Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum The Doctor Who Spoilers Thread – Part II

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  • #81586

    > hope Jack gets raped by Sontarans

    I’m not sure it’d be rape

    #81587
    Michael Warren
    Participant

    You never know, Seb – if the finale is 60 minutes long, like I’ve heard it being bandied about (since this one and next week’s are 50 minutes long, it wouldn’t surprise me), they might just extend the title sequence to fit everyone in…

    Really liked this episode. Don’t care what anyone else thinks.

    Oh, and Adipose figures are coming!

    #81588
    Andrew
    Participant

    “Oh cheers, Jack – you got it right in my probic vent.”

    #81589
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I liked this episode a lot. Much better than last weeks (*ducks cos I know most you liked last weeks*)

    I think they really should have come up with something better and more alien than a beetle mind, despite what the affects man on Confidential said. And I don’t quite understand why, if it is a time eater, it would remain on Donna’s back after she went back and took a different route. Didn’t the fact that time had changed mean it had had it’s meal? Or is existing in that alternate timeline all part of a continuous ‘temporal devouring’ process?

    However, I like the whole different route story. It’s been done plenty of times before, but I think it’s interesting nonetheless. Besides it raised extra question for the next episode, and questions are always interesting. And I liked treading old ground from a different perspective.

    Overall a good thoughtful episode I thought. Oh and from what I’ve seen of this episode Billie’s acting has improved a lot. (I never disliked Rose mind but I didn’t think her acting was that great in the earlier shows.) She’s become quite an interesting character now.

    Can’t help wondering if she whispered ‘Bad Wolf’ to the wrong version of Donna mind, since she is dying… but I guess the beetle connection retains the link and memories etc… Something like that.

    Very much looking forward to next week.

    #81590
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I liked this episode a lot. Much better than last weeks (*ducks cos I know most you liked last weeks*)

    [speechless, throws stuff regardless of ducking]

    Surely the whole thing about creatures devouring time has already been done? Oh yes, and in a far better episode.

    Sadly, this outing has completely tempered my anticipation of the final story. I’m baffled that some people have labelled Midnight as “filler”, when this whole 45 minutes was just padding surrounding five minutes of content (the last five).

    What did we learn? What happened?

    The answers are: “Not much” and “Not much”.

    #81591
    ChrisM
    Participant

    [speechless, throws stuff regardless of ducking]

    *THUNK! Smegging ricochet rounds…*

    Despite liking the episode, I do agree with you here:

    Surely the whole thing about creatures devouring time has already been done? Oh yes, and in a far better episode.

    Blink was a great episode, and the time eating aliens were used better. I didn’t really buy the time guzzling beetle stuff in this episode much. It was utilized mainly as a set up though, but it could have been done better.

    Blink and this were whole different story-lines though (although granted sharing some similar themes) so I think they both work. And yes, I prefer Blink if I had to choose (but it’s all good.)

    I?m baffled that some people have labelled Midnight as ?filler?,

    Believe it or not, despite enjoying Midnight much less than other episodes in this series (I don’t actually hate it.) I agree with you that it shouldn’t be regarded as filler. I found the story boring and the screaming people and speech repetition irritating, but the story was well constructed and it had great ideas for all that. It just wasn’t my cup of tea, that’s all.

    >What did we learn? What happened?

    That Donna has an extremely pivotal role in the Doctor’s life and thus the world (ok, that’s not exactly a new thing for companions in new Who, but bringing home HOW is still interesting. I didn’t think the Doctor would necessarily have died if Donna wasn’t there with him when he flooded the spiders for example.) And of course confirmation of the little rumors running through this series arc. Sure, as far as the main arc is concerned, this is more a set up than anything, but the whole point of this story was, it was about Donna and the choices she takes. And whats more, she is willing to lay down her life if needed. Foreshadowing perhaps, considering the way that lady in the library reacted to her?

    I also thought Tate carried it well. Even with the bellowing. ;)

    Also, one thing that made me chuckle, did you notice Donna’s position when she returned to the past? Gingerminator anyone?

