Marleen’s NO SPOILERS Doctor Who Thread – Part II

[John Hoare]

This thread continues this discussion. The topic was split because the system kept running out of memory. Wankers.

Topic

[TheLeen]

> Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

Please explain

[ChrisM]

>Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

Yeah, I didn’t mind Fear Her. Wasn’t a fave of mine but it wasn’t bad. Mind you none of New Who is that bad.

[Jonathan Capps]

> Fear Her has many good qualities. APPRECIATE THEM.

It sets Ten up as not being a cat person, which is WRONGE. Good job Gridlock fixed that.

[Seb Patrick]

> Gah. Fear Her. Hate hate hate. Worst episode of New Who. By miles.

Please explain

It’s bland, it features some of the worst examples of the Doctor’s “AWWWH!” smart-arsedness (which reminds me – when you’ve finished series two, remind me to link you to Charlie Brooker’s wishlist for series three!), and the sequence with the Olympics torch and that hideous, hideous commentary is the most horrifically schmaltzy and rubbish moment in the show’s history. The story is completely unmemorable, and even from a directorial point of view it just feels like no-one could really be arsed.

It’s touch and go, I guess, whether Fear Her or New Earth is worse (or 42 from series three, for that matter), but they’re all pretty rank.

[Ridley]

But it’s courage and it’s love!

[John Hoare]

The weird thing is, I *never* noticed any of that when I first watched it. It didn’t even cross my mind. I was too busy enjoying the image of the Doctor lighting the torch – which I thought was brilliant – to notice.

If I watched it again, it’d probably irritate me now, but it never bothered me at the time.

[Andrew]

Like the torch, the cupboard, the scribble and the whispered alien voice.

And I adore: the TARDIS materialising inconveniently, Rose halting the Doctor from dipping into the marmalade, and the lengthy multi-character conversation in the street. One of my favourite dialogue sequences of New Who.

[ChrisM]

As I said, I didn’t mind ‘Fear Her’ but I though the torch lighting bit sucked major monkey rump. And that ain’t tasty I can tell you.

Well I assume it isn’t. It’s not like I’ve spent an unhealthy amount of time in the simian section of London zoo… (quick recovery there.)

Ok, bit of an exaggeration maybe, but it made me wince.

[TheLeen]

> the TARDIS materialising inconveniently

Yeah, that was great :D

[TheLeen]

Episode 2×12 – Army of Ghosts
Episode 2×13 – Doomsday

This review might turn out short cause I’m really too sad to make an effort here.

I liked:

– David Tennant is, as you say, cute as a button. Oh and he looked so, so sad in the end. :'(
– Hey, it’s the last Daleks in existence! Again!
– Daleks vs. Cybermen was quite good. The dialogues were hilarious. I never knew either the Cyber men or the Daleks had a sense of humour. Which clearly they have. And: you almost felt sorry for the Cybermen, didn’t ya.
– Oh noes, one Dalek beamed away (into the parallel dimension I suppose)…
– Oh look! It’s Pete! And Jackie! Awwwwwwww.

And I didn’t:

– The beginning of the first episode. Don’t know why.
– Mickey, now that he’s come to terms with everything, has really become quite boring.

Stuff:

– And there was me thinking that the genesis thingy contained the Master (another something that I SHOULD NOT BE KNOWING ABOUT at this point)
– And the girl working at Torchwood’s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

Torchwood:

– No butt-fucking surprise there. It’s really what we’d seen coming by miles. But that’s okay.

Rose:

– I’d grown rather fond of Rose. I’m not a fan as such. I wouldn’t, say, join a Rose Typer facebook group. But the end was simply heartbreaking. I’ll be very picky with the next companion (poor girl, eh). What’s really really sad is that together with Rose, everything Rose-related vanished from Who: Jackie, Mickey, Pete (who managed to appear in quite too many episodes for a dead man, but I loved him as a character). So there’s a whole bunch gone at once. Someone said on Confidential that Rose’s family served as point to return to, for Rose as well as the viewer, and I realise now how well that worked. I feel unhinged. As Rose must feel now without the Doctor. Well, at least they’re all together, which works as a “happy” ending. I bet they’ll find ways to write Rose back in for single episodes, I mean if they can do it they will do it (probably have done it already). But I will miss Jackie most, I think! Anyway – parallel earth, parallel Torchwood – I wondered after Rise of the Cybermen already, where’s the parallel TARDIS with its parallel Doctor?

