Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum ‘Red Dwarf- Animated’…New Online Series

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  • #103511
    Phil
    Participant

    I nominate this thread for Hall of Fame status.

    #103512
    Carlito
    Participant

    Just to go on the defensive a little here, to my understanding (and apologies to the guys if I’m wrong on this) the project was originally launched as a one-off by Pete (lego777) as an opportunity to develop his animation skills, and then Kev (karcreat) who is a successful professional cartoonist by trade – brought his artwork and vision to the table. As it developed and they figured it could make for a neat project to entertain the fans, they brought fellow fans on board (me, Carrie aka redhead etc.)

    Our intentions are two fold… to create something ‘Red Dwarf’ that will hopefully entertain the fans of the show if they watch it, and also for us all to dip our respective wicks into developing/exercising areas which interest us… animation, art, writing, voice work…

    There are no ill intentions behind it from any angle. We have nothing to gain but life experience. We’re not making money. We may or may not receive praise, but even if we do we will equally expect criticism too. We don’t expect to be ‘noticed’. It’s a fan project. We’re just fans of the show. Yeah, from that respect it could be considered an ego trip ie. “we love Red Dwarf and we?d love the opportunity to actually play with GNP?s toys for a bit.”

    So what? Isn’t that true of any fan project? It’s a bit of fun. If the end result is an entertaining collection of Red Dwarf based material, then it’s win-win. We shouldn’t be taken to task for wanting to go about it with a degree of seriousness and encourage feedback from the potential audience. G&T isn’t reflective of every item of feedback we’ve received, just a percentage of it. The ‘movie vs series’ debate got a generally mixed reaction, so we decided to work on both. Out of selfishness? No. It would be SO much easier for us to create six-minute videos, in every aspect of production. If we were only interested in doing things our way, we’d surely choose the easiest way?

    We just want to create something we can be proud of and something that will be entertaining.

    The former may be self-serving, but the latter has the potential audience at the forefront. The latter is the reason why Pete is spending up to 10 hours on some occasions rendering and re-rendering single scenes. The latter is the reason Kev is taking time away from actual commissioned artwork to produce whatever new character model I’ve dreamed up that week. The latter is the reason why, rather than working on original material which may earn me some money in these lean times, I’m rewriting an RDA script at 4am for the sixth time. The latter is the reason why Damien (Beligium) is enjoying a ‘busman’s weekend’ away from his IT job creating an all-new RDA website. The latter is the reason why Carrie is completely rewriting completed prose RD fanfics into script form. It’s for the love of the show, and a desire to ‘do right’ by our foray into creating an homage to it.

    A labour of love which we are eager to share. Nothing more sinister than that.

    #103513
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Can’t we all be friends?

    I don’t care much about anyone’s motivation as long as I get to see some animated Dwarf (which may just turn out very funny). I’d prefer short episodes (Episodes of 10 minutes or shorter are not unusual in the cartoon department, even on tv!) but I’ll take longer episodes or a film as well.

    So you guys shouldn’t waste time shouting at eadch other but get busy drawing. And everyone else should be constructive or shut up. Okay, so obviously we can’t all be friends, but this is annoying.

    [/rant]

    #103515
    redhead85
    Participant

    Thanks for clarifying Ben ^__^ I was having trouble understanding why such a light-hearted, fun project had suddenly seemed so political on this thread. Ah so you’re writing on the Red Dwarf fan comic? I must admit I’ve been checking in to see how it’s all going – let me know when it gets off the ground proper so I can have a looksy.

    I agree with the Leen on this one in that I was rather surprised as to why this thread has descended into such heavy discussions. On with the product! Rest assured, Pete and Kevin are working flat out to get the animation sorted – I guess me and Carl are flagging trying to keep up with creative ideas…! I don’t know about the others, but I’d genuinely like some suggestions for script ideas that I can try and develop.

    Hummingbird – I know you’ve sent me ideas for me to write as a fan fic for you, not sure if that may be too long though? But your ideas are fab x

    #103514
    Carlito
    Participant

    There’s no hostility on my end. I’m a lover, not a fighter. :)

    I still maintain that six minutes is too short… not a general rule, I mean specifically Red Dwarf… there are so many elements to balance with RD. Also I take issue with this statement: “Just because something?s less than ten minutes long doesn?t mean it?s just a ?sketch?. If anything, if your plots can?t fit into a shorter format then there?s probably something wrong with them.”

