Home › Forums › Ganymede & Titan Forum › The Blu-ray Awakens
This topic contains 138 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by cwickham 1 month, 1 week ago.
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January 10, 2018 at 2:28 am #226724
thomasaevansAmazon and Zavvi have listings for THOSE Series 1-5 blu-rays down as being released in February 26th 2018.
Is this actually now happening for the 30th?
January 10, 2018 at 2:58 am #226725
GlenTokyoIntriguing…
Doug said the quality wasn’t there a few months ago so it got canned, bluffing?
Here’s the info page from blu-ray dot com
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Red-Dwarf-Series-1-Blu-ray/157922/#Overview
I’d happily buy them on blu-ray, they have value to me if they have the model footage scanned in full HD, a re-edit would be nice to include them but that’s an ask, and if they have everything on one disc.
Any updated “tour of the ship” menus and any new material is a bonus (Rob and Doug commentaries for some episodes? Rob, Ed and Doug?)
Cautiously excited, just because it’s the 30th.
January 15, 2018 at 12:01 am #226821
SoundableObjectThey’ve been down as that date for a while now so don’t put too much stock in it being that date.
That being said the Blu-Ray releases are back on. Doug tweeted in a reply on the 12th of November: “They’re increased the budget and are trying to convince me the uprezing will look much better this time. They’re also throwing in a colour grade something they wouldn’t agree to first time around.”
January 15, 2018 at 12:40 am #226822
Ben Saunders>a colour grade
awooga. awooga.January 15, 2018 at 1:14 am #226823
bloodtelleris that a bad thing?
January 15, 2018 at 1:33 am #226824
Ben SaundersIt depends, really – it could be fantastic or it could be dreadful. A generic colour grade pasted all over the show could give you Star Wars Special Edition/Red Dwarf Remastered tier issues, but one with any decent amount of effort put into it could end up working well.
But I do think a grade should be avoided and the programs should be presented as made, just upscaled, because I’m a purist like that. Perhaps there will be room for graded and non-graded versions. I’m aware that even just upscaling might be considered artifice, but that’s as far as I think they should go. I don’t want a Remastered 2.
January 15, 2018 at 2:49 am #226825
GlenTokyoThe grade was one of the better things about remastered to me. If they just did that and didn’t change the aspect to 14:9 and filmise it, visually it would have been worth it I think.
It was never intended to look shit, anything to remedy that is in fact making it more definitive in my opinion, as it will be closer to resembling the vision of the people that made it and how it actually looked live.
Good to know it’s back on though. I expect a couple will release in February and then every few months from there or something.
January 15, 2018 at 4:01 am #226826
Ben Saunders>It was never intended to look shit, anything to remedy that is in fact making it more definitive in my opinion, as it will be closer to resembling the vision of the people that made it and how it actually looked live.
Interesting opinion, as I believe the actual, final product, is the “definitive”, and that intent doesn’t really factor in as much. Tommy Wiseau -intended- to make a masterpiece. He didn’t.But I also view things as historical documents as well as shows or whatever. Also when going down the road of bringing things closer to original visions, you run the risk of Lucasing your creation.
January 15, 2018 at 4:27 am #226827
GlenTokyoBy vision I only mean how it looked when performed, overcoming the limitations of the format is not even a remaster really, it’s the same thing but clearer. Like a lossless audio format, or a rescan for Blu-ray of an old film. They’re not adding or removing anything content wise, they’re just allowing you to see it more clearly.
It would have been graded if such things existed at the time, as one inch tape was wank.
The videos were replaced by something with better picture quality and were gratefully accepted
January 15, 2018 at 4:30 am #226828
GlenTokyoIt’ll still have all the same issues, like the comet tails or whatever they’re called, it’ll just be less grey, and if you like it grey, DVD and VHS have you covered.
January 15, 2018 at 7:08 pm #226848
KatydidThe color grade will either make it look basically fine, or absolutely horrific. Unfortunately the latter is the standard nowadays.
January 16, 2018 at 12:46 am #226865
WarbodogHopefully Doug will give it a blue rinse to match the blue look of XI & XII that wasn’t possible with the technology in 1988. Like how Blade Runner is blue now, for some reason.
January 16, 2018 at 3:23 am #226868
KatydidI think they should hire Chris Veale to recreate Series I in CGI.
January 16, 2018 at 5:31 am #226869
flanl3I think they should hire Series I to recreate Chris Veale in CGI.
January 16, 2018 at 10:29 am #226875
thomasaevansAdding to the suggestion that this really may be happening…
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Doctor-Tom-Baker-1st-Season-Blu/23925
January 16, 2018 at 11:58 am #226877
siAdding to the suggestion that this really may be happening…
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Doctor-Tom-Baker-1st-Season-Blu/23925*follows link*
We looked at the BBC Shop online store to try to confirm, and have continued to look back there many times since, and have never yet seen a listing for such a title…
Well, they wouldn’t, would they?
January 16, 2018 at 11:58 am #226878
International DebrisThat page’s use of quotation marks made me feel ill.
January 16, 2018 at 9:16 pm #226886
KatydidI would actually consider buying Red Dwarf on Blu-Ray, but only because I’ve managed to lose disc 1 for Series I and V.
