The Blu-ray Awakens

[thomasaevans]

Amazon and Zavvi have listings for THOSE Series 1-5 blu-rays down as being released in February 26th 2018.

Is this actually now happening for the 30th?

[GlenTokyo]

Intriguing…

Doug said the quality wasn’t there a few months ago so it got canned, bluffing?

Here’s the info page from blu-ray dot com

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Red-Dwarf-Series-1-Blu-ray/157922/#Overview

I’d happily buy them on blu-ray, they have value to me if they have the model footage scanned in full HD, a re-edit would be nice to include them but that’s an ask, and if they have everything on one disc.

Any updated “tour of the ship” menus and any new material is a bonus (Rob and Doug commentaries for some episodes? Rob, Ed and Doug?)

Cautiously excited, just because it’s the 30th.

[JamesTC]

They’ve been down as that date for a while now so don’t put too much stock in it being that date.

That being said the Blu-Ray releases are back on. Doug tweeted in a reply on the 12th of November: “They’re increased the budget and are trying to convince me the uprezing will look much better this time. They’re also throwing in a colour grade something they wouldn’t agree to first time around.”

[Ben Saunders]

>a colour grade
awooga. awooga.

[bloodteller]

is that a bad thing?

[Ben Saunders]

It depends, really – it could be fantastic or it could be dreadful. A generic colour grade pasted all over the show could give you Star Wars Special Edition/Red Dwarf Remastered tier issues, but one with any decent amount of effort put into it could end up working well.

But I do think a grade should be avoided and the programs should be presented as made, just upscaled, because I’m a purist like that. Perhaps there will be room for graded and non-graded versions. I’m aware that even just upscaling might be considered artifice, but that’s as far as I think they should go. I don’t want a Remastered 2.

[GlenTokyo]

The grade was one of the better things about remastered to me. If they just did that and didn’t change the aspect to 14:9 and filmise it, visually it would have been worth it I think.

It was never intended to look shit, anything to remedy that is in fact making it more definitive in my opinion, as it will be closer to resembling the vision of the people that made it and how it actually looked live.

Good to know it’s back on though. I expect a couple will release in February and then every few months from there or something.

[Ben Saunders]

>It was never intended to look shit, anything to remedy that is in fact making it more definitive in my opinion, as it will be closer to resembling the vision of the people that made it and how it actually looked live.
Interesting opinion, as I believe the actual, final product, is the “definitive”, and that intent doesn’t really factor in as much. Tommy Wiseau -intended- to make a masterpiece. He didn’t.

But I also view things as historical documents as well as shows or whatever. Also when going down the road of bringing things closer to original visions, you run the risk of Lucasing your creation.

[GlenTokyo]

By vision I only mean how it looked when performed, overcoming the limitations of the format is not even a remaster really, it’s the same thing but clearer. Like a lossless audio format, or a rescan for Blu-ray of an old film. They’re not adding or removing anything content wise, they’re just allowing you to see it more clearly.

It would have been graded if such things existed at the time, as one inch tape was wank.

The videos were replaced by something with better picture quality and were gratefully accepted

[GlenTokyo]

It’ll still have all the same issues, like the comet tails or whatever they’re called, it’ll just be less grey, and if you like it grey, DVD and VHS have you covered.

[Katydid]

The color grade will either make it look basically fine, or absolutely horrific. Unfortunately the latter is the standard nowadays.

[Warbodog]

Hopefully Doug will give it a blue rinse to match the blue look of XI & XII that wasn’t possible with the technology in 1988. Like how Blade Runner is blue now, for some reason.

[Katydid]

I think they should hire Chris Veale to recreate Series I in CGI.

[flanl3]

I think they should hire Series I to recreate Chris Veale in CGI.

[thomasaevans]

Adding to the suggestion that this really may be happening…

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Doctor-Tom-Baker-1st-Season-Blu/23925

[si]

Adding to the suggestion that this really may be happening…
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Doctor-Tom-Baker-1st-Season-Blu/23925

*follows link*

We looked at the BBC Shop online store to try to confirm, and have continued to look back there many times since, and have never yet seen a listing for such a title…

Well, they wouldn’t, would they?

[International Debris]

That page’s use of quotation marks made me feel ill.