    It doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that ANY episode of Red Dwarf should feasibly fit within ten minutes?

    I’m not saying that it simply cannot be done, I just don’t believe that it can be done satisfactorily. Not with RD, anyway, and not without splitting stories into multi-parts.

    And then if people are of the mindset that casual viewers won’t tend to watch anything longer than 6-10 mins, then they’re likely to check out part 1 and not bother with any subsequent parts, right? How can you have an intelligent and satisfying comedic plot, and couple it with humour, character, mythology, science et al, and squeeze all of that into six minutes?

    > “It doesn?t feel like you?re really doing this for anyone but yourselves, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest and, to be frank, a little offensive.”

    It’s a real shame you feel that way. Pete and Kev have always been more than open to fellow RD fans jumping on board with this project. In fact, when you indicated an interest, you were offered on a couple of occasions to be the voice of Kryten… I even sent you a link to the script and asked if, as a creative person yourself, you would be kind enough to provide feedback… and we had no response whatsoever.

    Which is fine, but it’s just an example of how this isn’t some closed-door self serving idea, but a project aimed towards and shaped by RD fans.

    #103524
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Can?t we all be friends?

    Remember TheLeen has the power to send all your molecules flying in a thousand different directions.

    #103527
    redhead85
    Participant

    > Remember TheLeen has the power to send all your molecules flying in a thousand different directions.

    …like Dark Phoneix from X-men? :-S

    #103530
    karcreat
    Participant

    have to stress redhead, I never aimed any of my barb in your direction. Most of my criticism is aimed at karcreat. This is clearly a very personal project for him, and he wants it to do well. I can?t fault him for that. But I?d rather he were being honest about his motives and reasons, and he?s offered no less than three different accounts of why ?Red Dwarf: The Animated Series? exists.

    ******

    That not enough fer ya, Ben my boy?…

    In all seriousness, i still haven’t a clue as to why you feel the need to be so snarky concerning a project that fans are doing FOR FUN…it’s a bit of a mystery to me.

    ******

    It?s also rather telling that rather than actually touch upon any of my criticisms you instead decide to attack my character (adding winky-smilies so as to make the whole thing seem unoffensive and, I?m sure you think, charming).

    ******

    No, wrong again, actually….LOL!

    The ‘smileys’ are meant to more or less pinpoint the areas I am commenting on where I am just NOT taking what you had to say seriously…sorry you missed that too!

    And as far as my ‘attacking your character’, you actually started that up, Ben..by stating that we were all being dishonest and that you felt ‘lied to’, that we were ‘in this for ourselves’, etc…really, YOU don’t consider THAT a bit ‘personal’?….:) (NOTE: That was a straight on smile, no wink included)…

    ******

    The side-effect this has is that when you then went on to address my points it all came across as rather passive-aggressive. The uppercase ?THANK YOU? towards the end there only cemented that feeling.

    ******

    Again, Ben…if your opinions on this mattered to anyone OTHER than yourself, I suppose I would be concerned that others took my statements to have these meanings, but I find that possibilty rather unlikely, soooo….the ‘THANK YOU’ was in all caps as it was SINCERELY directed at all the support we have received on this board, I wanted it noted and to STAND OUT…again, sorry you missed the intention, (you seem to be doing that rather a lot here!) but you instantly twist said attempt into a ‘negative’ from my end…why is this? I have to say you seem, as you have from ‘day one’ IMO, to be the ‘Neagative Nelly’ here…

    ******

    Just as you seldom pop your head out of this thread to see what the rest of the community is doing, I seldom pop my head in it because this entire project has felt uncomfortable for me since day one.

    ******
    Ahhh…a masked jibe at me, via where I post, how often I come here and so on…I get it.

    Yeah, some moderators have mentioned that ‘why don’t you post elsewhere here too’ bit too, and I have to say, I would LOVE to have the TIME to poke around here at G&T, as most of the people here come across as witty and quite interesting, as to the threads/topics (hell, they’re DOCTOR WHO fans, another of my all time fave shows…how could they NOT all be clever and a bit mad?…;)…sadly, I just do NOT have the time, running two businesses, I’m lucky if if I have ANY free time to devote to ‘Red Dwarf- Animated’…the reason I STARTED this thread here was because I knew there were RD fans here, and I wanted to let them know about our project…I figured they would get a kick out of it, and for the MOST PART, thats been the case.