If they crop it into 16:9, I’m going to set myself on fire outside GNP.
January 16, 2018 at 11:56 pm #226887
Ben PaddonIf they crop it into 16:9, I’m going to set myself on fire outside GNP.
I can’t imagine they will – “Shada” and “Spearhead From Space” didn’t get cropped.
January 17, 2018 at 5:30 am #226889
GlenTokyoI can’t imagine they will – “Shada” and “Spearhead From Space” didn’t get cropped.
Doug saying it was for the Japanese audience again on Twitter has made me think it’s going to get cropped to 14:9 like Remastered.
January 17, 2018 at 12:43 pm #226890
bloodtellerare the japanese really into 14:9 or something?
January 17, 2018 at 1:58 pm #226891
Mr-StabbyThe Tom Baker Doctor Who Bluray would actually have *some* benefit, as with the ‘Shada’ release, they have clearly rescanned the film elements of the show, and although the 16mm stock at the time wasn’t great, it still is a noticeable quality difference. So if they did that, then sure! Though I seem to remember, Tom’s first episode was a rare all-VT episode.
I’m going to buy Series 1 Red Dwarf Bluray anyway, because i’m a nerd and i like to compare things. But hell if they rescanned all the model shots, i’d buy them all. But i doubt they’ll do that, if they even still exist at all.
January 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm #226892
GlenTokyoare the japanese really into 14:9 or something?
I think maybe they like full screen content, which is why 14:9 was chosen for remastered, halfway between 4:3 and 16:9.
Dunno though, I’m not an expert in Japanese TV viewing habits, maybe they don’t care now the novelty of widescreen has worn off.
January 17, 2018 at 7:07 pm #226893
Dax101It doesn’t seem like the BBC (including worldwide) even put that much money into the DVDs anymore
January 17, 2018 at 8:56 pm #226894
JawscvmcdiaDoes Chris Veale even do CGI anymore?
January 17, 2018 at 10:30 pm #226895
GlenTokyoDoes Chris Veale even do CGI anymore?
I wondered the same recently, had a look on his IMDB and searched for him on Google. The last thing I could see Dwarf wise was a graphic design credit, he doesn’t seem to have a portfolio site or anything which is odd for someone in his line of work, and he obviously had talent considering the limitations and what he produced so it’d be strange if he didn’t do it anymore.
January 18, 2018 at 9:57 am #226896
LilyHe does have a website but … well. http://cvcg.co.uk/
January 18, 2018 at 8:52 pm #226899
GlenTokyoHe does have a website but … well. http://cvcg.co.uk/
Oof. That robot policeman.
I assume that he just no longer works for himself, I’ll have to keep an eye on the crew credits for some films and TV with British FX houses.
January 18, 2018 at 9:55 pm #226900February 4, 2018 at 12:12 pm #227200
SoundableObjectThe Blu-Ray now looks like it is going full speed ahead but with a slight difference. Now rather than individual releases it is all 8 series. Currently listed as 16 discs and out October according to Amazon and Zoom.
Get your pre-order in with Zoom now as it is currently listed as £40 (and you can use SIGNUP10 to get 10% off) and that seems like a misprice. They might not honour it but I think they have honoured misprices in the past.
February 4, 2018 at 12:32 pm #227201
Flap JackWell this is certainly not something I expected to ever happen…
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Dwarf-Boxset-BD-Blu-ray/dp/B079FLRGZR/
Will there be any new special features, I wonder? (Or features imported from Bodysnatcher?) I’m assuming it won’t be a “Just The Shows”-style release, given that it’s 16 discs.
Maybe some new, less lengthy menu transitions?
Will Series I-III controversially be the Remastered versions? (“Well, they’re already film-look, so they’re obviously more suited to HD!” – Ed Bye or somebody.)
If nothing else, this is great news for people who were disappointed they couldn’t marathon Series 8 without disc swapping. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Unless this doesn’t actually happen, which is still likely.
February 4, 2018 at 1:24 pm #227202
DaveIt’s certainly looking more like a realistic prospect now, especially after those comments from Doug about a new colour grading.
I’ll put an order in with Zoom for the time being – £36 is about right I think, depending on what extras/improvements it offers over the existing sets.
February 4, 2018 at 1:39 pm #227205
Dax101If there were new extras id think the price would go up, but 8 series (16 discs) for £40 seems fairly cheap
February 4, 2018 at 2:05 pm #227207
DarrellIf they are true restorations, presented 50i and replicate all previous bonus material, then I’m in. But that’s a lot of ifs.
Particularly like the idea of a copy of VI that’s not completely screwed up by having massive blanking lines all over it, tracking faults and audio dropouts galore.
February 4, 2018 at 2:12 pm #227208
Dax101To much to hope for a rob grant, Ed bye and Doug Naylor commentary for every episode to go with it? Probably :(
February 4, 2018 at 2:32 pm #227209
Flap JackNowadays, just one new commentary by Doug alone would be quite the treat. Even if it was for Krytie TV.
