Refresh For The Memory: Series IV Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching WHITE HOLE, DIMENSION JUMP and MELTDOWN. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1

[Dave]

Extremely strong Byte IMO.

Dimension Jump and White Hole are all-timers, and I’ve always liked Meltdown more than its reputation suggests. It’s maybe a bit sillier and more cartoonish than Dwarf usually tends to get, but there are so many funny moments that it doesn’t bother me.

Also, these episodes belong in that IV-V era of being some of the first episodes of the show that I ever saw, so they have extra nostalgia points for that.

[Jonathan Capps]

Meltdown has contributed some of the all time best gags the show had. Winnie the Pooh, Caligula’s slapping, “don’t eyeball me, Gandhi” and it tops it off with a worthwhile, if a little blunt, anti-war message that is very welcome in the show.
By the way, please buy my new Christmas single “MARK CLAYTON IS A SWEATY NONCE”.

[Unrumble]

Caligula’s slapping

[Dave]

By the way, please buy my new Christmas single “MARK CLAYTON IS A SWEATY NONCE”.

Somewhere, there’s a Mark Clayton getting all the hate mail that should be going to Clayton Mark.

[Warbodog]

Extremely strong Byte IMO.

My favourite’s either this or the Quarantine byte. But having realised just how great Justice is, I don’t think there’s a fake byte of three consecutive episodes as strong as Justice – White Hole – Dimension Jump. It’ll come down to how much I love Terrorform.

[Dave]

But having realised just how great Justice is, I don’t think there’s a fake byte of three consecutive episodes as strong as Justice – White Hole – Dimension Jump.

Yeah that’s a pretty great run of three. Not sure I can think of one that tops it.

[Flap Jack]

But having realised just how great Justice is, I don’t think there’s a fake byte of three consecutive episodes as strong as Justice – White Hole – Dimension Jump.

Yeah that’s a pretty great run of three. Not sure I can think of one that tops it.

The Inquisitor-Terrorform-Quarantine, maybe? But there wouldn’t be much in it.

[Stilianides]

White Hole

I don’t love this episode quite as much as most people seem to.

I get that part of the joke with Talkie Toaster is the repetitive and predictable nature of the lines, but that section of the episode doesn’t stand up too well to repeated viewings for me (and they should definitely have written some new gags for the toaster if they were ever to bring it back).

The “missed the decimal point” line always seemed really clumsy, too. It would have been much simpler and more credible if it had been, “225 years…?” “That’s not years, that’s seconds.”

There are a lot of great ideas in the rest of the episode, however, such as the time phenomena, Susan, the Kryten/Rimmer scene, and ‘No chance you metal bastard.”

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

a worthwhile, if a little blunt, anti-war message that is very welcome in the show.

But isn’t the BBC supposed to be unbiased?  What about people that love war?  Why isn’t there a pro-war message to counter it?  Typical of the woke liberal PC brigade wishy washy nanny state BBC.

[Jonathan Capps]

Somewhere, there’s a Mark Clayton getting all the hate mail that should be going to Clayton Mark.

I think my brain short circuited.

[Dave]

I think my brain short circuited.

[International Debris]

White Hole

My favourite episode. I’m a huge fan of character-based episodes, but this one is just superb regardless. 

Classic moments all stuffed into one episode:

Talkie Toaster. 

Ramases Niblick the Third. 

No sounds to hear. 

We don’t have any lasers.

I’m fine thank you Susan. 

No chance you metal bastard. 

I’d sacrifice your life for the good of the crew. 

The whole Captain Oates routine. 

The time dilation scene. 

So what is it?

Playing pool with planets. 

The ‘Cinzano Bianco stains pool tables’ line. 

Trumped up, farty little smeghead.

It’s just so rich with ideas and classic gags. Its origins in the second novel are clear: the three-act structure here is practically three different stories. It could easily form the basis of a feature length special. They’ve taken the already dense and hilarious passages of the book and refined them, throwing in as much original material as they would a normal episode. Superb stuff. 