    Believe me, if I HAD the time, this is the one BBS I would LOVE to scan through and post to, but I KNOW myself well enough to know, I would get caught up in some threads and be here for HOURS, (hell, look at how long THIS post is at this point!!…;)

    ******

    I?d feel differently if you genuinely seemed to want constructive criticism but, y?know, it doesn?t feel like that at all.

    ******

    ‘Constructive criticism’ is not snarky comments like ‘welcome to the internet, cica 1997’, Ben.
    ‘Constructive criticism’ is not stating how ‘from day one’ the entire project has rubbed you wrong.

    Its supposed to be CONSTRUCTIVE…please don’t attempt to lecture me concerning what I want and how it should be defined when all you have had to offer has been smarty commentary and negative predictions.

    ******

    I?d have far more respect for you if you could just be honest about why you?re doing this rather than throw us varying reasons and then getting spitty when someone calls you on it.

    ******

    Gaining your ‘respect’ is hardly a point I lose sleep over, LOL!

    And see, I’ve stated here NUMEROUS times why I am doing all of this, you either ‘don’t buy it’ (whatever…again, no sleep lost there) or you cannot process the info…no idea which it is, all I know is that most posters here seem to have ‘gotten it’, NP.

    ******

    Oh. Right. Well, um. I can?t say I?ve ever been particularly religious, so I?m not sure that?s really appropriate

    ******

    You need a new dictionary, Ben.

    ‘Pious’ can also be defined as ‘marked by false devoutness; solemnly hypocritical’.
    I used the term in reference to your repeated claims to ‘want to be helpful’ here.

    ******

    Redhead…Keep in mind, I wasn?t attacking you – as I?ve mentioned, you seem very much a part of the community now, something I can?t really say for karcreat. He?s only here for himself, it seems. I?d love for him to prove me wrong.

    ******

    I have offered you proof again and again, stating why I am doing this project, Ben…I guess at this point if you can’t/won’t see it/understand it, it’s really your problem… could you please leave it at that, and stop with the negative ‘commentary’ and ‘predictions’ at this point, as it’s all pretty redundant and rather ‘glass half empty’.

    Thanks in advance….
    -K

    #103532
    karcreat
    Participant

    Thanks, Carl…all stated PERFECTLY, right on the money…

    Gee, is it any wonder we took ya on as a writer?…;)

    Thanks, my friend…

    -K

    #103533
    karcreat
    Participant

    “So you guys shouldn?t waste time shouting at eadch other but get busy drawing. And everyone else should be constructive or shut up. Okay, so obviously we can?t all be friends, but this is annoying.”

    Agreed!…;)

    Sorry to take time away from the topic at hand, but I felt a bit ‘personally attacked’ by someone that has been nothing but negative towards us and our project from the start, felt it needed addressing…but you are QUITE right…let’s all get back to work and get something done that everyone can enjoy…(thanks, TheLeen…;)

    K

    #103539
    Beligium
    Participant

    Wow i picked the right week to get involved in this project… :)

    #103541
    karcreat
    Participant

    Wow i picked the right week to get involved in this project? :)

    LOL!!!

    Welcome aboard, Beligium…;)

    -K

    #103543
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I’m with TheLeen on this one! Shut up and bring me my Animated Dwarf!! I’ve waited long enough! :D

    BTW Pete. I’m booking a hotel for DJ, but thanks for the offer.

    #103544
    hummingbird
    Participant

    Are we playing nicely yet, children?

    #103546
    redhead85
    Participant

    Hi hun – did you get my message?

    > Hummingbird – I know you?ve sent me ideas for me to write as a fan fic for you, not sure if that may be too long though? But your ideas are fab x

    The guys have asked me to write another script for the series but I’m a bit stumped for ideas. Do you have any ideas? With credit of course!! I wouldn’t steal them away in the night…

    #103547
    Beligium
    Participant

    >Hi hun – did you get my message?