February 4, 2018 at 2:45 pm #227210
GlenTokyoI’m in. Any improvement to some of the DVDs very poor picture quality is worth it, seems that there’ll still be a “bonus features” disc for each and a series and it’s extras won’t all be on the one disc which is a shame for lazy people like me but still, can’t complain.
The updated placeholder cover art looks standard for current Dwarf production which means they’ll have sent it over to online stores which suggests they’re right behind it, so that bodes well. Hopefully we’ll get a few new extras, even if it’s just a picture in picture track where excerpts from the documentaries play as you reach specific moments of the show.
A few Doug comms would be nice though, and any rescanned model footage.
February 4, 2018 at 2:58 pm #227211
Dax101I am interested to see how the image quality comes through with Blu-ray.
I know with the remastered people felt i looked abit too clean but honestly i think for Blu-ray it would be worth a slight clean up.
Just none of that other remastered crap
February 4, 2018 at 3:06 pm #227212
Ben SaundersRob commentaries but only on episodes he didn’t write
February 4, 2018 at 3:51 pm #227216
Dax101Rob Commentary for Krytie TV
Possibly drunken.
February 4, 2018 at 4:03 pm #227217
GlenTokyoI always think that the two things about remastered that were worth doing are the grade and the audio (not the shite sound effects and library music mind).
People say “but it’s not how it looked when broadcast” but I say “it’s what it looked like when it was filmed” because it wasn’t meant to be washed out, it’s just a limitation of the format and a consequence of how they used it.
February 4, 2018 at 4:18 pm #227218
Daveand any rescanned model footage
This is probably the thing I am most hopeful for.
February 4, 2018 at 5:21 pm #227231
Ben SaundersAs long as the original is available in high quality they can do whatever they like for a remastered version, in my opinion. All the Doctor Who DVDs with updated CGI effects for example always carry the unedited versions as well, and I choose to watch them unedited, at least for my first viewing, to enjoy the program as it was when it aired. The updated versions are a curiosity for me, but the definitive versions for others, and that’s fine.
February 4, 2018 at 5:39 pm #227233
Flap JackIf there are any new special features at all, then they’ll likely just be some token additions rather than substantial ones (a featurette marking the 30th anniversary, perhaps?), BUT if we’re talking wish lists…
– All of the special features from The Bodysnatcher Collection (excluding Re-Dwarf and the Remastered episodes themselves).
– Full versions of both American pilots.
– All of the links and other unreleased original content from Red Dwarf Night (Universe Challenge being the main thing here).
– New Writer/Director commentaries on as many episodes as humanly possible.
– Smeg Ups/Smeg Outs in their originally edited form (all Kryten links preserved).
– Weblink.
– Unabridged audiobook of ‘The Log: A Dwarfer’s Guide to Everything’, read by Stephen Fry.
– Holly digitally recast with Hattie Hayridge in Series 1 and 2 (and Hilly recast with Rebecca Blackstone).February 5, 2018 at 10:21 am #227267
Ben PaddonI’ll be happy with the retrospectives for each series, the smeg-ups and the deleted scenes. Maybe the model shots as well if they can get HD scans. If I want anything else I’ve got the DVDs, though, so no great loss if they don’t get included.
I have doubts as to whether or not the old features will find their way into this release – special features have somewhat fallen out of vogue, alas – but it might not be expensive to bung ’em on in SD. Torchwood series 1-3 included Torchwood Declassified in SD, and the Doctor Who series 2 and 4 Bluray sets include those Children in Need mini-episodes in SD too, so the Bluray Consortium seems to be more forgiving of SD content if it’s not the main feature.
February 5, 2018 at 11:26 am #227271
GlenTokyoI think at the very least they’ll have the majority of the DVD features. Maybe not the pop song montage features due to licensing but that’s no real loss.
An upscale would probably work a little better on the docs too, since it’s a bit of a cleaner source, might also be able to crop out some blue screen problems if they’re upscaling it.
February 5, 2018 at 12:00 pm #227274
International DebrisTo much to hope for a rob grant, Ed bye and Doug Naylor commentary for every episode to go with it?
I’d actually buy a BluRay player for this.
February 5, 2018 at 5:40 pm #227301
Mr-StabbyThe preorder price for Series 1 Bluray is now £16.66 on my Amazon order history.
February 5, 2018 at 8:48 pm #227311
NoFroI think I’ll wait for reviews in this case… or for TOS to provide some nice comparison images.
Does anyone have a good example of an SD show looking notably better on Blu?
February 5, 2018 at 9:02 pm #227312
SoundableObjectI was impressed with the studio sections of Shada look superb on the recent Blu-Ray release. Stand well alongside the HD location footage and animation.
It all depends if they do it right. Get the frame rate correct and do some colour correction and grading and then it will be the best Red Dwarf will ever look and a well worth purchase for us fans who watch these episodes so much. The frame rate is where I am anticipating the major fuck up. Doctor Who Series 1-4 came out 4% slower because of the frame rate issue. That was initially made for America though so hopefully this initially being for the UK market will mean it doesn’t happen here.
February 5, 2018 at 10:23 pm #227316
Ben SaundersI noticed once when I tried to watch Chuck on British television it was slightly too fast, and I think slightly too high-pitched as well. It was really uncomfortable since I knew what it was supposed to look/sound/feel like and it didn’t quite match. I wonder if other American shows are similarly affected, and I just don’t know because I’ve never seen the original, correct-speed versions.