[Rudolph]

I appreciate that Red Dwarf has a razor thin budget, but it always brings me out of it when the location footage for Meltdown is clearly shot in a park somewhere in Shepperton. Seeing the row of houses behind Rimmer when he does his boot camp inspection is very distracting.

[Dave]

Seeing the row of houses behind Rimmer when he does his boot camp inspection is very distracting.

I suppose the wax droids have got to live somewhere. 

[Flap Jack]

White Hole – Fantastic episode. It’s hard to believe it was ever regarded as a weaker one in the series (although I have to admit the audience reactions did seem very understated). The way the characters are bouncing off each other is so good, the concept is very effective, and the concentration of classic gags is high too. The only real disappointment is that this is notionally a Holly episode, and while she gets some good stuff she is still absent most of the time.

– Anyone else feel sorry for Talkie in this? They switch him on, when he’s a device whose only reason to live is to serve toast, and before he’s barely had a chance to speak they’re already insisting he shut the fuck up about toast forever. They only rebuilt him as a test, but it seems like the only reason they keep him switched on is so they can torture him.

– Not too happy about Rimmer’s Eskimo racism. Unless that little factoid of his about Eskimos sacrificing their elderly is true, but I’m guessing that it isn’t.

– Nice to hear some actual discussion about getting back to Earth still, even at this relatively late stage. They even mention the possible time travel solution, which is all building to make Tikka to Ride extra annoying.

– I never could work out how Holly becoming super intelligent turned her into a hologram, but it does look cool.

– It seems very convenient that Holly can only be present on one screen at any one time, so that the rest of the crew can be kept in the dark about the whole situation, but maybe it’s a sign of her reduced intelligence that she can’t divide her attention.

– Funny how them being on low/emergency power never does anything to the artificial gravity. So many missed opportunities to have the cast being pulled around the set on wires.

– So many good moments in this episode, but one which caught me off guard was Kryten and Rimmer exploding and reforming in a different location, and Kryten reacting with “Mmm. Interesting.”.

– If the events of the episode were erased from time, what’s to stop them from repeating the Holly mishap, but without a white hole around to save them? Given that Lister references playing pool with planets later, maybe Kryten was wrong, and they actually do remember on some level.

– The events of the episode are undone, including Talkie being rebuilt. So when did he get rebuilt in the ‘final’ timeline then? We know he was together by Mechocracy.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

– If the events of the episode were erased from time, what’s to stop them from repeating the Holly mishap, but without a white hole around to save them? Given that Lister references playing pool with planets later, maybe Kryten was wrong, and they actually do remember on some level.

– The events of the episode are undone, including Talkie being rebuilt. So when did he get rebuilt in the ‘final’ timeline then? We know he was together by Mechocracy.

      

[Flap Jack]

Haha, very good!

I’m trying to think if Lister ever got more suitably smarmy than he is in Stasis Leak, but I’m coming up empty.

[Warbodog]

On my non-linear journey through the series, White Hole was the main stand-out from the first four years and probably my pre-V favourite before I reconsidered things in the big DVD rewatch (that this rewatch is like a 20th anniversary of).

Watching today, I keep that first experience in mind when revisiting a deliberately repetitive episode again again. It was low on laughs as a result (outside of “there are nooooo sooounds to hear”), but for drama, atmosphere and strange sci-fi, still definitely in the top 6-10 range.

– As Black Hole, this story was originally linked with Marooned in the novel, so came out of that thought process. The ship losing power is another basic, classic survival scenario (that they’d return to) and it expands on Rimmer’s twisted concepts of honour and sacrifice from that episode.

– There’s less time for character insights generally though, as it also incorporates time-warping shenanigans, most reminiscent of Future Echoes.

– ‘So what is it?’ vs ‘How did I do what?’: both iconically choreographed scenes, but Future Echoes probably wins for the catch-up.

– Interesting that in wanting to retain the toaster’s presence from the book version, they make him more relevant to events in a completely different way.

– The busy engineering/industrial sci-fi sets  have dated as adorably as the plainer old sets, really. The massive chains (massive, massive chains) can maybe be excused as mining equipment, but that coiled tubing always makes me think of a dairy farm.