    Sorry awful joke.

    #81592
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >That Donna has an extremely pivotal role in the Doctor?s life and thus the world

    Unfortunately, all of the bad stuff happened as a consequence of one event: The Doctor died due to Donna no longer being involved in the events of The Runaway Bride.

    Which would be fine but this show has a get out clause for death. Oh, but I’m forgetting, the Doctor didn’t regenerate because it was sudPLOT CONTRIVANCE. Since the whole show had to rest on this creaky premise, it was never going to work.

    (The irony is I’ve just described someone NOT magically coming back to life as plot contrivance)

    Oh, and TNG episode Tapestry. Another what-if episode that is much better than this.

    #81593
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Which would be fine but this show has a get out clause for death. Oh, but I?m forgetting, the Doctor didn?t regenerate because it was sudPLOT CONTRIVANCE

    Yes, because the concept of regeneration being something that you have to mentally trigger, and therefore something that it’s possible to interrupt, prevent or flat out refuse to do has never been established, has it?

    #81594
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I mean, sorry, but – the Doctor HAS to be able to die. He’s not Superman. You can’t just say that “every time he dies, he regenerates”, because then there’s NO FUCKING PERIL whatsoever.

    Death – final, proper death – is always a threat in the Doctor’s world. He’s just a bit hardier than most.

    #81595
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Fair enough. It was still rubbish, though.

    #81596
    Andrew
    Participant

    > Death – final, proper death – is always a threat in the Doctor?s world. He?s just a bit hardier than most.

    I get why this is a dramatic flaw – it really, really is. But when the character and his rules were always made up as the show went along, it’s not easy to argue anything as definitive.

    It’s hard to debate the canonicity of regeneration lore when you have Romana picking and choosing a body, and spin-off media coming up with their own rules. The New Master may have chosen to pack in his change – the only canon that seriously matters on the RTD show – but that’s a decision NOT to change, rather than TO do it. And why would our hero decide to give up while drowning?

    Once regeneration’s established, it only feels like a handful of times when genuine threat-of-death was was relevant beyond the first Doctor. The real crisis tends to be preventing bigger things – something a short-term death for the Doctor would still cause problems with, but prior to New Who I don’t remember a lot of audience-felt threat to his life specifically.

    As to this ep – yep, that clip blew what little surprise the episode held. Dammit.

    #81597
    Somebody
    Participant

    > (joking aside, I genuinely think the opening titles will feature those names, in that order, up to and including Barrowman. Because all those people have had their names in it before, and that seems to be the ?rule?. Sladen hasn?t, so she won?t this time.)

    I’m expecting Sladen to be in it – she headlines a spin-off, like Barrowman, so she’ll be in the titles. I doubt the other Torchwood lot will though, nor Jackie or Mickey.

    My prediction for the opening credits/order is:

    DAVID TENNANT
    CATHERINE TATE
    with FREEMA AGYEMAN
    JOHN BARROWMAN
    ELISABETH SLADEN
    and BILLIE PIPER

    > Which would be fine but this show has a get out clause for death. Oh, but I?m forgetting, the Doctor didn?t regenerate because it was sudPLOT CONTRIVANCE. Since the whole show had to rest on this creaky premise, it was never going to work.

    1) How do we know he didn’t regenerate? We never saw his face – and if he regenerates UNDERWATER, he’s going to burn through regenerations at a rate unseen since The Curse of Fatal Death. Was the guy who claimed “too fast to regenerate” familiar with him?
    2) Either way, the point was that he was both homicidal *and* suicidal in that scene from TRB. Again, who’s to say he wouldn’t have let it go (I think whoever claimed you *have* to trigger a regen has it backwards though – they can HOLD BACK regens until it’s too late, but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen automagically – otherwise, how did the unconscious 3 regenerate into 4, 6 regenerate into 7, or (the kicker) 7 into 8)?
    3) All the Time Lords (Except the Doctor himself) who got shot on the old show stayed down…

    #81598
    pfm
    Participant

    > Oh, but I?m forgetting, the Doctor didn?t regenerate because it was sudPLOT CONTRIVANCE. Since the whole show had to rest on this creaky premise, it was never going to work.