    >> Hummingbird – I know you?ve sent me ideas for me to write as a fan fic for you, not sure if that may be too long though? But your ideas are fab x

    >The guys have asked me to write another script for the series but I?m a bit stumped for ideas. Do you have any ideas? With credit of course!! I wouldn?t steal them away in the night?

    You can ask Carl for the treatment i came up with, I’ll never get round to writing it in all honesty… :)

    #103548
    redhead85
    Participant

    > You can ask Carl for the treatment i came up with, I?ll never get round to writing it in all honesty? :)

    He’s probably on the case. I’m sure he’ll give me a poke if I’m needed.

    #103549
    Carlito
    Participant

    Well, this is the first I’m hearing that Mr Beligium isn’t going to be writing it himself, so if you’re happy with that, I’ll send it Carrie’s way…

    #103550
    Beligium
    Participant

    To be honest i’d forgotten all about it :)

    #103554
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Perhaps http://www.karcreat.com/RedDwarfAnimated.html could include a dedicated forum?

    A bone of contention seems to be that one or two of you aren’t contributing elsewhere on G+T because you’re so busy. Moving this discussion elsewhere would at least deflect that criticism. Especially since this thread is slowly becoming a meet-and-greet for your writing staff.

    I don’t really get Ben’s criticism as to why you’re doing this. You can have more than one reason and all of them can be equally valid. However, for me, the prospect of any kind of fan fiction is pretty ghastly. I’ve been burnt in the past and even written some pretty dreadful RD stories when I was a youngling. A six minute episode (or even part of an episode) would be a far better way of tempting people in.

    #103557
    karcreat
    Participant

    Excellent point, RE the forum….and in fact, Pete is already workin’on that, designing a second RDA based site that includes such a forum…

    We will post a link to it as soon as its ready to visit…and thank you for your support, man….:)

    -K

    #103563
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    In the course of this debate you have once again shifted your core reasons for wanting to make some animated Red Dwarf. You’ve said it was for the fans. Then you said it was to hone your skills. Then you said it was for the fans again. Now you’ve decided it’s both.

    If you’re doing it for the fans then… well, why the Hell are you even engaging with me on this level? If you feel I’m just being offensive and horrible you could just say “Well, sorry you don’t seem to be interested in the project” and move on. Your behaviour, karcreat, not only indicates a certain level of unprofessionalism but also seems to indicate that I’ve struck a nerve with my assessment. And you can’t seem to let it go either, because you’re actively engaging me in the discussion, and in such an aggressive manner too.

    If it really were “for the fans” you’d perhaps listen to what people have had to say concerning the length. Particularly Carl’s comments:

    I still maintain that six minutes is too short? not a general rule, I mean specifically Red Dwarf? there are so many elements to balance with RD.

    After Kris and I locked down the comic script for our story, I took the liberty of re-writing it as a screenplay to add to my writing portfolio. Y’know how many pages it came to? Eight pages, including cover sheet. Going by the Hollywood standard of “one page = one minute” (which is usually not 100% accurate but it’s a good metric to use) I’ve written what is, I think, a good Series I style story that fits nicely into the sort of timeframe that most New Media should be sticking to.

    (Hell, if you like I’ll send you a copy of the screenplay after the comic is freely available. I wouldn’t mind seeing you chaps trying to animate it.)

    Now onto the second point: If you’re doing this for yourself, for your own personal reasons, to hone your skills… well, the obvious question is why not come up with something new and original? I can understand why you’ve opted to go for a preexisting concept, though…

    • The characters already exist. They have personalities, fleshed out histories, and established relationships. You don’t need to do any of that fiddly “coming up with people” stuff, such as designing the look of the characters and how they react to any given situation.
    • Both the location and setting already exist, which means you don’t have to worry about any of that preamble. Saves you the effort of having of having to think of where to put your characters.
    • The premise, despite having changed much over the show’s run, is pretty much already defined – what’s more the beauty of choosing Red Dwarf means you can cherry-pick whichever premise suits the story you want to tell. This saves you time because you don’t have to worry about working out where your characters are going to go.
    • Easily the best bit – because there are people like Carl, redhead85, and myself who would give their mother’s kneecaps to write stories set in the Red Dwarf universe, you don’t actually have to do much at all save for making pictures move and recording dialogue. Fantastic!

