn now and Donna is the series four companion, so that, yes, that was quite a surprise to see her there.

    Anyway! Series two. For me, it never quite managed to reach the peaks of series one. But neither the bottom.

    #81826
    Andrew
    Participant

    SHE’S MADE A BLOODY CHART!!! :-D

    > And there was me thinking that the genesis thingy contained the Master (another something that I SHOULD NOT BE KNOWING ABOUT at this point)

    It wasn’t until you started series two that I realised how badly the packaging ruins the finale. The Daleks were kept as a total surprise on broadcast – it was going to be a cyber-ending, so far as we knew – and, obviously, you knew they were coming from the moment you looked at the box. A shame.

    > And the girl working at Torchwood?s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

    Same actress. There’s a simple explanation – which you’ll eventually get to.

    Weirdly I watched these same two episodes LAST NIGHT. Freaky…

    #81827
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > It wasn?t until you started series two that I realised how badly the packaging ruins the finale. The Daleks were kept as a total surprise on broadcast – it was going to be a cyber-ending, so far as we knew – and, obviously, you knew they were coming from the moment you looked at the box. A shame.

    Nah, I made nothing of it. I made it a habit, too, not to look at the box. It’s a nice packaging, especially on the inside, when you know the episodes already. It’s laden with spoilers though. So seeing the Daleks was still a surprise, but more of a “oh look, the last Dalek ever!” kind of ironic one *g*

    >> And the girl working at Torchwood?s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

    > Same actress. There?s a simple explanation – which you?ll eventually get to.

    So I wasn’t entirely wrong. That is nice. Intriguing, too.

    I’ll be on shoreleave next weekend, so, again, no Who for me for another while.

    #81828
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    But I will miss Jackie most, I think! Anyway – parallel earth, parallel Torchwood – I wondered after Rise of the Cybermen already, where?s the parallel TARDIS with its parallel Doctor?

    I’m not sure how much of explaining this is spoilers, so I think it’s alright to do so. The idea is that there’s only one set of Time Lords – they can traverse parallel universes, but they’ll never interact with themselves (uh, apart from when they cross their own timelines) because there’s only ever one version. So in the parallel universe, there’s no Doctor. The reason for Torchwood’s existence (again, I can’t remember where this was stated) is apparently that, because he wasn’t there to save her, Queen Victoria was killed by the werewolf. Torchwood was set up to battle alien threats from that point onwards.

    #81868
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Speaking of which, should I watch Torchwood next or series three of Who?

    #81869
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Speaking of which, should I watch Torchwood next or series three of Who?

    It doesn’t matter too much. If you have Torchwood, you might as well watch it first. Minor spoiler bellow (I’m leaving out plot stuff and details though so it shouldn’t spoil your enjoyment..)
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    +
    [spoiler]
    Certain episodes of series 3 happen after Torchwood from a certain character’s point of view. Certain blanks in this character’s history are filled in this series of Doctor Who. However, if you watch Dr. Who first, it won’t spoil the main plot of either show.

    Hope that was vague enough.;)

    #81870
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    The mitigating factor here is that Torchwood series one is complete and utter shit. Only the first episode is worth watching.

    #81871
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Indeed.

    Watch the first episode and, maybe, the last couple of episodes (which – slightly – leads into the season three finale of Doctor Who) but I really wouldn’t bother with the rest of it.

    The first episode hinted at potential that has yet to be realised. The second season is slightly better, but not by much.

    #81874
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Taste is subjective though. One persons shite might be someone else’s honey (metaphorically speaking of course.) Many people like the show. I thought it could have been far better, but I didn’t hate it overall. (So certainly not honey, but edible albeit a few gristly bits were hard to swallow.)

    Marleen-

    My advise is to watch the first few episodes. If 3-4 episodes in you don’t like it then you can skip to the last couple episodes as they said.

    #81879
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I don’t like honey either.

    #81880
    Ridley
    Participant

    In retrospect I’d avoid series one and just watch from series two but Pete’s version makes more sense.

    #81883
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Since the option are a) buy the series one box or b) leave it, I’ll be going with b).

    I can catch up on Torchwood once I run out of Who episodes (which will be too soon anyway).

    #81884
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I would at least read up on it a bit, familiarise yourself with who’s who and what happens. It will help you *slightly* when you get to the series three finale (and even moreso for the series four finale!), although it’s by no means essential in either case.

