Marleen’s NO SPOILERS ‘Recommend Me Old Who’ Thread.

[Jonathan Capps]

At the suggestion of Arlene… I predict this will get quite big.

> And yehh. If I’m going to see one iconic Who story from each Doctor’s era, I’d like to see them in chronological order.

What the hell, I’ll put my vote in for every Doctor…

1. William Hartnell – The Daleks. Second ever story and pretty much the reason Doctor Who is massive.

2. Patrick Troughton – Tomb of the Cybermen. Passive racism aside, this is an absolutely cracking and genuinely scary story. Fun fact: Troughton actually considered blacking up for the role of The Doctor. The 60s, there.

3. Jon Pertwee – Spearhead from Space (not seen a whole lot of 3rd Doctor stories, but this is his first and also the first story to feature The Autons!)

4. Tom Baker – Genesis of the Daleks. Or City of Death. Or Talons of Weng Chiang. or… well, he was in the role for 7 years so it might be a good idea to pick more than one of his stories

5. Peter Davison – Caves of Androzani. An utterly brilliant last story for Doc 5, and featuring one of my favourite endings.

6. Colin Baker – Revelation of the Daleks. As loath as I am to pick another Dalek story (and such a comparatively awful one, at that) this is honestly the best from Colin’s era. Great Doctor, shit stories. Shame.

7. Sylvester McCoy – Remembrance of the Daleks. One of my favourite stories ever. I love Sylvester as The Doctor and Ace makes me feel funny in my tummy.

Topic

[Seb Patrick]

D&TB is one of those examples, though, of a McCoy story where you can see what they were *trying* to do, it just didn’t really come off. It’s no Happiness Patrol or Remembrance, but at least it’s no Silver Nemesis either.

[Tarka Dal]

Ah it turns out D&TB isn’t the one I’m thinking of then. What’s Baker.T’s 2nd Davros tale?

[Dave]

>What?s Baker.T?s 2nd Davros tale?

Davros And The Battymen

[Ben Paddon]

Density of the Daleks.

They’re pretty dense.

[Somebody]

SoundableObject:
I think the next Pertwee?s we will see will be the liked of ?The Daemons? and ?Invasion of the Dinosaurs? though, they can benefit from dot chrome reconstruction which was used for ?Planet of the Daleks?, shame they didn?t realise before ?Doctor Who and the Silurians? was released, that would have a better picture using dot chrome restoration then the use of NTSC tapes.

Not necessarily:
1) Not all B&W film recordings HAVE the chroma dots to start with. They were meant to be stripped out during recording, and on some recordings (like Mind of Evil pt 1), they actually were.
2) Even where they exist, they aren’t necessarily clear enough to recover the colour
3) Even when you CAN recover colour, that doesn’t mean that the resulting colour will be stable and broadcast-quality.

The Planet of the Daleks recolourisation is a blend of from-scratch computer colouring (done before they got the chroma-dot process working) and the chroma-dot recovery. If you look at the official article on it – http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/DalekWarDVD.htm – you’ll notice some of the problems with the colour on the chroma-dot-only pictures (the middle ones – notice the heavy rainbow-patterning on Jo’s hair and jumper in the first set of pictures), and that they say “the CR colour was unstable and noisy”.

[JamesTC]

DWO confirmed ‘The Keys of Marinus’ for 2009 release, 2|E are being really open about released this year! Not that I’m complaining, I love knowing what is to come.

[TheLeen]

Keep ’em coming!

[si]

I’m looking forward to The War Games later this year.

[JamesTC]

Me too, a triple disc set! Though I am most looking forward to the colourised ‘Planet of the Daleks’, I love all the restoration features and that has one about the colourisation!

[si]

Well, with my birthday money/Karl’s HMV gift card, finally got round to buying the Beneath The Surface boxset. Nice.

[Jonathan Capps]

Ooh, I’ve just started on that boxset (also bought with vouchers) as I’ve not seen any of those stories. Currently *loving* Doctor Who and the Silurians but I worry about Warriors of the Deep, as even its DVD leaflet is negative about it.

[JamesTC]

‘The Sea Devils’ is wonderful, the best Pertwee story by far. ‘Warriors of the Deep’ is not as bad as is said but it is not a classic, the costume for Silurians and Sea Devils are great and well I won’t spoil it, Peter is good in it.

[Jonathan Capps]

Peter’s good in everything, I can always rely on that.

[JamesTC]

Just got ‘The E-Space’ trilogy. A whole three stories with Lalla, yum!

[Jonathan Capps]

I’ve just finished off ‘… And The Silurians’. Brilliant story. Got The Sea Devils next! Master-tastic!