Overall

– Daleks AND Cybermen, a rift in reality, the Void, parallel planets, … The series finale was epic, I’ll give it that.
– Thought the second episode was much, much better than the first. All in all good, but, well, not THAT good. I think I’d rate it directly below Bad Wolf.

P.S.: Wtf?

– Sooooo… Catherine Tate. What is going on? See, I try, I really try to read as little as possible about Who on the ‘net (although I have see this, but anyway I know it’s Marth’a turn now and Donna is the series four companion, so that, yes, that was quite a surprise to see her there.

Anyway! Series two. For me, it never quite managed to reach the peaks of series one. But neither the bottom.

[Andrew]

SHE’S MADE A BLOODY CHART!!! :-D

> And there was me thinking that the genesis thingy contained the Master (another something that I SHOULD NOT BE KNOWING ABOUT at this point)

It wasn’t until you started series two that I realised how badly the packaging ruins the finale. The Daleks were kept as a total surprise on broadcast – it was going to be a cyber-ending, so far as we knew – and, obviously, you knew they were coming from the moment you looked at the box. A shame.

> And the girl working at Torchwood?s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

Same actress. There’s a simple explanation – which you’ll eventually get to.

Weirdly I watched these same two episodes LAST NIGHT. Freaky…

[TheLeen]

> It wasn?t until you started series two that I realised how badly the packaging ruins the finale. The Daleks were kept as a total surprise on broadcast – it was going to be a cyber-ending, so far as we knew – and, obviously, you knew they were coming from the moment you looked at the box. A shame.

Nah, I made nothing of it. I made it a habit, too, not to look at the box. It’s a nice packaging, especially on the inside, when you know the episodes already. It’s laden with spoilers though. So seeing the Daleks was still a surprise, but more of a “oh look, the last Dalek ever!” kind of ironic one *g*

>> And the girl working at Torchwood?s for the Cybermen, I thought it was Martha, but obviously not.

> Same actress. There?s a simple explanation – which you?ll eventually get to.

So I wasn’t entirely wrong. That is nice. Intriguing, too.

I’ll be on shoreleave next weekend, so, again, no Who for me for another while.

[Seb Patrick]

But I will miss Jackie most, I think! Anyway – parallel earth, parallel Torchwood – I wondered after Rise of the Cybermen already, where?s the parallel TARDIS with its parallel Doctor?

I’m not sure how much of explaining this is spoilers, so I think it’s alright to do so. The idea is that there’s only one set of Time Lords – they can traverse parallel universes, but they’ll never interact with themselves (uh, apart from when they cross their own timelines) because there’s only ever one version. So in the parallel universe, there’s no Doctor. The reason for Torchwood’s existence (again, I can’t remember where this was stated) is apparently that, because he wasn’t there to save her, Queen Victoria was killed by the werewolf. Torchwood was set up to battle alien threats from that point onwards.

[TheLeen]

Speaking of which, should I watch Torchwood next or series three of Who?

[ChrisM]

>Speaking of which, should I watch Torchwood next or series three of Who?

It doesn’t matter too much. If you have Torchwood, you might as well watch it first. Minor spoiler bellow (I’m leaving out plot stuff and details though so it shouldn’t spoil your enjoyment..)
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[spoiler]
Certain episodes of series 3 happen after Torchwood from a certain character’s point of view. Certain blanks in this character’s history are filled in this series of Doctor Who. However, if you watch Dr. Who first, it won’t spoil the main plot of either show.

Hope that was vague enough.;)

[Ian Symes]

The mitigating factor here is that Torchwood series one is complete and utter shit. Only the first episode is worth watching.

[Pete Part Three]

Indeed.

Watch the first episode and, maybe, the last couple of episodes (which – slightly – leads into the season three finale of Doctor Who) but I really wouldn’t bother with the rest of it.

The first episode hinted at potential that has yet to be realised. The second season is slightly better, but not by much.

[ChrisM]

Taste is subjective though. One persons shite might be someone else’s honey (metaphorically speaking of course.) Many people like the show. I thought it could have been far better, but I didn’t hate it overall. (So certainly not honey, but edible albeit a few gristly bits were hard to swallow.)

Marleen-

My advise is to watch the first few episodes. If 3-4 episodes in you don’t like it then you can skip to the last couple episodes as they said.

[Pete Part Three]

I don’t like honey either.