February 6, 2018 at 1:17 am #227320
GlenTokyoAmerican TV is 30/60hz, UK is 25/50, so if you play back American TV and don’t notice this it’ll be a bit faster and higher pitched. Mainly it’s lesser viewed channels that don’t notice this and broadcast it without correcting it.
Used to have the same issue playing Sonic on my megadrive, used to have an option to change to 50Hz mode.
I expect this will all be properly announced on the anniversary and we’ll
February 6, 2018 at 1:17 am #227321
GlenTokyoGet a nice preview on the TOS
February 6, 2018 at 2:23 am #227323
flanl3They did it the other way around on the American X DVD.
February 6, 2018 at 6:03 am #227324
Hamish> They did it the other way around on the American X DVD.
So I am not going mad…
February 6, 2018 at 7:55 am #227326
KatydidI _thought_ the show’s theme music sounded weirdly low pitched.
February 6, 2018 at 9:32 pm #227353
flanl3Everything feels just a mild bit dreadful at the slowed pace.
February 6, 2018 at 9:36 pm #227354
SoundableObject>Everything feels just a mild bit dreadful at the slowed pace.
If you are watching Dear Dave, it is supposed to be like that.
February 7, 2018 at 12:49 am #227363
flanl3As I also own X on Amazon and have watched clips from it online and on BritBox, I can entirely verify that it is much more dreadful at the slightly slower rate.
February 7, 2018 at 1:08 am #227364
GlenTokyoCan’t you just switch modes on your TV or something? Flat panel TVs made anytime in the last 10 years or so will almost certainly have 24/25/30/50/60Hz panels, because they do films and all regions the manufacturer ships too. A pal/NTSC option maybe?
February 7, 2018 at 2:11 am #227365
flanl3I don’t think my TV does that, and even if it did, it’s important to note that playing it on the original proper rate would also not be right, as the slowdown is minor because the correction was made but it wasn’t enough. It’s a slowdown that by the end adds maybe ten or twenty seconds at most, not six minutes.
February 7, 2018 at 4:08 am #227368
GlenTokyoWonder if you can play stuff back 0.7% faster on VLC media player… That might be the only way.
I think VLC will play any region actually so importing might also work.
Or a region free Blu-ray/DVD player if you don’t want to use a PC.
Who releases the US ones? Is it still Warner Brothers? Have they ever addressed it?
February 7, 2018 at 8:07 am #227370
Flap JackReminds me of how films run faster on UK DVDs than in the cinema, due to the difference in frame rate.
I only realised this a few years ago, and it’s like learning the Easter Bunny doesn’t exist.
February 7, 2018 at 8:27 am #227372
DarrellIt’s the main reason I got into Bluray.
Saying that, there are some US shows I literally cannot watch in their native format, only the PAL speedups are ‘right’ to me. The Simpsons is a big one.
February 7, 2018 at 10:56 am #227373
PFMC84I hope if they do include smeg-ups they release them unedited. It was a nice surprise to see an unedited copy (albeit shockingly bad picture quality wise) on YouTube where everyone’s effing and blinding and a lot of the smeg-ups we got on the VHS tapes were just trimmed a little to remove the F word or we had ‘shit’ beeped despite the tape being rated as a 15. Let us hear the swears! Release a proper 15 rated set!
February 7, 2018 at 4:42 pm #227381
Ben PaddonThe X Bluray is a little slower, which is fucking dreadful. XI was a little better but suffered from being reencoded in, I think, 1080p. I ended up re-purchasing the XI set from Amazon UK and giving my US set to a friend.
The BTE set used frame blending, which is a crime.
February 7, 2018 at 6:18 pm #227387
Hamish> I think VLC will play any region actually so importing might also work.
Using libdvdcss it will, yes.
It always amuses me when I see Windows users installing VLC with no idea how illegal using that particular library is, so much so that most Linux distributions refuse to package it and make their users have to fetch it independantly when installing VLC.
At least we know what we are getting in to.
February 7, 2018 at 7:36 pm #227396
Ben PaddonWeird, I don’t use libdvdcss and VLC has always, from default installation, played DVDs from multiple regions.
February 7, 2018 at 7:41 pm #227397
GlenTokyoMine too. Play region 1 regularly on my region 2 drive, I’ve not done anything other than install VLC
February 7, 2018 at 10:00 pm #227408
HamishThe libdvdcss library is included with the Windows installer of VLC by default. Because the project is based in France they feel immune to any legal repercussions.
That does not change the fact that the end user is still violating copyright and patent law by using it in their own countries depending on the jurisdiction. Especially for someone like myself living in Canada as the mere act of breaking a digital lock is specific crime here.
It’s insane, but there you go.
February 8, 2018 at 12:43 am #227419
Flap JackThe libdvdcss library is included with the Windows installer of VLC by default. Because the project is based in France they feel immune to any legal repercussions.
That does not change the fact that the end user is still violating copyright and patent law by using it in their own countries depending on the jurisdiction. Especially for someone like myself living in Canada as the mere act of breaking a digital lock is specific crime here.