– Holly’s senility has never really been consistent, but it’s believably an ongoing concern for the plot. That dubbed remark about an ion storm is an unnecessary concession to pedants like us (I didn’t even really notice the line for decades).

– I admit, Cat noticed that Rimmer was still active before I’d thought about it.

– Lister realising how dependent they are on technology/electricity is the practical takeaway from the episode, it’s come to mind often over the years.

– Five days to get to and from the cargo decks is brilliantly evocative, but why did Rimmer even tag along?

– Those spinning, textured planets in the simulation are CGI, right? Is that the earliest example in the series?

– Lister’s a genuine hero, though I like that there’s ambiguity as to whether it really was just a fluke and Holly’s plan could have worked just fine with less collateral damage.

– Another weak or questionable ending for this run. We could share more in Kryten’s relief if we’d actually seen some of their cargo deck expedition or something.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

– Interesting that in wanting to retain the toaster’s presence from the book version, they make him more relevant to events in a completely different way.

And then promptly forget he existed for the rest of the episode.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I was speaking to a user named Terka on Discord about this exact point (namely, the boys remembering the events of White Hole), and Terka’s theory is that most of the events of  White Hole still happened, except this time they retained enough residual memory of the events of the episode to correct the calculation error that increased Holly’s IQ and reduced her runtime. However,  in doing so they also undershot their target by a fair margin.

He also reckons the planet pool in this timeline was just Lister getting drunk and showing off.

[Rudolph]

Five days to get to and from the cargo decks is brilliantly evocative, but why did Rimmer even tag along?

It’s always something I’ve wondered. It takes them the best part of a week to get down to the cargo decks and back, so they send Kryten and a man who can’t touch or carry anything. If Cat or Lister had gone in Rimmer’s place, then they’d have been able to carry more supplies back.

I guess it means that they’d have to cut the scene with the exercise bike and the hairdryer, as obviously Rimmer has no need for food or warmth.

[International Debris]

Lister and Cat would have also required sleep, food and water, massively extending the time of the journey. Kryten is much more efficient. Rimmer… well, it’s possible he wanted to do something to feel useful, maybe Lister and Cat persuaded him because they were feeling shit enough as it is and didn’t want him sitting around doing nothing. Frankly, Rimmer’s presence on any kind of ‘mission’, pre-Legion, is questionable.

[Warbodog]

Given that Lister references playing pool with planets later, maybe Kryten was wrong, and they actually do remember on some level.

I’m happy with “Kryten was wrong” and they’re still able to override causality by concentrating, which he was right about earlier on.

They were physically reset, but remembered it all (except Holly, who was the only one shown to be mentally reset in that final scene) (and maybe Cat, who was more prone to getting stuck in the loop earlier).

Demons and Angels’ continuity error makes White Hole’s ending better.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

it’s possible he wanted to do something to feel useful,

Rimmer would have insisted on going to ensure he job was done correctly.

[Stilianides]

Not too happy about Rimmer’s Eskimo racism. Unless that little factoid of his about Eskimos sacrificing their elderly is true, but I’m guessing that it isn’t. 

Yes, it’s true.

[Flap Jack]

Rimmer went on holiday to the diesel decks in Justice. Maybe he went on holiday to the cargo decks too at one point, and felt he had invaluable knowledge of them.

But in general I agree that the logistics of keeping Lister (because let’s face it, Cat would not jump at the opportunity to work) fed, watered, toileted and rested along the way would slow them down enough that it would more or less eliminate the advantage of the extra supplies Lister could carry – especially when you consider that Kryten is probably a lot stronger and faster than Lister.

[Flap Jack]

Yes, it’s true.

OK, I decided to put in the bare minimum effort and actually google this. If I can trust the internet (which of course I can), then it is true that it happened, but it’s not true that it was a standard practice. Some Eskimos killed old people in the distant past when times got especially desperate, but Rimmer was basically saying that all Eskimos live in Logan’s Run.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

all Eskimos live in Logan’s Run.

I’ll buy those movie rights.

[Stilianides]

Yes, it’s true.