[Katydid]

I would actually consider buying Red Dwarf on Blu-Ray, but only because I’ve managed to lose disc 1 for Series I and V.

If they crop it into 16:9, I’m going to set myself on fire outside GNP.

[Ben Paddon]

If they crop it into 16:9, I’m going to set myself on fire outside GNP.

I can’t imagine they will – “Shada” and “Spearhead From Space” didn’t get cropped.

[GlenTokyo]

I can’t imagine they will – “Shada” and “Spearhead From Space” didn’t get cropped.

Doug saying it was for the Japanese audience again on Twitter has made me think it’s going to get cropped to 14:9 like Remastered.

[bloodteller]

are the japanese really into 14:9 or something?

[Mr-Stabby]

The Tom Baker Doctor Who Bluray would actually have *some* benefit, as with the ‘Shada’ release, they have clearly rescanned the film elements of the show, and although the 16mm stock at the time wasn’t great, it still is a noticeable quality difference. So if they did that, then sure! Though I seem to remember, Tom’s first episode was a rare all-VT episode.

I’m going to buy Series 1 Red Dwarf Bluray anyway, because i’m a nerd and i like to compare things. But hell if they rescanned all the model shots, i’d buy them all. But i doubt they’ll do that, if they even still exist at all.

[GlenTokyo]

are the japanese really into 14:9 or something?

I think maybe they like full screen content, which is why 14:9 was chosen for remastered, halfway between 4:3 and 16:9.

Dunno though, I’m not an expert in Japanese TV viewing habits, maybe they don’t care now the novelty of widescreen has worn off.

[Dax101]

It doesn’t seem like the BBC (including worldwide) even put that much money into the DVDs anymore

[Jawscvmcdia]

Does Chris Veale even do CGI anymore?

[GlenTokyo]

Does Chris Veale even do CGI anymore?

I wondered the same recently, had a look on his IMDB and searched for him on Google. The last thing I could see Dwarf wise was a graphic design credit, he doesn’t seem to have a portfolio site or anything which is odd for someone in his line of work, and he obviously had talent considering the limitations and what he produced so it’d be strange if he didn’t do it anymore.

[Lily]

He does have a website but … well. http://cvcg.co.uk/

[GlenTokyo]

He does have a website but … well. http://cvcg.co.uk/

Oof. That robot policeman.

I assume that he just no longer works for himself, I’ll have to keep an eye on the crew credits for some films and TV with British FX houses.

[thomasaevans]

Aussi…

[JamesTC]

The Blu-Ray now looks like it is going full speed ahead but with a slight difference. Now rather than individual releases it is all 8 series. Currently listed as 16 discs and out October according to Amazon and Zoom.

Get your pre-order in with Zoom now as it is currently listed as £40 (and you can use SIGNUP10 to get 10% off) and that seems like a misprice. They might not honour it but I think they have honoured misprices in the past.

[Flap Jack]

Well this is certainly not something I expected to ever happen…

Will there be any new special features, I wonder? (Or features imported from Bodysnatcher?) I’m assuming it won’t be a “Just The Shows”-style release, given that it’s 16 discs.

Maybe some new, less lengthy menu transitions?

Will Series I-III controversially be the Remastered versions? (“Well, they’re already film-look, so they’re obviously more suited to HD!” – Ed Bye or somebody.)

If nothing else, this is great news for people who were disappointed they couldn’t marathon Series 8 without disc swapping. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Unless this doesn’t actually happen, which is still likely.

[Dave]

It’s certainly looking more like a realistic prospect now, especially after those comments from Doug about a new colour grading.

I’ll put an order in with Zoom for the time being – £36 is about right I think, depending on what extras/improvements it offers over the existing sets.

[Dax101]

If there were new extras id think the price would go up, but 8 series (16 discs) for £40 seems fairly cheap

[(deleted)]

If they are true restorations, presented 50i and replicate all previous bonus material, then I’m in. But that’s a lot of ifs.

Particularly like the idea of a copy of VI that’s not completely screwed up by having massive blanking lines all over it, tracking faults and audio dropouts galore.

[Dax101]

To much to hope for a rob grant, Ed bye and Doug Naylor commentary for every episode to go with it? Probably :(

[Flap Jack]

Nowadays, just one new commentary by Doug alone would be quite the treat. Even if it was for Krytie TV.