So essentially, it is totally legal for VideoLAN to distribute it (even if it isn’t legal for Linux to distribute it), and some countries’ copyright laws are written broadly enough to make using it ambiguously legal in theory but in practice never challenge anyone.
Yeah, I think it’s pretty much OK really. Not nearly as amusing as the hype suggests!
February 9, 2018 at 5:14 am #227457
KatydidThe BTE set used frame blending, which is a crime.
I may be talking out of my ass, but wasn’t BtE back during first generation Blu-Rays, which were all interlaced because the first generation players weren’t powerful enough to do 1080 progressive?
February 9, 2018 at 7:27 am #227460
GlenTokyoBtE was 2009, Bluray players were widely available to the average person by 2007. I’ve got other blurays from 2007 that are 1080p too.
More likely that it’s 1080i because that’s what a lot of UK HD broadcasts used until pretty recently for whatever reason.
February 9, 2018 at 7:47 am #227461
DarrellUK HD broadcasts are 720i. 50 fields. UK TV masters are all either delivered 1080i or converted to 1080i. TV broadcasting doesn’t support progressive scan in the same way that CDs don’t support monoaural sound – it’s a one-size-fits-all delivery method regardless of source.
All the Dave RD Blurays are 1080i because that’s what the masters are. Also they have interlaced elements like the end credits and the dodgy camera shakes in Trojan.
February 9, 2018 at 9:17 am #227463
GlenTokyoWhat about Sattelite? Like Sky Q? Comes up as 1080p or 3840*2160 on my TV, assume at 50p for sports.
February 9, 2018 at 6:39 pm #227481
DarrellThat’s the actual picture output of the box. Transmissions are 720.
February 9, 2018 at 7:38 pm #227483
GlenTokyoI mean 1080p and UHD broadcast is possible, as Sky Q does it, original programming and sports are in 4K, but obviously over the air standard aerial TV doesn’t.
Maybe the next one will be in 4K, Doug likes his new technology, 4K HDR could be his next extravagance.
February 10, 2018 at 9:35 am #227489
DarrellThat’s platform-specific streaming though, like Netflix and Prime do, although admittedly Sky Q’s live stuff is pretty clever. But still, all the HD transmissions for the UK are sending 50i images 720 pixels tall regardless of source.
February 10, 2018 at 5:28 pm #227500
Ben SaundersSo our TVs just upscale to 1080?
February 10, 2018 at 8:26 pm #227514
GlenTokyoThe font of all knowledge that is a random tech website I just found seems to disagree. BBC is now 1080p 25 or 1080i 50, even on freeview at up to 17Mbps bitrate.
Other HD channels seem to be the same.
February 10, 2018 at 8:47 pm #227517
Ben SaundersI noticed iPlayer is 50fps now, I seriously doubt it’s 1080p though. Or just a shockingly low bit rate.
February 10, 2018 at 9:12 pm #227521
GlenTokyoThe website I was on says the average bitrate is 3mbps, so yeah, probably bitrate. I bet some of it is upscaled too. I doubt Antiques Road Trip and homes under the hammer are filmed full HD
February 10, 2018 at 9:24 pm #227524
DarrellThe receivers upscale to 1080. iPlayer is also capped at 720 btw.
And whatever website said that about 1080p and 25 is wrong.
February 10, 2018 at 9:36 pm #227526
GlenTokyoGot them from here. Can’t find anything else other than Wikipedia, which also says 1080
February 10, 2018 at 11:57 pm #227530
Ben SaundersMy Dad is watching The Orville right now as I make a Pot Noodle, and either Seth MacFarlane hit puberty backwards and drinks helium for lunch, they’re playing it too fast/high pitched. I don’t know what channel it’s on. But it’s really noticeable, that’s not his voice. Unless he’s doing it deliberately which would be bizarre.
February 11, 2018 at 9:49 am #227535
DarrellThat link is wrong because SD transmission on digital has never been full height PAL either. I think whoever’s putting that info online is/are making a lot of assumptions about delivery methods based on format standards.
February 11, 2018 at 1:51 pm #227542
neuroBBC have been broadcasting HD on Freeview and satellite at 1920×1080 since 2012. Most content is shot at 1080p also.
February 13, 2018 at 7:13 pm #227589
Ben PaddonMy Dad is watching The Orville right now as I make a Pot Noodle, and either Seth MacFarlane hit puberty backwards and drinks helium for lunch, they’re playing it too fast/high pitched. I don’t know what channel it’s on. But it’s really noticeable, that’s not his voice. Unless he’s doing it deliberately which would be bizarre.
I went from watching Battlestar Galactica on DVDs I’d borrowed from a friend to watching them on DVDs I bought while visiting family in the UK, and the NTSC-to-PAL conversion resulted in a very slight speedup that does in fact make certain people sound a little more chipmunky.
February 14, 2018 at 10:41 am #227614
PFMC84So they sound a bit “chipmunk-y” or like Paul Robeson on dope, depending on where in the world you are?
February 15, 2018 at 3:50 am #227696
KatydidIs there any good reason why we can’t just show things in their original framerate at this point? The whole speeding up and slowing down is ridiculous, and the fact that they don’t even lock the audio pitch is downright pathetic.