    Well going off that the WHOLE SHOW rests on that ‘creaky premise’. He isn’t immune. Any situation where he would be instantly killed then that would be IT. But you already know this, you’re just being a dick for the sake of it.

    > Oh, and TNG episode Tapestry. Another what-if episode that is much better than this.

    Just feck off.

    #81599
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    Its the next day, and already THIS appears:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/videos/?episode=s4_11&action=iplayer&pid=b00c7ytx&title=Turn%20Left&summary=As%20Donna’s%20world%20collapses,%20she%20finds%20help%20from%20a%20mysterious%20blonde%20woman%20-%20but%20can%20Donna%20and%20Rose%20stop%20the%20approaching%20Darkness?

    (If taken to Episode, look for new 10 sec Dalek Trailer)

    One thing Im really pleased about, is the marketing of Series 4. Its very VERY well done.

    Last nights episode was great, I agree with the comments above about the Doctor being able to die. Otherwise where’s the threat every week???

    #81600
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > you?re just being a dick for the sake of it.

    EVERYONE, it’s isn’t ‘monkey that’s acting like a dick, here. No. Not at all.

    #81601
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Oh, incase anyone was wondering, the Radio Times listsings seem to confirm the following:

    The Stolen Earth – 50 Minutes
    Journey’s End – 1 Hour

    That should give all those characters a bit of breathing space, at least!

    #81602
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >But you already know this, you?re just being a dick for the sake of it.

    And I guess I’m being a splendid guy for the sake of it when I say I loved an episode? (Like I did with Silence in the Library or Midnight)

    #81603
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Oh, incase anyone was wondering, the Radio Times listsings seem to confirm the following:

    The Stolen Earth – 50 Minutes
    Journey?s End – 1 Hour

    That should give all those characters a bit of breathing space, at least!

    So, a seven-parter in old series terms!

    #81604
    Somebody
    Participant

    Four and a half, surely? Turn Left was more Fear Her – a mostly unrelated episode with heavy hints at Something Bad in the last thirty seconds – than Utopia.

    #81605
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I think people are judging Turn Left too much on what it brings to the series arc as a whole rather than as a stand alone story. I judge it primarily as being a Donna episode, showing her relevance to Doctor who and his world, and indeed how the lack of the Doctor would have affected her.

    A little addendum to what I’ve said before:
    I thought it interesting that this version of Donna was more selfish than the one we know too. But there are the seeds of something better, and she is still willing to be selfless when it really counts, as demonstrated by her fate in the end.

    Crikey, I’m waxing all serious like.

    (That last sentence should not be taken seriously. Waxing is a most painful endeavor, an activity I would prefer to avoid.)

    #81606
    Michael Warren
    Participant
    #81607
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    OH HOLY GOD HIS VOICE IS PERFECT.

    Seriously. Either they’ve found some way to distort it to sound like Wisher, or… he’s doing a brilliant, brilliant impression.

    The only thing is that he doesn’t say “DOC-TORRRRR”, a la Molloy, but you can’t have everything ;-)

    #81608
    pfm
    Participant

    This clip shows why they chose him for the role.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TOVSp-fYUQc

    #81609
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I think people are judging Turn Left too much on what it brings to the series arc as a whole rather than as a stand alone story.

    I think you’re wrong. The reason some people are focussing on the arc is because of how little the stand alone aspects of the ep succeed. For a story that was supposed to show Donna’s Great Importance, what it actually showed was how dead we’d be without the Doctor. She saved his life once – so have loads of companions (and guest characters), so much as his life CAN be saved – and that’s really not enough to grant her this mythic status.

    As a stand-alone story, it needed to show Donna’s constant importance, rather than the Doctor’s. It succeeded in some other areas – arc teasing, Wilf in general – but for me the main spine was seriously misconceived.

    #81610
    John Hoare
    Participant
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