[Ridley]

In retrospect I’d avoid series one and just watch from series two but Pete’s version makes more sense.

[TheLeen]

Since the option are a) buy the series one box or b) leave it, I’ll be going with b).

I can catch up on Torchwood once I run out of Who episodes (which will be too soon anyway).

[Seb Patrick]

I would at least read up on it a bit, familiarise yourself with who’s who and what happens. It will help you *slightly* when you get to the series three finale (and even moreso for the series four finale!), although it’s by no means essential in either case.

[Andrew]

While so far it’s been an overall miss for Torchwood, there HAVE been good episodes (Ian’s dead wrong – They Keep Killing Suzy is pretty good for a kick-off).

But it’s not a full-price purchase, frankly. Worth seeing the best eps if they ever appear on iTunes or whatever, though – if that ever happens, get a list from here!

[Ian Symes]

I was debating whether to add They Keep Killing Suzie to my list of episodes worth watching. That and Captain Jack Harkness are the only contenders from the first series, though. The second is much better.

[Pete Part Three]

Convinced that the best thing about They Keep Killing Suzie is the title.

[Dave]

Torchwood is so inconsistent. I liked Random Shoes, Out Of Time is great, Combat is a complete waste of everyone’s time

[Andrew]

I thought Combat was one of the best in terms of tone and character writing. I wish Noel Clarke had written more. Whereas Random Shoes was pants.

Small Worlds was okay, but the script makes a huge error in having the team do literally nothing to affect the outcome.

[Dave]

Sorry Marleen we’ve done it again.

Coming soon: The Torchwood Spoilers Thread

[TheLeen]

O_O

[John Hoare]

Coming soon: The Torchwood Spoilers Thread

http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2008/07/the-torchwood-spoilers-thread

[TheLeen]

Episode 3×00 – The Runaway Bride

On the episode:
– Opening: Great opening.
– Monster: Fantastic monster! She was beautiful! For something as clich? and been-there as a spiderwoman, she did quite stun me. Didn’t look too cgi. Love the eyes.
– Science: Bler. As much as I appreciate ANCIENT magical energy forms, did it have to be golden glitter again? LOOK, it’s clearly Huon energy! Never mind that it looks exactly like nanogenes, or TARDIS dust, or, probably, most other things in Who ;)
– Ending: Good ending.

On Catherine Tate:
– I LIKED HER IN THIS EPISODE. A LOT. I THOUGHT SHE WAS PERFECT. There, I said it. Donna was twice as entertaining as she was annoying and the role must’ve been written especially for Catherine Tate to work so well. I’m looking forward to seeing more of her in series four. My only apology is that I have not had to sit through the so-called Catherine Tate Show that you lot so despise. Apart from one or two Lauren Cooper clips and the special one with David Tennant.

On the Doctor:
– Oh, he can look sooo hurt and lonely. It’s sad that he had to lose Rose before I could see that so clearly in him. Anyway, yes, I like him now.

On zombies:
– No zombies, only robots, alas, remote-controlled ones, so maybe zombots.

On christmas specials:
– Preferred this one to The Christmas Invasion, and by miles. I just thought it was more entertaining and not QUITE as silly. Well, hm, the spiderwench and Ms Tate really did it for me I guess.

[ChrisM]

– Monster: Fantastic monster! She was beautiful! For something as clich? and been-there as a spiderwoman, she did quite stun me. Didn?t look too cgi. Love the eyes.

She was a great monster wasn’t she? Actually I think she is a fusion of actress in prosthetics and CGI. Obviously the blinking extra eyes were cgi but I think they did make her up in part, including that head rig. I’m sure the distance stuff and the spider thorax were all CG though. A good example of how a fusion of CGI and live action can work well.

On Catherine Tate:
– I LIKED HER IN THIS EPISODE. A LOT. I THOUGHT SHE WAS PERFECT. There, I said it. Donna was twice as entertaining as she was annoying and the role must?ve been written especially for Catherine Tate to work so well.

I agree. I found her a bit irritating, but she was a great character.

I?m looking forward to seeing more of her in series four. My only apology is that I have not had to sit through the so-called Catherine Tate Show that you lot so despise.

Not me, I quite liked her show as well. It got old quite quickly though as a lot of her humor was based on repetitive catch-phrases. (Loren’s “Am I bovvered!” being one that is referenced a lot.) There were some great characters in her show. The Gran being a good example. And the ginger gags made me chuckle in their silliness.