Besides, if you’re altering from 25 to 24 fps, wouldn’t it make far more sense to just chop out the extra frame instead of screwing around with the speed? The loss of a single frame per second is a negligible difference.
But again, why not just use the goddamn original video?
February 15, 2018 at 6:55 am #227700
Ben SaundersOutdated transmission methods, maybe? Bear in mind I have no idea what I’m talking about. But there must be a reason for it otherwise they wouldn’t do it, surely. Maybe actually editing the files and re-rendering them at the correct speed/pitch is just slightly too much effort
February 15, 2018 at 7:44 am #227701
DarrellI guarantee that if you ever saw the dropped frame example you give you’d change your mind – it’s nauseously unwatchable, and would not pass QC. There are only two options – respeeding or frame blending. Frame blending is still favoured for footage where the integrity of the source audio is prioritised – such as music releases and some film musicals.
PAL regions have quietly been NTSC compatible for a very long time, since the 90s at least, but NTSC regions have generally not extended the same courtesy in their TV specs. Certainly, Bluray has meant that commercial releases of anything in PAL regions are almost guaranteed to be true native, and bad standards conversion for disc releases is no longer our problem particularly.
As for the audio, the reason pitch correction is usually avoided is one of quality. Although timestretching and pitchshifting technology has massively improved over the years, it’s still wildly imperfect and imprecise, and when done to stereo and surround sources it often causes the channels to imperceptibly desynchronise and phase against each other, leaving sound that can resemble anything from a badly encoded MP3 to a psychedelic 1960s rock album. The processes work on estimation algorithms involving random factors – like an audio version of how artificial grain generation works on images – and you lose so much fidelity. Even someone not experienced in the field would notice it had gone ‘mushy’ sounding. This isn’t to say it’s never done for DVD/Bluray – it definitely is, but it sounds like absolute arse.
February 15, 2018 at 11:52 am #227710
DaveI was half-expecting an announcement on this today, to take advantage of the 30th anniversary publicity, but I haven’t seen anything yet. I hope we get something official soon.
February 15, 2018 at 1:37 pm #227714
DaveJust checked Amazon and I see it has updated with a price of £49.99. In which case £36 from Zoom feels like a pretty good deal.
February 15, 2018 at 1:39 pm #227715
DaveOh, and this tweet from Doug made me consider the possibilities of doing more than just a straightforward colour grade:
February 17, 2018 at 5:50 am #227823
KatydidActually I would love to see that, if for nothing else than the novelty.
February 17, 2018 at 6:09 am #227824
flanl3Right, because Series I needed to be grayer.
February 17, 2018 at 7:51 am #227827
Ben SaundersThe sets are already in black and white so Rimmer would just blend into the background half the time
February 18, 2018 at 10:15 pm #227918
KatydidI never said it was a good idea, I said it would be a fun novelty.
February 26, 2018 at 10:34 pm #228538
KatydidI guarantee that if you ever saw the dropped frame example you give you’d change your mind – it’s nauseously unwatchable, and would not pass QC.
You’ll never hear more pedantry about framerates than from me, but how in the world would dropping from 25 to 24 frames per second be unwatchable? I can see how maybe somebody in PAL region used to 25 fps would be able to tell the difference, but we’re talking about converting PAL to NTSC. Anyone in an NTSC region has been watching things in 24 fps their entire life and likely never even seen a program in 25 fps. Most shows are now produced at 24 fps, and even 29.97 fps shows are knocked down to 24 when streamed online. That’s the most common framerate for NTSC.
How is 24 fps worse than fucking around with the pitch, because you can definitely notice that without being a pedant like me?
February 26, 2018 at 11:09 pm #228542
bloodtellerso this has just popped up on amazon. blu-ray of 1-8 coming on October 1st i guess
February 26, 2018 at 11:29 pm #228543
flanl3Dropping/adding an actual frame and getting the small skip every second is what can be nauseating. Sort of like in Mario Kart 8 where a frame repeated itself every second and it was really distracing once you noticed it, except that was dropping 60 to 59 fps, not 25 to 24.
February 26, 2018 at 11:46 pm #228544
Ben SaundersIf it’s a duplicated frame it can be annoying but surely if it’s interpolated it would be fine
Idk though
I didn’t think NTSC viewers would be used to 24fps, I thought they watched stuff in 30/29.97
February 27, 2018 at 12:01 am #228548
Flap Jackso this has just popped up on amazon. blu-ray of 1-8 coming on October 1st i guess
Yeah, that Amazon listing has been there a while. Still weird to have a release date – even if it’s just a placeholder – before the thing has even been announced. Can’t say I’m leaping to pre-order a product that might not even exist!
February 27, 2018 at 12:05 am #228549
KatydidI didn’t think NTSC viewers would be used to 24fps, I thought they watched stuff in 30/29.97
Basically all scripted TV is in 24 fps now, including audience sitcoms.
February 27, 2018 at 12:29 am #228552
Ben Saunders>Can’t say I’m leaping to pre-order a product that might not even exist!