[GlenTokyo]

I’m in. Any improvement to some of the DVDs very poor picture quality is worth it, seems that there’ll still be a “bonus features” disc for each and a series and it’s extras won’t all be on the one disc which is a shame for lazy people like me but still, can’t complain.

The updated placeholder cover art looks standard for current Dwarf production which means they’ll have sent it over to online stores which suggests they’re right behind it, so that bodes well. Hopefully we’ll get a few new extras, even if it’s just a picture in picture track where excerpts from the documentaries play as you reach specific moments of the show.

A few Doug comms would be nice though, and any rescanned model footage.

[Dax101]

I am interested to see how the image quality comes through with Blu-ray.

I know with the remastered people felt i looked abit too clean but honestly i think for Blu-ray it would be worth a slight clean up.

Just none of that other remastered crap

[Ben Saunders]

Rob commentaries but only on episodes he didn’t write

[Dax101]

Rob Commentary for Krytie TV

Possibly drunken.

[GlenTokyo]

I always think that the two things about remastered that were worth doing are the grade and the audio (not the shite sound effects and library music mind).

People say “but it’s not how it looked when broadcast” but I say “it’s what it looked like when it was filmed” because it wasn’t meant to be washed out, it’s just a limitation of the format and a consequence of how they used it.

[Dave]

and any rescanned model footage

This is probably the thing I am most hopeful for.

[Ben Saunders]

As long as the original is available in high quality they can do whatever they like for a remastered version, in my opinion. All the Doctor Who DVDs with updated CGI effects for example always carry the unedited versions as well, and I choose to watch them unedited, at least for my first viewing, to enjoy the program as it was when it aired. The updated versions are a curiosity for me, but the definitive versions for others, and that’s fine.

[Flap Jack]

If there are any new special features at all, then they’ll likely just be some token additions rather than substantial ones (a featurette marking the 30th anniversary, perhaps?), BUT if we’re talking wish lists…

– All of the special features from The Bodysnatcher Collection (excluding Re-Dwarf and the Remastered episodes themselves).
– Full versions of both American pilots.
– All of the links and other unreleased original content from Red Dwarf Night (Universe Challenge being the main thing here).
– New Writer/Director commentaries on as many episodes as humanly possible.
– Smeg Ups/Smeg Outs in their originally edited form (all Kryten links preserved).
– Weblink.
– Unabridged audiobook of ‘The Log: A Dwarfer’s Guide to Everything’, read by Stephen Fry.
– Holly digitally recast with Hattie Hayridge in Series 1 and 2 (and Hilly recast with Rebecca Blackstone).

[Ben Paddon]

I’ll be happy with the retrospectives for each series, the smeg-ups and the deleted scenes. Maybe the model shots as well if they can get HD scans. If I want anything else I’ve got the DVDs, though, so no great loss if they don’t get included.

I have doubts as to whether or not the old features will find their way into this release – special features have somewhat fallen out of vogue, alas – but it might not be expensive to bung ’em on in SD. Torchwood series 1-3 included Torchwood Declassified in SD, and the Doctor Who series 2 and 4 Bluray sets include those Children in Need mini-episodes in SD too, so the Bluray Consortium seems to be more forgiving of SD content if it’s not the main feature.

[GlenTokyo]

I think at the very least they’ll have the majority of the DVD features. Maybe not the pop song montage features due to licensing but that’s no real loss.

An upscale would probably work a little better on the docs too, since it’s a bit of a cleaner source, might also be able to crop out some blue screen problems if they’re upscaling it.

[International Debris]

To much to hope for a rob grant, Ed bye and Doug Naylor commentary for every episode to go with it?

I’d actually buy a BluRay player for this.

[Mr-Stabby]

The preorder price for Series 1 Bluray is now £16.66 on my Amazon order history.

[NoFro]

I think I’ll wait for reviews in this case… or for TOS to provide some nice comparison images.

Does anyone have a good example of an SD show looking notably better on Blu?

[JamesTC]

I was impressed with the studio sections of Shada look superb on the recent Blu-Ray release. Stand well alongside the HD location footage and animation.

