Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Professor Flibble]

I got into the show in 2007 and it became my new obsession, so you can imagine how pleased I was when it very quickly went from a long-dead to active property within two years. As much as I loved it to begin with, I sincerely doubt the show would’ve been as big a part of my life as it has been if I hadn’t been getting new episodes every couple of years from about ages 13-24 while I followed and participated in the hype cycle each time.

Yeah, I’ll always be grateful for the Dave era because otherwise my only formative memories of Red Dwarf would’ve been the DVDs. 2016 was a pretty shit year all around, but Series XI was probably my favourite thing about it.

[Professor Flibble]

Oh, replied before you edited! Curious, what was Back to Earth like for you? What was your reaction to the Coronation Street stuff? 

[Rushy]

Curious, what was Back to Earth like for you? What was your reaction to the Coronation Street stuff? 

Not aimed at me, but I’ll answer because I’m not British and had seen neither Coronation Street nor Blade Runner when I watched Back to Earth. 

The former wasn’t an issue. It made sense that it was some acting gig of Craig Charles. But I did find myself confused when the premise went from “they’re in the real world” to some bizarre sci-fi setting. I justified it internally by assuming that the writer wanted to parody his own ego (I completely believed that the Creator was played by Doug Naylor, and was severely disappointed when I found out he wasn’t) by depicting himself as the lord of a castle regardless of situational context. 

[Moonlight]

I uncritically loved Back to Earth because I had only just turned 13, VII and VIII were two of my favorite series and I would’ve liked anything they put out. Granted I am still a defender of VII and BtE, but not VIII. Coronation Street I only had any context for from reading people talking about everything on G&T because there is no reason in the world I ever would’ve been aware of it at the time otherwise.

2016 was a pretty shit year all around, but Series XI was probably my favourite thing about it.

Same.

[Professor Flibble]

The former wasn’t an issue. It made sense that it was some acting gig of Craig Charles. But I did find myself confused when the premise went from “they’re in the real world” to some bizarre sci-fi setting. I justified it internally by assuming that the writer wanted to parody his own ego (I completely believed that the Creator was played by Doug Naylor, and was severely disappointed when I found out he wasn’t) by depicting himself as the lord of a castle regardless of situational context. 

Yeah, it was all that, and the Blade Runner stuff I didn’t get for the longest time. I only watched the film about two years ago and I still don’t understand the point Doug was trying to make. 

I remember lots of comparisons to Alien in the set design, but I’m not sure Blade Runner was ever mentioned in any of the documentaries.

[Professor Flibble]

I uncritically loved Back to Earth because I had only just turned 13, VII and VIII were two of my favorite series and I would’ve liked anything they put out. Granted I am still a defender of VII and BtE, but not VIII.

When I was very young, I wanna say around when I was 9 or 10? I think I liked VIII because it had Rimmer in it and it had the video look and audience and all that. Later on, I realised everything that was wrong about it. VII I still lump in with VIII a bit but it’s by far the less egregious one and it’s a lot more Dwarfy. 

 Coronation Street I only had any context for from reading people talking about everything on G&T because there is no reason in the world I ever would’ve been aware of it at the time otherwise.

Yeah, I’m British and I’ve still never watched an episode. Other than glimpsing it on family members’ TVs, Back to Earth is the closest I’ve got to choosing to watch it. Doesn’t appeal to me at all.

Same.

I remember seeing the initial news about it, the return of the sans serif logo, the Starbug model pictures, it was so exciting. 

[Warbodog]

I was reading G&T, so would have known about the budget limitations of Back to Earth, because I treated it as gently as a school play when it started. But by the end I was less forgiving, it seemed like a waste of the opportunity and just like doing Red Dwarf for the sake of it, without even being able to be very Red Dwarf. All my goodwill’s faded now.

I was well hyped for series X and calmer for the later ones.

[Professor Flibble]

I was reading G&T, so would have known about the budget limitations of Back to Earth, because I treated it as gently as a school play when it started. But by the end I was less forgiving, it seemed like a waste of the opportunity and just like doing Red Dwarf for the sake of it, without even being able to be very Red Dwarf. All my goodwill’s faded now.