[JamesTC]

Enjoy ‘The Sea Devils’, it is easily my favourite Master story. The Sea Devils are a fantastic villain too, far better than the Silurians if you ask me. Now to ‘State of Decay’!

[JamesTC]

I’m currently watching continuitys for ‘Warriors Gate’ and one of them is si’s current picture, it is advertising tele-text subtitles for the story with a Dalek next to it, why on earth is a Dalek there?

[Jonathan Capps]

THIS JUST IN: My favourite Doctor Who logo is the one introduced in 1970 for Pertwee before the 1974 redesign. I’m pleased the Movie and the DVDs use the same one.

That is all.

[Dave]

THIS JUST IN: I like McCoy’s Doctor Who logo.

[Jonathan Capps]

> THIS JUST IN: I like McCoy?s Doctor Who logo.

You sick bastard.

[JamesTC]

Either the Baker-Davison-Baker logo or the Pertwee and McGann logo for me. I didn’t mind the McCoy logo, well when compared to the Eccleston-Tennant one.

[Dave]

>the Eccleston-Tennant one

I remember not knowing what make of it when I first saw it, but I like how it takes the emphasis off the word WHO

[JamesTC]

Zagreus sits inside your head
Zagreus lives among the dead
Zagreus sees you in your bed
And eats you when you’re sleeping

[Seb Patrick]

>THIS JUST IN: I like McCoy?s Doctor Who logo.

ME TOO.

But like a lot of things to do with McCoy, that’s probably partly to do with it being “the one” when I was a kid. In primary school I probably spent countless hours drawing that logo…

[JamesTC]

I listened to the BFA ‘Colditz’ with McCoy the other day, one good thing about it is David Tennant playing a Nazi, every time he talks in the future I will hear that accent.
If only they could get David on audio, maybe in a few years…

[Danny Stephenson]

If only they could get David on audio, maybe in a few years?

erm..

http://www.audiobookscorner.com/list.aspx?narrator=David%20Tennant

[Ian Symes]

If only they could get David on audio, maybe in a few years?

Big Finish have only got the license to cover stuff from 1963-1996.

[JamesTC]

>Big Finish have only got the license to cover stuff from 1963-1996.
I know! In a few years they may be able to get the license for new series stuff though, I hope.

>erm.. http://www.audiobookscorner.com/list.aspx?narrator=David%20Tennant
BFA! Full cast audio not reading out of a book, though I think David’s immpression of Billie is realy funny.

[Dave]

>>Big Finish have only got the license to cover stuff from 1963-1996.
>I know! In a few years they may be able to get the license for new series stuff though, I hope

It would be great but the BBC isn’t going to give anything away, bracing for another RTD-related tirade but Big Finish only retained their licence because RTD insisted on it.

It was up for renewal around 2004/2005 and the Beeb were ready to pull the plug when they knew they had shiny new telly on the way, they didn’t want Doctor Who particularly, they wanted RTD. So he could ask for all sorts, he had Big Finish’s autonomy stipulated in various contracts and the licences separated, the very fact that McGann is their cutoff is the reason they are still going.

But I’m sure you still hate RTD.

[Ian Symes]

No, Dave, you’re wrong. RTD is a big fat gay who has destroyed my childhood and ruined everything to do with Doctor Who.

[Pete Part Three]

I’m sick of THE GAY AGENDA?.

[JamesTC]

I don’t like RTD as a person (though this raises what I think of him by a mile) but he is a good script writer (unless he goes for epic epicness finales or Christmas specials).
Episodes like ‘New Earth’, ‘Smith and Jones’ and ‘Partners in Crime’ are wonderful series openers which RTD writes fantastic, I have already said this on IMDB that I wouldn’t mind if RTD wrote the opener every year, he always does them well, series finales on the other hand, well I won’t get into that.

[Andrew]

> I don?t like RTD as a person

You don’t KNOW RTD as a person.

[Ridley]

6. Colin Baker – Revelation of the Daleks. As loath as I am to pick another Dalek story (and such a comparatively awful one, at that) this is honestly the best from Colin?s era.

Really? I was going to ask if there were any better ones because I’m having trouble wanting to sit through RotD’s second half.

[JamesTC]

>> I don?t like RTD as a person
>You don?t KNOW RTD as a person.

From what I have seen in Confidential he comes across as a funny guy, witty, but I just think he is mean with certain comments, he compared fans criticize his stories on the internet to mosquitoes (may have been another insect), I just found that comment completely out of line and it doesn’t make me think highly of him, a few other comments about people on online message boards have been said, the people who mock him as a person are wrong but that is just a vocal minority. I give credit were credut is due and I slaughter episodes which deserve it atleast in my opinion, what is wrong with that I don’t know but RTD seems to think me saying why I don’t like a story makes me a mosquitoe.