It all depends if they do it right. Get the frame rate correct and do some colour correction and grading and then it will be the best Red Dwarf will ever look and a well worth purchase for us fans who watch these episodes so much. The frame rate is where I am anticipating the major fuck up. Doctor Who Series 1-4 came out 4% slower because of the frame rate issue. That was initially made for America though so hopefully this initially being for the UK market will mean it doesn’t happen here.

[Ben Saunders]

I noticed once when I tried to watch Chuck on British television it was slightly too fast, and I think slightly too high-pitched as well. It was really uncomfortable since I knew what it was supposed to look/sound/feel like and it didn’t quite match. I wonder if other American shows are similarly affected, and I just don’t know because I’ve never seen the original, correct-speed versions.

[GlenTokyo]

American TV is 30/60hz, UK is 25/50, so if you play back American TV and don’t notice this it’ll be a bit faster and higher pitched. Mainly it’s lesser viewed channels that don’t notice this and broadcast it without correcting it.

Used to have the same issue playing Sonic on my megadrive, used to have an option to change to 50Hz mode.

I expect this will all be properly announced on the anniversary and we’ll

[GlenTokyo]

Get a nice preview on the TOS

[flanl3]

They did it the other way around on the American X DVD.

[Hamish]

> They did it the other way around on the American X DVD.

So I am not going mad…

[Katydid]

I _thought_ the show’s theme music sounded weirdly low pitched.

[flanl3]

Everything feels just a mild bit dreadful at the slowed pace.

[JamesTC]

>Everything feels just a mild bit dreadful at the slowed pace.

If you are watching Dear Dave, it is supposed to be like that.

[flanl3]

As I also own X on Amazon and have watched clips from it online and on BritBox, I can entirely verify that it is much more dreadful at the slightly slower rate.

[GlenTokyo]

Can’t you just switch modes on your TV or something? Flat panel TVs made anytime in the last 10 years or so will almost certainly have 24/25/30/50/60Hz panels, because they do films and all regions the manufacturer ships too. A pal/NTSC option maybe?

[flanl3]

I don’t think my TV does that, and even if it did, it’s important to note that playing it on the original proper rate would also not be right, as the slowdown is minor because the correction was made but it wasn’t enough. It’s a slowdown that by the end adds maybe ten or twenty seconds at most, not six minutes.

[GlenTokyo]

Wonder if you can play stuff back 0.7% faster on VLC media player… That might be the only way.

I think VLC will play any region actually so importing might also work.

Or a region free Blu-ray/DVD player if you don’t want to use a PC.

Who releases the US ones? Is it still Warner Brothers? Have they ever addressed it?

[Flap Jack]

Reminds me of how films run faster on UK DVDs than in the cinema, due to the difference in frame rate.

I only realised this a few years ago, and it’s like learning the Easter Bunny doesn’t exist.

[(deleted)]

It’s the main reason I got into Bluray.

Saying that, there are some US shows I literally cannot watch in their native format, only the PAL speedups are ‘right’ to me. The Simpsons is a big one.

[PFML84]

I hope if they do include smeg-ups they release them unedited. It was a nice surprise to see an unedited copy (albeit shockingly bad picture quality wise) on YouTube where everyone’s effing and blinding and a lot of the smeg-ups we got on the VHS tapes were just trimmed a little to remove the F word or we had ‘shit’ beeped despite the tape being rated as a 15. Let us hear the swears! Release a proper 15 rated set!

[Ben Paddon]

The X Bluray is a little slower, which is fucking dreadful. XI was a little better but suffered from being reencoded in, I think, 1080p. I ended up re-purchasing the XI set from Amazon UK and giving my US set to a friend.

The BTE set used frame blending, which is a crime.

[Hamish]

> I think VLC will play any region actually so importing might also work.

Using libdvdcss it will, yes.

It always amuses me when I see Windows users installing VLC with no idea how illegal using that particular library is, so much so that most Linux distributions refuse to package it and make their users have to fetch it independantly when installing VLC.

At least we know what we are getting in to.

[Ben Paddon]

Weird, I don’t use libdvdcss and VLC has always, from default installation, played DVDs from multiple regions.

[GlenTokyo]

Mine too. Play region 1 regularly on my region 2 drive, I’ve not done anything other than install VLC

[Hamish]

The libdvdcss library is included with the Windows installer of VLC by default. Because the project is based in France they feel immune to any legal repercussions.