    #81886
    Andrew
    Participant

    While so far it’s been an overall miss for Torchwood, there HAVE been good episodes (Ian’s dead wrong – They Keep Killing Suzy is pretty good for a kick-off).

    But it’s not a full-price purchase, frankly. Worth seeing the best eps if they ever appear on iTunes or whatever, though – if that ever happens, get a list from here!

    #81898
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I was debating whether to add They Keep Killing Suzie to my list of episodes worth watching. That and Captain Jack Harkness are the only contenders from the first series, though. The second is much better.

    #81899
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Convinced that the best thing about They Keep Killing Suzie is the title.

    #81902
    Dave
    Participant

    Torchwood is so inconsistent. I liked Random Shoes, Out Of Time is great, Combat is a complete waste of everyone’s time

    #81905
    Andrew
    Participant

    I thought Combat was one of the best in terms of tone and character writing. I wish Noel Clarke had written more. Whereas Random Shoes was pants.

    Small Worlds was okay, but the script makes a huge error in having the team do literally nothing to affect the outcome.

    #81907
    Dave
    Participant

    Sorry Marleen we’ve done it again.

    Coming soon: The Torchwood Spoilers Thread

    #81908
    TheLeen
    Participant

    O_O

    #81910
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Coming soon: The Torchwood Spoilers Thread

    http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2008/07/the-torchwood-spoilers-thread

    #82287
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 3×00 – The Runaway Bride

    On the episode:
    – Opening: Great opening.
    – Monster: Fantastic monster! She was beautiful! For something as clich? and been-there as a spiderwoman, she did quite stun me. Didn’t look too cgi. Love the eyes.
    – Science: Bler. As much as I appreciate ANCIENT magical energy forms, did it have to be golden glitter again? LOOK, it’s clearly Huon energy! Never mind that it looks exactly like nanogenes, or TARDIS dust, or, probably, most other things in Who ;)
    – Ending: Good ending.

    On Catherine Tate:
    – I LIKED HER IN THIS EPISODE. A LOT. I THOUGHT SHE WAS PERFECT. There, I said it. Donna was twice as entertaining as she was annoying and the role must’ve been written especially for Catherine Tate to work so well. I’m looking forward to seeing more of her in series four. My only apology is that I have not had to sit through the so-called Catherine Tate Show that you lot so despise. Apart from one or two Lauren Cooper clips and the special one with David Tennant.

    On the Doctor:
    – Oh, he can look sooo hurt and lonely. It’s sad that he had to lose Rose before I could see that so clearly in him. Anyway, yes, I like him now.

    On zombies:
    – No zombies, only robots, alas, remote-controlled ones, so maybe zombots.

    On christmas specials:
    – Preferred this one to The Christmas Invasion, and by miles. I just thought it was more entertaining and not QUITE as silly. Well, hm, the spiderwench and Ms Tate really did it for me I guess.

    #82290
    ChrisM
    Participant

    – Monster: Fantastic monster! She was beautiful! For something as clich? and been-there as a spiderwoman, she did quite stun me. Didn?t look too cgi. Love the eyes.

    She was a great monster wasn’t she? Actually I think she is a fusion of actress in prosthetics and CGI. Obviously the blinking extra eyes were cgi but I think they did make her up in part, including that head rig. I’m sure the distance stuff and the spider thorax were all CG though. A good example of how a fusion of CGI and live action can work well.

    On Catherine Tate:
    – I LIKED HER IN THIS EPISODE. A LOT. I THOUGHT SHE WAS PERFECT. There, I said it. Donna was twice as entertaining as she was annoying and the role must?ve been written especially for Catherine Tate to work so well.

    I agree. I found her a bit irritating, but she was a great character.

    I?m looking forward to seeing more of her in series four. My only apology is that I have not had to sit through the so-called Catherine Tate Show that you lot so despise.

    Not me, I quite liked her show as well. It got old quite quickly though as a lot of her humor was based on repetitive catch-phrases. (Loren’s “Am I bovvered!” being one that is referenced a lot.) There were some great characters in her show. The Gran being a good example. And the ginger gags made me chuckle in their silliness.

    #82294
    Dave
    Participant

    >Not me, I quite liked her show as well. It got old quite quickly though as a lot of her humor was based on repetitive catch-phrases. (Loren?s ?Am I bovvered!? being one that is referenced a lot.) There were some great characters in her show. The Gran being a good example. And the ginger gags made me chuckle in their silliness.