[Dave]

>Not me, I quite liked her show as well. It got old quite quickly though as a lot of her humor was based on repetitive catch-phrases. (Loren?s ?Am I bovvered!? being one that is referenced a lot.) There were some great characters in her show. The Gran being a good example. And the ginger gags made me chuckle in their silliness.

Get out

[Zombie Jim Undead]

> I?m sure the distance stuff and the spider thorax were all CG though.

Actually the entire spider body was a practical prop, moved around on hyrdraulic pistons. It’s fooking massive. Saw it at the Doctor Who exibition.

[ChrisM]

Really? That’s impressive. So they just used the CG for the candles on the cake so to speak. A good use of the medium. (Not that I’m against intensive CGI if it’s good…)

[Ben Paddon]

The queen of the Rachnos is all prosthetic and no CGI. Just so you know.

[ChrisM]

I just meant CGI was used for the final touches. I.e. the candles on the cake being the blinking spider eyes. Not the eyes themselves, the blinking effect. That was certainly CG, utilised in a subtle but highly effective, and freaky way.

[Ben Paddon]

Oh yes, that.

[ChrisM]

Yeah, I quite liked both those episodes (although I’m not sure the magic stuff in the Elizabethan one quite fitted with the genre… even if it is essentially another science. Great villains though.)

As for the one with the Judoon, I thought the Judoon were great new aliens too. One thing that bugged me about that episode was that stuff about irradiating half the earth utilizing a bit of equipment in a room in the hospital. (It’s been a while so I can’t remember the specifics, radiography, X-ray machine, whatever.) I just thought they were a little TOO silly. I’d just about buy that the overload would harm the folks in the hospital, and while that’d be smaller stakes, it would still be more than enough for the heroics.

As for Martha, yeah I quite like her too. How did you consider Freema’s acting though?

Oh and good point concerning the cousin thing. It’s ploy often used in drama though. You can always get round it by imagining they actually look different, just like imagining bad effects look good. ;)

[TheLeen]

> One thing that bugged me about that episode was that stuff about irradiating half the earth utilizing a bit of equipment in a room in the hospital. (It?s been a while so I can?t remember the specifics, radiography, X-ray machine, whatever.) I just thought they were a little TOO silly.

*cough* London Eye *cough*

> As for Martha, yeah I quite like her too. How did you consider Freema?s acting though?

Hm, didn’t strike me as very good nor very bad. Have to see more of it before I can judge. If anything, it’s a bit bland (so far), but I just attributed it to the character.

[TheLeen]

Now, let’s see what we have here…

Episode 3×01 – Smith and Jones

On the episode:
– Liked the rain effect.
– Liked the baddie (kind of cheesy but good).
– LOVED the Rhinos (kind of VERY cheesy but extremely good! Only Doctor Who or The Fifth Element could pull this off!).
– And the thing we massively loved most: the Judoons marking humans with edding crosses.
– I tink there were a couple of great lines in the script, but I can’t remember them now!
– Anyways, good episode, for something not being the series’ highlight or finale or of other extraordinary relevance, and with the cheese factor it has.

On Martha:
– Well, she is kind of sweet.
– She’s also… a bit of a swot.
– Hmpf. (Translation: It’s not your fault but… get your fingers off my Doctor)
– You said there was an explanation for Martha looking exactly like Adeola in “Army of Ghosts”. A random “I had a cousin…” is NOT a valid explanation. It’s lame. I reckon they really really wanted Freema Agyeman for the role, but I wish they’d come up for a better explanation than that. It’s Doctor Who, they could’ve made up ANYTHING. “Cousin” is really lazy. Also, you usually don’t look exactly like your cousin and not very much like your own sister.

On the Doctor:
– Loved him in this episode.

On zombies:
– Leather biker zombies. Harr.

All in all:
– I enjoyed it immensely. Vin, too. We enjoyed it so much that we watched another episode there and then. Or maybe that was because I’m rather ill and so I could make three wishes (I had wished for some (real, proper) cheese and a hot chocolate before). I think I just made that rule up. Worked really well, too.