That does not change the fact that the end user is still violating copyright and patent law by using it in their own countries depending on the jurisdiction. Especially for someone like myself living in Canada as the mere act of breaking a digital lock is specific crime here.

It’s insane, but there you go.

[Flap Jack]

The libdvdcss library is included with the Windows installer of VLC by default. Because the project is based in France they feel immune to any legal repercussions.

That does not change the fact that the end user is still violating copyright and patent law by using it in their own countries depending on the jurisdiction. Especially for someone like myself living in Canada as the mere act of breaking a digital lock is specific crime here.

So essentially, it is totally legal for VideoLAN to distribute it (even if it isn’t legal for Linux to distribute it), and some countries’ copyright laws are written broadly enough to make using it ambiguously legal in theory but in practice never challenge anyone.

Yeah, I think it’s pretty much OK really. Not nearly as amusing as the hype suggests!

[Katydid]

The BTE set used frame blending, which is a crime.

I may be talking out of my ass, but wasn’t BtE back during first generation Blu-Rays, which were all interlaced because the first generation players weren’t powerful enough to do 1080 progressive?

[GlenTokyo]

BtE was 2009, Bluray players were widely available to the average person by 2007. I’ve got other blurays from 2007 that are 1080p too.

More likely that it’s 1080i because that’s what a lot of UK HD broadcasts used until pretty recently for whatever reason.

[(deleted)]

UK HD broadcasts are 720i. 50 fields. UK TV masters are all either delivered 1080i or converted to 1080i. TV broadcasting doesn’t support progressive scan in the same way that CDs don’t support monoaural sound – it’s a one-size-fits-all delivery method regardless of source.

All the Dave RD Blurays are 1080i because that’s what the masters are. Also they have interlaced elements like the end credits and the dodgy camera shakes in Trojan.

[GlenTokyo]

What about Sattelite? Like Sky Q? Comes up as 1080p or 3840*2160 on my TV, assume at 50p for sports.

[(deleted)]

That’s the actual picture output of the box. Transmissions are 720.

[GlenTokyo]

I mean 1080p and UHD broadcast is possible, as Sky Q does it, original programming and sports are in 4K, but obviously over the air standard aerial TV doesn’t.

Maybe the next one will be in 4K, Doug likes his new technology, 4K HDR could be his next extravagance.

[(deleted)]

That’s platform-specific streaming though, like Netflix and Prime do, although admittedly Sky Q’s live stuff is pretty clever. But still, all the HD transmissions for the UK are sending 50i images 720 pixels tall regardless of source.

[Ben Saunders]

So our TVs just upscale to 1080?

[GlenTokyo]

The font of all knowledge that is a random tech website I just found seems to disagree. BBC is now 1080p 25 or 1080i 50, even on freeview at up to 17Mbps bitrate.

Other HD channels seem to be the same.

[Ben Saunders]

I noticed iPlayer is 50fps now, I seriously doubt it’s 1080p though. Or just a shockingly low bit rate.

[GlenTokyo]

The website I was on says the average bitrate is 3mbps, so yeah, probably bitrate. I bet some of it is upscaled too. I doubt Antiques Road Trip and homes under the hammer are filmed full HD

[(deleted)]

The receivers upscale to 1080. iPlayer is also capped at 720 btw.

And whatever website said that about 1080p and 25 is wrong.

[GlenTokyo]

Got them from here. Can’t find anything else other than Wikipedia, which also says 1080

British TV Bitrates

[Ben Saunders]

My Dad is watching The Orville right now as I make a Pot Noodle, and either Seth MacFarlane hit puberty backwards and drinks helium for lunch, they’re playing it too fast/high pitched. I don’t know what channel it’s on. But it’s really noticeable, that’s not his voice. Unless he’s doing it deliberately which would be bizarre.

[(deleted)]

That link is wrong because SD transmission on digital has never been full height PAL either. I think whoever’s putting that info online is/are making a lot of assumptions about delivery methods based on format standards.

[neuro]

BBC have been broadcasting HD on Freeview and satellite at 1920×1080 since 2012. Most content is shot at 1080p also.