Yeah, I don’t get why the first entry you’d make in a franchise for a decade, why you’d do something so subversive.

I quite like some of the outdoorsy ones. Meltdown, Gunmen etc. So, I think they absolutely could’ve done something very in-spirit. Maybe Doug wanted to do something very daring, but then he should taken into account how VII and VIII did.

I was well hyped for series X and calmer for the later ones.

See, I think Series XI and XII bore even a more superficial resemblance to the III-VI era, and I was a bit more active in looking up news about the show, so by that point I think I was more hyped for XI and XII.

[Moonlight]

I kept reading people who said at the time that they didn’t think you could’ve followed the plot of Back to Earth without seeing Blade Runner, which is obviously bullshit. I never had a problem. What’s confusing is why it’s parodying Blade Runner in the first place. I might be immensely disappointed by BtE now if it was the only thing we got, but having gotten three series and a movie* since that I’ve broadly enjoyed a lot more it’s easy to appreciate it being really fucking weird and different. I just don’t put it on much.

I hunger for another Red Dwarf thing that takes this wild of a stylistic swing. Just, better. I adore Series XI in particular, but Dave Dwarf is definitely mostly the “safe” version of a Red Dwarf revival by sticking roughly to the model of III-V.

[Professor Flibble]

I kept reading people who said at the time that they didn’t think you could’ve followed the plot of Back to Earth without seeing Blade Runner, which is obviously bullshit. I never had a problem. What’s confusing is why it’s parodying Blade Runner in the first place.

Oh yeah, I always understood the plot, just the very specific references to Blade Runner would’ve gone over my head. I’d always assumed that bit of them running down the street and smashing through the window was just trying to look epic (and I have always liked that bit tbf. Though knowing it’s just a Blade Runner parody diminishes it for me somewhat). 

But yeah, there’s nothing about even early Dwarf that puts me in mind of Blade Runner. 

[Professor Flibble]

I hunger for another Red Dwarf thing that takes this wild of a stylistic swing.

I hunger for just more Red Dwarf in general tbh :( 

I adore Series XI in particular, but Dave Dwarf is definitely mostly the “safe” version of a Red Dwarf revival by sticking roughly to the model of III-V.

I will say, I’m glad Doug eventually did safe Dwarf, and I do think he needed to, because there was about 20 years between 1992 and 2012 where the only Red Dwarf that came out was trying to revamp the format in different ways.

[Moonlight]

I’m glad it is the way it is, it’s just that if we got Series XV next year I’d want it to be taking some chances. Add Mac to the main cast. Do a Kochanski episode. Shoot an entire episode single cam. Do something off-kilter and unexpected.

[Professor Flibble]

Does bringing Hattie back count? I really want Hattie back.
Tbf, I’m at a point now where I think if we get another episode, it might be the last one. I don’t want to think like that, but in that case, I’d be on board with them bringing Mac and Chloë back.
Actually, even crazier, bring back both Chloë and Clare. 

[Rushy]

Yeah, I don’t get why the first entry you’d make in a franchise for a decade, why you’d do something so subversive

I’d understand it more if Lister’s storyline wasn’t in it. 

Everything else is made with the understanding that it’s a non-canon little reunion where they bumble around in costume for a bit for old times sake, making twee in-jokes. Like a glorified DVD extra. 

The whole thing with Lister mourning Kochanski, reclaiming his sense of self-worth and coming full circle by going after her again is from a completely different world. 

[Moonlight]

Tbf, I’m at a point now where I think if we get another episode, it might be the last one.

I’m well past the point where I even think there’s another series / special / TV whatever written by Doug with the main cast coming anymore. Which sucks because in early 2020 I was about as sure as I ever was that there’d be more after TPL.

[Professor Flibble]

I’m well past the point where I even think there’s another series / special / TV whatever written by Doug with the main cast coming anymore. Which sucks because in early 2020 I was about as sure as I ever was that there’d be more after TPL.