OK, I decided to put in the bare minimum effort and actually google this. If I can trust the internet (which of course I can), then it is true that it happened, but it’s not true that it was a standard practice. Some Eskimos killed old people in the distant past when times got especially desperate, but Rimmer was basically saying that all Eskimos live in Logan’s Run.

Well, he very clearly talks in the past tense and (even taking into account the show being set in the future) I doubt anyone thought that it was a reference to the 1990s. 

It’s more a joke at the expense of Eastbourne, anyhow.

[Flap Jack]

Well, he very clearly talks in the past tense and (even taking into
account the show being set in the future) I doubt anyone thought that it
was a reference to the 1990s.

Well, it’s not just that it only happened in the past, it’s that when it did happen it wasn’t ideological or a common practice. So while it’s perfectly in character for Rimmer to think it, it is still a racist stereotype.

After all, if a society sacrifices 11 old people in a century, one would hardly say that society constantly sacrifices old people. No, it would be a rare, nay, freak occurrence.

[Stabbim]

Holly becomes less and less of a factor as Kryten takes over the exposition role over time, so it’s nice that White Hole was about Holly (also, the one and only time Holly calls Rimmer a Smeghead)

Adore the Bondian “Take My Breath Away” knockoff, it’s by far the superior Ace Rimmer theme.

Noel Coward’s reaction to being shot just always gets me.  I don’t know why.

Yeah, this is a strong Best Byte contender to be sure.

[Warbodog]

Dimension Jump

One of my favourites to rewatch. Thanks for the Memory’s ascent has pushed it down a notch, but still a top 5. A neat presentation of a thought-provoking concept that you can apply to your own life, and I just really like the small-scale ensemble disaster story. Marooned with more going on.

– Simon Gaffney as Young Rimmer is a delight.

– They explain what’s going on without being patronising – then it turns out not to have been quite as straightforward as YOU and Rimmer thought.

– Bongo works better as a human Kryten callback after DNA than if this had come earlier. You’ve already got it out of your system, so you’re not distracted thinking “is that… yeah, it is. Weird!”

– Lister in previous series wouldn’t have tried to spare Rimmer’s feelings. Character development rather than inconsistency.

– Rimmer’s geeky interests seem to come out of nowhere in this series, but he’s finding ways to enjoy his forced retirement.

– This feels like the right balance of Holly these days, getting the fishing trip punchline, purple alert confusion and the skewed angle / furry dice bit. I can take or leave the swooning.

– Nice that the universe considers holograms a valid life form, as the Justice computer did.

– Holograms in Ace’s dimension don’t have the H.

– What was Kryten going to point out about Ace vs. Rimmer’s sexuality?

– I never considered this one a bad ending. Ace is so cool that pranks don’t work on him, luck virus type mechanics.

– That’s not even a Hammond organ at the end, it’s fairground music. Is this like Blackadder II turnip confusion?

– Apocrypha: The Primordial Soup script dates Rimmer’s childhood scene to 2162 (it didn’t end up having captions like the Ace scene) and gives his age as seven, so it’s roughly in line with the novel timeline (but uses Lister’s birth date for Rimmer, when he should be older). I guess they decided on 23rd century in DNA (temporarily) because it sounded better than 22nd.

– Look out for that stray frame of Starbug at the end of the model shot when Ace arrives:

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Well, he very clearly talks in the past tense and (even taking into
account the show being set in the future) I doubt anyone thought that it
was a reference to the 1990s.

Well, it’s not just that it only happened in the past, it’s that when it did happen it wasn’t ideological or a common practice. So while it’s perfectly in character for Rimmer to think it, it is still a racist stereotype.
After all, if a society sacrifices 11 old people in a century, one would hardly say that society constantly sacrifices old people. No, it would be a rare, nay, freak occurrence.

It was obvious common practise enough for it to be recorded as something that they did for it to be more than just a couple of Eskimos killed their elderly parents once. 

[Unrumble]

So, White, is it? 

– this is both the right and wrong place to mention this, but the rehash of Lister’s bread-product rant in Mechocracy was definitely a low point, rather than the nostalgic victory lap they were going for.