    Get out

    #82295
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    > I?m sure the distance stuff and the spider thorax were all CG though.

    Actually the entire spider body was a practical prop, moved around on hyrdraulic pistons. It’s fooking massive. Saw it at the Doctor Who exibition.

    #82317
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Really? That’s impressive. So they just used the CG for the candles on the cake so to speak. A good use of the medium. (Not that I’m against intensive CGI if it’s good…)

    #82349
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The queen of the Rachnos is all prosthetic and no CGI. Just so you know.

    #82351
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I just meant CGI was used for the final touches. I.e. the candles on the cake being the blinking spider eyes. Not the eyes themselves, the blinking effect. That was certainly CG, utilised in a subtle but highly effective, and freaky way.

    #82354
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Oh yes, that.

    #82475
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Yeah, I quite liked both those episodes (although I’m not sure the magic stuff in the Elizabethan one quite fitted with the genre… even if it is essentially another science. Great villains though.)

    As for the one with the Judoon, I thought the Judoon were great new aliens too. One thing that bugged me about that episode was that stuff about irradiating half the earth utilizing a bit of equipment in a room in the hospital. (It’s been a while so I can’t remember the specifics, radiography, X-ray machine, whatever.) I just thought they were a little TOO silly. I’d just about buy that the overload would harm the folks in the hospital, and while that’d be smaller stakes, it would still be more than enough for the heroics.

    As for Martha, yeah I quite like her too. How did you consider Freema’s acting though?

    Oh and good point concerning the cousin thing. It’s ploy often used in drama though. You can always get round it by imagining they actually look different, just like imagining bad effects look good. ;)

    #82477
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > One thing that bugged me about that episode was that stuff about irradiating half the earth utilizing a bit of equipment in a room in the hospital. (It?s been a while so I can?t remember the specifics, radiography, X-ray machine, whatever.) I just thought they were a little TOO silly.

    *cough* London Eye *cough*

    > As for Martha, yeah I quite like her too. How did you consider Freema?s acting though?

    Hm, didn’t strike me as very good nor very bad. Have to see more of it before I can judge. If anything, it’s a bit bland (so far), but I just attributed it to the character.

    #82472
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Now, let’s see what we have here…

    Episode 3×01 – Smith and Jones

    On the episode:
    – Liked the rain effect.
    – Liked the baddie (kind of cheesy but good).
    – LOVED the Rhinos (kind of VERY cheesy but extremely good! Only Doctor Who or The Fifth Element could pull this off!).
    – And the thing we massively loved most: the Judoons marking humans with edding crosses.
    – I tink there were a couple of great lines in the script, but I can’t remember them now!
    – Anyways, good episode, for something not being the series’ highlight or finale or of other extraordinary relevance, and with the cheese factor it has.

    On Martha:
    – Well, she is kind of sweet.
    – She’s also… a bit of a swot.
    – Hmpf. (Translation: It’s not your fault but… get your fingers off my Doctor)
    – You said there was an explanation for Martha looking exactly like Adeola in “Army of Ghosts”. A random “I had a cousin…” is NOT a valid explanation. It’s lame. I reckon they really really wanted Freema Agyeman for the role, but I wish they’d come up for a better explanation than that. It’s Doctor Who, they could’ve made up ANYTHING. “Cousin” is really lazy. Also, you usually don’t look exactly like your cousin and not very much like your own sister.

    On the Doctor:
    – Loved him in this episode.

    On zombies:
    – Leather biker zombies. Harr.

    All in all:
    – I enjoyed it immensely. Vin, too. We enjoyed it so much that we watched another episode there and then. Or maybe that was because I’m rather ill and so I could make three wishes (I had wished for some (real, proper) cheese and a hot chocolate before). I think I just made that rule up. Worked really well, too.