    Which is all very nice for you, I suppose, because it means you can cut right to the chase- the animating. The animating a full-length movie which you intend to post on the internet and expect people to sit and watch from beginning to end, despite the fact that New Media very evidently doesn’t work well with that sort of thing. Fair enough.

    Best of luck to you. Really.

    #103564
    karcreat
    Participant

    “Your behaviour, karcreat, not only indicates a certain level of unprofessionalism but also seems to indicate that I?ve struck a nerve with my assessment.”

    Wow.

    I ask you politely to ‘let this go’, you ignore said request and post more negative comments about the project, me, etc…and you surely consider THAT ‘professional’?

    Please.

    I’m as professional as they come, bud.

    I don’t make snap judgements regarding others’ work, I don’t throw insults and snarky commentary around without merit.
    I don’t start fights. But if you insult me or my friends, you best count on A RESPONSE.

    However, I will attempt to take the high road one last time here, and politely ask you to simply DROP THIS.

    I agree with the others here that have made posts asking us to just ‘let this go’ and move on…I would like to do so, we have a lot of work to do on RDA, whether YOU consider it worthwhile or not.

    -K

    #103565
    Carlito
    Participant

    Personally, I’m more than happy to sit in front of my PC and watch a stream of a TV show or a movie for 30-90 mins.

    I watched the new episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm this morning for half an hour and thought nothing of it. Some days I get lost in Youtube for hours just perusing various vids, professional and amateur alike.

    I really don’t get why this length issue is taking up so much forum space. Those who want to watch it will, those who don’t won’t. If the average person is willing to watch six minutes, fine. If we aim to knock them bandy in the first six minutes, maybe they’ll stick around for more, eh?

    #103566
    karcreat
    Participant

    …What he said…;)

    -K

    #103567
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I’m pretty much done here. I expect I’ll have much more friendly conversations with Carl and redhead elsewhere on G&T, and I expect I shan’t see karcreat outside of this thread at all.

    If you need help setting up your own forum I’d be happy to lend a hand.

    Best of luck to you.

    #103570
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I must admit, it is getting a tad annoying for the G&T staff to have people using our bandwidth and webspace to conduct their business, whilst taking no interest in contributing to the site in any other way. If it was a bunch of people who’d met on G&T discussing a project, we’d encourage it. And if the topic attracted new members who joined in elsewhere, that’d be fine. But it’s a bit like someone holding a meeting in a pub, hogging a lovely big table and nursing one bottle of mineral water between everyone for five hours.

    I’d encourage those of you who aren’t G&T regulars to consider whether you want to start joining in on other threads, and if not, consider whether it’d be more polite to have these discussions elsewhere. We don’t mind you canvassing for opinions (even if you do completely ignore the views of people who make online video for a living), it’s just that some things are better off done in private.

    #103571
    redhead85
    Participant

    Sorry Ian *hangs head in shame* I must admit though, I actually *did* meet these guys through G&T so thank you for facilitating ^__^ I do so love keeping up with this site.

    Plus I’m hopefully meeting with the lovely Jo next week – I asked her if you lot would be up for it too. And I’ll buy a bottle of wine, I promise ;-)

    #103572
    Beligium
    Participant

    >I?d encourage those of you who aren?t G&T regulars to consider whether you want to start joining in on other threads, and if not, consider whether it?d be more polite to have these discussions elsewhere. We don?t mind you canvassing for opinions (even if you do completely ignore the views of people who make online video for a living), it?s just that some things are better off done in private.

    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/09/painstakingly-obvious-news-is-painstakingly-obvious#comment-159651
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/09/i-want-this#comment-159649
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/08/welcome-to-shooting-stars#comment-159436
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/08/welcome-to-shooting-stars#comment-159442
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/08/welcome-to-shooting-stars#comment-159448
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/09/derren-brown-the-events#comment-159451
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/09/derren-brown-the-events#comment-159452
    http://ganymede.tv/forum/2009/09/derren-brown-the-events#comment-159457

    As i only joined a few days ago, i just wanted to show that i have ventured out of this thread ;)

    Also as mentioned earlier, a new site with Forum is under construction and should be with us soon (Yay Drupal!)