– Love Roberts inflection on “ANY member of the crew”

– doing all the laundry and watching TV, sounds like a good night to me.

– I think the “let’s hope you don’t get an overload” bit is another clip I remember from the A-Z, before I’d actually seen the ep.

– another delivery I love: “no I would not like a crumpet!” Hattie totally seizes the moment in this scene. Shame it didn’t inspire them to give her more to do.

– as others have already said, “no sounds to hear” is a great scene, and I think the little looks/nods they all give Kryten, just before cutting to battering the door down with his flat-top, are nice touches.

– another fantastic scene (never done a ranking per se, but this would be a top 5 ep for me). The Captain Oates exchange is brilliant, and Cat’s “no, I’d sacrifice your life for the good of the crew” elicits a guffaw every time.

– would they have had instant mash in 1912?

– “Stan & Ollie”. Another take that just seems wrong when it goes right, with the smeg-up being seared on my brain.

– “Paul Robeson on dope”. A reference I didn’t get for a long time, until more regular Internet access led me to look him up one idle day.

– “so what is it?” starts repeating again after Holly gives them the computer slug, fading out over a shot of the white hole. Wonder how long they spent stuck in that moment? 

– Cat’s ‘gerbil-face’ bit at the end of the voting scene is masterfully delivered. 

– I suggested ‘Mish’ as a band name when I was a teenager. None of my band mates got the reference. It didn’t get picked, surprisingly. 

– one of the most interesting parts of the novel for me, the way the planet-potting plays out over several hours instead of 60 seconds. Presumably a more realistic depiction (of a sci-fi premise, I know), but obviously needed to be condensed for timing & comedy purposes on screen.

[Warbodog]

– “Stan & Ollie”. Another take that just seems wrong when it goes right, with the smeg-up being seared on my brain.

I’d seen the episode before, but didn’t own it when I found the Smeg-Ups video cheap early on. I had the idea that Stan & Ollie were a pair of Skutters.

I was also confused by the smeg-up around “reducing his operational lifespan” (Toaster’s), wondering why Kryten was using the male pronoun for Holly and whether that was how she was always referred to, because she was originally male (imagine!)

[Flap Jack]

It was obvious common practise enough for it to be recorded as something
that they did for it to be more than just a couple of Eskimos killed
their elderly parents once.

Common enough to be recorded, sure, but not common enough to be “that’s just what Eskimos do with their elderly”. I’m just distinguishing between a belief being based on a truth and it being literally true.

[Stilianides]

It was obvious common practise enough for it to be recorded as something
that they did for it to be more than just a couple of Eskimos killed
their elderly parents once.

Common enough to be recorded, sure, but not common enough to be “that’s just what Eskimos do with their elderly”. I’m just distinguishing between a belief being based on a truth and it being literally true.

Rimmer doesn’t suggest that every single Eskimo did it and, more to the point, he positively celebrates it. If Rimmer was guilty of anything, it was positive discrimination! :)

[Flap Jack]

Rimmer doesn’t suggest that every single Eskimo did it and, more to the point, he positively celebrates it.

I mean, he pretty much does though?

Why yes, I do regret ever mentioning this.

[Stilianides]

I mean, he pretty much does though?

Why yes, I do regret ever mentioning this.

No, he suggests it was a part of Eskimo culture. Which it was. I presume that Rob or Doug had read about the custom and thought it would be interesting to mention it in the show, with the comedy twist of Rimmer fully supporting it. 

Anyhow, to mention something else White Hole related… One of the suggested changes for the Series IV remastered (before it was cancelled) was to have Talkie Toaster sing the closing theme which is quite a fun idea. Something that they could have done when he reappeared years later.

[Stilianides]

Dimension Jump

A classic episode and its impact has only been ever so slightly diminished by Ace Rimmer’s occasional reappearances.

The alternate versions of the characters generally work very well with Bongo arguably the most memorable.

Also love Rimmer’s upbeat attempts to get the others involved with listening to Reggie Wilson or singing Kumbaya.

[Dave]

Why yes, I do regret ever mentioning this.