    Episode 3×02 – The Shakespeare Code

    This episode:
    – You know by now that I do rather like “costume” type episodes, i.e. ones playing in the past. Lovely views of Elizabethan London.
    – Ancient magic, someone banned at the beginning of the universe, so they’re just a legend, of course only until they try to set the rest of their kind free, who’re encaged somewhere on Earth, wait a minute, did we not just see that story two episodes ago? Ah heck, anyway, it was fun.
    – Really loved the olde English being made funny. “I told thee so!” Tee hee hee.
    – Some good Shakespeare jokes, but then it became too many Shakespeare jokes.
    – Speaking of Shakespeare. Excuse me, I didn’t quite get it… what did you just say he was? A genius? Ohhhh, he is a genius, blah blah. He’s even more of a swot than Martha. Nauseating! There’s nothing wrong with a little praise but him bypassing the psychic paper was OTT.
    – Other than that, nicely written, I enjoyed many of the lines, so I can only speak for myself, but I would say: great script!
    – But: what’s with the Harry Potter references? SICK! (I love Harry Potter, by the way, but mixing two different fictional universes together… that makes me kind of queasy…)
    – Other literary references: the title, the thing with the true names, … hmm, have I missed any more? Probably.
    – Heh, the Doctor is not getting on with ANY of the female rulers of the UK, is he? First Harriet, then Vicky, now Liz. If I were him, I’d move to France where lady leaders adore him. Looking forward to any further episodes revealing why Elizabeth hates him so. Might this be this series’ mystery arc? Maybe not, although I’d like that.
    – Author, author! I looked him up and imdb said he also wrote something to do with a unicorn and a wasp for series four. Oooooh, I’m looking forward to that one.

    Zombies:
    – Voodooly controlled ones.

    All in all:
    – Vin found it to be average or even below, I myself rather liked the episode. What a fun ride. Also, I think I don’t mind Martha. She’s still a bit bland, but then, so was Rose (for me) in the beginning.

    #82478
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I just edit-shifted my own posting to the bottom of the queue again, is this supposed to still be happening? Meh…

    #82479
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    It’s still on the FIX LIST. I’m sure John will get to after he’s finished r… OH, WHOOPS, BETTER NOT MENTION THAT.

    #82483
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I?m sure John will get to after he?s finished r?

    SHHHHHHHHHH!

    #82484
    ChrisM
    Participant

    As long as I don’t get accused of spoiling. I was responding to episodes reviewed, honest! ;)

    #82502
    pfm
    Participant

    > I?m sure John will get to after he?s finished r…

    rogering a fanny?

    #82507
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 3×03 – Smith and Jones

    The episode:
    – Oooh, dystopia. Brazil-esque emo drug dealers, Dark City-like microcosm of infinite motorways, I like it.
    – Lol, Irish cat. Waiiiit a minute, I know that voice! And seriously, I can’t believe I recognised Ardal O’Hanlon under that cat face. Still. What a lovely accent. <3
    – The rest of the secondary characters were great as well.
    – Crabs feeding off smog. Fair enough. Although after we’ve just seen spiders and rhinos, I wouldn’t have minded if they’d used aliens that don’t look like they belong in Earth’s fauna. (They used to be a real thread some billions of years ago… yawn…)
    – I was hoping to hear something more… profound from good ol’ Face of Boe. The Doctor was hoping to hear nothing at all from the Face of Boe. Why?
    – Wish I didn’t know about the Master, although I must admit I didn’t really think of him, not until Vin said “Will the other remaining time lord be good or evil then, whad do you think?”
    – I THINK if I would care to start looking, I’d find some MAJOR plot holes in there. I am trying very very hard though to not look. Successfully so, so far.
    – All in all, good episode! Series three is coming along rather well!

    Doctor X:
    – Stop being a jerk.

    Martha:
    – I feel more and more sorry for Martha each episode. She’s begging to get her heart broken. Poor girl.

    #82508
    TheLeen
    Participant

    And the forum ate the rest of my posting!

    #82509
    TheLeen
    Participant

    *sigh*

    – The other secondary characters (the old ladies etc) were great, too.
    – I was hoping to hear something more profound from good old Face of Boe. The Doctor was hoping to hear nothing at all from the Face of Boe. Why? Also: I wish I didn’t know about the Master. But I really didn’t make the connection until Vin said to me: “so, is this other remaining time lord good or evil, what do you think?”
    – Smog-eating crabs, fair enough. But after the spiders and rhinos, it would have been kinda nice to see creatures that don’t look like Earth’s fauna.
    – All in all: good episode. Series three is really nice so far.

    Doctor X:
    – Oh, stop being a jerk.

    Martha:
    – I feel more and more sorry for her with each new episode. She’s begging to get her heart broken. Poor girl.

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