    I must say i am felling a bit of a clique mentality from this forum. Fair enough it seems that many of you are real life friends who have known each other for years, but as someone who has just joined, and been more than willing to visit other threads, read the articles, etc, i am feeling quite a level of animosity in my general direction which i feel is unwarranted. At the end of the day you don’t have to read the thread if it annoys you, and hell, you could if it bothered you that much, exercise your mod powers and lock the thread, but you haven’t, and i’m guessing that that’s because at the end of the day, we’re all just fans of the same smegging thing. :)

    I know that there are egos on both sides, and that people are bigging things up, but that’s just because they’re excited to have such a fun project to play with. At the end of the day, it’s just a few fan tributes, by people who invested alot of time, effort and emotion into them. If you like it great, if you don’t, you don’t have to worry about it, there’s plenty more stuff on the internet :)

    I’m just enjoying the excuse to rejoin the Dwarf Universe, watch my DVDs, listen to my audio books, and read old copies of the Smegazine. To me it’s an excuse to collaborate with one of my oldest friends, and hopefully make some new ones, which was why i joined this forum instead of just being a passive contributor. Can’t we just draw a line and go forward from here as a number of other people have suggested. If it goes well, then it’s a fan project that people can enjoy, if we only end up making one, then we’ll all have learnt something to take on to further projects (such as being the first time I’ve used Drupal in my case), if it fails, then at least we’ll have had fun while doing it and that’s all I’m looking for at the end of the day :)

    #103573
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > As i only joined a few days ago, i just wanted to show that i have ventured out of this thread ;)

    In that case, Ian wasn’t talking about you, so there’s no need to prove yourself.

    > I must say i am felling a bit of a clique mentality from this forum.

    I’m sorry, this is utter balderdash. There’s a bit of a rough edge to the place, sure, but we’ve had loads of new posters turn up recently and stay, presumably happy with the atmosphere and people. After you made it clear that you’d be using areas other than this thread on the site you got a proper welcome, too.

    #103574
    Beligium
    Participant

    >> I must say i am felling a bit of a clique mentality from this forum.

    >I?m sorry, this is utter balderdash. There?s a bit of a rough edge to the place, sure, but we?ve had loads of new posters turn up recently and stay, presumably happy with the atmosphere and people. After you made it clear that you?d be using areas other than this thread on the site you got a proper welcome, too.

    Maybe clique was the wrong word to use, i meant more of a “us” vs “them” type of feel with regards to this topic. I just felt instantly like I’d walked into a warfield straight off my first post…

    I must admit i’ve not had that feeling in any other thread here so far.

    Sorry I’m a bit grouchy today due to being off work with a bad back. :(

    #103575
    Carlito
    Participant

    > If it was a bunch of people who?d met on G&T discussing a project, we?d encourage it.

    To be fair to us, that’s basically what it is.

    Lego and Karcreat already knew each other from another forum, and Beligium and I know each other *in real life and that* but otherwise everyone involved met on G&T. Red Dwarf Animated is basically the bastard offspring of G&T, it would be a shame if we weren’t allowed to continue discussing it on the very site that formed it.

    > We don?t mind you canvassing for opinions (even if you do completely ignore the views of people who make online video for a living)

    That’s a bit unfair too. Those who make online video for a living are professionals who have a specific M.O. when doing so. There’s a psychology behind it that we don’t especially need to follow because we’re not in the same boat. We don’t require ‘as many eyes as possible’ on our videos (even though it would be nice), we’re not trying to earn money (and obviously couldn’t anyway for all kinds of legal and moral reasons) or shill anything. We didn’t ignore anyone’s view, we took everything under consideration.

    Call us delusional and that’s fine, but we just want to create something that wouldn’t seem out of place were it a real installment of Red Dwarf shown on “proper telly”. We’ll never meet those standards, but we can aspire. To attempt to reach those lofty standards, we simply need more than 6 mins. If you all still agree with the “six minute rule” even when our first episode/movie goes online, maybe we’ll break it down into parts. But we’re not doing anyone any harm, and who knows, you may all get a kick out of it when it’s done? I hope so.

    #103576
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >I must admit i?ve not had that feeling in any other thread here so far.

    … which should tell you that there’s something about this thread in particular. It’s been alluded to who we’re talking about, but just to make it clear: the problem we have is with certain individuals arriving unheralded on the site and saying “We’ve got this project, you’re all Dwarf fans, do any of you want to get onboard?”, without ever taking the time to get to know the community and people beforehand.