[JamesTC]

>>6. Colin Baker – Revelation of the Daleks. As loath as I am to pick another Dalek story (and such a comparatively awful one, at that) this is honestly the best from Colin?s era.

>Really? I was going to ask if there were any better ones because I?m having trouble wanting to sit through RotD?s second half.

Well why not try a Big Finish Audio, why not ‘Medicinal Purposes’? That story is fantastic with the added bonus of David Tennant in it playing a mentally challanged guy called Jaime. “Jaime and the Doctor, Jaime and the Doctor!”.

It is certainly the best performance of both Colin Baker and David Tennant, their scenes together are a delight too because we have the hindsight to know that Tennant is the Doctor!

[Ridley]

I don’t like audio dramas. ;)

[JamesTC]

>I don?t like audio dramas. ;)

Before Big Finish Audio I had never heard audio dramas, I’m glad I took the chance and got ‘Spare Parts’, ‘Jubilee’, ‘Something Inside’ and ‘The One Doctor’, one of the best decisions ever!

[Andrew]

> but I just think he is mean with certain comments

Internet fans: they can dish it out, but they sure can’t take it.

All you mean is “I don’t like that he doesn’t think me and my friends are right when we criticise him”.

But how is a professional meant to function when 99% of what’s written on the internet by fans IS crap? Smile and nod and say they’re all providing valuable input? You can argue that it’s impolitic to dismiss publicly. Or you can argue that without that ability to reject a writer becomes utterly stymied – and expressing it at least makes him candid and recognisably human rather than a corporate suit showrunner.

You don’t have a problem with the guy as a person, because you don’t know how he treats people, what kind of company he is, or how kind he is to animals. You dislike one thing, one judgement call and his mode of expressing it, based on a few for-public interviews. It’s ridiculous to summarise about his entire character.

As for mosquitos – anyone who posts a whinge about the show’s ‘gay agenda’ deserves to be swatted.

[JamesTC]

>Internet fans: they can dish it out, but they sure can?t take it.

I can take it, I’m not here smashing my key board going “I hate RTD” because I don’t.

>All you mean is ?I don?t like that he doesn?t think me and my friends are right when we criticise him?.

Well I give more compliments than criticises, certainly during Series 4s run I hardly had anything bad to say about him as a writer.

>But how is a professional meant to function when 99% of what?s written on the internet by fans IS crap? Smile and nod and say they?re all providing valuable input? You can argue that it?s impolitic to dismiss publicly. Or you can argue that without that ability to reject a writer becomes utterly stymied – and expressing it at least makes him candid and recognisably human rather than a corporate suit showrunner.

I think that he should not dismiss everybody on internet boards, the ones who deserve it should be dismissed, the ones who talk between themselves as fans and say what is right and wrong with episodes, I don’t see a problem with because I am one of them.

>You don?t have a problem with the guy as a person, because you don?t know how he treats people, what kind of company he is, or how kind he is to animals.

How kind he is to animals? But you are right about that, I admit I was wrong there.

>You dislike one thing, one judgement call and his mode of expressing it, based on a few for-public interviews. It?s ridiculous to summarise about his entire character.

Same as previous, it is very possible he is having a bad day but I just think when you are in the public eye those sort of comments should not be made, comments like that stick with me, one of the reasons I dis-like Eric Saward, he is a good writer but certain comments made, hmm.

>As for mosquitos – anyone who posts a whinge about the show?s ?gay agenda? deserves to be swatted.
I do think he forces it in sometimes (such as Ricky being gay in ‘Age of Steel’ though this was cut for time, it is on teh Series 2 Boxset) but I don’t think it is a “gay agenda”, just parts of his character showing through.

[JamesTC]

>Internet fans: they can dish it out, but they sure can?t take it.

I can take it, I’m not here smashing my key board going “I hate RTD” because I don’t.

>All you mean is ?I don?t like that he doesn?t think me and my friends are right when we criticise him?.

Well I give more compliments than criticises, certainly during Series 4s run I hardly had anything bad to say about him as a writer.

>But how is a professional meant to function when 99% of what?s written on the internet by fans IS crap? Smile and nod and say they?re all providing valuable input? You can argue that it?s impolitic to dismiss publicly. Or you can argue that without that ability to reject a writer becomes utterly stymied – and expressing it at least makes him candid and recognisably human rather than a corporate suit showrunner.

I think that he should not dismiss everybody on internet boards, the ones who deserve it should be dismissed, the ones who talk between themselves as fans and say what is right and wrong with episodes, I don’t see a problem with because I am one of them.

>You don?t have a problem with the guy as a person, because you don?t know how he treats people, what kind of company he is, or how kind he is to animals.