Yeah, the feature-length special tying up a loose thread format seemed to be the way to go to make things a lot easier, so it’s ironic really. And didn’t Doug say at the time he had at least two more planned? 

I’m not always, but I do try to be a glass half-full kinda guy, so I don’t think it’s impossible we’ll ever get another special. I mean, Doug is persistent. And apparently the new BBC head of comedy is a fan of the show? Idk, I just really, really want to believe it can still happen. 

Are the Series X-XIII sets still in storage?

[Moonlight]

I’m pretty sure those were going to start being discarded a little while ago so it’s probably already done.

[Moonlight]

Lister WAS an art student.

[Moonlight]

[Warbodog]

Lister WAS an art student.

[Moonlight]

Yeah, but later references to Lister going to art college only make sense if he didn’t immediately drop out.

[Warbodog]

You can’t ignore clearly stated continuity just because it’s in an early series, you maniac.

[Moonlight]

I can’t, but Doug can.

[Frank Smeghammer]

This site is by a fairly wide margin the online community I’ve been an active part of for the longest.

(*only jesting)

[Rushy]

I always saw Lister’s “art education” as his version of BSC SSC. As much as Lister extols the virtues of slobbiness, I do believe he’s insecure about his lack of achievements as well.

From Fathers and Suns: “You’re a big disappointment to me, David. No ambition, sitting about. Wasting your life away. I mean, you could have been so much more, and you know it. You’ve got to get yourself an education.”

[Moonlight]

I just hit 3,603 with this post.

[Warbodog]

I’ve got more than twice as many as prolific posters and admins who’ve been here much longer. But for balance, my other social media activity has been pretty much 0.

[Ben Saunders]

Lister could have dropped out after 97 minutes and gone to fresher’s week. There’s absolutely no reason he couldn’t.

[Flap Jack]

Nice, I’m on 3,851 replies (and 983 comments). 💪

[Dave]

[Ian Symes]

[Ben Saunders]

Truly an horrendous screenshot. BtE does not look this bad. Chris Barrie does not look this bad

[Rushy]

Chris looking more like VIII Chris than X Chris always throws me off a bit

[Rushy]

Lister makes and eats biryani?

[Turk Thrust]

I was reading G&T, so would have known about the budget limitations of Back to Earth, because I treated it as gently as a school play when it started. But by the end I was less forgiving, it seemed like a waste of the opportunity and just like doing Red Dwarf for the sake of it, without even being able to be very Red Dwarf. All my goodwill’s faded now.
Yeah, I don’t get why the first entry you’d make in a franchise for a decade, why you’d do something so subversive.
I quite like some of the outdoorsy ones. Meltdown, Gunmen etc. So, I think they absolutely could’ve done something very in-spirit. Maybe Doug wanted to do something very daring, but then he should taken into account how VII and VIII did.

It’s interesting looking back, but there was a time when the official viewpoint was that Series VIII was both a commercial and critical success and a step up from VII. I wonder how many of the zany characters from VIII were in the various versions of the movie script?

My feeling about Back to Earth is that Doug wanted to show he could direct something vaguely cinematic (despite the budget limitations) which is why you have the slow pan across the ship at the start and you have some recreations of Blade Runner moments.

Another poster mentioned the Kochanski scenes and I think it would have been possible to have made a much shorter Back to Earth with those scenes as the beginning middle and end. There was a fan edit that had Lister reading Jane Austen as the opening scene which worked very well, and the moment he says goodbye to Kochanski and returns to Red Dwarf would have been a fitting way to end things.

[Ben Saunders]

Sure, it’s curry-adjacent.

[Dave]

Chris looking more like VIII Chris than X Chris always throws me off a bit

There is something very weird about BTE where they all look much closer to how they appeared in VIII than X, despite it being ten years after the former and only three years before the latter.

[Professor Flibble]

Chris looking more like VIII Chris than X Chris always throws me off a bit

There is something very weird about BTE where they all look much closer to how they appeared in VIII than X, despite it being ten years after the former and only three years before the latter.

Other than Danny, who never really ages anyway, I see exactly what you mean. That was the last time we had a really good Kryten mask too.

[Author]

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