    And having harvested a ready-made source of fans (one that has been gathered together, essentially, as a result of the creators of this site’s work, time, effort, money and bandwidth), said people are now using the site as their own personal advertising board – without ever going elsewhere on the site. And we know, because we have logs, whether certain people are only ever coming to this thread or going elsewhere.

    Now, we’re not being heavy-handed about this. If we had “rules” on it, we could take a hardline – lock the thread, ban the users, whatever. We don’t want to do that, we’re merely point out why we personally don’t really like it. Our interests are in fostering a community – not in having a little corner of the site that shuts itself off and doesn’t interact.

    This doesn’t refer to existing users who’ve got involved with the project and want to talk about it here (even if we argue with some of you sometimes, we’re glad of every single regular visitor to the site), or those who’ve come along as a result of it and got involved elsewhere. Merely those who’ve come along with a specific purpose – to tap the pool of willing fans to (a) get involved and (b) watch the thing – and not given anything back.

    It’s not the first time we’ve had this debate, but even the ScutterCast guys saw what we were getting at, and we get along fine with them (well, with ori-STUDFARM – I don’t think anyone else posts here, which is fine, that’s their choice!) now…

    #103577
    Phil
    Participant

    Who farted?

    #103579
    Carlito
    Participant

    Andre the Giant.

    #103581
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    And now I feel all warm inside……

    #103582
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    BTW. That was made to try and bring a smile….there was no sarcastic intent in that comment.

    #103583
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I think everyone involved in this animation should remember that the comments made by the mods (or staff, or cunts, or whatever you want to call us) are designed to be fair and not attack you. We’ve not closed the thread we’re just bringing to your attention some of the things that bother us, and we’re not looking for a big bitch fight as a result.

    #103585
    Carlito
    Participant

    Noted. We come in peace (said the Deaf Masturbation Society spokesman)

    #103586
    Beligium
    Participant

    All i want is calm, and maybe a doughnut. :)

    #103587
    Carlito
    Participant

    How about a doughnut but instead of sugar, powdered Kalms sprinkled over the top of it?

    I once wrote a novel about doughnuts but it never got published – too many plot holes.

    #103588
    Beligium
    Participant

    You always were a bit jammy.

    #103590
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Personally, I?m more than happy to sit in front of my PC and watch a stream of a TV show or a movie for 30-90 mins.

    Me too, actually, if I know what I’m getting, i.e. an episode of a tv show I missed off the telly, etc.

    For something starting off though I can see the point of keeping within the 6-10 minute time-frame, at least in starting off. Sure this might be considered different as it’s based on a preexisting series, but it’s still a different project. It could be completely different in tone ans style for all we know.

    That being said, I don’t have a problem sitting for longer myself but keeping it to small chunks to hook in new people might not be a bad thing.

    As for this:
    >It doesn?t make any sense. Are you saying that ANY episode of Red Dwarf should feasibly fit within ten minutes?

    Most episodes of Red Dwarf are self contained stories. Having 8 minute episodes doesn’t mean you should tell the whole story in 8 minutes though. Someone earlier pointed to Dr Horrible as an example. There you have several short episodes but they all make one story. It does mean that you have to keep your small chunks (oo-er) within logical plot parameters, but there’s no reason why a story can’t span several episodes.

    #103591
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    I think, EVERYBODY’s right – except me, so just forget I spoke, okay?

    #103598
    Carlito
    Participant

    > For something starting off though I can see the point of keeping within the 6-10 minute time-frame, at least in starting off.

    I may have neglected to mention this through the whole run-time debate, which – if I did – is a bit puzzling, but our very VERY first video, a sort of mini-pilot called Timehole, probably does run to around the 6 minute mark (and I think it’s practically finished too, so should be viewable very soon)

    It was written by Kev at the earliest stages of the project (with a bit of editing from myself later on) and you may have seen some test animation on the website or posted on here.

    I should stress, it’s more of an extended test animation/preparation so it’s not neccessarily indicative of the quality of the series/movie so when it does go online I hope people won’t be too quick to judge us on the basis of it… I’m not saying its bad, I just mean that it probably suffers a little with the underdevelopment problem that I noted, being so short and all, and I think we’ll churn out some quite interesting stuff with those reigns lifted, but still it’s a little taster. That should be online within the next week or two, methinks, but don’t hold me to that!