How kind he is to animals? But you are right about that, I admit I was wrong there.

>You dislike one thing, one judgement call and his mode of expressing it, based on a few for-public interviews. It?s ridiculous to summarise about his entire character.

Same as previous, it is very possible he is having a bad day but I just think when you are in the public eye those sort of comments should not be made, comments like that stick with me, one of the reasons I dis-like Eric Saward, he is a good writer but certain comments made, hmm.

>As for mosquitos – anyone who posts a whinge about the show?s ?gay agenda? deserves to be swatted.
I do think he forces it in sometimes (such as Ricky being gay in ‘Age of Steel’ though this was cut for time, it is on teh Series 2 Boxset) but I don’t think it is a “gay agenda”, just parts of his character showing through.

[JamesTC]

Triple post? I wonder if it a record, sorry, anyway I found the article, the comment is completely out of line –
“Other sci-fi writers make a point of praising their hardcore fans, but Davies can be very rude about them (look away now, Whovians). “It’s like having a swarm of fucking mosquitoes buzzing around you. It doesn’t stop you doing your job, but, Christ, they buzz!””
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/russell-t-davies-return-of-the-tea-time-lord-805255.html

[Ian Symes]

That’s nowhere near as bad as some of the personal abuse he’s had to put up with. Being called a mosquito isn’t as bad as being called a fat talentless poof. Especially when only two of those things are accurate.

[JamesTC]

Why can’t he take a leaf out of JNTs book (awaits on of those smart arse comments, if yopu have one about JNT, fuck off, I don’t care). Listening to the audio he made on his time on Who when he talks of the comments some people were saying he says things along the lines of “I just carries on”. JNT got and gets more stick than RTD does, neither should get stick but to just say all hardcore fans are buzzing around him like insects is wrong, as I have said it is a vocal minority, it is always a vocal minority who spoil everything but it is obvious it is a vocal minority, not all hardcore Doctor Who fans hate the new series, infact it is only really a small amount that don’t, I enjoy it, not as much as I enjoy the classic series, I still enjoy it.

[Dave]

>I do think he forces it in sometimes (such as Ricky being gay in ?Age of Steel? though this was cut for time, it is on teh Series 2 Boxset) but I don?t think it is a ?gay agenda?

So the first example that springs to mind is one that was omitted from the show. Not a good start.

I actually don’t think this was cut for time, I’ve no proof either way but it does throw up all sorts of issues for a nature versus nurture versus gay gene debate.

But please let’s not turn Marleen’s NO SPOILERS ‘Recommend Me Old Who’ Thread into SoundableObject’s NO SPOILERS ‘RTD Ate My Childhood’ Thread.

[JamesTC]

>So the first example that springs to mind is one that was omitted from the show. Not a good start.

Ok then, what about Torchwood.

[Dave]

>Ok then, what about Torchwood.

So the second example that springs to mind is a show that was broadcast in a post-watershed slot and featured examples of heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality in fairly equal amounts. Not a good middle.

[Andrew]

> ?It?s like having a swarm of fucking mosquitoes buzzing around you. It doesn?t stop you doing your job, but, Christ, they buzz!??

I love this quote. I genuinely love it. There’s the talent right there. The constant, distracting hum of online fandom for a huge, mainstream show. Tell me that’s not accurate! That the volume of chatter about a hit show by its hardcore doesn’t, in the end, resemble the drone of insects. Not in itself detrimental or harmful, but forever insistent on being heard. Given volume BY its volume, not by its intrinsic value. Not especially effectual, and ultimately made up of so many elements that you could never readily pluck the few useful sounds from the buzz without intense, concentrated, microscopic work.

That’s not an insult, and anyone who takes it as such needs to take a long hard look to see if they actually understand it. Man, Who fans…sometimes they’re not even worthy of the quality of RTD’s critique!

[JamesTC]

>So the second example that springs to mind is a show that was broadcast in a post-watershed slot and featured examples of heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality in fairly equal amounts. Not a good middle.

What about when characters spring from one sexuality onto another through the series, Ianto and Toshiko, in them cases I find it forced, though I think Ianto and Jack together is very good and funny.
Don’t get me wrong I think it is a great series, well series 1 was ok, series 2 was fantastic.

I’m just sick of these type of arguments now anyway, I hate arguing like this, it is not a debate, it is an argument which I hate, I will save talking about Who for IMDB and DWO. It just seems like every opinion I express somebody has to pick it apart, I enjoy the show but it has problems, end off discussion.

[Ian Symes]

It just seems like every opinion I express somebody has to pick it apart

Yeah, what kind of debate is that?

I enjoy the show but it has problems, end off discussion.

Much better idea – you express your opinion, nobody is allowed to disagree. Hooray!

[Author]

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