They don’t charge you until the thing actually ships so there would be no harm in pre-ordering it, I think>Basically all scripted TV is in 24 fps now, including audience sitcoms.
Cool.February 27, 2018 at 2:16 am #228557
KatydidI’d be lying if I said I didn’t permanently associate higher framerates with cheapness and sitcoms, since I was primarily exposed to it in my youth through low budget BBC shows and American sitcoms of the 1970s. To me, 24 is the “proper” framerate for scripted entertainment, and anything higher just feels wrong unless it’s on a traditional multi-camera sitcom.
And since the current Red Dwarf isn’t shot quite the same as a traditional multi-camera sitcom, sometimes looking closer to a single-camera drama production, a higher framerate would feel just as wrong to me as watching the multi-camera BBC series in 24 fps does.
I would aggressively contest the attitude I’ve heard from DwarfCasts that such a look somehow distances you from the comedy. I would personally find new Red Dwarf being shot just like the old series to make it look unacceptably cheap and old-fashioned, because really this is all informed by what you’re used to seeing in TV. I’ve always seen video taped BBC shows as having an incredibly cheap aesthetic to them, and so much of that comes from the video look and how overlit shows had to be for the cameras back then.
So as much argument as I hear for the video look being “more real” and making you feel more like you’re there than the film look, I feel _exactly_ opposite. The video look just screams “YOU ARE WATCHING A CHEAP SITCOM” to me.
Reality is subjective, life is a hologram, we’re all gonna die alone, etc., etc.
February 27, 2018 at 2:22 am #228558
KatydidThat’s not to say I don’t think Red Dwarf V and VI look fucking incredible, but they’d look a lot more incredible visually if they were shot single camera on film. I’m not saying that would be better for the show, but it would certainly look more expensive.
February 27, 2018 at 12:59 pm #228583
performingmonkeyAll this confusion about framerates is the reason it’s fucked up so very often on DVD/Blu-ray releases. One of, if not the first BBC Blu-ray releases was of ‘Planet Earth’ and it played back at 24fps, thus resulting in that 4% slowdown.
Budget is a major reason for this happening, as they will often produce one master for all markets. If they REALLY wanted to, they could make it all work. The same goes for 5.1 surround mixes as well, but that’s another story…….
February 27, 2018 at 5:22 pm #228593
RamesesNiblickTheThirdRather have audio commentaries for series 10-12 then this to be honest.
February 27, 2018 at 8:23 pm #228598
KatydidI just want Doug commentaries.
February 27, 2018 at 8:33 pm #228600
Flap JackThey don’t charge you until the thing actually ships so there would be no harm in pre-ordering it, I think
It’s not so much that I’m worried about not being able to cancel, it just feels weird to pledge to buy something we know so little about. Plus, the pre-order price is unlikely to rise, so there doesn’t seem to be much advantage to being so prepared.
February 27, 2018 at 8:54 pm #228601
SoundableObject>Budget is a major reason for this happening, as they will often produce one master for all markets. If they REALLY wanted to, they could make it all work. The same goes for 5.1 surround mixes as well, but that’s another story…….
It sounds like that won’t happen next time. Over on another forum when talking about the possible upcoming Classic Doctor Who Blu-Ray season sets a member of the Restoration Team has stated that there would be separate 50i and 60i releases, depending on territory.
I think with Doug Naylor ensuring the quality of the release before signing off on them, we hopefully won’t get a screw up like that.
February 27, 2018 at 9:39 pm #228602
bloodtellerwhy are they releasing it all on Blu-Ray anyway? what’s the market for that?
dunno about anyone else but i certainly wouldn’t pay to see I-VIII in slightly higher quality, but maybe thats just me.
February 27, 2018 at 10:15 pm #228606
Ben SaundersOnce again I find myself in wholehearted agreement with Katydid, RE: frame rates.
>I think with Doug Naylor ensuring the quality of the release before signing off on them, we hopefully won’t get a screw up like that.
The man behind Red Dwarf: Remastered and Timewave?!February 28, 2018 at 7:00 am #228625
Davewhy are they releasing it all on Blu-Ray anyway? what’s the market for that?
Presumably it has been a very strong seller on DVD in all its various forms over the years, and this is the logical next variation.
February 28, 2018 at 8:08 am #228629
Ben PaddonAccording to tweets from Doug yonks ago, there is apparently demand for it in Japan.
February 28, 2018 at 11:32 am #228633
NoFro> That’s not to say I don’t think Red Dwarf V and VI look fucking incredible, but they’d look a lot more incredible visually if they were shot single camera on film. I’m not saying that would be better for the show, but it would certainly look more expensive.
They would certainly look better. A lot of old shows have looked amazing on their Blu Ray releases because they were shot on film. I wish Dwarf could look as good, especially as most of the episodes look great from a sets/costumes/lighting standpoint, but the source just can’t provide that.
I can’t believe that even a decade ago the BBC were shooting scripted, highly popular shows that weren’t future-proofed for HD (see: Doctor Who, The Mighty Boosh).