    #103619
    ChrisM
    Participant

    “For something starting off though I can see the point of keeping within the 6-10 minute time-frame, at least in starting off. “

    So I was talking about ‘starting off’ then?
    Dear me, I really should reread my posts before submitting.

    #103622
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    That’s all well and good, but what about something that’s starting off?

    #103647
    Jo
    Participant

    >> If it was a bunch of people who?d met on G&T discussing a project, we?d encourage it.

    >To be fair to us, that?s basically what it is.

    Except that it’s not. You got involved with the project after it was posted on here, you and a bunch of G&T regulars didn’t come up with the idea and post this thread to see if other posters were interested.
    You were already a poster on G&T and you continue to roam outside of this thread as does Carrie. As I understand it the Karcreat rarely, if ever, ventures outside of this thread and wasn’t a G&T poster before the thread was started.

    There is an almost identical thread on TOS forums and no doubt on many other RD forums. This thread was started by someone who wanted to collect people for a project, but has shown no interest in mixing with the rest of the people on here or getting involved in any other conversations. Even those about RD, which I find a little odd from someone claiming to be a RD fan. If anything I’d say that his was the cliquey attitude.

    I don’t think the G&T team are attacking the project, in fact I think you’d be hard pressed to find a group of people who were more enthusiastic about encouraging fan activity on the internet. The problem seems to lie with the fact that Karcreat has used the website, which the G&T team have worked very hard on for many years, for his own purposes without having the good grace to contribute to the G&T community. I don’t think you can really blame them for being slightly pissed off can you?

    (Just to make this clear I’m not speaking for anyone else, this is purely my view on the subject.)

    #103657
    Carlito
    Participant

    Nobody thinks G&T are attacking the project. It was just an argument between Karcreat and Ben, which is over now, it seems.

    There are similar threads on other forums, to promote the online show. It makes sense to inform those who are actually likely to watch any of it ie. the Red Dwarf internet fans. Also, people make it sound almost like we’re stealing space from the site to advertise the project… which may be true in a way, but we just want to offer the people who are most likely to have an actual genuine interest the chance to see it. We’d love lots of people to watch, but the bottom line is that it makes zero difference if 10 people or 100 people watch, so its not so much advertising as just being public with a project that should interest some G&Ters.

    It may have started as a couple of guys from another board posting a thread on here, but as its evolved its involved peeps from here, and there are more (regular, visible) G&Ters on the RDA team than non-G&Ters, as it currently stands.

    Beligium is working on the brand spanking new RDA website at the moment, which contains its own forum (simply to discuss the project – won’t be competition!) so hopefully anybody interested enough to keep up with the progress will check the new site out when it goes live and bookmark it, and maybe even join the forum, so that we’re not causing unwanted hassle on here and elsewhere.

    That’s not to say that once the site opens we flutter off never to be seen again, not at all… nobody’s ‘using’ this site… I’ve been coming to this site for years, and posting on the forum for around a year, long before the RDA project. I’ve practically abandoned the (non-Dwarf) message board I used previously for over a decade, because I so much prefer this one. I simply mean that all the heated debates and long discussions and self-defence etc etc can take place over there, and we can keep our input to this thread upbeat and informative to those interested without getting bogged down in these kinds of issues.

    I guess what my point is… okay, maybe Karcreat doesn’t comment often in other threads (although he did confess very soon upon his arrival here – ironically enough, in another thread – that he’s very strapped for time and probably wouldn’t be able to contribute as much as he’d like) but there are people involved in RDA now that do contribute to the community fairly often, and Karcreat isn’t the sole representative of the project… so a beef with Karcreat shouldn’t be a beef with RDA as a whole. We’ve ALL been plugging the project on here, not just Kev.

    #103658
    Jo
    Participant

    Karcreat doesn’t get involved in any other threads, ever. If memory serves I believe the other thread he posted in once since his arrival was him plugging this again. This is my point.

    >so a beef with Karcreat shouldn?t be a beef with RDA as a whole

    It isn’t! You keep replying to things not aimed at you!

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