[Ben Paddon]

My Dad is watching The Orville right now as I make a Pot Noodle, and either Seth MacFarlane hit puberty backwards and drinks helium for lunch, they’re playing it too fast/high pitched. I don’t know what channel it’s on. But it’s really noticeable, that’s not his voice. Unless he’s doing it deliberately which would be bizarre.

I went from watching Battlestar Galactica on DVDs I’d borrowed from a friend to watching them on DVDs I bought while visiting family in the UK, and the NTSC-to-PAL conversion resulted in a very slight speedup that does in fact make certain people sound a little more chipmunky.

[PFML84]

So they sound a bit “chipmunk-y” or like Paul Robeson on dope, depending on where in the world you are?

[Katydid]

Is there any good reason why we can’t just show things in their original framerate at this point? The whole speeding up and slowing down is ridiculous, and the fact that they don’t even lock the audio pitch is downright pathetic.

Besides, if you’re altering from 25 to 24 fps, wouldn’t it make far more sense to just chop out the extra frame instead of screwing around with the speed? The loss of a single frame per second is a negligible difference.

But again, why not just use the goddamn original video?

[Ben Saunders]

Outdated transmission methods, maybe? Bear in mind I have no idea what I’m talking about. But there must be a reason for it otherwise they wouldn’t do it, surely. Maybe actually editing the files and re-rendering them at the correct speed/pitch is just slightly too much effort

[(deleted)]

I guarantee that if you ever saw the dropped frame example you give you’d change your mind – it’s nauseously unwatchable, and would not pass QC. There are only two options – respeeding or frame blending. Frame blending is still favoured for footage where the integrity of the source audio is prioritised – such as music releases and some film musicals.

PAL regions have quietly been NTSC compatible for a very long time, since the 90s at least, but NTSC regions have generally not extended the same courtesy in their TV specs. Certainly, Bluray has meant that commercial releases of anything in PAL regions are almost guaranteed to be true native, and bad standards conversion for disc releases is no longer our problem particularly.

As for the audio, the reason pitch correction is usually avoided is one of quality. Although timestretching and pitchshifting technology has massively improved over the years, it’s still wildly imperfect and imprecise, and when done to stereo and surround sources it often causes the channels to imperceptibly desynchronise and phase against each other, leaving sound that can resemble anything from a badly encoded MP3 to a psychedelic 1960s rock album. The processes work on estimation algorithms involving random factors – like an audio version of how artificial grain generation works on images – and you lose so much fidelity. Even someone not experienced in the field would notice it had gone ‘mushy’ sounding. This isn’t to say it’s never done for DVD/Bluray – it definitely is, but it sounds like absolute arse.

[Dave]

I was half-expecting an announcement on this today, to take advantage of the 30th anniversary publicity, but I haven’t seen anything yet. I hope we get something official soon.

[Dave]

Just checked Amazon and I see it has updated with a price of £49.99. In which case £36 from Zoom feels like a pretty good deal.

[Dave]

Oh, and this tweet from Doug made me consider the possibilities of doing more than just a straightforward colour grade:

What I wanted but we couldn’t afford it. #RedDwarf30 pic.twitter.com/xBXRiZdGOV

— Doug Naylor (@DougRDNaylor) February 15, 2018

[Katydid]

Actually I would love to see that, if for nothing else than the novelty.

[flanl3]

Right, because Series I needed to be grayer.

[Ben Saunders]

The sets are already in black and white so Rimmer would just blend into the background half the time

[Katydid]

I never said it was a good idea, I said it would be a fun novelty.

[Katydid]

I guarantee that if you ever saw the dropped frame example you give you’d change your mind – it’s nauseously unwatchable, and would not pass QC.

You’ll never hear more pedantry about framerates than from me, but how in the world would dropping from 25 to 24 frames per second be unwatchable? I can see how maybe somebody in PAL region used to 25 fps would be able to tell the difference, but we’re talking about converting PAL to NTSC. Anyone in an NTSC region has been watching things in 24 fps their entire life and likely never even seen a program in 25 fps. Most shows are now produced at 24 fps, and even 29.97 fps shows are knocked down to 24 when streamed online. That’s the most common framerate for NTSC.

How is 24 fps worse than fucking around with the pitch, because you can definitely notice that without being a pedant like me?

[Author]

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