Isn’t the word Eskimo inherently problematic anyway?

Regardless, I think it’s all perfectly in-character for Rimmer to say this stuff, even if it is a misapprehension that he picked up somewhere without realising it doesn’t hold any water.

[International Debris]

It’s one of those urban legend type things that I’ve come across people mentioning elsewhere, it’s absolutely up Rimmer’s street to believe and repeat it. It still feels a little uncomfortable. 

[Dave]

It’s one of those urban legend type things that I’ve come across people mentioning elsewhere, it’s absolutely up Rimmer’s street to believe and repeat it. It still feels a little uncomfortable. 

It’s similar to the comments about wheelchair ramps in Cured I guess. An in-character thing to say but the sentiment is still a bit jarring.

[Unrumble]

What was Kryten going to point out about Ace vs. Rimmer’s sexuality?

Probably something progressive, that they had no way to discern Ace’s sexual preference based on his appearance/attitude/dress-sense etc., and that Rimmer was being outrageously prejudiced based on ridiculous and outdated stereotypes.

That’s not it, is it.

[Ian Symes]

 all Eskimos live in Logan’s Run.

– That would be terrible.
– I know, Eskimos look like twats in jumpsuits.
– Don’t say that, Tim, that’s a word that hates Inuit people.
– What, “Eskimo”?
– No, jumpsuit.

This would be better if someone had made a Spaced equivalent of the Smega-Drive.

[Flap Jack]

No, he suggests it was a part of Eskimo culture. Which it was.

I mean Kryten directly asks him if ritual sacrifice was just how they cared for old people, and he replies “Absolutely”, not “Well, not usually. Usually they’d just actually care for them, but when conditions were especially rough or supplies were especially scarce it was known to happen.” It’s pretty clear that Rimmer is making a sweeping statement about what happens to old people in their society.

Isn’t the word Eskimo inherently problematic anyway?

Ah, possibly. I recalled the discourse being that “Inuit” was more politically correct, but then there was like a counter movement saying that was actually worse due to being overly specific. Happy to be corrected on that.

Regardless, I think it’s all perfectly in-character for Rimmer to say this stuff, even if it is a misapprehension that he picked up somewhere without realising it doesn’t hold any water.

It’s one of those urban legend type things that I’ve come across people mentioning elsewhere, it’s absolutely up Rimmer’s street to believe and repeat it. It still feels a little uncomfortable. 

Right, exactly. I wasn’t trying to say it was out of character for Rimmer or that it was implausible he would pick up on the stereotype. That’s all good. It’s just unavoidably a bit weird to hear a gag premised on how primitive or savage an ethnic group is, even with the context.

[Stilianides]

I mean Kryten directly asks him if ritual sacrifice was just how they cared for old people, and he replies “Absolutely”, not “Well, not usually. Usually they’d just actually care for them, but when conditions were especially rough or supplies were especially scarce it was known to happen.” It’s pretty clear that Rimmer is making a sweeping statement about what happens to old people in their society. 

Well, we will have to agree to disagree, but again I don’t agree with you using the present tense here as it was absolutely clear that Rimmer was making a generalization about what happened in the distant past.
And that, to me, is absolutely crucial. The context would be completely different if Rob and Doug were talking about the present day.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It was obvious common practise enough for it to be recorded as something
that they did for it to be more than just a couple of Eskimos killed
their elderly parents once.

Common enough to be recorded, sure, but not common enough to be “that’s just what Eskimos do with their elderly”. I’m just distinguishing between a belief being based on a truth and it being literally true.

Oh I get it. Presumably in Rimmer’s future all that survives of Eskimo culture is this footnote in the history books. 

[Flap Jack]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree, but again I don’t agree with you using the present tense here as it was absolutely clear that Rimmer was making a generalization about what happened in the distant past.

OK, but as I’ve already said, whether he’s talking about the distant past or not (relative to either 3 million years in the future, 200 years in the future, or the 1990s) isn’t really relevant, because it was never true. Regardless of the time period he’s talking about, he’s still inherently saying that Eskimo society stood out from other contemporary societies for that reason.

[Author]

Posts