February 28, 2018 at 1:26 pm #228639
Ben SaundersI would have sworn the Mighty Boosh was Channel 4. Lots of early digital films like the Star Wars prequels were shot at 1080p, and that’s it. They are forever locked at that resolution. And I read somewhere (maybe on here lmao) that I think 28 Days Later was genuinely shot at 480p, and that’s as high as it will ever be. Now 1080p I can understand given that they basically invented digital cameras -for- Attack of the Clones, but 480p?! What were they thinking.
Even The Phantom Menace, which was shot on film for the most part except for one scene, probably will remain at 1080p because of that one scene. Lucas elected to use the scene where Qui Gon tests Anakin’s blood as a testing ground for his new digital camera, to see if anybody would notice that it switched from film to digital, and I don’t think many people did, and so the digital age began.
Then you have Tommy Wiseau who shot The Room -simultaneously- on digital AND film because he didn’t understand the difference, and had to have a custom camera enclosure made to hold both cameras side by side iirc. I don’t know if the final movie is presented fully one or the other or a mix, though.
February 28, 2018 at 2:06 pm #228644
DaveThe low-res filming of 28 Days Later was a deliberate stylistic choice that I thought worked quite well.
February 28, 2018 at 2:18 pm #228645
Ben SaundersIt’s going to be a blast revisiting that film on the 8k televisions of the not too distant future.
Mind you if Red Dwarf is anything to go by we’ll all have gone back to CRTs by that point, anyway.
February 28, 2018 at 4:10 pm #228651
MANI506I wonder if the proposed blu-ray would feature re-shot vis-fx for VII which Doug has said would be fun to do.
March 1, 2018 at 12:33 am #228681
Mr-Stabby>And I read somewhere (maybe on here lmao) that I think 28 Days Later was genuinely shot at 480p, and that’s as high as it will ever be. Now 1080p I can understand given that they basically invented digital cameras -for- Attack of the Clones, but 480p?! What were they thinking.
Watch the film. They film on a completely empty Westminster Bridge and City of London. They had literally minutes between the sun coming up and the city getting swamped. Rather than waste time setting up film cameras, they shot with a bank of Canon XL1 MiniDV video cameras, all filming at once, because they took literally moments to setup. The footage speaks for itself. No CGI, no fancy production tricks. REAL London looks deserted. I think that was worth using the slightly cheaper cameras. It looks amazing. And stylistically i think it works too.
March 1, 2018 at 12:45 am #228682
Ben SaundersSo it’s The Dalek Invasion of Earth but with zombies?
March 1, 2018 at 11:30 am #228692
quinn_drummerDoug has just tweeted this
https://twitter.com/DougRDNaylor/status/969172179014291456
“In the Blu-Ray suite working on Red Dwarf III. It’s looking nice. The Up-Rez is nice, the noise reduction is nice, the grade is nice. It just looks nice period. #RedDwarf30#October”
So looks like we’ll get getting something in October!!
March 1, 2018 at 11:50 am #228693
siOctober, eh? Hmm. If only there was some kind of Red Dwarf fan event around then..
March 1, 2018 at 11:59 am #228694
DaveGreat to hear. Looking forward to seeing how it looks.
March 1, 2018 at 1:03 pm #228705
Dax101Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
March 1, 2018 at 1:20 pm #228706
NoFroIII probably has the most room for improvement. Well, maybe there’s no room for improvement but it certainly looks the worst.
March 1, 2018 at 1:26 pm #228709
Dax101I wonder will dave be showing the Blu-ray quality shows after its released.
If you are gonna put money into it you may aswell make the most of it.
March 1, 2018 at 1:54 pm #228711
Ben SaundersJust went on Google images for some screencaps of Marooned and oh boy does that cockpit scene look horrible.
March 1, 2018 at 2:09 pm #228712
Pete Part ThreeThey’re taking the opportunity to remove Hattie altogether and replace her with newly filmed footage of Norm. This is perhaps more troublesome for Parallel Universe, though.
March 1, 2018 at 2:46 pm #228713
bloodteller>Just went on Google images for some screencaps of Marooned and oh boy does that cockpit scene look horrible.
i wonder if they’ll change that in some way for the blu-ray? it looks incredibly dodgy in SD so it’ll no doubt look even dodgier in HD.
if i recall correctly Remastered tried fixing the cockpit scene but they somehow made it look even worse
March 1, 2018 at 2:50 pm #228714
DaveI would hope that they would ‘fix’ as little as possible. The effects techniques, whether good or bad, are part of what the show is.
March 1, 2018 at 6:02 pm #228716
Dax101I wouldn’t mind a hint of remastering just to smooth over some of the effects rather than replace them.
March 1, 2018 at 6:33 pm #228717
DaveSlippery slope, though.
March 1, 2018 at 8:41 pm #228725
International DebrisI wouldn’t mind an actual remaster, in terms of polishing up the final product. What we had in 1997 was a remix, really, going back to the source and changing individual ingredients.
March 7, 2018 at 2:43 pm #229076
DaveAlso posted in the news thread, this seems relevant:
March 7, 2018 at 10:28 pm #229106
cwickhamThe fact that they’re bothering to put new extras on these is quite encouraging. The Tom Baker Years and the Genesis of the Daleks omnibus edit will be nice to have for archival purposes – shades of The Bodysnatcher Collection including all the stuff they missed off the series releases.
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