Episode 3×02 – The Shakespeare Code

This episode:
– You know by now that I do rather like “costume” type episodes, i.e. ones playing in the past. Lovely views of Elizabethan London.
– Ancient magic, someone banned at the beginning of the universe, so they’re just a legend, of course only until they try to set the rest of their kind free, who’re encaged somewhere on Earth, wait a minute, did we not just see that story two episodes ago? Ah heck, anyway, it was fun.
– Really loved the olde English being made funny. “I told thee so!” Tee hee hee.
– Some good Shakespeare jokes, but then it became too many Shakespeare jokes.
– Speaking of Shakespeare. Excuse me, I didn’t quite get it… what did you just say he was? A genius? Ohhhh, he is a genius, blah blah. He’s even more of a swot than Martha. Nauseating! There’s nothing wrong with a little praise but him bypassing the psychic paper was OTT.
– Other than that, nicely written, I enjoyed many of the lines, so I can only speak for myself, but I would say: great script!
– But: what’s with the Harry Potter references? SICK! (I love Harry Potter, by the way, but mixing two different fictional universes together… that makes me kind of queasy…)
– Other literary references: the title, the thing with the true names, … hmm, have I missed any more? Probably.
– Heh, the Doctor is not getting on with ANY of the female rulers of the UK, is he? First Harriet, then Vicky, now Liz. If I were him, I’d move to France where lady leaders adore him. Looking forward to any further episodes revealing why Elizabeth hates him so. Might this be this series’ mystery arc? Maybe not, although I’d like that.
– Author, author! I looked him up and imdb said he also wrote something to do with a unicorn and a wasp for series four. Oooooh, I’m looking forward to that one.

Zombies:
– Voodooly controlled ones.

All in all:
– Vin found it to be average or even below, I myself rather liked the episode. What a fun ride. Also, I think I don’t mind Martha. She’s still a bit bland, but then, so was Rose (for me) in the beginning.

[TheLeen]

I just edit-shifted my own posting to the bottom of the queue again, is this supposed to still be happening? Meh…

[Jonathan Capps]

It’s still on the FIX LIST. I’m sure John will get to after he’s finished r… OH, WHOOPS, BETTER NOT MENTION THAT.

[Danny Stephenson]

I?m sure John will get to after he?s finished r?

SHHHHHHHHHH!

[ChrisM]

As long as I don’t get accused of spoiling. I was responding to episodes reviewed, honest! ;)

[pfm]

> I?m sure John will get to after he?s finished r…

rogering a fanny?

[TheLeen]

Episode 3×03 – Smith and Jones

The episode:
– Oooh, dystopia. Brazil-esque emo drug dealers, Dark City-like microcosm of infinite motorways, I like it.
– Lol, Irish cat. Waiiiit a minute, I know that voice! And seriously, I can’t believe I recognised Ardal O’Hanlon under that cat face. Still. What a lovely accent. <3
– The rest of the secondary characters were great as well.
– Crabs feeding off smog. Fair enough. Although after we’ve just seen spiders and rhinos, I wouldn’t have minded if they’d used aliens that don’t look like they belong in Earth’s fauna. (They used to be a real thread some billions of years ago… yawn…)
– I was hoping to hear something more… profound from good ol’ Face of Boe. The Doctor was hoping to hear nothing at all from the Face of Boe. Why?
– Wish I didn’t know about the Master, although I must admit I didn’t really think of him, not until Vin said “Will the other remaining time lord be good or evil then, whad do you think?”
– I THINK if I would care to start looking, I’d find some MAJOR plot holes in there. I am trying very very hard though to not look. Successfully so, so far.
– All in all, good episode! Series three is coming along rather well!

Doctor X:
– Stop being a jerk.

Martha:
– I feel more and more sorry for Martha each episode. She’s begging to get her heart broken. Poor girl.

[TheLeen]

And the forum ate the rest of my posting!

[TheLeen]

*sigh*

– The other secondary characters (the old ladies etc) were great, too.
– I was hoping to hear something more profound from good old Face of Boe. The Doctor was hoping to hear nothing at all from the Face of Boe. Why? Also: I wish I didn’t know about the Master. But I really didn’t make the connection until Vin said to me: “so, is this other remaining time lord good or evil, what do you think?”
– Smog-eating crabs, fair enough. But after the spiders and rhinos, it would have been kinda nice to see creatures that don’t look like Earth’s fauna.
– All in all: good episode. Series three is really nice so far.

Doctor X:
– Oh, stop being a jerk.

Martha:
– I feel more and more sorry for her with each new episode. She’s begging to get her heart broken. Poor girl.

[Jonathan Capps]

Gridlock remains one of my all time favourite episodes, mainly for The Doctor’s scenes at the start and end of the episodes regarding Gallifrey.

[Author]

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